Airplane. INTEL Podcast Episode 80 This week, we dive deep into law books and maintenance records with the returning guest and logbook expert Larry Hein. Ball Log books are extremely important. In fact, the aircraft's logbooks are the second most important down set the aircraft has. Besides thing airplane itself, we'll discuss everything you need to know as an aircraft owner, operator or prospective buyer about long books, how to improve them and how to avoid common mistakes that can cost you thousands of dollars. So stay tuned. Are you an aircraft owner, pilot or mechanic? Do you want to learn how to increase safety, reduce risk and save money with your airplane thin? You are in the right place. Thistles. The Airplane Intel Podcast The only show that tells you how to make aircraft ownership. Simple, safe and cost effective. Featuring the pre bye guys and brought to you by co flight dot com. We bring over 100

years combined experience flying, maintaining and managing all types of aircraft. If you're ready to make smarter decisions and get more out of your airplane, stay tuned. Hello, welcome to another edition of the airplane Intel podcast or in aviation podcasts about the ins and outs of airplane ownership. I'm Adam. I'm a certificate of flight instructor, airframe and powerplant mechanic with inspection authorization and the president of Airplane Intel. If you're a longtime listener, welcome back. And if you're new to the show, welcome aboard On the podcast, we compare airplanes, interview airplane owners and industry experts and, of course, give you real world tips for buying, maintaining and selling an airplane to join the conversation. Seymour Resource is or catch up on our episode archives head on over to our show Notes page at Airplane. Intel podcast dot com Well, it's that time of year again, we're wishing you a very happy and healthy Thanksgiving. As crazy as this year has been, it's starting to

come to a close, so I hope you are able to get some much deserved rest in spend time with family, friends and loved ones. This Thanksgiving, Sarah and I will be heading down to the Orlando area to spend some time with family and enjoy some good food and much needed time off. Now, today's episode is brought to you by our friends at co flight dot com, an innovative mobile and desktop app that makes managing your airplane easy, fun and dare I say affordable. You can manage virtually everything about your airplane so you won't miss a thing from maintenance and a DS to scheduling and payments. You can get a free 60 day trial of co flight by heading over to co flight dot com and entering the coupon code pre by at check Out that's co flight dot com Charlie Oscar Foxtrot Lima Yankee tango dot com and entering the code pre by at check out. Now, Speaking of co flight since our last podcast episode, I was invited to co flight headquarters in beautiful Pensacola, Florida, to meet the co flight team. Tal and Pace were awesome hosts, and I got to say, I'm very impressed

with their operation. While there, I got to see some very cool features recently added to co flight and a ton of amazing ideas that they're putting together for you guys. I was also able to check out, tells Beech Baron, which we talked about in detail back in Episode 77. So be sure to check that out in case you missed it. I also made a new friend while in Pensacola. Mr. Roy Kinsey, right, is the proud owner of several aircraft, including a Boeing Stearman talent. I recorded a podcast episode Roy to talk about his EMU to Steelman and System 1 40 that he owns, as well as a really neat project that he's part of called Veterans Flight. So be sure to check out that interview, which will air at the end of December. Now, before we dive into today's interview, let's catch up as it's been quite exciting here in Airplane Intel headquarters in Ocala, Florida First, the website overhaul is almost complete, where we'll have a brand new layout, added products and services for airplane buyers and owners in a ton of free resources, including free downloads and videos. Now, since our last podcast episode, we've been doing a lot of traveling as well. Alabama, Arkansas, Oregon, South Carolina, in several

cities in Florida to do pre buys, owner support and maintenance on a wide variety of aircraft, including several Cessna 206 is a Piper Seneca. Several Mooney's a serious s r 22 Pilatus PC 12 in a Cessna citation. So never a dull moment here, which is the way we like it. You could learn more about what we do and how we can help you by going over to airplane intel dot com Now in today's episode, we'll catch up with aircraft logbook expert Larry Hein ball to talk about why you should care about your aircraft's logbooks, how to improve them, how to avoid common mistakes and how to ensure all the appropriate information. Is there because Guess what, guys? As the aircraft's owner or operator, you're responsible for proving the airworthiness of your aircraft, and the only way to do that is through your aircraft's logbooks. All maintenance inspection and even preventative maintenance events must be recorded in the log books within approval for return service for the aircraft to be deemed airworthy again. Now, remember, if it's not documented, it simply did not happen. Not to mention 30% of your aircraft value lives in the law books, making them almost as valuable

