All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg

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E16: Reflecting on the riots at the US Capitol, plus: Georgia runoff elections, vaccine distribution & more

by All-In Podcast, LLC
January 8th 2021
I'm going. You be o r a. Well, let your winners ride Rain Man David way open sources to the fans and they've just gone crazy with way, way oh, way! Should all just get a room and just having one Big George. Because their office it's like this, like sexual tension. But they just need to release them out. What, your way. Yeah, Ally

. Right? And we're back. And thank you, too. Young Spielberg, with the all in 1.5 Extended edition remix. We're going all in. That was to the super fans. That was really incredible. We're back. We're back over. Yeah. Shout out young Spielberg with us. The dictator Jamaat Palihapitiya the Rain Man himself. David Sacks is definitely an excellent driver and his dad lets him drive in the driveway. And the Queen of Kenya Spectacular. David Freedberg is with us. We did an emergency pod. We just had all agreed. We're taking a nice break. Nothing's gonna happen over the new year. This is the down period and 2021 is gonna be delightful and simple. And then all hell breaks loose. We could start with the vaccine. We could start with the capital. We could start with Georgia. Now we have to start. We have to start. We have to start with the capital. We have to start the capital. All right, So let me just run through the Siris of events

that occurred here. There's a certification process, correct sacks that goes on where the Electoral College gets counted. And somewhere at 10 a.m. Trump had a rally of thousands of supporters. You were not there, David correct Weren't at this rally. He was in quote unquote Miami. I think he's in the Miami Hilton on Pennsylvania Avenue right now. Had he put up that fake Miami background? But the truth is, let's be honest here. Trump came out at 10 a.m. and had a rally. Jason, can we just take a start back for a second? Because it doesn't David Sacks look like Elliott Gould and Oceans 11 right now. Eso Elliott Gould. Hey, is a silver fox. And are you? I mean, you were very public about being in Miami over the new year. You took your talents in Miami and we see this background eso we can assume that dictators in his pool house poker room We know that

free burgs in a Ritz Carlton somewhere based on the furniture he's in his rich called in office and sacks based on your background. Are you in Miami right now? Are you still there? S still I'm still I'm still here. Okay. But David, did you mean or not? I I haven't. I actually met him. I did meet him. I went to, like, a tech event the other night, and he was there. So you were a tech event. Are you wearing a mask? They It was They were like, massine. No, no, no. I'll tell you, there are mass indoors. And then there was, like, covert testing inside. And then you could graduate to the outdoor patio part where people generally weren't wearing masks. So were you in conversations with people with no masks on? Is that what you're saying at this? Yeah, but, you know, everyone's been like cove. It tested like, a zillion times, and it was outdoors. And, you know, I'm willing to meet with people outdoors. You know, I generally don't do it indoors, but I'm I'm I've said that's my policy. Starting several

months ago, way were a wind toe April with that photo of sacks, do we have it? Where he was in the ski mask and the goggles and helmet like the bythe like how things have changed. He's like, I'll go to Miami and have a chat with someone e. You could definitely dio how it started and how it's going. Split photo for but But look like sharing a banana split with someone like you know Well, because on eBay and Alibaba buying ventilators for his home triage center, Well, I mean, we had people from the W. H. O saying in March that the you know that the case for the infection fatality rate was like 7% you know, and the two big things we learned after that we're number one, that there was a huge distribution by age, right? And so somebody under 50 without co morbidity is had a much, much, much lower risk. And then also, the thing we learned is that the there's maybe a 10 x difference between

the infection fatality rate in the case fatality rate. I mean, you guys know all this and so so at once, we learned those things. I mean, you know, I think a rational person takes things like that into account. I changed my policy with respect to cove it, you know, And now, especially that we have, uh, you know, easy access to tests which weren't available. You could get tested before going into a event. I have a question, Thio, add on to that. Do you own a for Chewbacca outfit on? Were were you in Washington yesterday? Way with more bait on your radio? Do you have a way to Are you standing behind a podium may hide the Viking horns that I've got stashed away here. Alright, listen, there was a great there was a title. Can we title yesterday's event? National Lampoon, Siege of the Capital. It was like Animal House like, Yeah

, there was a great There was a great tweet by somebody saying this was, uh this was like the storming of the Bastille as perpetrated by the cast of Animal House on there. And there was another. There's another great tweet saying, uh, capital now appears to be under the control of a man and a Viking. The best one that was I've lost all respect for Nicolas Cage's ability to steal the U s Constitution, apparently whatever copies. But all right, so let's just go through the chain of events here. And it was it was absolutely surreal because Trump literally went out to a mob of people, Um, and said, I want you to march down Pennsylvania Avenue and show the GOP what it takes to have courage, etcetera. Mike Pence apparently told Trump that he was not going to go to bat for him in this ceremonial, um, process of counting the votes. And lo and behold, you're

watching this, you know the objections going on to the electoral count and you see the Secret Service come rushing in and it becomes a very serious situation. And when you watch some of the videos, it is truly terrorizing that thousands of people overwhelmed the police. And I guess I want to start with people's opinion on Trump's culpability in inciting what waas Very dangerous behavior. Four people are dead. Eso You know, while we're joking about the cause, play outfits a woman who was an ardent Trump supporter who is a vet who did four tours from what I've read, and I shared the video with you before, literally, you know, as they broke into the building, was trying to breach another area of the building, and she's climbing through a window and get shot, apparently by the Secret Service or the police, and dies. And so it's all fun and games until four people are dead

. And now somebody has lost their wife, daughter Jason. I mean, there could have been 400 dead there could have been forth. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, this could have become a shootout at the OK Corral. I can't understand why the police showed the restraint they did. I mean, when you see them getting surround, you saw the one they didn't. They didn't show restraint, Jason. There was no police. When you look at the amount of, um, security, that's typically there and has been there for other situations, and then you compared to the amount of security knowing for a month and a half that this was coming, it's, um it just doesn't make any sense to me. So I'm a little I'm a little dumbfounded that, you know, you couldn't have seen this Facebook group called, you know hashtag stormed the capital, which had tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of members in their plotting and scheming selling merchandise called Storm the Capital. You know, these guys were wearing printed sweatshirts that they had time to make on DNA. Nobody knew about

it. And nobody thought to reinforce um, the security and barricaded and make sure that you couldn't go from the protest site to the cat. I mean, I just seems like there's some level of complicity that needs to get found out here. But there was a There was an interview I saw with a next D C police guy who said that I think folks were told to tamper down. Uh, the police forces were told to tamper down on managing crowds and protests and riots following the controversy associated with BLM a few months ago and spraying folks with pepper spray and water. And all the physical techniques that were used were so outraging that that there was just more of a systemic concern about being too aggressive with protesters, and as a result, they went too far the other way. It's not unreasonable happens to be friedberg that when black people protested in brown people, they got the tear gas and beaten with

batons and Then, when the white people's stormed the capital in the same area, they got walked down the steps and escorted out with a stern warning to not do it again. I mean, this is hypocritical and insane. I don't know why you have to go there particularly, Um, it looked to me like what happened is that the Capitol Hill police simply got completely overwhelmed. You look at these. You know, Giant, this is a rally on the mall that turned into ah mob. Well, first, it's kind of turned into a tailgater. Then it turned into a mob, and then it turned into an insurrection. It kind of stumbled forward in tow, progressive phases of stupidity and disaster. But it looked to me like the Capitol Hill police simply got overwhelmed. They they obviously were unprepared. They were surprised. I think, by this and I saw a video of tons of tear gas being used. I saw people getting tear gas like crazy. And I think there was

reports this morning on Twitter that the whole area in front of the Capitol there was covered in that light film that remains after tear gassing. So I don't think they were really pulling punches too much. And I also think that, uh, that there will be prosecutions. I think that, uh, the these people were captured on video. There's a lot of talk on Twitter, and everybody is in favor of finding out who they are applying facial recognition and, uh, bringing charges. So I think there will be a lot of charges. Unlike, let's say, the bill and protest this summer. I don't remember anybody getting charged based on video of people riding or looting and that I think you know, the final difference actually with the BLM protests is that if you watch Fox News at all in the last 24 hours, the condemnation off of the storming of the capital of what happened has been across the board both right and left. Everybody across the political spectrum has condemned it. Nobody is apologizing for

it. Nobody on the right is looking for root causes to explain the reasons why it happened. Everybody is just condemning it and saying that it should never have happened. And the people who did it should be prosecuted. And eso I don't see any kid gloves here being used. Um, you know either physically or glove sacks is when you see officers being chased up the steps and or taking self is, you know, which is one instance. I don't want to just say that's the only indicative anything. But when people are breaking through windows and just kind of being let go, I mean, they were obviously overwhelmed, but I'm surprised more people didn't get shot. Jamaat. Let's just tackle this head on in terms of the race issue, but I have a question for David before I make my statement. David, do you think that if this were black and brown people storming the Capitol, would there have been mawr or less than four deaths? Honestly, I think would have been the same

