All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg

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E9: Trump has COVID, First debate reactions, Coinbase letter response & more

by All-In Podcast, LLC
October 3rd 2020
Hey, everybody. Hey, everybody, Welcome to another. All in podcast. We just got the show notes that I'm ripping them up because the president has the Rhona. We knew this was a possibility. We had an incredible docket brewing. But as fate loves irony, we found out on Wednesday night, I believe, just in a brief timeline here Wednesday night, Hope Hicks, his personal assistant, got Corona. And then, of course, um, President Trump announced late last night that he in fact had Verona and that his, uh, wife Melania also had the coronavirus. So with us today to discuss all things tech politics and coronavirus David Freedberg David Sacks and best piece each moth Palihapitiya are with us. Uh, I guess maybe we'll just drop it right to you. Friedberg you you are are science kid here in the class. What is when we look

at the president's, um, physique? He's clinically obese. Technically, I'm not saying that to be cruel, but he's a 74 year old, is clinically obese and starts Adderall. We don't know that that's just a claim. But seriously, what? What is the prognosis here? And then, uh, my I understand. He's now got a experimental treatment was just announced an hour ago. The taping of this on Friday afternoon and of course, we wish them all the greatest speedy recovery, etcetera. But let's let's get let's get into the facts here. I think the the overall mortality rate for someone of his age is in. Call it batuta. 4% range, right? And for someone with you know, he's not known to have diabetes or high blood pressure. But generally you kind of say there's some risk factors, maybe associate ID eso a couple points. But the reality is, the treatment that he got is one that's not available to the public and is effectively like creating these, you know, taking these antibodies

to the coronavirus. And he got a 8 g off this immunoglobulin therapy. Um, that is basically a bunch of antibodies that will eliminate the virus, and they're not widely available. They're not publicly available these treatments, but, you know, based on the early trials and the general experience with using synthetic and, you know, polygonal antibodies for infectious disease like this, it's pretty effective. And he should kind of, uh, you know, recover pretty quickly. I would imagine so him dying would basically be a two outer. Him getting this special treatment makes it a one outer. If we were talking about this in poker terms cha meth. When you when you look at this turn of events and you saw the news, what was your first thought? Um, that it's now basically 100% guaranteed that we will have all of the most transparent data about coronavirus soon. So, for example, you know, we we've been in this position where we've been

debating hydroxy claure queen. We've been debating these, um, you know all of these different regimens. Onda Reality is the president of the United States. If he doesn't get the absolute top notch care, Um, we're all in some ways fuck. So it's it's probably likely that he's going to get the thing that folks Noto work and then it'll be hard for everybody else. Do not want to ask for that. And then it's going to be even harder for everybody to then not get some version of it. And so I think probably we're going to de escalate a little bit of mask stuff of testing stuff off. You know what the right course of care is and you know, frankly, I'll be honest with you. I hope you know I wouldn't vote for him, but I hope he's well, I don't want anything to happen to the guy. Um and I hope that he recovers and, you know, he kicks it in the ass in that, um, whatever he took to get better, everybody else could get it to alright

, sacks coming around the horn here, talking about the political ramifications of this you were feeling that Trump was likely to lose. But here we are with the October surprise. And I hate to make this handicapping of the election, but this certainly is gonna have some impact. So with your rain man mind, And when you go through this deck of cards here, what does your brain How do you assess this? As, uh, the rain Man? Is this going to be a net positive for his election results? A negative, neutral handicap. This for us in your mind, you must be thinking through this and and and and again, disclaimers. We all want him to get better. Nobody wishes him out. I'm sure some people do, but I'm seeing a lot of glee, Frankly, on Twitter. Yeah. A lot of people saying I told you so. Or karma's a bitch or something like that. Um, you know, sort of implying that Trump getting this was was a moral failing

. You know, um and, you know, certainly a lot of people are kind of rebelling in it. I think he was certainly careless. I mean, he didn't wear masks. He said he didn't like to wear a mask, so Well, I mean, do wear a mask inside your house. No, but if I was in walking around at, ah, debate or something like that, if I was on an airplane with 20 people, Yeah, I would wear a mask. E mean, you know, there were certainly a lot of precautions around the president. I mean, more than most people. I mean, any of us could get it from anybody. You know, if you know, our wife happens to go out to meet a friend for lunch or something like that, and then brings it back. So there's almost no amount of carefulness you could do to completely avoid this. Unless you're willing to kind of lock yourself alone somewhere. Um So I just you know, this idea that somehow getting Cove is a moral failing is is what I would take issue with its not It's not altogether. Unlike the crazy things that the religious right was saying in the 19 eighties

. Like you know about AIDS. Like when you know, Jerry Falwell said it was God's punishment or something like that, trying to imply that gay plague. I mean, let's just call it what it is. They basically said they implied somehow that this was, you know, some sort of, uh, just come up, you know, or something like that tradition from retribution. Exactly. Exactly. And you know, the virus doesn't know who it's infecting. Obviously, it doesn't target sinners or whatever. And so I just think that you know, this all this this sort of gleeful, um, sort of blaming that's going around, um, is inappropriate. And I think it could really backfire if if Trump rapidly gets better. I mean, if Trump is better and say a week on it is hitting the campaign trail again, you know what what previously will have appeared to be a moral failing could, it could not be argued, would be a moral strength since he, you know, overcame it so easily. And you know, So I think that if he rapidly recovers from this and hits the campaign

trail again, it's gonna make him look strong. I think that if he has a hard time with the virus, if it's enervating the way that I think it, it took out Boris Johnson. I mean, I've heard British commentators say that Boris Johnson's just not not even the same doesn't have the same level of energy even now. Then he did behind before the virus. Then I would think it could really hurt Trump in the last, you know, people get this campaign. Look, we I think we all know people. Um, I'm sure you guys do I do who have gone through this and they all say the same thing, which is this thing really sucks. Now there are all these people that say, Oh, it's like dancing on tulips or daffodils. I've never encountered a single person like that. I see that, Um, I see that maybe on Twitter or a friend of a friend, but all of my friends who have gotten it, they have really struggled through it. Some of these people are older. Some of these people are younger. Some of these people are healthy. Some of these people are not, and consistently they say the same thing, which is that there's a couple of days where it literally feels like your chest is being pounded

inside you. You can't move your just in pain. And then afterwards the aftermath is your, you know, 50 60 70% of your lung capacity. Like it, It does some a couple of weeks. I mean, Doc Sands is a friend of ours, and he was very public with his experience. He tried to avoid it as best he could. He got hit with it. He got hit hard and he said he felt like he was going to die with experienced. I have friends that that's still complain to 34 months after the fact that they're at 50 60% of cardiovascular capacity. And you know, these these people that I that I'm specifically thinking about were really healthy, going into coronavirus, and so I don't know, I just think it's something none of us want. I don't think you would want toe wish this on anybody you know, especially frankly, the president of the United States as a role on DSO. I think folks just need to sort of, like, class up here, um, and hope that we figure out, uh, that he gets the best care and then be we all know what it is, and then see that we can get access to it, too. That's