as the aircraft itself. Now this is true whether we're talking about a Cessna 1 52 a king here, a Gulfstream G 6 50 or Boeing 7 37. Now I realized that talking about law books isn't as fun essay making a cross country flight or getting $100 hamburger. But don't worry, Larry and I will do our best to keep the discussion interesting, entertaining and enjoyable, as well as relevant to your experience as an owner or operator. So without further ado, let's dive right into it. Today we're speaking with returning guest Larry Hind Ball. You may remember Larry from Episode 72 where we talked about the importance and benefits of digitizing aircraft maintenance records. Larry is one of the top law book experts in the country and pioneer of improving and digitizing law books and maintenance records. Larry, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you. Now, for those of you that may be meeting you for the first time, tell us a little

more about yourself and your career in aviation. Sure, Growing up, my father worked for American Airlines, so being around airplanes and airport operations was just part of my life. After high school, I attended North Institute in Los Angeles to get my aim p license, and at that point my goal was to go to work for major airlines. Not too much out of the box thinking there. I guess it was 1976 and the airlines just weren't hiring. So I started working down in Orange County Airport in California on leers and citations at a little fledgling FBO out of school in 1981 I went back and finished my bachelor's degree, and because of the several years of aircraft maintenance experience I had at that point, I landed a job out of college with Gulfstream Aerospace is a field service rep. 1995. I decided I'd start my own business is the maintenance consultant. And even though I found myself operating several different aircraft models as a director of maintenance, my first love was and always has been managing the outfit process of a new aircraft as customer rap. But

when not managing new airplane completions, like almost all independent maintenance people, I found myself doing logbook audits and researching things like pre purchase inspections, adding aircraft to 1 35 certificates and just ensuring airworthiness compliance before an aircraft went up for sale. And it's really this experience of researching so maney aircraft logbooks and the different ways of doing them both right and wrong. That led me to eventually start the business aircraft records non profit company, and our mission is to just promote better record keeping in our industry. Sounds like you've got a lot of experience and I know you dio and something that we do a lot of, of course, or pre purchase inspections. And the biggest thing there, I think at least on the front end of that is the law book. So what's all this fuss about law books, anyways? I mean, why should aircraft owners, operators and even buyers care about law books and maintenance records? Great question. Well, log books are extremely important. In fact, the aircraft's logbooks are the second most important, and set the aircraft

has besides thing airplane itself, without the proper documentation to show the aircraft as airworthy, then it's not. And if it's not airworthy, airplane can't fly. Of course, an airplane that can't fly is almost useless. That is very true, and a lot of owners and operators really don't probably even see their law books that often a lot of times there in the maintenance shop or what their mechanic and what have you but ultimately who is responsible for maintaining an aircraft's logbooks and maintaining the records to ensure they are complete and accurate. Great question. And it's a nisi one to answer. According to far 91.417 it is the aircraft owner or the operator's responsibility to make sure that the aircraft records are complete and that the aircraft as airworthy, right down to ensuring that maintenance personnel make the proper entry into the log books for the work they accomplished on the airplane. But when you think about that, that's a heavy responsibility toe have for an owner or even an operator

. So mostly this mandate is delegated the maintenance and everyone just hopes and keep your fingers crossed. That the maintenance department has done things properly in the airplane is good to go. Yeah, and it's something I think a lot of owners and operators kind of take for granted that maybe they don't think about it. It doesn't keep him up at night, most likely, even though it's one of the most basic, most important items that a owner can do, and it's a great way for them to kind of keep track of what's going on with the airplane now, an interesting fact. A lot of people don't think about is that any time maintenance is performed on an airplane, it automatically becomes on airworthy until it has returned to service with an improved signature in law book entry, even if it's just a panel being opened up or an oil change, the airplane is on airworthy and the airworthiness certificate is avoided without a logbook entry. So that goes, not just with the logbooks itself, but anytime maintenance is done. Tell us a little bit about how the law books tie in with the requirement for a owner to maintain airworthiness. Yeah, that is right. A lot of books purposes