. I just disagree. E disagree. I really disagree, and I'll tell you why. I think you have the best of intentions wanting to think that way, but here's the way I see it, I see a president that basically instigated a group of people who are fundamentally disenfranchised. Let's face it like there are There are a lot of very, very reasonable Republicans and a lot of very reasonable Democrats. The fringes of built parties are functionally mentally retarded. We know this, okay? And so what you see are extreme on both sides who are just completely lost and looking for any excuse. And so you have a president in the tail end of his presidency. Anonymous presidency basically called them out. Nobody who actually had a job or anything to do could show up. Right? So you had all these people show up. It's a Wednesday. It's a Wednesday during the day. I mean and what do you think happens? They're they're They're all froth Tup, you know, um

, Eric Trump frothing them up. Donald Trump Jr Frothing them up, Trump Frosting them up, Giuliani frothing them up. And all of a sudden, as you said, stumbling into degrees of craziness and stupidity to storm the capital. And I just think to myself, How could a president instigate this kind of action Number one? The second thing I think about is when black athletes peacefully protest ID something that they had the fundamental constitutional right to protest in the president's eyes. They were sons of bitches, white people that stormed the fucking capital. The people's house were called patriots by the president's daughter, and she was told. And then we're told that they were loved by the president himself. To me, it's just a enormously stark contrast of a double standard. I think that beyond the persecutions of the people, I actually

feel very bad for the people that stormed the capital. I feel like these are folks that are on the fringes who just need, ah, vessel and Trump is a vessel. And then he instigate them and runs away. You know what I mean? I think people Then these guys commit the crime and now they're going to go to jail. I feel like the culpability has to go all the way back to Trump. To Holly, to cruise thes guys are those of the rial scumbags in all of this free bird. What are your thoughts on this? And then I'll go back to Saks and let him respond. Yeah, I don't I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that if this was a black lives matter and it was black people involved or brown people involved in, um in the same sorts of activities you saw yesterday that you would not see, uh, more shootings. I don't think that's unreasonable position to take. Obviously, I think there's this other circumstance, which is that event preceding this one. As I mentioned, I saw an

interview with a D. C police, um, former police direct director of the police. Or so I forgot what his title was, where he highlighted that. You know, folks were kind of instructed to stand down following the BLM controversies, and so I think that's also kind of a reasonable point of view. And, uh, what about the president's culpability? I mean, I think that's one issue that's gonna have to be addressed post. And I think we have to figure out what life Post Trump is gonna be like. Because this is a level of chaos that nobody two Saxes point, all people condemned. Yeah, there's a there's a There's a theory which actually takes its origin from Hitler, where Hitler used this term. The big lie. And you know the theory is that you can create political propaganda by saying something that's so outrageous. Um, it is so improbable that people say there's no way this thing keeps getting said over and over unless it's actually riel. Andi, this is sort of like the Cuban on pedophile

ring and the pizzeria or the fact that the election was stolen from you. It is such an outrageous statement, um, that that it seems to people that it only has to be true, because it is it is such an insane thing. And if it is, it's so insane. And I am so incited by this thing. So this is kind of a, you know, acknowledged as being a, you know, a political propaganda technique that that goes back a long time. By the way, Hitler used it as a way Thio used it as almost like a double bluff to blame the Jews, Um uh, in in Germany, which was, you know, an unfortunate kind of origin of the term. But but the term is used a lot now and saying like, these sorts of events are ridiculous. Now, what's gonna happen? Going forward? I don't think big lives go away. You can try and mute them on Twitter and meet them on Facebook or mute them on Reddit. But whether it's Q and on or whatever is next, um, this is becoming kind of a standard form. Now, because of the way media is distributed, anyone

could say a big lie and it gets Ah, lot of listens, and Trump is totally culpable for that. He made some shit up. He made a bunch of claims. I mean, if if you guys haven't seen Lindsey Graham speech yesterday, it is absolutely worth watching that he gave late late last night on. He's like he's like I asked for the for the show Me, the 10. Give me 10 people that claim that they voted and they were under 18. He's like they gave you one, give me anyone that was in prison or died and they gave me zero. And he's like, goes on and on for a couple minutes about how none of what was said about what happened in the election was true and it was all false. And he's like, This is all just not true. Um, and so I think Trump is culpable for creating a falsehood and and, you know, having a megaphone. And, you know, there are certain about the inciting of violence that is, I think, where the rubber is gonna meet the road. Trump's gonna be out of office in two weeks or less one way or the other. Do you on? Let me just take it to Saks. Saks. I want to give you the time to respond to the issue of the double standard in

terms of race and BLM. And then also, do you sacks If you're on Biden's team coming in, do you advise that you prosecute Trump or investigate Trump for this insurrection? Yes or no? Okay, so just just to tie off on the BLM issue, I just You know, I just finally don't think that race is the issue here. Um, Ahmad, Look, I I don't know at the end of the day, what the fatalities would have been if it had been a BLM protests that that went awry. But I will stick to what I said before, which is I predict that you will see more prosecutions come out of this, uh, of the people who are involved. I'm talking about the people who stormed the capital. Then we saw from all the BLM protests over the summer. I mean, I don't remember any prosecutions coming out of videotape of people being called recorded looting and writing. And I predict you will Seymour here and again. I think another difference again. The extent there's a double standard. Uh, I remember a

lot of left wing news networks, um, calling the rioting and looting the summer peaceful protesters. They clearly were not. You even had a book called in Defensive Looting. And I don't hear anybody defending the storming of the capital. Nobody on the right. So look, to the extent there's a double standard, I don't know that it accrues toe the BLM side of this. But look, I think that's kind of beside the point and not not the real issue here. I mean, Jason, to your question of is trump responsible? Yes, I mean, clearly 100% 100%? Yes, because he he is the one who put forth this theory that the election was stolen and was constantly repeating it for the last two months. Two months ago, right after the election, there was an article published in the Spectator called Deplorables. Don't riot. It was actually a pretty good op end, you know, was written by a conservative and the Conservatives Point Waas that you know, all these windows and shops have been boarded up in anticipation of potential writing and looting with the election

and all these concerns were saying, Well, who's do you know? Who are they afraid of? You know, not not us, not the Maga folks. Well, and the theory was deplorables don't don't riot and and And the right was was proud of that two months ago. And now we are seeing that will know the Deplorables are writing. What? Why is that? What? What changed over the last two months and what changed is the constant feeding to this group of people, this idea starting with Trump and then perpetuated by, you know, different right wing media organizations and other politicians who sort of were, you know, trying to curry favor with Trump. They were constantly pushing forward this idea that the election was stolen so that these people on the mall who then right and stormed the capital, believe that the election was being stolen from them. So, you know, ultimately that responsibility goes is Trump's. So to be clear and reflecting back to you, you're saying Trump incited sedation. Is that the right word? Well, sedition, sedition doesn't seem like