that's honestly I think that's all we should be with you. Come on. Do you see? Do you see the letter they published on what he's getting? So they go ahead and read it with the doctor the doctor published. It was not too long ago, right, Jason? I saw it on your just happened, like an hour ago. I tweeted. It s hey, got 8 g of polygonal antibodies. This is the Regeneron formulation. So basically, they have isolated the antibodies that neutralized coronavirus that patients have presented in their body. And then they use their common and DNA technology to produce those antibodies synthetically. So it's a bunch of antibody proteins, and then they turn it into an injection into a formula that they can put in your body, and you now have effectively neutralizing antibody so they gave him 8 g, which is a pretty high dose, and it gets, you know, goes in intravenously. You can have sometimes an allergic reaction to that, but it seems like he was fine from that because they didn't announce of allergic reaction. And then, you know, the antibodies air now in his bloodstream and they bind to the virus. Any virus that's floating around immediately gets wiped out and gets eliminated from the body. So theoretically

, this is the way we should treat all infectious disease. I do think that, by the way, I do, and I've written about this. I think that is the future of infectious diseases. We're all going to get a holly clonal cocktail every year. Instead of getting a flu shot, you get a bunch of antibodies to all the new stuff that's emerging, and it wants everything about this. David, Just think about this. There was so much raging debate that got politicized between the left between the right between different folks of people who believed in different things around what the right course of care was, there was no single source of truth. I'll just say this again when you treat the president of the United States and he gets better. That is canonical, single source of truth. I'm sorry, but there can be no debate after that. That the smartest people with the access to all of the research I mean, let's be clear. You don't think a call went out last night before they deployed the nuclear warheads stuff to all of the R and D labs and all the big pharma companies and said, What do you got? And the answer came back at the top of the ticket. Was this Regeneron

cocktail? Yeah, they definitely have made that call before to prep for this. But totally great. Now when you say it highlights what the future of infectious disease treatment is and should be, which is that all of us should be getting a booster shot every year of synthetically produced antibodies that will counteract any new infectious disease floating around in the world. And we're getting to the point in the next 10, 15 years that that should be reality for everyone. Well, I think, yeah, it highlights that. But it also highlights that in the absence of the most powerful man in the world, getting the sickness that we're all gonna basically bitch and point fingers about what the right solution is. And so it can't be the case that the next time there's a crazy illness that's floating around in society, we need to go in target, you know, five or six of the leaders of the G eight plus the pope. Plus this. Plus that Beyonce, heaven forbid, you know what I mean. Like, this is crazy. This can't. This can't be how we find single source of truth. Yeah, well

, I think if I think politically speaking, I think there's a lot of upside here for Trump If he does get better in a week. I mean, if if these polygonal antibodies work then and he emerges from the White House, you know, fit as a fiddle in a week, he's going to say the curious here, you know, I was right. We don't need a vaccine. The curious. Here it's over. And, um, and all the I told you so's my might flip around would be from the truth, David. Well, if the political climate, anybody's work, I mean it, then it's just a matter of scaling them. Can it be scale free. Berg. Is this easily scalable? Yes, but by the I'll just point out the challenge with this is a lot of people of north of 15% will have because antibodies remember there a protein. And if yourselves didn't make that protein, they look like a foreign protein when they show up in your body on DSO Very often, When you get a foreign antibody treatment like this, you will have some sort of allergic reaction because your body will react and attack that protein. And so it's not a simple. It's just saying

, Hey, we should just scale this up and give it to everyone because the clinical trials that are going on with it or to figure out what percentage of people what's the right way to treat people? What's the right way toe? Protect them from an AFL Actiq shock, all that sort of stuff that comes along with this sort of thing. So it's not that simple. It's friedberg. We're making it up. You would admit that many of those questions, he answered the answers to many of those questions must have been well in hand because there's just zero way Oh, General has been running these trials since March. 100%. Yeah, 100% right? They what they I I can tell you for sure. When Trump got this treatment, I guarantee they gave him Benadryl and they gave him a steroid shot. And they probably gave a little bit of cortisone or they had it on the side because that's kind of like the standard sort of regimen you would use when you get this sort of, you know, synthesized or or convalescent plasma type treatment. And, you know, he comes out of this thing on the other end and he's fine. Um, but but But that treatment regimen is required. So it's, you know, you sit down in an ivy booth and you get a fucking I V, and you get shots to go along with it. So it's not a

simple it's just shipping it out everyone's home and giving them that treatment, you know, and only am I correct that Onley 300 or so people have gotten this to date? Is that correct? With the try? I don't know the answer to that. I know that convalescent plasma, which is called the poor man's version of this treatment, which is, instead of synthesizing the antibodies, you're taking the actual antibodies from other people that have had covert and recovered. You're isolating those antibodies and you're injecting them in other people's bodies. So that is what convalescent plasma Isett is, effectively a soup of all the antibodies from recovered patients. Holly clonal antibodies is the synthesized version of those isolated antibodies where we used fermentation systems and bio engineered cells to make those antibodies. Then we isolate them and we and we use. Is there any chance that the president would make a bad decision here because he would get to dictate his treatment as a powerful person like Steve Jobs did? Tragically, I saw a doctor saying, This is one of the problems with powerful people is that they actually can

, you know, make a bad decision because doctors will let them have too much of us saying, Is that possible? In this situation, you think I think the answer is no, because they didn't put out a letter saying he got bleach and UV like eso. He didn't go with his own treatment protocol on and also oh God, no, I was just gonna say and also, you know, it eliminated all of the other, less nonsensical but equally sort of question mark treatments. And so, you know, I think they went right to the answer, which would only have been really possible if the best stocks basically said, this is what we're doing. And I think David mentioned this earlier that it had been decided well, in advance, E z. There's a There's a protocol that was written down months ago, vetted and re vetted, probably every week or every month as they get as they got more data. And so the minute it happened, there was nothing to talk about. And I and I suspect that that is probably what happened, because there is no way you'd want to be. You know, it's kind of like being a pilot like you follow