. To prove that the aircraft has had everything accomplished, it needs to have to be considered airworthy. You know, even a simple, as you say, like removing an access panel, are doing a small amount of maintenance. So the return to service is very important in a log book. That's the proof that the airplane isas faras maintenance is concerned ready to fly as an airworthy airplane. Yeah, that's something a lot of people don't give a lot of thought to. So anytime there's undocumented maintenance, done the airplane. It's illegal, of course, and also makes the airplane on air, where the automatically now get into some basics here what information is required to be in a logbook entry? What needs to be in the logic seems to be an extremely murky subject in the real world. I think that's because the Fars air so detailed in what needs to be included in the aircraft record and even in the logbook entry itself, that we literally get lost trying to see the forest for the trees. The bulk of information is delineated in 4 91 417

It's very confusing, so much so that the FAA actually issued an advisory circular, which is, Ah, number 43.9 c to try and help shed some light on the subject. But unfortunately, the advisory circular is almost as confusing as the f a r. Add to that the fact that what is important to know about other critical areas of the aircraft when the altimeters or certified, or the aircraft wade, or when any number of important items or addressed it's usually recorded in the log book. So all of this adds up to a tremendous amount of information over the course of a lifetime of the airplane, and it's really hard to keep organized without any official guidelines to instruct us with each different aircraft operation. They have their own way of keeping logbook information, and so log books are as different as each operation. And sometimes the information is displayed differently even in the same logbook, because the aircraft has changed hands multiple times. Yeah, that's true. So I'm gonna put the f a r larry that you referenced the 91 417 and

advisory circular into the show notes, but something I want to just kind of press upon real quick is three importance of a signature because that signature is the return to service. Now there's some kind of characteristics or idiosyncrasies within that signature that are important. Larry, could you just kind of describe some of the challenges that we face with why the signature is important and how that becomes the return to service for the airplane and that it needs to be kind of made by an appropriately rated person? Not just anyone can make a law book injury and sign it off for return to service. Sure, and actually, it has everything to do with why We're really kind of stuck in the paper world of logbooks today, Part 43.9, which is your regular maintenance and non routine maintenance on an airplane and 43.11 which is the inspections. Both require a signature on the logbook entry to return the airplane to service. And that signature has to be not only a person authorized to sign that document, but also the authorization that he has either a name, he mechanics

license or a repair station license. In the case of a repair station license, it is a far 1 45 repair station, which means it has submitted its procedures to the FAA for approval. And so signatures are approved from the FAA. At that point, then it's assumed, unfortunately, but it is an assumption that the signature is with an ink pen, and so the 1 45 are not going to go further than that and risk jeopardizing the return to service by signing digitally. So unfortunately, even though the document may be typed up in a word document, it's going to be printed so that it could be signed with an ink pin and then put into a paper logbook. And that's why in the 21st century, we're still using paper in aviation. It's quite the paradigm they're that we're trying to overcome. Of course, there's some ways we can do that as well. We'll talk about that in a minute. But going back to some basics. You know, you have a lot of experience auditing aircraft maintenance records, as do we, and you see it a lot. I'm sure as well, with business aircraft records kind

of some of the issues you run across with logbook entries themselves in terms of what they say the content of the logbook entry can you just kind of briefly describe what a logbook entry should say? Well, first off, it's important to be familiar with requirements of what is and what is not required to be in a logbook. It's pretty clear and simple, but unfortunately, many operators feel like they just need to include everything. Then somewhere and all that mess will be the important stuff. But that's a lot like saying that you remodeled your house when that's what you did. You pull out all of their seats for all the stuff you bought, like sinks countertops, cabinets, etcetera, and then expect someone that knows enough about remodeling houses to be able to figure out exactly what you did. For this very reason, most aircraft buyers and sellers will hire an expert like yourself and who will take the time and is, of course, familiar with picking out the important stuff would say, the wheat from the shaft for the aircraft's history