the wrong. It doesn't seem like the exact right word to me. I mean, it it was. It was certainly a riot. Now, now did. Now, look, I mean, you're talking about prosecuting illegal case. Uh, you know, if you wanna look at the legal standard for incitement, it has to be, you know, provoking people to take an imminent, lawless act. Uh, I think I think he load if you want to see that this mob is a gun. I think he loaded the gun. He pointed in a certain direction. But did he tell them to storm the capital? No, not specifically. I think therefore would be a very hard case toe prosecute. But I think, you know, prosecuting him in a court of law is sort of unnecessary and redundant. I mean, I think that in the eyes of the public politically, he is I think most people see that he's culpable. And I even think most of his political career I think he's I think he's disqualified himself from being ah candidate, you know, at a national level again. I mean, if you look again, just go back two months ago. Uh, look at how much has changed. Two months

ago, just in the day or two after the election, Trump had narrowly lost. But there was talk of him starting a new news network to rival Fox. There was talk about he could even be a candidate again in 2024. It was not off the table. I think now it's it's clearly off the table and you've seen it's probably because of the Georgia run offs, which which we should get to. But again, the Republican candidates, at least one of them had one that election two months ago. And now they lost. And that has a lot to do with Trump's antics. In the meantime of just feeding this constant, you know, lie about the stolen election E. I think there's a really important question about, you know, Sorry, but is it worth prosecuting Trump Post? Fact, you know, does that doom or harm or good for for the country as a whole? Certainly there will be a lot of people that would get great satisfaction of putting trump in prison. A lot of people are calling for that, but we really do need to question the you know, the incredible divide in the nation, and what's the best way to to heal the

divide? The objective shouldn't be pursuing justice. Uh, it should be about moving forward. I'm not suggesting don't prosecute Trump, but I I think that it's worth it's worthy of noting that, you know, there is another way of framing this whole thing, which is what's the best thing to do going forward on the flip side, you could even make the case that one of the best things Joe Biden could do today or tomorrow is to announce ah, Federal Election Review Commission. Uh, toe actually look into wrongdoings at the state level with 100% of bipartisan 100%. Yeah, just zone. If Biden did that and he, you know, he basically embraced the notion that a lot of folks are really angry about and said, I'm listening to you. I'm hearing you let me show you. And at the same time, they did not prosecute Trump and, you know, let him go, go off into the distance and do his own thing. Maybe you start to kind of, you know, heal the rift a little bit, But right now, everyone's kind of inflamed. And there is this, like, how do we prosecuted? What do we do? What you know, Do you know? And we're just continuing to kind of escalate the

the dialogue and increase the rift. I just Yeah. So look, I think prosecuting Trump at this point. First of all, it legally, that might be a difficult case to prove because of the need to prove that the that he was trying to provoke a new, imminent, lawless action. You know, if he had been at the barricades, you know, pushing people forward, Yes, but so I think legally to be a tough case. And I think it would be like you said to be unnecessarily divisive and partisan. I don't know why we need to go there. I mean, at the end of the day, any politicians, stock and trade is there credibility and popularity and Trump has fundamentally damaged the perception of him. I think even among the right, I have a huge issue with this and I'll tell you why. It's because the folks that are now going to go to jail were instigated by this guy. And the folks that were there in many ways were brought. They were cajoled. They were instigated to travel from

groomed, to travel there to take the time out of their lives to basically then get fed this rhetoric and in a moment of just crazy, mob like mentality to act out at the behest of the leader of the free world, There has to be a consequence, not just to those people, because they in many ways are not the person to prosecute. To the extent that you are going to put some of these people in jail, which we look like, it looks like we're going to. And by the way, let's be honest. There is no inconceivable way that these people get charged with a misdemeanor that's not going to stand right. And the worst perpetrators of this when they get put in jail, will get put in jail for 5 to 10 years minimum. And so what are what are we going to do when we look at ourselves in the eye and say these poor Americans at the end of the day who were instigated by this guy and he yet again gets off scot free while hundreds of Americans who are basically in a peak of craziness fed by this guy does something and goes to jail and you have hundreds of lives and hundreds

of families ruined. Even if we don't find a way to basically put Trump in jail for this, I can 100% guarantee you. I will bet a million bucks that now the Southern District of New York gloves off every single state that could go after this guy gloves off. And to the extent that Joe Biden had any incentive to basically, like, let this go away at the federal level, Gloves off. In my opinion, I really yeah, let's let's say that folks do go after Trump. What does that do if he gets put in jail or he, you know, gets there's some criminal proceedings brought against him? What does that do to the 50% of the nation that truly support him and truly care about him? You know, I don't like like like the balance of justice versus unification. You know how I think we're talking. Actually, about 25% of the country, I think I don't even think it's that it's right or whatever it is like. There's obviously a big voting block in a big block of the potential

block E. I think I think I think of the 70 million people that voted for Donald Trump. I think there are half of them who would equally vote for a normal centrist candidate and didn't necessarily believe in Donald Trump. Then I think there's the other 35 million, and I do think that there is a spectrum of those 35 I think that you probably lost 10 or 15 million of them after the events of yesterday, where they just threw their hands up in the air and said, Hey, it's really only inflame 20 million correct And I think they agree with tomato on. And those 20 million people are, you know, sad to say, concentrated in about 10 states that don't functionally matter economically or otherwise on DSO about the balance of justice for unification. Certainly it sounds like you're saying weighs heavily towards justice, right? Like more folks will benefit from seeing him come to justice or what perceive justice than I think it will allow. I think it will allow the Republican Party to

re center itself. I think that's better for politics. I think it's better for governance. It's better for America. I think it allows a lot of people to basically wake up out of this haze that they've been in four years and say, Wow, wait a minute, it's enough Like I was on a really bad bender. I did a couple things I really regret, and I need to re center myself. How do you not find this turning into a tit for tat Berlusconi Italy, Brazil, Israel kind of phenomenon where you know, your brother then attacked and challenged. The best of the best tweet I saw on this was this woman tweeted out that the following, she said. When the Democrats lost in 2016, they knitted pink hats and donated to Planned Parenthood. No, they didn't know they didn't. They invented a ridiculous Russian conspiracy theory. They that, like 10 people, went to Russia hoax the Russia, Zelda that they were. The Russians were obviously you're like the last person like the last person who still believes in this. Well

, listen, I still believe that they tried, and I still believe I don't know that they succeeded. But I think Mueller spent two years investigating this tens of millions of dollars 25 FBI and, uh, GOP talking points. The fact is, Manafort went to jail for something completely unrelated. These guys, you must be the last person who still believes that Trump won in 2016 because you think that they think he asked the Ukraine for help. And I think he asked the Russians for help. And I think that he would have gladly accepted the help. Now is it wasn't a conspiracy like Frank. No, it wasn't a person you could ever know if it affected it. But this is the problem with your Russia. Talking point is that you're trying to just say because he didn't get prosecuted, which he's probably not gonna get prosecuted for this either. The guy was a serial offender, okay? And they were trying to get information from Wikileaks and they were trying to get the hacks. And so I don't know why you can so clearly see what he's doing. David, when he incites

this violence, and then you don't see that he would He has no moral backbone or character and that he wouldn't accept foreign aid. No, it's not that. Here's my view. Okay, here's my view Is that when you lose an election as a candidate, you have to look in the mirror and ask what you did wrong. Okay? Trump failed to do that two months ago instead of just taking the l and, you know, and he could have blamed it on the fact the vaccine was one week late. I mean, there were there, he, you know, instead of just accepting the loss, he invented this conspiracy theory that the election was stolen, and he's basically, like, Friedberg said, been pumping it month after month. And, you know, his enablers, you know, have have perpetuated until we had this, you know, total breakdown on storming of capital. But again, you know, where was the democratic reassessment of why they lost in 2016? Who on the Democrat side looked in the mirror and said, you know, we should have lost that election, you know? What did we do wrong? They didn't do that

