Mhm. Hello and welcome to the blossom, your awesome podcast episode number 41 today on the show, norman Plotkin is here with us, norman is a former lobbyist of 25 years turned hypnotherapist and author of two books after a cancer diagnosis, norman emerged with a whole new perspective and now is helping people lead more intentional lives through his work. And let me tell you, norman is truly a modern day shaman. I am so honored and delighted to have him here with us, sharing his wisdom and insights. Norman, thank you so much. Welcome to the show. Great to be here. So thank you so much for having me. Oh I'm so excited to have you here and get into your story. Now let's wind back. So policy consultant to hypnotherapist walk us through this.

How did this come about? Well I'm on about my fourth life. Um you know I didn't go to college right out of high school, I went to Marine Corps and then I got out of the Marine Corps and I worked in the oil fields and a rock plant making little rocks out of big rocks like fred Flintstone. And then I was climbing telephone poles as a construction linemen and then my brother was killed in a car accident and it kind of woke me up. Yeah, I bumped into my mortality. Right? And so I'm I went back, I went, I started college at 25 and started a whole new program. I um knocked out my associate degree in just over a year and then transferred to the university in Sacramento sac state, it's here in the capital of California, it's a it's a nation state. And so within the first semester I'd landed a internship unpaid internship which is the most coveted as a clerk in the state Assembly. And I did that for a few years and then progressively I worked my way up the ladder from clerk to consultant.

I ran campaigns, I became a committee consultant to the health and insurance committees. And then um then I was picked up by the medical association, became a lobbyist for The Physicians Trade Association and did that for a few years. And then I started my own lobbying business and for almost 13 years I I represented clients before the legislature, that was that was like the second phase and or third. And then um I got sick after 25 years of this. I I you know, it's I love the policy, I love the strategy, I love, you know, public policy is kind of interesting and but the politics is dirty and it's it's an ugly thing and I, you know, I would work really hard and make a good argument and if the other side had more money than I would lose and it didn't matter how good my argument was. And so it just was was really, really difficult and the other thing is energetically uh it was big for my ego, but I don't think it was an alignment with with my my true self And in fact, you know, so when I said I got sick I had thyroid cancer in my my throat chakra, right?

So I'm a lobbyist and I speak for others. I didn't have my own authentic voice. And and so I was struck in the throat chakra with the thyroid cancer papillary carcinoma. And I did the um you know, the conventional thing, I let them cut burn and poison me. And I just wanted to get back to quote normal and what I came to realize was that it was the normal that made me sick. And so I um I had a friend who had gotten out of politics and she opened a yoga studio and she took me through therapeutic yoga for cancer and taught me aggravated principles and my dosha and how to eat for my dosha. It turns out as a pit a fiery, it's you know, alcohol bad, it's like throwing gasoline on the fire. And so, you know, just little things like that about learning about myself and opening my mind to it, you know, a higher perspective. And teachers began to appear and I read books like wayne dyer is the power of intention Caroline meese anatomy of the spirit.

Deepak chopra's quantum healing Jody spends Greg Brayden, you know, it's a long list of these teachers that began to appear and open my mind and um and so I had moved to L. A. My marriage didn't survive the cancer, It's never just about the cancer, you know. And so I moved to L. A. From Sacramento and I had taken on a job as a, as an executive director of the trade association, which was kind of similar to stuff to what I was doing before. And it was, I mean it was a trade association that does some important work. They make metals stronger so that you know, landing gear on airplanes is strong and uh you know, the plating and all the circuitry in your electronics, you know, this type of stuff. But they, you know, they buy chemicals in by the truckload. So it was just, again, it was, you know, I found myself not in the right place and they didn't renew my contract after the first year I went to work on their their ethics and whatnot.

And and so I'm like well now what? And I was just, I felt like I was divinely guided. I began to study the archangels and um and meditate and and continue to deepen my spirituality And I, I was led to this college of hypnotherapy in, in the san Fernando valley. I was living in Burbank and and uh I just, it was just weird, it was divinely guided and so without ever having been hypnotized before. Well we all go into it naturally, but never having been formally hypnotized. I dropped some coin and enrolled in uh in this uh college of hypnotherapy, which is, it's a nationally accredited College of hypnotherapy. Uh, there are other, you can get a certificate in a weekend and learn how to hypnotize somebody, but that's, that's not what that was. It was 18 months with residency and it was a substantive program. And um, and I, I learned about hypnotherapy and I learned about myself and about being in service to others fully.