to go through the logbook and determine if everything is there to prove its airworthiness. This is when we find out that something critical is missing and the FAA makes it clear if it's not documented in the logbook, it didn't happen. And this is in spite of, you know, what maintenance tracking system says, Or an aircraft phone, or even the maintenance people that did the work. If it's not in the logbook, it just didn't happen, period. That's why I often say that an aircraft logbook is really the one and only true source of information on an aircraft. It has to be complete in order to prove the airplanes airworthiness. Yeah, absolutely. It's kind of a balancing act between being minimal with what said versus being excessive. There's some kind of uh, you know, sweet spot in there where you have the ideal amount of information. Like something we see. A lot is installed, overhauled engine. That's it, you know, and like, Well, obviously that's not nearly the requirements, all the logbook entry, So that would be a discrepancy. But then, like you're saying with your analogy with remodeling your kitchen

, which is an excellent analogy, sometimes it's just tells you every little detail, and you don't necessarily need that either, Or you have all these supporting documents, like with receipts or, in our case, like a work order or invoice or something that kind of outline some of the other stuff along with all those 81 thirties. And that doesn't help put the pieces together, either. And it creates an awful amount of work for whoever is auditing those records or if you're trying to show the airplane to a prospective buyer Now, the information in a log book entries important, obviously. But sometimes it's not on Lee what a law book says. It's what it doesn't say that could be eye opening. For example, missing entries for a D compliance or UN complied with maintenance tasks following an overhaul or a variety of other things. How can owners really try to read between the lines? By far the most prevalent item we find is missing data, Um, not so much in the maintenance that was performed on the aircraft, but in the other items involved in the aircraft maintenance like the 337 or the 81 thirties. Or, like you mentioned the list

of current A. D compliance, these type of things. Unfortunately, sometimes we'll also see improper sign us because a person signing for the work accomplished is not the same person that did the work. And there's a communication breakdown that resulted in incorrect or an improper logbook entry, sometimes even improper return to service. Finally, no references for the work that was performed is another item we see often far 43.9 states that in the information in the maintenance record, there must include a description for emphasis or reference. Data and pregnancies are the work performed. Kind of sounds like a single statement, but there are actually two key parts to that statement. There's the description of the work and the reference data maintenance will often say, in nondescript terms you know what they did like your example of change the engine, but they don't always say where they got the information that from to justify what they did. But it's this justification

that's extremely important to approve the maintenance was done properly and that the aircraft is indeed airworthy. So, like I pointed out in my book Common Logbook Mistakes, which is available on the website Business Aircraft Records Yorg, a maintenance century needs to be able to explain to someone that wasn't familiar with the work accomplished on the airplane, just how and what was done. Most maintenance people see this is just the paperwork effort that is unfortunately necessary, even to the point that it sometimes feel like it's just a make work effort. They fixed the plane, which is what they set out to Dio, and usually the last thing they're interested in doing at that point is writing what feels like a novel sometimes or the work they just did to the airplane. But the reality is more often than not, the maintenance century doesn't even have enough detail to explain what all was done to the aircraft. Like your example of changed engine for someone coming along afterward that needs to understand this information either for troubleshooting

purposes or, God forbid, an accident investigation. Lack of information becomes critical. Not only does it mean extra time and money spent resolving a problem that we should have known a whole lot more about to begin with, but the lack of evidence supporting the mechanics treatment of the aircraft could turn on him. And this is really important for them to know if the NTSB comes to make an investigation, it's human nature to assume the worst that the rial information is not there to show otherwise. And the mechanic that's held accountable. Yes, that's a great point. I'm glad you brought that up because of the mechanics. Take on an enormous amount of responsibility when they're signing off any maintenance event on the aircraft, whether it's an inspection or preventive maintenance or changing apart or what have you. So the mantra of cover your butt kinda is good there in that regard, you wanna make sure that you're at least putting in the information that's required to be put in there. And of course, the checks and balances set up that there really is kind of relies not only on the mechanic and, of course

, maybe his boss, the director of maintenance that say, but also on the owners well, or the operator to ensure that all the teaser crossed and I's are dotted in this kind of complex world, particularly with maintenance. Because it's such a mystery to a lot of owners and operators, particularly those that are not involved directly with the operation of the airplane, Perhaps they're just owner passengers or just the users of the airplane through their flight department or what have you? It's kind of a checks and balances with that. Would you agree with that? Larry? Absolutely. And like we talked about earlier because these people aren't familiar, really? Nor should they be about what's required to be in a logbook and what's even required to fix the airplane. All of this is just delegated down to maintenance. You're right. The burden falls on their shoulders to make sure that everything is done properly and documented properly. That's a huge responsibility, absolutely. And for us, you know when we're doing pre buys and or any kind of inspection on the airplane, and we have to make a determination whether the airplanes, airworthy or not. Ah, majority the time