. Instead, they blamed it all on Russian interference or Facebook. You know, all of a sudden, Facebook went from being a darling to being a escape goat. And there waas, uh, Russian ads being put with rubles and tons of link farms confirmed done by the Russians in order to ferment anti Hillary sentiment. I mean, actually happened. Thio affect the election. Nobody could know that, but it did a yes, we can, because yeah, it did. It did some FSB meeting. There was Russian interference. You were saying there wasn't. And now you're saying there was I'm talking about I'm talking about somebody. No, no, it's not. Because here's the Here's where you're being. Misleading is yes. Is it true that there was some FSB operative somewhere buying ads on Facebook? Hundreds of them, hundreds of them out of billions of impressions. Okay. It was a microscopic number of total

impressions of the election. And the people who actually looked at those ads thought they were absurd. Imagine some operative. Hold on. Let me finish my point. Imagine some operative in Moscow trying to influence the American election by buying ads on Facebook. Did they try? Yes. Look, foreign intelligence services were trying all the time. Okay, But was that, uh, they did try? Yes, but Trump And did Trump and his family asked them? No, there was No, There is no proof of collusion. There was no proof of collusion. Okay, that's what take the meeting. No, that's what Mueller. He spent two years investigating it and found no collusion. Look, so my point is again, we're getting off on a rabbit hole here. But my point was, when When us a candidate losing election, you have to take responsibility for that. That was not done in 2016, and it was not done. Certainly in 2020 by Trump. It is the problem with both our political parties that they would rather invent conspiracy theories and lies than acknowledged why people are rejecting them. Yeah

, about this, I I would say this, but that is not the point. David. You are right. Okay. Somewhere along the way we got stuck worrying about the pronouns that we use and which bathroom should or should not be transgendered. While theme Eric, um, middle class was completely gutted from pillar to post. That is what's created the boundary conditions. For this every single time there's been an insurrection or an uprising or a revolution in America. It has never been about ideology. It has always been about economics. Always an economics is the tip of the spear in this country, whether we like it or not, it started with the Boston Tea Party. You know, it continued through the Civil War. It has always been about that topic, So we all let it happen. We all have a responsibility to fix it. That, though, is a topic I think for another day, because that's the grand dark of what we need to do in our generation and

fix this inequality gap. Meanwhile, we do have this tactical issue, which is you had the leader of the free world, in my opinion. And I think in a lot of reasonable minded people's opinion, instigating essentially at a minimum, a riot and at the maximum some form of like treason, idiotic form of E. I mean that the problem is it's just it is just like it's just it's incomprehensible what it is. I've fallen on the side that we need to prosecute him now. I was I was 50 50 on this, But I'll tell you, what's tipped me over is, you know, if we don't prosecute him, there's this sort of like unfairness to it. I think that's a very good point you made from off. But I also think that he is go. We need Thio wake people up from this fog they've been in Thio Friedberg and I don't I think we have to free the Republican Party to get back to some more version. That is reasonable

, like you are Sacks. The Republican Party, the Republican Party has is already rejecting Trump. So just look at what's happened the last 24 to 48 hours, even after this storming of the capital. Okay, you had Republicans who were just hours before objecting to the electors. They basically were saying, No, I've changed my mind. Lindsey Graham well, like Kelly Law for did. And there were a few other ones who switched sides. You had You had excellent speeches by Lindsey Graham and Romney. I agree with that. They spoke very, very eloquently. And just today Elaine Chao resigned as secretary of Transportation. I think that's mostly significant. She's Mitch McConnell's wife. Look, I think I think after Georgia, the Republican Party was already blamed Trump for that, and now, after the storming of the capital, they're ready to be done with him. This idea that you need toe prosecute Trump Thio and his somehow end his relation with the Republican Party. I think it

will just backfire. Um, I don't think that's what the point is. I think the point is that nobody is above the law. And when you when you lied, you know what? Look, the thing with the people that attended this rally is in any other situation. And Jason, you said it earlier. These are our veterans thes air, the people that are like working good jobs. They're trying to just keep America going. They've always believed in American exceptionalism. There was nothing wrong with that. It was just perverted by this fucking scumbag. He is a complete piece of shit. Fucking scumbag. He's garbage. And I think that's why you have to prosecute him. I think you have to make an example of him. I know that they with Nixon, they took a different approach. But I just think he's too dangerous to leave unprosecuted because every time he has some bad behavior, whether was the Ukraine, Whether it's, you know, Russia, we can debate what level they wanted to engage with Russians. Or, you know, in the case of this riotous behavior, you know, I think he's not going to stop

. That's the thing that I fear is I don't think he's going to stop. Would rather I would rather take every single person arrested and give them zero days in jail and add it all up and give it to Trump. Well, I I wouldn't I mean, I I agree with you toe to some degree that they were victims of this two month propaganda campaign to convince the right that this election was stolen. I think a lot of those people who are storming the Capitol they were there, but not to steal an election because they were thought their their prevent the stealing an election. And so, yes, they have been duped by a lot of people, including, you know, leading with with Trump, but including a lot of other people who should have known better. Uh, but But that being said, they did make the decision toe hop the barricades smashed the windows, go into the capital. Some personal responsibility. Absolutely. Yeah, way tragedy of this woman like, but let's talk about this woman for a second, and I think it's important to look at what the specific case. This is a person who is a veteran, and she

was inside the halls already and was trying to breach another area and she was just shot dead by Secret Service. They might have been protecting the VP. That might have been protecting Nancy Pelosi or Mitch McConnell. Who knows? But they shot her dead. Yeah, I saw it on video. I mean, it's on video. It's unbelievable. And e mean coming from a law enforcement family. I could tell you that's a clean shooting if she was breaching and they told her, Do not come in here, we're going to shoot you. And they were protect. The Secret Service is protecting a NASA set. They're allowed to shoot you like you can't jump that. And she's a military veggies from the Air Force. I mean, what is in her mind, How wound up was she by Trump and by this propaganda that when they told her, do not breach the second door? By the way, you just said the key word. You cannot be spun up in all of this by Giuliani. He's a fucking moron. You know he could barely like, not what? His pants, You

know, you're not going to get spun up by Sidney Powell. Thea only person that can really catalyze This is the person that has the respect that comes with sitting in the seat that's called the presidency of the United States. And she's the only one. He's the only one. We all know this because if Giuliani was running this rally and said, Let's go storm the capital, nobody would have done it We all know this look, yeah, What do you think about this woman, David, Like, think about the psychology of this person for a second. The humanity of it. You know, I'll say something. I think, um, man politics is isn't the problem. It's kind of a manifestation of the problem if you think about how crazy it is that I posted a tweet about this the other day because I've been thinking about it a lot. I think it's so crazy that you can show people a TV ad or or a Facebook ad and get them to change their mind on what to vote. Like, um, people are kind of shown stuff, and and the bigger problem is this kind of reductionism

that Z that's kind of enveloped all of this. You know, if you if you go back 100 years, I guarantee you people were having deeper, more civil conversations about differences of opinion and ways to govern and and and laws to govern us. And I think, like, you know, it's so easy to put a 32nd kind of reductionist ad in front of someone, uh, insight there kind of amygdala toe to respond, hunt and change their mind about something or push him in some direction. And I think that's the bigger issue with, like, what's been going on is, people are kind of being pushed all the way to one side or pushed all the way the other side, um, through this, you know, this this very kind of simple process. There is no dialogue to decide what candidate to vote for dialogue, to decide what path to take it. It's all in city areas like lock his ass up, you know, kill them like everything has become extremely binary. Onda grayscale is really the reality, and unfortunately, we've kind of really hurt ourselves in this tribalism over objectivism kind of approach to

how we talk as a society and how we debate. Um and as a result, people are pushed over the edge on I think This is a manifestation of that broader problem, which I think is probably linked to the Internet and short attention spans. And this is what's going on. So why? I think the GOP has just been completely, you know, But it's not just the GOP dominated, but what I'm saying. They think it's a good way into Georgia. But which is the same about AOC? And you could say that AOC is doing the same to the Democratic Party. And they're they're, you know, equally frustrated with this extremist point of view, or Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders. And they're you know, none of them got the nomination. None of them got a but they could have and they were close. And it was like, Hey, look, give everyone a million dollars. Okay, great like and tax the rich 90% great, like it's easy to say. And And my point is, by the way, I think the root of a lot of this is, um is people are programmed to be unhappy, right, that that's how you instigate people to take action