You know, following wayne dyer's power of intention. You know, just if you put yourself into the service of others, everything will work itself out. And so, uh, it's not easy to build a practice and you know, I'm in my fifties, you know, I'm starting a whole new program. And um, and so I kind of straddled the old world. I uh took a contract with a former client, automotive aftermarket industry and I covered 16 Western states but I worked remotely and had my own time and I did hypnotherapy on the shoulder some nights and weekends and on days that I wasn't traveling and, and just, you know, just was steadfast in my adherence to learning and growing as a hypnotherapist and applying this special process that's organic and non invasive and non chemical and uh, you know, so seven years later I've, I've surpassed Malcolm Gladwell says 10,000 hours to mastery and I've, I've surpassed that And I and I do genuinely feel like I've gained some mastery over the modality of hypnotherapy and my calendar is full and people leave better than when they came And I just feel like I found my soul's purpose.

Mm I love that. Now tell me norm. So, you know, there's this part of you that it really resonates for me because I feel the same way I do believe that were divinely guided. So were you always kind of spiritual or did you always believe in divinity or did this come about more so after your cancer diagnosis? Because I know a lot of times when we have kind of some medical health stuff, we simultaneously, that's kind of leading us or to us a spiritual awakening essentially. Well, yeah, I mean, cancer is the message and if you don't hear the message, you get reassigned. And by that, I mean, you know, reassignment is like your transition, right? And so I, I, you know, I was looking for the meaning, but I've always, okay, so, you know, Plotkin is a jewish name, but I wasn't raised in the temple. My, my only exposure to religion was a vacation bible school. And because my dad was a teacher in his school, got out a week after the school I went to.

So they shoved us into vacation bible school and we sang, you know, I'm a christian soldier, but I really just didn't, you know, I wasn't raised with it in college. I was a philosophy minor and I studied world religions. I've read the Koran the the terrible the bible, the Bhagavad Gita, I've I've study buddhism and daoism, I've been to Nepal and trek in the Himalayas and studied at the monkey temple in Kathmandu and I have questions I and I feel that the divine is, you know, you we can talk about the Big Bang, but you know, there was there was uh an immensely dense mass that preceded the Big Bang. Okay, so and where did that dense mass come from? So I look at mathematics, I look at natural law, I look at the symmetry of a tree, I look at the the form in nature. Uh and I know there's something greater now, is it?

It's certainly not some spirited white guy who lives in the clouds, but is it Jehovah or is it Sofia? You know, Sophia consciousness and I don't know, I'm still, you know, anybody who tells you that they do is not being honest with themselves. And so what I do know is God energy is love. Energy. They're synonymous. And so if you have love and compassion in your heart space, God lives within you and in this three D. Based world that we have going on now that we have, there's two timelines and one is to continue in the fear and conflict and duality of the three D. World and one is to ascend into the five D. And through time is the fourth dimension and energy is the fifth dimension and the way we break fear free of the fear of the third dimensional world is through love and compassion and that opens the gateway to energy. But I, you know my been married three times. My second wife was uh Iranian, so I converted to Islam to marry her and that was you know for seven years I studied the Koran and uh interacted with you know the Persian culture and and in the end the cultural differences were just you know too much.

But um uh but You know the inquiry and the interest has always been, there is just the mind was focused when when I was sick and so because you you wonder and you get of the world and I, you know as a lobbyist, I was enamored with racing Porsches and had a big 4000 square foot house and you know all these material things that I thought made me mean. And then when I and then when I got sick and uh and my marriage was you know not gonna survive, I thought I was gonna lose all the things that made me me and I realized that none of that makes me me, none of that is who I am. And the more I changed, I realized the more I me I became and so in my first book, take charge of your cancer, the seven proven steps to healing or recovery. One of the seven steps is deep in your spirituality and so what does that mean? You know what I mean? There are, I study shamanism, I study, I studied all types of pathways to the divine and and ways of knowing and I've experienced all of the claire's claire augustus, clear audience clairvoyance, claire, all of it, all of your senses have a clear associated with them.