a systematic set of rules to deal with the overwhelming majority of boundary conditions. And this seemed like a pretty obvious boundary condition. You would have wanted to have a protocol for well in advance. So Okay, so I want to just do one handicapping here. Saks will have you take this one off the bat because this was the chatter on Twitter number one. Uh, the first two, I think, are just crazy conspiracy. There is. He got her on purpose or he's lying. Put those aside for a second. You can answer them if you want Thio. But the third one is, Hey, what happens if he's incapacitated and cannot run? Or, God forbid, he died? Uh, Andi. So if he's on a ventilator, if he cannot leave the hospitals and I see a not even a question, the 25th Amendment deals with eso, it goes to pence. And if Pence cannot do it for whatever reason, But he's, I think he's okay. I was I was actually gonna refer to the election, though. What happens to the election if in the next 34 weeks he's in I c U. What happens then that I don't know. Well, E would assume it's up to the party toe to make

a change to his ballot if they wanted to, but I think if he's in the i c u, he stays on the ballot, so we would literally have an election with him on a ventilator or him. I mean, if he was unconscious, could he could people still go vote for him. I think there is a possibility. I think these are very low probability outcomes. I think the most. I think the most likely outcome here is that because he's got the best care, Um, he's, you know, it's it's probably like at least 50% that this is over for him. In about a week on git redounds to his political advantage, I think there's probably, uh, 40% chance that you know, he's got more like a three or four week case, which I think would hurt him because he's been able to campaign. And then there's maybe like a five or 10% chance of something more serious. I wonder if he's got If you even if he recovers in a week, the odds are pretty high that he'll have, you know, a long tail of fatigue, right? And so if he if he doesn't change his if he changes his strategy and just does things

remotely and whatnot, doesn't do rallies anymore, Um, you know, and he doesn't really come out and say he's cute, but there's this behavioral change. Does that change things? Do you think I think he needs to build a campaign on hold these rallies. I think that's an essential part of his, uh, election strategy. But also, it's always been his way of, you know, going over the heads of the media that that hates him and talking directly to people and rallying his base and field testing his ideas. There was that period went during lockdowns when he just stopped doing rallies for several months, and it really felt like he was adrift. Um, so, yeah, I think if you can't do rallies, I think, you know that could easily swing the election a couple of points and cause them to lose. I think sexy pose 100% right. I was in Indiana last week and there were ah, bunch of folks in the neighborhood where I was staying and I was walking my dog and they were walking. Their dogs were all kind of walking side by side, and they all were ramping up to go to a Trump rally

. They were super excited about this, this moment to go hear what he has to say. They sounded like they were kind of in this undecided camp, but they wanted to go to the rally to hear what he had to say and kind of experience that trump moment. It was a really kind of ground level. Um, I think Proofpoint for your for your statement around like, you know, people really need to feel and because that's a big part of his His kind of m o is that Grandma It is. And I think it was one of the reasons why his no one saw his election coming in 2016 is if you turned on the TV and just listen toe the commentators. I mean, aside from maybe Fox, um, it seemed like everyone just hated him. But if you attended the rallies, you would see that he was reaching a lot of people tens of thousands of people at each event. And he was flying around doing three events a day tremendously energetic. Just, um so, yeah, I think it's it would hurt him a lot. But look, if he's back on the stump a week from now, you're probably gonna see all sorts of people on the right saying, you know, I told you so, and

God healed him, and you know he must be the chosen one or, you know, way could be seeing a weekend at Bernie's moment here. Way a way, even if you just tired will prop him up on a big stick and hold him up in front of crowds and then put him back in the airplane and flying back home. I think I don't know if he's if he's too tired, because, you know, he gets up there and he talks for, like, an hour and a half. I mean, he's done two or three. Yeah, it's like a half is short for him. Yeah. Is it possible we could be talking about Trump having less energy than Biden in a debate, which I think is a good segue here? Are there going to be two more presidential debates? And what was our take on the absolutely embarrassing shit show that we saw on Tuesday night? Which was supposed to be the topic today that we're gonna lead off, which was the debate which seems unimportant now. It feels like a year ago. How do you expect us to comment on something that happened so long ago? 72 hours ago. Come on. Oh, my God

. It feels like years. 2020. It's so exhausting. I think 30 years in one year like that debate, that debate was just a Dumpster fire. You know, the way that I thought about it was not true. E it was. It was a disaster for Trump. It was a disaster for Trump explained, because he's your boy. Are you now not gonna vote for him after that Disick clarify for the audience? I'm not I'm not pro Trump. I'm just anti voting. I'm anti hysteria. I always support the side That seems least hysterical to me at any given time. Did you vote for Trump last election? Yes or no? Would you be comfortable? I e think you'd be surprised if I told you I voted for But okay. So onto the debate, I think both Biden and Trap Biden and Trump both had a trap to avoid. I think Biden's trap was appearing senile. I think Trump's trap was appearing unhinged. I would say that Biden avoided

his trap and Trump did not by constantly attacking Biden interrupting him. Uh, it was counterproductive. I mean, what you want to do with Biden was let the man talk. He's a gaffe machine, you know, let him talk, let him say things that will get him in trouble instead, by Constant interrupting him. Trump kind of let him off the hook and eso it's now, look, I mean both of their bases. Uh, you know, it's like it's like a sporting event. There's gonna root for the side. They already came Thio to support, but I don't think Trump helped himself with a few percent of independents who are still out there, you know, looking to make a decision, I think you're totally right. It was it was really surprising because if he had just left him to his own devices, you would have let it play out. But I thought Biden, to be honest, there were some moments he was fabulous, so I thought he was excellent on race. I thought he was incredible in the moment that he basically stood up to trump about his son, Hunter, and he looks in the camera and he basically says, Look, I love my son. My sons had troubles

and I support I mean amazing. And so, like in those moments, it's so hard to not see that guy as presidential and I dont meaning like It's easy for Democrats or people that are voting for him like me. But I think if you were a Republican, you gotta look at that guy and say, Man, that is a decent dude. I thought he had. He did. He did. He did. In certain key moments, he did fabulously well. And in other moments where there were traps, he actually got built up because Trump kept interrupting and Joe was smart enough to stop talking so that it amplified the sense that Trump was interrupting him. Trump, to me, seemed pathetic and scared. That was my like, He's scared of losing. He felt like a bully who had been, like, laughed at by the whole class like nobody takes him seriously like the moderator. What's his name? Chris Wallace. Chris Wallace. The moderator was kind of like What are you doing, sir? Please e think Chris Wallace. I mean, I know people are critical of him, but Chris Wallace is like, Sir, please, just trying to appeal to, like, basic

decency and Trump just not getting it made Trump look so bad. It's just, I think, confirmed with people, say the demographic he has to win his white women in a lot of these swing states. I mean, I don't think women want to vote. I'm not gonna speak for a women here, but my understanding is women don't like guys like that who interrupt constantly and who are belligerent and badgering. And they kind of like a great dad who defended to your point Sheymov, you know his son and said, Hey, listen, my son's got problems. My other son died, were here. I really think, I really think and I and I and we talked about this a little bit before. But the surface area, in terms of policy between the Republicans and the Democrats, now are virtually non existent. So look, if you unpack foreign policy, they both hate Russia. They both hate China. They both need India, and the Middle East is irrelevant because we're moving to a carbon neutral, alternative energy world. They also don't need Russia as an example. So all