. The bottom 10% of Americans make more money and have a better position in life than the top 10% of Kenyans. Um, and it's an incredible statistic. If you think about it, go to dollar ST dot org's dollar ST dot com, and you can actually play around and see what different people live like around the world. Yet in the US, we're told at every strata, whether you're wealthy or or not wealthy relative to others in the United States, that you should be better off. And it is. You know, happiness is the difference between expectation and outcome, and everyone's been set an expectation beyond what they currently have. And as a result, through programmatic work that is done on people in the United States, we're being told you should be unhappy. Oh, and by the way, here's the short term solution to resolve it, and it's driving an incredible amount of of behavioral shift, and it really threatens democracy, as we saw this week and you guys will remember my my my big loser for the political loser for 2020 was the American Democratic Institution on. I think

we saw that this week on the on the heels of that. Can I ask you guys what you think of this basically Pelosi has told Pence, You have to invoke the 25th Amendment or they're going to take up impeachment. What do you guys think about that? I think it's the right thing to do. How do you do you think they have to be? There has to be a backstop against what I mean. Is it possible Trump could do something crazy? You could. So here's the thing. I I tweeted a pre Bihar about this. If you are impeached successfully, you can't run again S. So I think that this is a way to put the nail in the coffin of Trump, even having the ability to run in 2024 which I think is why the Democrats are on the right side of history on this one. That's my personal. Maybe they signed a non prosecution agreement with him. If he resigns and that that's kind of the final, you know what I would like to see? But, Jason, why can't you trust voters toe make the right decision in 2024? I, um do you trust voters

? It's not about trusting the voters. It's more about. Do I think they should be ramifications for somebody's behavior. That's that's my fear is that if he keeps getting away with stuff, he could do something even more violent or dangerous. As chairman said earlier, It's a miracle that 100 people were in shot dead and this wasn't a firefight. I mean, if somebody takes out a gun at any moment during that and people start shooting, we could have hundreds of people Americans dead, not just the four who died. And I think Trump is absolutely capable of doing something in the last 14 days. If he did this 15 days out, why wouldn't he do something else seven days out or three days out? He's a maniac. I mean, this is insane. Deranged criminal lunatic behavior. It's completely possible that he could do something more dangerous in the last 14 days. I know that that sounds crazy, but look at what we saw yesterday. I think I think there is, like a white knuckle element to the next two weeks. I think we're all kind of white knuckling it toe, you know, to see

what's gonna happen. We have 300 hours to go till Biden was sworn in, and I've got to admit like I I'm counting down the hours. You know, everybody. Everybody's feeling Everybody's feeling that that being said, I I just think that, um, or on on free free Berg's point of view on this, that we have this insane level of partisan warfare in the US It's gone to like a whole another level, and I just and and and Trump has definitely made it worse. And the storming of the capital is the you know, is the zenith of it is the apex. But look, the other side's been doing it to. And the question is just how we deescalate this insane parts. And in the escalation, Chamakh isn't Biden like being elected. E think it is e think it is. It's like we we picked the most boring candidate who has the most milk toast. Middle of the road approach, who Lindsey Graham likes and who traveled the world with. I mean, Lady G loves him well

, to to the extent that Biden has a mandate, this is it. I mean, and he talked about it. The in his victory speech that night, which was, which was was quite good. It's about bringing people together. Um, now look I mean, the the issue. One of the issues is you can't ignore the fact that Democrats for the last four years have waged this insane partisan war against Trump. I mean, let's not even go into the merits. But you had this to your Mueller witch hunt. You then had this impeachment, uh, you know, crusade. Which, Look, if there was a lot of validity to the impeachment, why wasn't used as a campaign issue last year? I just think everybody knows. Everybody knows that was hyper partisan. And my point is that yeah, look, I mean, I think it's a good thing if Biden can de escalate things that that is, that is, I think why he won the election is that he was seen as more of a sane alternative. Let me ask you a question. Sex. Do you think it would have been? Do you think if Trump had been impeached for the Ukraine? Uh, interference and pence had

taken over. We would not have seen what we were seeing yesterday. And the country would have been further along to healing. Uh huh. Uh, so you know, No. I mean Pence would not have invited or asked all of his supporters to come to the capital to oppose the counting. The counting of the electors. I look, that was a unique trump thing for, you know, he could not accept the loss and had to keep pushing and pushing and pushing on this idea that he that the election was stolen. Okay. No, no, it wouldn't. No, it wouldn't. Because if you had, if you had impeached Trump. Well, first of all, he was impeached. Okay? But if you had voted to convict him, if you had removed him from office, the Senate had voted to convict over a phone call. Okay? And look, I'm not defending the phone call. I'm not saying the phone call was perfect. Okay, I know. Trump says it was perfect. It was not a perfect phone call, but you can't remove a sitting president for that. Okay, look, it was unseemly or whatever. I think we all know what he was trying to do in that phone call. But you can't remove a sitting president

over that. That was hyperpartisan. And so no, the country would be much further apart today if you had done that. And and so the question now is well, how do you bring it back together? And I think I understand where tomorrow is coming from. I think that Trump deserves morally culpable Lee. Uh, I think he repudiation some repudiation, but But I don't believe in locking him up or prosecuting him. That's only gonna make things much for crime for this crime way. Don't even know what else is out there. I mean, I think, Yeah, there's other issues out there. Let's talk about Georgia. E think we've nailed the Trump. I mean, let's anybody really feels like continuing to talk about Social. Stacey Abrams is a genius. I mean, my gosh, she should be in charge of everything you can. We get her on the vaccine. Roll out. Well, Trump. Stacey Abrams did an incredible job on the Democrat side, mobilizing turnout. But the reason why the Republicans lost Georgia is, frankly, Trump. Trump costs them. Georgia. Two months ago

, Purdue beat Ossoff. In that election, he won, he won, and he's being him before I think he is. I mean, he's not the most wonderful candidate, but I think he is a better candidate and he lost because of these antics over the last two months, culminating in that insane phone call that Trump had with the Georgia. Talked about this burger, right? Can't you just find me that? Can't you just find the 11,000 votes? Look, I just think, you know, I don't want more prosecutable sending people to the capital or asking them and begging them to find him 11,000 votes. Which one is more prosecutable to use accents? You're gonna be framing Lett's Jason. Hold on, Let's let's let's move on. Let's move away from the whole Trump goes to jail for a second. I just want to I think it's important to talk about George because I think, David, you're going to make a point. Yeah, exactly. I mean, look, I think we're getting hung up too much on the legalities and let's just talk about what's right and wrong. You know which we is, what we can agree on and let you know. Lawyers and prosecutors figure out the legalities

. Um, Ramesh Preneurs from National View had a great quote about Georgia. He said that Purdue and lawful er could have survived any two of these three being unimpressive candidates. Georgia shifting purple and trump being a maniac. And unfortunately, you had three out of three. And that's why they lost. If it was a great is a great quote. Uh, you know, you have the Raffles burger call, you know, can't you just find the 11,000 votes the day before the election or two days for the election? I mean, that had to push swing voters and undecided to the Democrats. And the other thing is that Purdue and La Flor weren't able to make the best argument that they had, which is, if you vote for us, you end up with split, you prevent the Democrats from having all the power in Washington. So unless you want to give all the power in Washington to a single party, you need to vote for us. That was the best argument for voting for them because there's a lot of people in this country who believe in splitting their ticket because they don't trust either party, which is kind of where I'm at. Um

, but they were unable to make that argument effectively because Trump was still hanging on to the idea that he was gonna be president. No, I think David, I Honestly, I think this comes down to the intelligence. The candidates. Kelly Laughter is a moron. She's an idiot. Uh, David Produce a good old boy. He's an idiot. They're just stupid. This actually speaks to a bigger problem, which is the Republicans could do so much better if they could actually find younger, more vibrant, intelligent people. And instead they find these fucking morons. I don't know where they find them, but, you know, they pulled Kelly Loeffler autism like backstage Dallas beauty pageant. Just kind of like, fluffed her up and tried to get her to run. She's a moron. Lawful. A lawful a state. Fucking idiot. Did you read the story about her with the W N B A. But, I mean, Georgia is unbelievable. Georgia, Georgia is full of so many incredible politicians. And they found that idiot that that was a huge mistake if they just voted. Yeah, maybe the governor made a huge mistake. They put they pointed her to the last two months s