, I'd say at least 80 85% of the time. It's not the condition of the airplane that makes the airplane on airworthy. It's the condition of the records or the inadequate or missing documentation associated with those records. And I'll definitely put a link to your book Common Law Book Mistake's, which I have read to our show notes for our listeners to check out because there's some really great points in there about the common things that people see. And it would make the owner or operator a little bit more familiar with what kind of stuff they should be expecting to see in the logbook and what they shouldn't be. You know, the owner can get, you know, inadequate or crappy for lack of a better term log book entries fixed, you know, with a subsequent injury to add more detail or to make it stand up against, you know if they are 91 for 17, for example, So Larry, we perform dozens of pre buys every year and along with many other kind of audit related task for folks looking to buy or sell their airplane. Part of that process is definitely ought in the maintenance history of the aircraft, and we see all kinds of issues with law books you touched on a lot of them already. You know something That's kind of a sticking point for

me is not having a reference for the work performed, you know, going back to that installed, overhauled engine. It's like, Well, what was the approved data that you used to do that? And did you follow all of the required tasks or sub tasks that are within that particular event or that procedure? So what are some other common discrepancies you notice with aircraft law books? Well, in my book common Logbook Mistakes, I point out some of the most commonly seen mistakes we find over and over again when doing a logo. Got it. You know, I'm sure you've seen many of these yourself when you do pre buys, although there isn't really time here to go into detail on each one, I would like as an overview just to give you the hit list, let's say of what's in my book, what we normally see. The items we usually, you know, typically see wrong with a log book, you know, Number one not taking log books and records seriously. I think that's the most common thing. I see them sitting out in the hangar on Shell's getting dusty and, you know, thrown into cabinets literally thrown with

binders open up in the pages. Fallout. That's not the way we should be. Treating an asset is critical toe on airplanes. Life as a logbook. Some of the other things are not complying with all the regulatory requirements of the F. A. R is a lot of people doing logbook countries. I'm sorry to say, I don't believe they've even read the f a r. You know, it's kind of like This is the way we've always done it. So continue to do it this way. That's not necessarily always the right way. Sometimes there aren't even entries made when works accomplished on the aircraft. A lot of times we'll see like a black box change or something like that, where the mechanic doesn't even think it's significant to note in the log book. But actually it's quite significant incomplete entries. As you mentioned not enough information in each entry or admitting pertinent data, another thing also see a lot is not, including in 81 30 especially in 81 30 deaths. Street airworthiness approval tag. When a part is replaced, the way you can prove

that that part was approved to be on the airplane, the first places without 81 30. So that's an important piece of information to leave out. Then, of course, we have, as we've already discussed, excessive information in the logbook, a lot of it unnecessary. Another thing I don't think people have read the far is to understand really what needs to be in a lot of books. So my example of throwing in all the receipts and hoping that you get the important stuff is away. A lot of logbooks, air treated and they're packed full of information that has nothing for the value are airworthiness of the airplane, also getting logbooks out of order. You know, I see that all the time. You know, one maintenance department will keep on aircraft logbook with where the last comes on top and then, you know, as you go down, you're getting further and further down in the history of the airplane. Uh, other ones will do it exactly the opposite, where the most recent goes on top. And, of course, in the logbook. Sometimes we have both, and so the logical go one way for a while and then the other way for a while. It's crazy. Back in the nineties