of this stuff that used to matter before in so much of the foreign policy that dictate how Americans would fight wars, spend money, you know, insight, democracy, protect certain leaders. It's all out the window and they both think about it the same way because the surface area is so uh, similar. That's not what about, what about the economy? And so Number two, similar to so number two Economically, they're so similar because they both want to spend trillions of dollars just under a different label. You know, one is sort of under a green New deal, and the other is called an infrastructure bill or whatever it is. And then number three. They will both have the same Federal Reserve that is tied to the hip of Treasury, who has already committed to be trillions of dollars a year in Hawk backing up all the debt that basically exists. And so if you put all these things together, it's a popularity contest. And this is why I think Joe Biden has an advantage because in a popularity contest where you're just picking the figure that you would, you know, either have a beer with or feel the most comfortable with. There's an element of this, which is like it's just a decent human

being. It's easier for Biden to get that across than it is for Trump, and when Trump behaves that way, it just violates some simple rules of decency like they were in the debate against Hillary Clinton. He didn't act this way, and he was mawr. Um uh, It was like watching like a show like you were kind of like tuning in to see what the theatrics would be or in the debates in the primaries in 2016 against the Republicans. It was theatrical here. It was just It was it was just kind of not. It was It was pretty sex in that way. Sacks. You think the Democrats put up the right candidate? Because if you did put up Elizabeth Warren, if you did put up a Bernie Sanders or God forbid both of them at the same time, it would be a very stark contrast. You would have the socialist ticket that wants to, you know, band the billionaires and stop capitalism and kneecap it and spend a bunch of money on redistribution of wealth. And here Biden doesn't. He's never said redistribution of wealth. He's

never said Ban the billionaires. He's pro capitalism. Feels like a safer bet, too. The majority of Americans that they did, the Democrats actually do a good job putting Biden up there. I think so. I think he is the most now that we know he's not senile. I mean, I think there was some real question about that going into the debate. I think he proved in that debate that he's not on. Do you know he's always kind of had the decency card that Jamal talks about? Um, now that we know he's not seen all I think he's. He is the Democrats most electable candidate because he is more centrist than certainly in Elizabeth Warren or some other candidacy you mentioned. Elizabeth Warren would have moved the election to be about substance, and it's in many ways strategically. No, but think about this. If you basically converge on roughly the same strategy with different labels, you make the election one of style. And there are a lot of people who really want decency back in the presidency Mawr so than they want anything

else because they already come into the election with the level of skepticism. That policy A won't change that fast and B to the extent it changes doesn't affect them. And so you know, for years we've been electing people we like, and this is probably the most extreme test of that idea. I think I think there was like I mean, like, if you think about that debate, you could probably simplify it down into the audience. Being part of three camps, they either know who they're voting for. Trump. They know who they're voting for, Biden and then some folks who are kind of maybe that they're changeable. And for the folks that are changeable, the there's a diversity of objectives, right? There's some folks who care about the decency, some folks who care about policy. But at the end of the day, I think, um, you go into this debate with an expectation of Trump and an expectation of Biden. And I would say that Trump was flat to down relative to expectation and Biden was flat toe up, and so that's where I would kind of give the ticker toe. I'm sorry, I don't wanna interrupt, but I just

want to read you this headline. President Trump will be admitted to Walter Reed Medical Center on Friday for a few days. Yeah, I read that. Hold on a second. His, uh well, his doctor said it's because they're out of an abundance of caution. They just wanna have him in a place where he could be created. If and as he needs it, that made you buy that a cover story, I think that Look, if you don't buy that, I think he's in trouble. Jason. It is. It is very strange when you get a treatment when you get a treatment like he got today, you know, 8 g of immunoglobulin therapy like that. It sucks. Uh, I've had this treatment. I've had immunoglobulin therapy before and you get knocked out your on all these steroids. You're on all this anti allergy stuff. You're a mess for a day or two and you know, you want to get like I V s and stuff that give you all sorts of stuff to go with it. I gotta imagine that after getting that therapy, he's going to need to be in some degree of care. And I would imagine it's probably better to just do that around doctors and with all

the equipment than trying, you know, kind of bring everything into the White House. So I don't read it as negatively, but well, I mean, do you think it could be like anaphylactic shock. You might be having some reaction. Yeah, totally. Like I said, a large percentage of people that get these antibody therapies have some sort of allergic response. It's all the way from anaphylactic Thio. Hey, I'm having my throat's closing. Hey, I feel I'm getting flushed. I'm getting a fever. There's all sorts of ways that this can kind of present. So the world is changing so fast that we can't even complete a podcast without it being obsolete. Can I tell you one other thing? Um, what did you guys think about the fact this is a little more bit So you can we can choose not to talk about it. But the stock market basically did nothing today on the news that the most important person in the free world theoretically, um, I think you just answered your own question. A tomato I could chime in on this one is I don't think that people perceive that Trump is good or bad for the economy

. Either way, that the economy has separated now from politics because they think Biden or Trump are gonna have the same policies which you said before they have the same policy So why does it matter if Trump or two tragically die? It would not make a difference in the American economy is not gonna affect people buying iPhones. It might shake people psychologically, but I don't think in a massive way because he's almost out of office. So I think it's all baked in. That's why the market did you and what do you think sex. I wanted to disagree slightly with The idea of this election Doesn't matter. Um, I think it will matter a lot if the Democrats win the Senate as well as the presidency, because then they will have one party control and they could pass much legislations they want. And I think a lot of things will get signed. And I think the Biden presidency could be very consequential, at least for two years. While all this legislation has passed, even if you know he's not, you know, out in front, saying very much, I mean the significance will be in the pen to sign the legislation if the Republicans hold onto the Senate. But Biden wins the presidency. I

agree with you that it's not gonna be a tremendously consequential election because we'll have gridlock in divided government again. And so I think a lot hinges on whether Biden wins with or without the Senate. I don't disagree with you. The only thing that I will say is that I think that Biden will drag the country, especially if it's, ah, you know, up and down Democratic ticket back to the eighties and nineties more to the sort of the George Baker School of Diplomacy and Governance. And I think that if I I don't know him to know this. But I think that if he really were toe have a legacy, I'm just I I would suspect that part of again because he's mentioned that, you know, why did he run? He said the pivotal moment was like Charlottesville in Trump's reaction to Charlottesville. I think Biden is really moored by this concept of decency, and I think that if if he were there and he thought to himself, I'm going to be here for four years because that's the right responsible thing to do, but no more. Um