. So I I agree that she is a particularly weak candidate, but the Republicans only need one of these two elections, and Purdue had beaten also before agree with you. He's not initially the greatest candidate all time, but he has proved better than also in the past, including November. And the reason why he lost two months later is because what's transpired In the last two months, Biden has acted presidential, and Trump has done what he's done and that that made all the difference. And And that, by the way, is why you're seeing the Republicans breaking from Trump. They were already on their way to breaking with them, and then you had this David storming the Capitol. What are the implications for Josh Holly and Ted Cruz? I think I think this was a blow to them because I think that what they were doing in terms of, uh, opposing the electors, uh, everybody knew it was sort of cynical. And it was theaters. It was performative theater designed to curry favor with Trump so that he might endorse them in 2024 for the nomination

. And it was It was it was opportunistic. And the problem is, it backfired horribly. And, you know, people now see it for what it waas. And so, yeah, I think it's gonna ultimately they tried to do something opportunistic that they thought would help him politically, and I think it's gonna hurt them. But wait, I have to ask you guys, Do you guys know the back story of lawful er and the Atlantic dream? The W N B a team? It's too. Honestly, Jason, I'm gonna get so angry because she is just a complete piece of shit. Please don't lie. I'm you could bring it up. I I think she's just free burger aware of this, but I think she's a complete piece of shit. She basically tell the story. It's basically she was anti BLM, and she was writing letters to the n b a w N b A. To not allow the players Thio to be vocal about black lives matter with the, you know, after the killing of the murder of George Floyd and eso what the team did, if you look at that story, is they backed Warnock

. They got on the call with him. They refused to say her name, and they rallied the support of Warnock, who ultimately beat her, and they refused to say her name ever again. The players on her own team courage, if you want to see courage. The women that play in the w N B a are some of the most incredible people in the world thes air women's that have basically stopped their athletic career. Stopped fame, you know, stopped all of the attention in some cases, stopped fortunes to work on behalf of criminal justice reform to basically overturned, you know, unjust convictions. Thes women are incredible. And then to be suppressed, to be able to say what was on their mind. Kelly Loeffler is a piece of shit. And they basically were these vote war knock T shirts every day at every game. I mean, imagine. And then now they're, I think, going to be four. Yeah, Give them Seubert, I think is the was the leader of the whole

movement. Yeah. Bravo to her. All right. Moving on from politics. I think we have to talk Freeburg about the deployment of the vaccine. I did a quick poll on Twitter and Twitter, and the American people have asked that friedberg, the Queen of kin wah be responsible for the vaccine distribution going forward. Really date. Let's do it. Uh, I would e you would get that vaccine into everyone's arms in 75 days. I mean, would you would you would be such a stone cold lock. That would be amazing. For what would you do differently that maybe you could describe, You know, we were supposed to be at a million a day. We're at 3. 50 trending towards 400. We did 1.5 million in 72 hours, according to Fauci, at one point right after the new year. So we're kind of like halfway where we need to be. What would you do differently? Because the rollout seems way more than 50% are on the shelves

. It is a wartime scenario. When war is happening, you don't go home at five PM and wake up at 9 a.m. And clock out for an hour for lunch. And you know you don't. Well, don't run too fast. You know you might trip. You don't do any of that. We've created incredible disincentives in the system by in fact, Cuomo put out a million dollar Fine. If if you get your vaccine out of line, I mean, think about the disincentive that creates now people arm or scared about giving the vaccine to the wrong person. Then they are incentivized to give the vaccine to the right person. And the reality is, this is a group game. This isn't an individual game. It's not about who gets vaccinated first and you'll live and you'll die. We all need to get vaccinated as a group so that we all have immunity so that this virus stops spreading. It doesn't matter if you're individually vaccinated. It matters if we're all vaccinated, cause that's the only way we're all gonna get out of the economic slump that is truly damaging this country

right now. And so the first step is create a military style operation. Figure out how many feet on the ground, you know, it's It's all a rate based system, right? How many are you running per day, and then how do you achieve that objective? And over time you have your target rate per day. You would scale it up over 75 days. Whatever your rollout timeframe needs to be. And you would say this is how we're gonna get there. We need this number of people giving shots this many minutes apart, and then you go figure out where you going to give the shots and who's going to give them? Get the vaccines to where they need to get to take over all the gymnasiums and all the stadiums and all the open sports facilities around the country. People can drive up, stand in line, get a freaking shot and 65 year olds get priority for the 1st 30 days. And then after 30 days, you're 65 over. Crowd loses their priority, and it's open season for who wants to get a shot. You stand in line, you get a shot. Walk in. You got 3.8 million nurses in the United States. You go contract 500,000 of them. You give them a huge freaking one time bonus to come and run this program. You run 24 hour shifts in the gymnasiums

around the country. People come in, they get shots, they get out, takes three minutes. If you're feeling weird. If you have risk of allergies, you go sit in the other room. You wait for two hours and there's a bunch of roaming nurses keeping on you, and you get this thing done. That's it. This is not that complicated. And we can leverage the National Guard to create the infrastructure to support these lines and get these things done. We could go recruit there. Plenty of nurses associations. You could go. People can work overnight shifts and get paid triple overtime. Get extra bonuses for doing. This is a great way to kind of create economic stimulus around this. We can get this entire country vaccinated 90 days, and the way that Israel is doing it is a great model, you know, when they run out, described eso at the end of the day, if you know when you open, when you take these things out of deep freeze, you're at risk of them spoiling at that point because the Mara is very, you know, could break. And so it needs to be really cold, and then you got to give the vaccine very quickly. Otherwise, the Amarna can degrade, and it's not effective, and you have to defrost it in order to get it. Yes, you defrost it. Then it's sitting there. Now you gotta give it within a couple hours, and if you got extra does complicate what they're doing

in Israel is they're looking outside. They grab the pizza guy that's on the bicycle on the bicycle, cruising by their like. Do you want a shot? Come on in. They give him a shot, they grab the next guy. You do not need to track everyone that gets the shot. You do not need everyone to show their i d to get a shot. You do not need to x, y and Z. All the disincentives that create friction in the system of rolling out the vaccine need to be completely eliminated. There's no qualifying criteria except maybe being 65 over for the 1st 30 days. And we've prioritized politics over health and safety. We have made it the case that the teachers should get the shot first because the teachers unions created an uproar in California. So they're not gonna goto work unless they So now the teachers are going to get it, and the essential workers, they're gonna get it. Which of people that are working in stores and warehouses and other stuff. And meanwhile, the people that can actually die from this 15% likelihood of death if you're over 85 are not getting it because they're not technically essential workers. So the prioritization where we've tried to create these artificial, politically motivated systems for defining who gets the vaccine and who doesn't is absolutely killing us and literally killing us. 4000 people died yesterday in the United States

, and so the system is fucked up. The incentives. We don't bleep that out because that's exactly what it is. The disincentives we've created are destroying the roll out. The governor is getting involved in creating models of prioritization there. Politically motivated are killing us. And and we should centrally planned this thing. War Production act. Make a shit ton of the stuff. Grab it all. Get 100 million doses distributed into gymnasiums around the country. Get the nurses and their get the National Guard should have e I mean, that's the key. That should have 24. Central planning is sometimes needed to get shit done. We did it with the war production board during World War Two. We did it with the Manhattan Project. There have been countless examples where we've had to centralize planning for a massive short term event, and this is one of those events, and this needs to be, um, prioritized and organized centrally, and it needs to have the right minded people on this not kind of people that are, you know, political operatives and not people that are working 9 to 5. But the good news is this is this is a war and we need to go in the fucking war. I

mean, Trump Trump has time. He's at Camp David this weekend, so I think he can put some attention to it. Sex can ask the question, Freeburg. So, you know, uh, what do you think about just using markets to distribute the vaccine? It's a great idea. I think you know, you have to get the incentives such that kind based systems are the incentive, right? Because the objective here is to get as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible. So take that being your objective and then figure out. Look, you guys are gonna get $1000 per person vaccinated in the 1st 15 days, and then you're gonna get $500 and then, you know, whatever the transition is, and then anyone can sign up to buy doses at a cost so they have skin in the game, right? That's an alternative. So let Walgreens and CVS by 50 million doses, and then they're incentivized to get them rolled out as quickly as possible. Let them do the work. Sure, Onda. Frankly, if a few people have anaphylactic reactions across the country, that's just the reality. In war, you have some casualties. This can't be perfect. It has to be good enough to win the war. Um, by the way, when somebody goes into anaphylactic shock