, we gotta have got twisted around the axle, I believe with tax cards, and although I don't see it as much these days, I don't know you might still see it with what you do. I don't do a lot of pre buys these days, but using the task card is a logbook. Entry doesn't qualify. If you read far 43.9 or 43.11 that's required for logbook. Entry usually attacks card falls short, then the last two things they see often, you know, although they're not required for most Part 91 airplanes, I believe they're very important to have in a log book. You know, in one is, as you mentioned, keeping a current A D maitresse Ah list of AIDS that you complied with is fine, but the FAA actually tells you exactly what a matrix needs to be composed of, and most certificate holders like 1 35 operators need to keep a matrix, but 91 doesn't. But I think it's an excellent tool to have on an airplane, and the last, of course, is the one that we're dealing with all the time, and I'm addressing it as often as I can. But we don't even in this day and age back

up a log book, and that's just crazy. We have the technology to back up logbooks electronically so that we just won't lose the information. Paper logbook is so fragile, really, when it gets right down to it that we are without excuse that we're not, you know, backing up every single log book for every airplane in existence, as far as I'm concerned, yet totally agree with all your points. But it would particularly that one, because it seems so absurd that we are relying completely on paper. And as we touched on in the last podcast, Number 72 that we did together with mark the value of the airplane, a lot of that value is in that law book. It's it's insane that we don't have some sort of at least back up for it. In the event that the paper gets lost or damaged or stolen or burned to a crisp in a fire, etcetera, etcetera. And it would certainly make the transaction oven airplane much easier if that data was available digitally to the point that you can send it back and forth. It's such a interesting and weird sort of issue that we have there

, and I guess that kind of ties into my next question, Which is what are some ways that owners and operators can improve maintenance records overall and keep them safe? Really, I believe that is two parts to that question, you know, and it really is right down to the reason why Business aircraft records exists as a nonprofit. Improving aircraft maintenance records is something we need to do right now, whether those records or in paper or electronic, the state of affairs of maintenance records right now is horrendous, and we need to change that. But the other aspect of it is keeping them safe. Some operators are kind of with it enough that they're going to keep their maintenance records in a locked cabinet or maybe a fireproof safe, which is even better. They're not gonna let them go off site. They're going to guard them. And that's good, you know? Ultimately, the way you keep in aircraft records safe is to back it up and back it up. Elektronik Lee. That way, the information is just never going to come up missing. You can always replace it with the electronic copy, which will never

be damaged or destroyed. You know, I've seen multimillion dollar aircraft totaled, which I mentioned in my other book that I wrote logbooks and aircraft owners. Nightmare, you know, I've seen them told them not because there's anything significantly wrong with the aircraft, but just because the records had been, you know, damaged to the point where they could not be resurrected and the airplane would have to have all the life limited parts replacing the 80 notes verified and everything else. So at the end of the day, a perfectly good aircraft is totaled because of the logbooks being totaled. Pretty amazing. When you really think about it, right, the records are worth almost as much as the airplane. That's pretty interesting. And as you pointed out in the previous interview, those records air completely uninsurable. So that's an asset that you have that is at risk. Why wouldn't you guys back up your records? I mean, maybe it sounds complicated and, you know, on that subject, how can people back up those records? We know vision law books tell us a little bit about that and how we can use that tool to back up our records and keep them

safe and have that little bit more peace of mind when it comes to making sure asset is not gonna lose value. And we have a whole a perfectly good airplane. Sure. So I started vision logbooks, actually to have one place And, you know, in the 21st century that places on the cloud, of course, where the Elektronik backup for the logbook could reside safely and securely. In other words, that would be in compliance with a c 1 20-78 8, which the F A delineates the security this Elektronik logbook will need. But that would allow access by anyone anywhere in the world that needs to see the information in the logbook instead of risking such an important and as you point out, uninsured asset to be shipped across the country even sometimes across the world and, most importantly, out of the control of the very people, the FAA says have the responsibility to make sure that the aircraft records are complete and accurate. I find that one of the biggest hindrances in moving forward with electronic logbooks is the scanning. I

actually produced a video on scanning aircraft records. It's available on the business aircraft records or website. It goes into detail about scanning logbooks using a book scanner, which is a fairly new technology, but it is the right technology for log books. So if you tried to scan logbooks even two or three years ago with the technology that was available, then I admit it was a bit difficult. But today, with a new technology that is available to us, we're almost without excuse not to be scanning and backing up aircraft records electronically. Absolutely no doubt about that. And it's not as big undertakings, people think, especially with the solutions that you guys offer a vision law books, which is absolutely incredible and very cost effective. And, of course, you have that add a peace of mind. Is there anything else you wanted to add about maintenance records or business aircraft records? in general, your nonprofit. You know, Adam, if I could say one thing that I think everybody in aviation, especially the aircraft owners, operators and maintenance people need to hear