, I don't think that you're going to see a bunch of crazy legislation passed. I think Biden's going to say Guys, this is what I expect to dio, by the way, did you? Because And I think I would bet on that because of what he said at the beginning of the debate. He's like, I am the Democratic Party. I don't know if you guys remember that, remember that That was incredible. That was That was a very Darth Sidious emperor move when he said no, no, no, he was I think he was trying to basically say, like, firewall the far left or the far left the Socialist left and say that rhetoric is not what I was elected on. I was elected on my platform. I am the party. This is what I believe and everybody else will have to toe the line. And by the way, in the end, that's not such a bad thing. Yeah, e I I agree. I think that that was a really important moment for him Is for him to say, Look, I'm in charge here because the Republicans have been making the argument that he is a Trojan horse for all these, like, far left elements. Eso

It's very it was very important for him to come forward and say No, I'm the one leading this ticket now, that being said and I think it would be a great thing for the country if Biden brought the Democratic Party back toe mawr of ah, you know Bill Clinton toe, you know, Obama type centrism or, you know, Senator leftism. I guess you could say, as opposed to this sort of like crazy, you know, wot Marxism or Maoism whatever you wanna call it. Um, but I'm very skeptical that he will, because I think Biden has always positioned himself throughout his career as being at the center of the Democratic Party, and I think he moves. Is the Democratic Party moves? I agree he's not gonna be all the way to the left of the Democratic Party. But those left elements will drag his sort of center thio further to the left and we'll end up with sort of, ah, compromise. And I think at the end of the day, if the Democrats win Congress, he'll sign whatever they pass. I'm not so sure, I really I really I'm not so sure

The White House is ah, not that far away. It looks like it's a 30 minute drive from Walter Reed sending a helicopter. Is that normal? Because he drove there last time. Would that be indicative of this is an emergency type situations sending Marine one as opposed to just driving there for 20 minutes. I think they look they, you know, there'd be a lot of liability if he had an actual medical emergency and they were just like, Yeah, we're going to send him for a few days out of an abundance of caution. The fact that they set out of an abundance of caution. I think if there is an emergency, you can't get away with saying that. Oh, you can for sure they would lie. I don't know. It'll come out. Trump administration was above lying about situation trees unconscious. They got to swear. Pencil. Yeah, there's a lot of reasons why you gotta be careful. I'm not saying he's unconscious. I'm just saying it. It is sending Marine one like I'm just thinking out loud. Here is sending a helicopter for a 20 minute ride in a motorcade like

seems a little e would take a helicopter to the 7 11 if I had a helicopter, a your take a helicopter daddio. Okay, let's This is I think a good jumping off point. Thio An interesting discussion that blew up on Twitter earlier this week, which is? We can't keep up with all the politics, the rhetoric, the vitriol in this polarization. So Coin based co founder and CEO Brian Armstrong wrote a letter saying, Hey, listen, if you want to talk about politics, that's fine. Not at my company anymore. We're gonna have no politics rule, no debating the stuff and we're going to be ultra ultra Focus, focus. I'm sorry at work. Um, and you can check your politics at the door when you read this. Sacks, you've come out in support of Brian Armstrong. What was your take on his position about? Leave your politics at

the door when you get to work, right? Well, I think I think What? Bryant. So I I did. I did complimented his his manifesto, and I think are you an investor? I am. I'm a small investor in coin base, Um and, uh, and I'm friendly with Brian, and so I certainly, you know, like the idea of of defending him against unfair attacks, But, um, I also genuinely like the manifesto. Andi, I think you know his argument kind of boils down toe. Three components. I think Number one, that having these debates on every issue, whatever the issue de jour is, pulls the company's focus away from its core mission, which he really emphasized. And you know that Mission Mission is challenging enough in its own right. Um, second, he was saying that and something I've said before as well, which is just that politics is just increasingly divisive in our society. It's just inherently divisive, and therefore it's corrosive to team cohesion. And the more you have of that in your company

, the worse it is for, you know, the team. And I think the third thing he mentioned which I thought was really interesting is that the freewheeling debate of our discussion of politics, you know, like like that we're having here. But we kind of have our own little safe zone here. It risks hurt feelings or misunderstandings that could become HR issues because people can then complain about they they feel unsafe and their reports. And so that's a further discussion. For the moment in this podcast, I'll be honest. There was a E, I think one of the reasons why this pod sort of works is because we're all we're all friends and we've created a safe space for us to have these conversations. But the workplace is very different. It's not, you know, And what I read Brian trying to do is to re impose a true safe space by saying, Leave your politics at the door Now I think he's been deliberately misconstrued by by critics who want to say that. What? You have to leave your conscience at the door. You know that's not true. He's

not saying that you can't have your own political views or contribute Thio causes that you like, But you just got to do it on your own time. Kind of like Mr Handset and Fast Times at Ridgemont High. You know, like, do that on your own time. Andi, that makes sense to me. I think, like I mean, look, I think about this from the point of view of one of the employees working at one of these companies that doesn't want to be a party to the debate. Um, if I'm an engineer at Google or coin base, I go into work and I am captive, right? I don't have the option of not showing up toe work. If I goto a rally, I have the option of saying I'm gonna go to this rally and walk away because I don't like the speaker or I'm gonna go to the rally because I want to participate in this dialogue or this debate. I can't do that at work. So it's unfair for work, which is a place that I, as an employee, have to go to every day to be a forum for people to express themselves on political points that I may or may not agree with, but more importantly

, may or may not want to actually be a party to the discussion around Andi. I think that's the most important thing to note here is like It's not about enabling the free speech of the employees that want a debate. It's about the protecting the workspace for the employees that don't want a debate and don't want to be exposed to that. Andi, that's really important as Jamaat is a person of color who, you know have. I'm sure some has some shrunk feelings about what we've seen in terms of police shootings or maybe in your own personal life experience facing racism, uh, again, as a person of color, what are your thoughts on the workplace? Is it is it possible for you to leave that at the door? That was the criticism, I think I saw from the, you know, people who were supportive of BLM, and they said the background here was they were trying to get Brian to explicitly say black lives matter and to, you know, have the company rally behind that on. But he didn't. He didn't

want to have that be part of the work environment and that he was offering people 4 to 6 months severance if they would leave if they don't like the new rules. So what are your thoughts? I think that this whole thing became a quagmire unnecessarily. I think that he showed ah, lot of naive ity. Um, and frankly, like, um, a little bit of stupidity. Really. Um, it was really poorly written Onda. That's why it's been so misunderstood and misconstrued. In my opinion, I think a lot of what he had to say was valid. But when it was so poorly presented, and you know, the the essay was like, eight minutes and it was rambling. And the mission was like, you know, 97% down on the you know, And it's just like it was a convoluted fucking mess. So if I had to do it again, if I were him or if I was his adviser and he had asked me, you know, to proof read the essay. What I would have said is more of the following, which is our mission, which is, you know, I think to create