, just toe clarify that you're gonna be shot. It's not fatal. If you have an EpiPen, that's right. And so so you know, when you get a when you get a, you know, a vaccine. If you get one of these vaccines, 40% to 60% of people are gonna have some sort of reaction. You can have a fever because these air these produced a ton of proteins in your body relative to what you would normally, you know, kind of experience with the dead vaccine. A lot of vaccines in your but there's a lot of protein in your body. Your body reacts to get rid of that protein. You produced all these antibodies very quickly. So you end up having a fever, you end up having some some allergic response or headaches or flushing or whatever. So everyone's gonna have a lot of people gonna have some sort of thing. So one of the concerns is they wanna have nurses available and they wanna have this feel like a controlled medical environment. But again, the reality is we have to sack it up. We have to accept the fact that people are gonna be uncomfortable. It is not gonna be an easy, simple vaccine like you get the flu vaccine at Walgreens. Gonna be a little bit uncomfortable. You may not have five or six nurses surrounding you and getting all the TLC that Americans have

become used to getting every time we, you know, brush are freaking teeth and and we're gonna have some people go into anaphylactic shock and they're gonna get EpiPen shots and, you know, on we shouldn't be charging $1500 for EpiPen shots is another, you know, important point. But I think the market based model could work as well. So Israel done this, right? I mean, Israel, they moved the old people to the front of the line. But anybody could get in line if they've got extra doses that day. They just keep sticking people. They keep jabbing people until they run out all day long till they run out, right? And so they're probably 20% of the population by now. Yeah, eso I'm sure we all agree with everything you're saying. It speaks to an enormous amount of political and competence. I mean, it's really, really just unbelievable why we just don't have smarter people in charge of these things, but sacked. I just want to ask you because, you know, there is the conservative argument on this, which is, um, you know, states the federal government shouldn't be doing everything, and states need to kind of manage their populist and manage. You know what goes on locally

? You know what is the conservative? I'm not asking you this, and I'm not attacking you. I'm just asking, like, what is the conservative argument for not doing central planning in central organization around vaccine distribution and delegating it to states and, you know, are there, you know, do you think that there's a case against, um, you know, for that that that's pretty strong in within the Republican Party and within kind of conservative? I think If there's a conservative point of view on this, it would just be that let let markets distribute the vaccine. They'll do a much better job. I don't you know, I think whether it's federal or state, the question is who's more incompetent and I'm not really sure. Um, I mean, I I think the problem right now is that when you make vaccine distribution fundamentally political, then the debate becomes about exactly who's what. Is your position gonna be exactly in line, as opposed to just running the most number of people through the process as quickly as possible? We're getting ourselves so twisted up in knots over making sure that the exact right person is in line

that we're having, you know, vaccine, go to waste. Just to put that in context, 21 million plus doses have been distributed. United States 5.9 have made their way into people's arms. In other words, there are 15 million over 75% of doses have not gone in people's arms, and in California we have distributed 5.85% of the populations vaccines. But we've Onley put 1.3 in people's arms, so we are literally four x where we should be where a 25% of where we should be. It is absolutely unbelievable that this is happening. And if the government, if the government's if the government stopped trying to do anything except, you know, look, it did operation warp speed that actually did help get vaccines done faster. But if you just just that was just money to your point sex. All they did was create a market where they basically pre bought all the vaccines, whether or not they were gonna work and then funded the market to go and produce them early

. That's all that it was. So to your point, that operation warp speed for everyone thinking it's a massive, centrally controlled effort. It was a market based incentives they put wasn't the Manhattan Project is what you're saying. They put up a couple of billion check. They put up a couple billion dollars and said to all these pharma companies, go produce the vaccine and if it works well by them, if it doesn't work, throw them away. But let's get production going. And that was it. Can I can I use this as a segue? like. I mean, what we're seeing is sort of we have a bunch of elected officials. We give them, you know, an enormous amount of responsibility. They also get this implied power. And then you just you see, sometimes in thes acute moments, they're totally derelict. Then I just want to move off of vaccines for a second. Then you get an elected official who is not acutely incompetent, But it seems broadly, grossly and consistently incompetent. And I want to talk about chess a boudin. And I want to use Sachs's article, Which, to be very honest

, David was probably one of the most incredibly well written things you have ever created. I don't know, Jason, do we have show notes? Can we put it in? Put in the show notes? What? A link in the show notes. Um, it is so fucking good. What you wrote, if everybody folks who are listening have a chance to read David's killer D a three killer d A. Um, but it basically, you know, starts with the profile of this young woman. Seemed like an incredible woman that was killed by this drunk driver. But anyways, David, you wanna talk about it? Yeah, I mean, so for the last with that's if the last couple of months I've been following the Tarasco, uh, a couple of cinemascope police department accounts on Twitter. And I was noticing these extraordinary tweets which were getting retweeted a lot about how they kept arresting and then having to let go of all these criminals who are committing burglaries and other crimes. And you could see the frustration of the police department boiling off these tweets And, you know, basically their

sub tweeting this new district attorney that we've had chase Boudin, who was elected, Uh, he's been in office about a year. He's elected the end of 2019. And so I started doing a little bit of research, and then we had this horrible New Year's Eve killing of this. You know, uh, wonderful young woman, Hannah Abe, who came to America from Japan for college and stayed here for work. She was just 27 years old. She gets killed by, uh, by by a criminal. Someone who was released who was paroled by Chase a boudin. Uh, back in April, he had been in jail for armed robbery chasing released him as part of a plea bargain. And then he was arrested five more times for stealing cars and other crimes, most recently two weeks ago and the d A refused to press charges and that that's the reason he was out on New Year's Eve. He stole a car. And then there was this hit and run where he killed Hannah and another woman. And so, you know, I had already been

noticing this issue. And so I started doing some some research, and I have a research assistant helping me with This is the only way I could put something like this together. And we went pretty deep, and we realized that the death of Hannah wasn't just an accident or an act of negligence by this d A. It was part of an overall philosophy of Deke arse oration that he has, but he has. His background is very interesting. He was a child of parents who are in the weather underground, who, when he was just a baby, committed armed robbery and were part of the murder, which was David David, say the words. They were domestic terrorists. Yeah, they were. They were That's right. They were domestic terrorists. Uh, they participated in an armed robbery against the Brinks truck. And these were domestic terrorists that were competent when compared to what we saw yesterday in the capital, like these are highly capable domestic terrorists. To be clear, I don't know. I don't know how capable they were there. Their robbery results in the death of two police officers and a Brinks guard, and

they were put in prison. His mother spent 20 years in prison. She's now released. His father is still in prison. Uh, for almost 40 40 years, Um, and he's described in interviews how his earliest memories or visiting his parents in prison and how this shaped his entire political outlook. And he became a public defender, which I think was a pretty good place for him. I think if I were an indigent, you know, criminal defendant, I would want someone like Jason Beauty on my side. And but the problem is, he ran for district attorney, and he simply doesn't believe in prosecuting huge numbers of crimes. You know, certainly property crimes, burglary, shoplifting, vandalism, and those crimes have absolutely spiked in the city. You know, uh, 45% increase in burglaries in one year. 35% increase in stolen cars, 30% increase in homicides. Crimes air through the roof because he simply doesn't believe in putting people in jail. Okay, you

know, I just say Sorry, let me just point out there's a There's a little bit of a history thio to this notion that DHS should change the criminal justice system. There's a Ted talk by a guy named Adam Fox Sex. I don't know if you've seen it or if any of you guys have watched it. I was at the Ted Conference the year that he spoke, but this guy basically thought, you know, he made the case that it is the role in the opportunity for the district attorney for the prosecutor could change the criminal justice system from the prosecutorial side that you can, you know, kind of de motivate jail and and other kind of, um, you know, mechanisms of punishment. Onda push for ah for ah rehabilitation program as an alternative and that the district attorney's could take this this role on of changing the criminal justice system. And it created a little bit of a mini movement and there was a lot of attention and follow up after he gave his Ted talk. And I think San Francisco, in large part, picked up on the momentum coming out of this and other similar sort of stories about the D A can really change the criminal justice system