It's this. We need to start taking logbooks seriously. They're not an afterthought now. Sometimes I feel like shouting it from the rooftops has been proven again and again. Logbooks will do more to harm the financial well being of an aircraft owner than almost any other part of the aircraft existence or operation, you know, short of crashing the airplane. So Mark Brooks simply deserve a lot more respect than we're giving them today. We need to start paying attention. So, Larry, before we let you go, what advice do you have for someone looking to put their airplane up for sale specifically? Because I imagine that's in time when most people would be considering maybe digitizing their records. Since the logbook audit is almost inescapable. During the pre by phase of selling the aircraft, I personally would highly recommend that every owner spend the money to have the log books audited, scanned and backed up even before listing the airplane for sale. That way, if a problems encountered you can fix the problem before

it's discovered in this high pressure, pre by situation. And, of course, scanning the logbooks that allows the brokers to share logbook information with prospective buyers instead of somebody traveling halfway around the world to sit in your office and proves your paper log books. And, you know, with the many problems we see with logbooks slowing down the selling process, it's probably one of the best investments we can make who audit the logbooks, have them right and make them Elektronik Lee to sure that nothing is going to go wrong or slow down the sale of an airplane. That's really great advice, and you're right on, because that is a big factor in the overall progression and long term success of the sale of that airplane is three accessibility to the records. Inevitably, those items are going to be looked at and are going to be an issue if they can't be found or are not accessible. And a buyer I know for sure will begin looking at other options. If it appears that the broker is either unable or unwilling to

submit the records or have the records look that so that's a great point. Totally agree with you. I mean, the transaction really depends on it. And not only that, but the long term success of the new buyer depends on the quality and accessibility of those records. So I think that's a spot on point. Now, Larry, I'll have all the links that we mentioned in this episode, including the links to your E books and the advisory circulars and your video. And, of course, your websites in the show notes at Airplane and tell podcast dot com Now. I learned a lot from you today, Larry, as I have been since we've known each other. And I hope all you guys out there listening did as well. I think you're really an inspiration to all of us. You're in aviation and thank you for everything that you're doing to make it better. And the records, like you say, are so important and deserve so much more attention and respect than they get. So thank you so much for your time. And thanks for coming back on the podcast. Well, thank you, Adam. Appreciate the opportunity to talk about this important subject. It really does affect

all of us. in aviation coming onto your podcast to spread The word is wonderful. Thank you again for that. Absolutely. And I'm sure we'll have you on again in the near future. Okay, take care. Thanks again, Larry, for your interesting insights. I always learn a lot from you and I hope you guys did to. Now I highly recommend you check out all the links and resource is mentioned in today's interview by heading over to our show Notes Page for this episode Number 80 at airplane until podcast dot com. While there you can drop us a line and check out our past episodes with even more free Resource is also at some point in the next few days, I challenge you to take Larry's advice. Look over at your aircraft's logbooks to check for missing data and identify ways you can improve them in the future. It will only take a little bit of your time, and I assure you you will eliminate a ton of headache for yourself in the future. Also, look into digitizing your maintenance records by checking out vision law books dot com. It will increase the value of the airplane, and who knows, May even save you from a total nightmare one day

. Well, that'll do it. Forced on today's episode. Thank you so much for spending part of your day with us. We really enjoyed having you aboard. Also, be sure to stay tuned for our next episode, where we'll reveal an easy way to ensure the health and longevity of your aircraft engine until next time, keep the dirty side down and fly safely. Thanks for listening to the airplane until podcast. If you liked what you just heard, we hope that you'll subscribe to our show and leave us a rating or review. You can also follow us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter by searching airplane Intel to access show notes, episode archives and other free resource is Visit us at airplane intel podcast dot com to get a 60 day free trial of co flight, head over to co flight dot com and use the coupon code pre by. Also, if you'd like to support our show, visit us on patryan dot com forward slash pre bye guys. And remember, owning an airplane doesn't have to be hazardous

to your wealth.