financial liberty or something. Something like that. You guys can find out what it is for The whole world is unbelievably important. We will talk about every issue through the lens of achieving our mission, and we will be disciplined about saying which things matter in which things don't. So, for example, if somebody says, Listen, I really believe in spaying and Neutering dogs. The right answer shouldn't be Hey, shut the fuck up. It says, Okay, Um, how does that allow us to maximize our users? How does that allow us to achieve our mission? Why does it allow us to achieve our mission? And if you ask the question, why four or five times in the very first principles way you'll get to the answer. So I would have rather said, We're going to train people how to understand what builds up to our mission and what is otherwise something that you should leave at home. And in that context, there are a lot of things, actually that our political that need to be brought

especially into a company like Coin Base, which is working in crypto, which is all about eliminating the financial barriers of people that don't have access to it. Like you are trying to dismantle an extremely exclusionary part of the economy. And so there are potentially many movements that matter. And those movements in countries in which you will want to gain users may look like political movements. Well, that was Jack Dorsey's point. He uh so I just think Yeah, so I just think it was It was It was kind of a two super fit. It was very Silicon Valley s reaction. It was emotional. Um, it was a little insecure, and to me, it missed the mark because there was a lot of validity and what he was saying, but presented in a kind of in a lens of, you know, Silicon Valley bullshit, and it was not well thought through. So if he had rewritten it and he had said 99% of what he said, but through

the lens of why we're going to think about it first principles way of defining how everything ladders into the mission. He will train his employees instead. What he created was a schism and a decision point. And I'm not sure that that's how you maximize value in 2020 as a CEO, because at the end of the day you have to deal with an entire population cohort that is, that are in their twenties, early thirties teenagers that will eventually wanna work for you. And whether we like it or not, they're different and one of the things you need to do if you're going to run an enormous companies, understand the psychology of your employees, understand the psychology of how movements and decisions are organized and then play the wind. And it's no different than anybody else. If you want to be in the job, you know, to be the starting point guard for the Warriors, you got to know how to fucking pass the ball. And if you're gonna be the power forward, you have to know how to do a certain set of things that are different than that. And so I would sort of have framed it there because I think there was ah lot of goodness in what he said, but

presented in a pretty shitty manner. I think it's good he brought up the topic. I do think there's a tactical issue here, and he he could have laid out the ground rules for, I think to your point, the mouth of how we should talk about politics at work and what are the ground rules? I think the number one issue here, which people don't talk about, is that slack. An email and forums inside of companies have created a massive distraction, and when somebody goes into the random channel, which is built into slack, and I know this is in the weeds, but I have seen this happen at multiple companies. Now, Slack infects a company. Somebody creates a room about a topic, whether it's trump or police violence or immigration, whatever it is, and then people want to sound off on that, and now you've got an Elektronik form, where people are talking about highly charged issues that makes people feel unsafe. And so what? I told my company's waas, the two companies you could talk about politics. If you want to go for a walk with somebody and have coffee

or lunch and you wanna have a two hour discussion about it, go for it. Please do not put this in Elektronik form because it's a massive distraction on there'll be a record that could create downstream. Human resource is issues, So your reports acts. I have a suggestion, and this is an organizational design experiment. And maybe somebody listening will implemented their company. Allow 100% free form debate about anything. One condition you literally need to have a soapbox. And, like in the 18 eighties Hyde Park in London, you put the soap box someplace in a safe space where you can go and you can talk and people who want to listen well, listen. And people who need to work on work and people who don't want to listen don't have to be forcefulness. What's the What's the What's the digital version of that that you're suggesting a literal room campus, a literal place in your office. You put the soap, you have a soapbox, you grab it, you put it on the ground, you stand on it and you say it. And if you're not willing to do that, then you know it's Are you saying that there's

no digital version of that? Because you what I'm saying is that two things one is the digital version is actually training people to ask Why Why does it matter now? The reason why it's important to ask that is because somebody may say I'll use Jason's example that he loves. We need to support the wingers in China. The best way to do that is to proliferate our software in the following way because it will free them from in save mint of the Chinese and will give them access to financial independence. Wow. I mean, okay, that seems to be paying off the mission. So if you were, if so, you gotta give freedom for people to come up with these ideas because it made the first version of this idea may may not actually be what the final version is in the final version. Maybe the killer feature. So on the digital forum in the slacks. It should be. Why respects? And that's a very respectful questions. Why shouldn't it? Should not be in any digital for him because it leads to chaos. Because we see that on Twitter

. And what's happening is the Twitter derangement that we all suffer from is now infected inside the community. Three communication system that runs the operating system of the company. Go ahead exactly. Yeah, that that e O Jacob on this one. So, look, I mean, Joe mouth is right that I'm sure I'm sure your mouth would have written a better letter. But I think we understand the gist of what Brian was trying to say. And actually, I thought it took a lot of courage toe to write it. And what he's basically saying is that politics has become so divisive in our society that e it would be nice if we could have these reasonable debates the way that we're having this discussion inside cos we didn't have toe have these artificial restrictions, but we do We have toe, you know, it's the same reason you know that we have the separation of church and state is because people couldn't stop killing each other over religious wars. And so finally we had, you know, the Treaty of Westphalia to stop it. And what Brian's basically proposing is a is a treaty for the workplace because we cannot get along around politics. But David, he is the CEO of an $8

billion company. Could he not have hired somebody to edit? That s a Okay, well, I mean, look, I just to me, it seems like if its meaning, if it's seriously well, thought through and and if it was as important as West failure, you would probably have a couple of proofreaders. Corporate corporate version, Okay, it could have been polished for sure. Here is Jack Dorsey's response, and I'll have you guys respond to it. I think it's in your wheelhouse in terms of what you said, Jamaat Bitcoin, a k a crypto is direct activism against an unverifiable and exclusionary financial system which definitely affect so much of our society important to at least acknowledge and connect the related societal issues your customers face daily. This leaves people behind. I I think he's right. You have to view this problem not through the lens of your own emotions, not even through the lens of the frustrations of your employees. You have to help shift the discussion to say, Why does this achieve our mission? And just constantly in a thoughtful, respectful way, Ask why, and