. And Tessa Boudin really kind of capitalized on it. In principle, a lot of people are motivated from a good place when they elected him, which is it is unfortunate a lot of people get trapped in a life of crime, and the fact that they're in and out of prison is a result of the fact that they put into the criminal justice system in the first place. And parole is really harsh on people and all these other reasons why people's lives are ruined for simple mistakes, and if they get an opportunity in life, they can fix themselves and they can come out in a better place. So there is a bit of an origin story. It's not just like San Francisco said, Let's get an anarchist to be our d. A and destroy the world on and kill us all. Like I think it came from a good and true place where this all kind of originated. But obviously the experiment has gone severely awry in San Francisco, and his particular methods Andi. His particular actions have certainly cause far more harm than anyone has seen any good. That's what I think, we pointed out, started a recall effort for him to. Well, I think that I think the danger is not that you have unenlightened political philosophy. I think that's actually quite great than

that. We can experiment. I think the danger is both on the left and on the right, where people cathartically deal with childhood trauma through their job. And, you know, I don't know what Jesse Boudin has gone through, and I feel very bad that he had an incredibly hard life, Um, or complicated. Or maybe not. I don't even know, Um, but I wouldn't want to know that he's trying to deal with his own experiences through his job because that's not his job. Meaning, you know, you don't want an activist d. A. I think you want a D A that's enforcing the laws, and what you do want is you want to elect politicians who changed the laws to reflect our values. Yeah, that would be ah, better through line, I think. And really? I mean, if you look at what's happening in San Francisco, I think we've conflated income inequality, which people in San Francisco are very tuned into with essentially junkies, people who are addicted to incredibly hard core drugs that are very

hard to get off of. And we've had mawr deaths from overdoses of fentanyl than we've had from cove it by a magnitude of four or five. I mean, it is bedlam on the streets of San Francisco. And if you don't enforce a basic rule of law, what happens is the price of drugs gets cheaper, more available. More people try them or people get addicted. And then more people come from other places because they know you have the lowest price on drugs, and the price of drugs is inversely correlated with prosecution of drug crimes. So on prosecution of crime. So this is why San Francisco, on most drugs air purchased from criminal funds. So, you know, criminal activity goes up to fund the drug purchasing. So that's the vicious cycle that that's that's driving San Francisco. And there's a recall going on and then, in related news, Gavin Newsom is now up to a million signatures in his recall, which I think is two thirds of the way there. Yeah, they have until

mid or late February, they're going to get the votes. And I think I think the question, you know, Friedberg and I talked about this just on a phone call. He and I caught up a couple days ago. I think it is time guys, for us to find an incredibly centrist, thoughtful candidate and put them into the recall race against Newsome. Freeburg had the best idea, which was Kim Kardashian, which I think is incredible because she is very smart. She's very likable. She's got enormous distribution. She's like she's about to become a lawyer. You know, that would be the best for Kardashian to run for president. Look, it's it's pretty clear, you know, recognition, influence. Fame is what gets people elected. You know, not the best policy and not the greatest experience from Jesse Ventura toe Arnold Schwarzenegger to Donald Trump is Air Ronald Reagan. I mean, these air celebrities who I would argue in the case of Jesse Ventura, Arnold Schwarzenegger and maybe even Donald Trump is. Well, their celebrity was kind of, you know, it had hit it zits, media driven

Apex. And this was a second act. And, you know, perhaps someone like that is a great fit here. Uh, Kim Kardashian really fits the bill, but, you know, that's just a shot in the dark. But I do think someone like that needs to go up, because if you put politician up again, it's another one of these eye rolling events and for, you know, for the populace to kind of really find appeal. It has to be a recognized person, you know, broadly recognized and liked person. Yeah. Um e it could be you, governor. Jason dot com. I'm not ready. Thio run for political office. I'm 50. And when I'm 60 I would consider it, actually, but not right now. I want to look at a hop to I think we all gotta hop. But I was going to say one thing, which is the beginning of today's podcast, was probably the punches that's ever been. And I think it just speaks to the fact that there was. So they're the bar was so high for Trump to have done something that would have actually gotten us to actually argue and interrupt each other, you know, because we've been

so incredibly like, loving and protective of each other for four years on this topic. But it literally took an armed insurrection, right? It's best is the best is. I mean, I think it's good for people to see sacks, maybe an I or she meth and Sacks or whoever disagree on some of these cases. Or Freeburg, you know, doesn't believe in prosecuting Trump. I think we actually split ticket there where Sacks and Freeburg felt like we shouldn't prosecute. Trump and Tomato and I were in the prosecute. Trump won, but I think we're all struggling with these issues. All Americans are struggling with these issues of how do you deal with a black swan event? I think that's what's so unique about Trump is, and I think David you could speak to this is I don't think the system was designed for his level of crazy right, like our system is based on norms and traditions and trust, just like venture investing is and we see this in venture investing. Some founder goes off the jumps the fence and

all of a sudden, you know? Yeah. I mean what we say. So I would say that our system performed pretty well in terms of being stress tested. And we'll look, we still got two more weeks. You know, I think we're all kind of We're all kind of white knuckling it right now. Yeah. Hoping nothing. Yeah. Hoping nothing else happens. But But look, if if Trump's goal was a coup, you know, I think it's a strong word, but if, like, it totally failed. I mean, he didn't come close to, uh to succeeding in a coup, you know, through the opposite. He again, we talked about how I think his he destroyed his popularity over the last two months. He he impacted his earnings by negative $2 billion. Yeah, so but but but But you know, but But to this point about us agreeing or disagreeing, you know, I saw a whole bunch of fans of the pod, like at mentioning me, saying, I wonder what Sacks is going to say about this. I don't know what, like yeah, and I'm kind of like like, what do they think I'm gonna say? Like they think I'm gonna be supportive of this

. I mean, you know, like, I think somehow you, Jason, you've programmed the viewers that I like. I'm somehow like the Trump, the trump guy. Uh, you know, because you're always trolling me is the trump supporter. I mean, I would believe that Russia was a hoax and that no, I would have been treated the same climbing up those steps. We all know that's not true. Some of these are self inflicted wounds of your own. Get Take some ownership there, boys. Boys e gotta hop. I love you very much. Happy New Year. Happy New Year about it. I will say one thing before we meet. Next time, I guarantee you some highly unexpected and highly impactful thing will occur Way Can we get back to talking about packs or the bachelor way? Don't even We don't even talk about my stack today. Yeah, give it a plug. God e. Just explain to people what he doesn't need a plug. A double today. It's insane. We'll explain what p o. E I p o e is merging with so far. Um, it's an incredible company led

by an incredible CEO. Anthony Noto. You can read a little one page on my website. But anyways, guys, more importantly to all the listeners out there Happy New Year to all of you guys. Let's make 2021 Kick ass. Um, I love you guys. E play poker show. No, look, there's somebody e o Take us out, Young Spielberg, Take us out, Young Spielberg E Well, let your winners ride Rain Man. David Sacks way to the fans and they've just gone crazy with way. Explain it all

. No way should all just get a room and just having one big majority because they're all useless. It's like this, like sexual tension that you just need to release that way.

E16: Reflecting on the riots at the US Capitol, plus: Georgia runoff elections, vaccine distribution & more
E16: Reflecting on the riots at the US Capitol, plus: Georgia runoff elections, vaccine distribution & more
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