by the fourth or fifth why it will either be something that doesn't matter, and you can dismiss it quickly, or something that actually is rooted in fact and probably is something you need to pay attention to. And maybe the way that the conversation started was probably not with the right language that people, given the chance would have framed it different. Okay, the worst take according to the Internet, Twitter's ability to ratio people, which is when you get more comments than likes, which is not normally how it works. People actually taking the time to explain to you how bad your take was, as opposed to liking it, is what a ratio is, if you don't know goes to dicus alot moose, a friend of ours. Me first capitalists who think you can separate society from business are going to be the first people lined up against the wall and shot in the revolution. I'll be, I mean, That's a that's enough to get you ratio didn't have this thing goes supernova. I mean, Mike Simonovic is retweeting this and losing

like his mind over it. You know that the former CEO of Twitter is inciting violence. He's a comedian as well to Costello. So I think he's joking here. And But he adds the punk, the exclamation point. I'll happily provide video commentary. Here's here's Here's My disagreement with With Dick and with Jack is ultimately the societal value of a company doesn't come from whatever platitudes or political statements ASIO makes, but rather from the quality of its products and the impact of its products. And in that sense, Dick and Jack are living in a glass house. I mean, Twitter is a sewer of political diatribe and polemical hate. You know, it's I don't know anyone who feels better, you know, after spending time on Twitter, you know, if if Facebook is like cigarettes, you know, I I don't know what Twitter is. I mean, it's like fentanyl or something. Yeah, so So So ultimately, you know, maybe

Jackson spent his time figuring out how to make Twitter into a less socially divisive product. Instead of, you know, because just issuing work platitudes is not going to do it. I agree with the I agree with that. I don't think platitudes does it. All I'm saying is you have to view it through the lens of I want to become the most relevant company possible and achieve the most impact. And I think that there are a lot of times where some of these issues, when presented politically underlying it, is actually some feature or some capability or some way of seeing the problem that unlocks more demand that can help you in and not knowing a priority. What the answers to those questions are. It's important to train people on a framework versus say, you can't talk because I guarantee you what will happen is somebody with some killer feature will be too scared to say something because they're not sure how to say it well. And you and I both know because we've seen many companies that have gone through that cycle, those companies decay and die. Yeah

, I think it be great if a policy like this wasn't necessary. I mean, it's I agree it's suboptimal, but I think it's it's caused by the fact that people just can't get along around politics anymore. Friedberg What is your take on? Ultimately, how coin base winds up the year or two after this, Do they get Mawr resumes of hyper talented people who want to embrace a politics social issue, free work place or to millennials? And you know Gen Z and this next group of talented folks say, I don't wanna work for somebody who doesn't want to talk about these issues at work and then at the production word where you have a factory where you build companies, Do you have some rule around this yourself or thoughts about how you run your companies? I think the more clearly you define culture, the more successful your company will be, and right or wrong about whether or not you enable the debate in

the discussion and how you define the forums for kind of political discussion within your company. The fact that there is a clear definition of delineation around this point, I think, removes the uncertainty, and I think he'll do exactly what he's hoping to do, which is to get people to leave and to attract other people that that better fit with that cultural model. I wanna put my game face on. I wanna goto work and I wanna win the game. I'm here to play. I'm not here to fuck around. I'm not here to do other stuff. I want this job because I believe in this mission. And I want this company to succeed in what it's trying to dio and I think other places that allow people to run around and, you know, do things that they may or may not appreciate other people doing. Or you have this kind of low definition kind of culture where some people are happy. Some people are unhappy. It all kind of, you know, slows things down and and and I wouldn't kind of encourage anyone toe what that happened. I think it's really important to just define how it is you want to operate. He really clear

about the rules and the boundaries and then, um that that I that I agree with as well, I mean, I think its very much within his right, and I think it. But I do applaud his courage in doing it. I just think that it misses the mark because I think it was too emotional. I think he could do a 2.0 version and just keep building on the manifesto and say, Hey, based on the feedback I got, Here's how we're going to do it. No discussion here on the location. Reed. Hastings put out that fantastic, uh, power point that I think we all know really well. Cultural playbook from Netflix. And when did he put that out? Like to almost a decade ago. No, two decades ago was 2000, 2001, and he's continued to refine it. Right? If you look at this recent iterations of it and they continue to kind of do a better job of defining, um, you know, how do they intend to operate with people? Um, and I think it's, uh it's only continue to reinforce the innovation that that drives that company in tow. The $100 billion plus valuation ITT's earned. Yes, And if you if there's one important thing, which

is that there's a meaningful difference in the average age of a Netflix employees and the average age of a Silicon Valley company, now that maybe also part of it as well, I think the One thing that Brian could clarify is that you don't have to check your conscience at the door. You it's not We're not saying that you can't have political views. You're allowed toe, say things on Twitter or take political stands or donate to wherever you want. It's just that the company itself is gonna be a demilitarized zone, you know, we're not gonna bring We're not gonna bring these contentious, divisive debates that really aren't related to our core mission inside the company. So we can all work better. So we can all work better as a team towards the reason that we all joined this company. But that's totally fair. But, you know, while I'm saying all I'm saying again, I'll just say it again. That is such an important thing to say. You could have had a proof for it a couple times you didn't. Could've been, Could've come across the way. You're saying it didn't have to be written by GPT three. You know what I mean? S also I think that it was the dunk

he did afterwards where he's like And by the way, if you don't like it, here's four months severance. Get the fuck out. That was a pretty aggressive move as well. I don't know how you guys felt e kind of like the gangster nature e. I think it's great. It's like if I'm on the team and I believe in what he just said, I feel great that he's flushing the shit out. And if I don't agree with it, it's like Fuck you, I'll take it. You know, like it's it's really clear, I think 100%. The clear cut definition of culture is what every company needs to kind of pursue, and it's an ongoing pursuit, and you can always do a better job with it. And culture is what you choose not to do as much as it is what you dio talk about politics. Brooke is totally right. It takes a lot of courage to say, Here's what I believe and if you don't if you don't believe in it, then it's okay for you to leave. And here's a severance package that takes a lot of courage. So I applaud him for that. Yeah, I mean, look, it's a free country and we all have limited time. We should all go work on the mission that is most important and inspiring. Tow us and coin base has a very specific mission that Brian's

defining. He's trying to find it clearly. And if that mission is important and inspiring to you, then go work there. And if it's not, then go work at the place that you know where that you know where the mission doesn't inspire you. And it may be a startup. Or maybe, you know, a political organization. Whatever it is, Go, go do that thing that's most meaningful to you. That's kind of my interpretation of what he was saying. Alright, as we wrap here, it was hard for me to interpret because it was so poorly written. Well, also there. I mean, it was also like a huge bomb on Twitter, and people's reaction to it was based upon. I think, how they feel at this moment in time, and a lot of people feel that's why I'm sorry. But communications is important. How you say things, what you say style is really important. Whether it's time to take the time. Get it right? Yeah. Alright. So 2021 is going to be upon us before we know it and I wanted to wrap here with each of your feelings on, uh, the economy. A technology and politics

, economy, technology, politics. How do you feel about 2021? Are you optimistic? Pessimistic. Neutral on those economy politics? Have you guys ever been to Magic Mountain or Disneyland? You everything. You're getting one of those log rides and it's like raging rapids or roaring waters or whatever they're called, and it's just fucking like you hop in. And those things that takes off down the river e don't know nothing. Summarize this stuff better for May, but in so many ways, is that where I feel we are right now? We've all jumped out a bunch of fucking logs and we're shooting down this rapid river. Andi, I think a big part of what I'm feeling and Thomas is in the middle of this. But there is this extraordinary velocity of capital right now. And when I say that, I just mean capital is moving in large amounts very freely, and that creates, like, once in a generation kind of opportunity. It's in part because the Fed has dropped interest rates to zero. So there's all these trillions

of dollars Moving markets. There's a change in outlook in the world is being shifted in so many ways. This is this really amazing moment that I think we can all be afraid of because we're on a fucking roaring rapid on a log trying to stay afloat. But there is so much happening, uh, in these markets that we kind of operate in. There's never been a better time to get your business funded or to take your company public or toe get customers to make quick decisions and change their behavior. Whether they're consumer or enterprise, customer money and decisions they're happening at a money is moving at a faster pace than we've ever seen, and decisions are happening at a faster pace than we've ever seen. Um, that's my general sentiment. I don't think it stops going into 2021. There's just another kind of floodgate about to open with this election, one way or the other. But these were in the middle of this kind of raging rapids right now, and it za pretty. It's a pretty scary but also kind of exciting kind of time. It's so it's so well, said Keane. Well, I really agree with you. I think that it's

kind of like if you used to take, um, a second to make a $1 decision and a minute to take $100 decision theme out of money being flooded into the economy now allows you to make $100 decision in a second right, select the order of magnitude of the mental barrier that it takes has changed. And I agree with you. I was thinking earlier this week that, um, it's really incredible time to be alive for one very in one very specific way, which is obviously there's stuff that's happening that's really turbulent. But there is a chance that a bunch of us can really, um, like, change things in a meaningful way. And, um, I find it exciting. So I'm generally, like I'm super bullish on the economy, super bullish on tech. Andi, I think I'm actually kind of like, reasonably optimistic

about politics. I think that we're gonna find our civility soon. Um and, uh and I don't know why that's going to happen or how it's going to get triggered. Um, but I think honestly, like the election of Biden, um will go such a long way to just, um you know, just showing what is rewarded. And then thio figure out how to reward the folks that were supporting Trump in the first place. For purposes of economic, um, you know, push back Could be a nice de escalation, in fact. And maybe an olive branch of Biden can bring that Republican Party into the conversation. Yeah, and sack sacks had this really beautiful thing that he posted on Twitter, which was like, You know, ah, lot of San Francisco's dysfunction is really going to spread wealth throughout the rest of the country because a lot of cities that were shut out of all these tech gains will now see it. And now you can imagine

all kinds of people. There's a guy that I, you know, follow on Twitter. He lives in Bowie, Maryland. He's an engineer at VM. Where, um, this black guy and he was just talking about how he got promoted. And he's now a principal engineer, and, you know, and I just thought like this is really fucking cool. Like there's going to be all this redistribution of opportunity all around the country. Um, and that will happen because of coronavirus because of people's frustration with California. Because you know of a handful of us how fed up we've gotten with the culture of Silicon Valley, including, by the way, what Brian Armstrong wrote, which was which again, Still very important. Um, and so we'll all be better off for that. So I don't know, I'm pretty optimistic. Sacks Tech economy politics 2021. Well, I'm I'm super bullish about, you know, how about the entrepreneurial energy in the American economy? Um, it za 100 times greater than when we

started out our careers in this business. You know, 20 years ago, in terms of the number of companies that get funded, the idea is the tools that are available, the funding. I mean, when you think about it, this might be the first time in human history where money is chasing the, like, throwing money at the ideas. I mean, throughout history, until I'd say last 10, 20 years ago. You know, the people who had no money but have great ideas. I always had to go hat in hand to go find the capital, and now it's it's completely the other way around. There's so many VCs and they're all racing around trying to find the people with ideas. And it was worse than that sex. They had to go give their ideas to a big company and take a salary, right? Like so. Tessa, you know Nikola Tesla, the original inventor, didn't profit it all from his ideas, you know? And so that was pretty common. And and so just this just how entrepreneurial the U. S economy has become, I'm very the new economy is completely taken over on bullish on that. I think that the, you know, the tweet that

math was referencing. You know, I said that, Sarah, schools loss is gonna be America's gain. The rest of America's gain, because Middle America has really left out of the new economy, is just not where it was taking place. And so, you know, globalization really gutted industrial America, our Cultural America. They didn't get to participate in the enormous wealth creation of last two or three decades. And I think, you know, I guess, you know, because of what San Francisco has done in terms of driving out, cos I think the company's they're gonna be, you know, technology. They're gonna be all over the U. S now. Totally. It's so it's fucking awesome. Should be, uh, super interesting on DSO. Let's just lay the odds as we wrap here on Biden win. Biden 65 35 approaching 70 30. Okay, David's you gotta you gotta handicap for me on pride in winning. What do you think? Sex? Well

, I mean, the betting line is is like, somewhere in the 60 70% range. And so you'd have to say that the betting markets are probably, you know, pretty accurate, I guess. You know, probably there's a 70% chance of him winning. If I had to bet on that line, I'd probably take the 30% underdogs. I think you know, there's all things there. So in so much turmoil right now that anything could still happen. So you think there's a chance that Trump could win? Yeah, it's probably bigger than 30%. It's probably bigger. It's slightly bigger than what the betting markets are giving him credit for. Freed right where you thought, Probably right? Yeah. I don't have anything to add to that. Alright. Any speculation that we want to end with tomato on the I just noticed that a meal from, uh, Uber is doing a SPAC Mark Pincus is doing a SPAC Everybody doing packs now. Any speculation on what we're going to see in that market? Nope. God bless them. And I love you all Besties. Alright, Besties Back to the grind. Back to the grind. We'll see you next

time You know what to do. Share this podcast with your friends. If you'd like to advertise on the all in podcast you can't on DSO The best you could do is write a review or clip it and, uh uh, we'll see you all next time on the all in podcast. Bye bye.

E9: Trump has COVID, First debate reactions, Coinbase letter response & more
E9: Trump has COVID, First debate reactions, Coinbase letter response & more
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