I've seen smelled, heard, tasted and known and um and so what does that mean? It was, it scared me and I've been confused, I had all my life but I've had these gifts all my life and so um I now I it comes out in my practice, sometimes I I have deep knowing and I and the people who need me find their way to me. It's always interesting who comes, but I guess that's a long way to answer the question that I've always had a spiritual component, but I'm a seeker and I, you know, I don't know anything for sure other than there is a divine wellspring from which we came and that we're all part of and the separation that begins at your teenage years in puberty and you begin to form your little personality and you begin to become separate from everything and that is just the wrong way to go because we're not separate. We're all connected. My energy picks up your energy and about six ft.

That's why this whole quote social distancing was so terrible. Um you know, you feel me, you have you ever been known, someone was standing behind you? Of course you do because you pick up their energy field, our heart is energy and we're and we're water. And so this energy and this frequency is resonates within the moisture of our body and we pick each other up. We feel each other. I feel you. Mm hmm wow. I love that now norm. So you know, you say in your book, you talk about these seven steps to kind of healing and recovery and one of those steps is deep in your spirituality now. Do you, did you start going deeper with your spirituality after this and you know like these knowing z and things you have to really and you know, and not to be sexist here. I mean generally women are more into intuition and this and that that's a very kind of painting this with a broad brush, right?

But a lot of it can be considered kind of woo hoo and airy fairy and whatever. But for you to have these deep knowing, did you always kind of feel that or has that gotten more intense for you as you continue to work on your spirituality? Oh, I've, I've always had, I grew up on a ranch and through the 10 acre ranch creek flowed and there were native american grinding holes and there was an area of the creek I knew don't spend time and walk move quickly through this, but don't fish here because there was some native american medicine there that I, I sensed and I felt and I, but I as a, as a man, I was a marine. I worked in the oil fields. I mean I, I am such an unlikely character to have had, you know these experiences but I've had them always and I've been sensitive to them and very sensitive at the same time. So I'm, you know, I have, I have this wide capacity to be much, you know what I mean? I played ice hockey and rode rodeo and you know, it was a marine and all of these very manly things. But at the same time I have a deep, deep known and a deep connection and a deep intuition and um, and it usually it is woo woo and it is airy fairy.

And I've, it was exceedingly uncomfortable by all of it most of my life and it was in that resistance to it that made me sick. I, I had to embrace that. I had to understand how to like the voices in my head. I'm not schizophrenic. I'm just, I'm sensitive and I picked people up. I picked stuff up on the ethereal world that there are, there's energies on the other side of a very thin veil around all of us all the time And I because I'm I am love and I am light, the dark likes to attach to me at times and I have to ground and clear and I have to be very intentional and I, and um I have to have to cultivate this and to understand um what, who is it I'm feeling, who are these my feelings or they're someone else's and you know, there's not very many empathy. I mean we all have the capacity to be an impact. It's just, you know, um, women because they give life and the archetypes of the feminine creativity and collaboration and cooperation and the giving of life and subtle knowledge of, you know, the unknown and the akashic, you know, records and whatnot women are attuned to it because from them springs life, men are out, you know, you know, bludgeoning and um toiling and you know, they're they're less less sensitive to it.

And so it's been a journey, it's been and and yes, it was only in the aftermath of the cancer that I began to understand my gifts and to begin to apply them. And I'll tell you right now that, you know, I was in, well, let me finish that. I'll tell you right now that you know, the ego, my ego will block it sometimes. And then I was going to give you an example. I was in a psychic development class when I was, I met this wonderful woman and when I was in Burbank, her name is Laura powers and she has a podcast of powers hours. She's a psychic and a business coach. And and then really taught me about the archangels in the subtle world and just fantastic individual and um I would recommend anyone to tune into her. Um she's searchable. Um so um if she was doing a psychic development class and I was so, you know, there's like 10 or 12 of us from all over the country were on the phone and we've done some exercises, you know, we channeled some ascended masters and then, and then we had gone on uh you know, to everybody just close your eyes and visualize venice beach and then, you know, we can and we all shared what we got and then, you know, we did a ground in this one session, we did a grounding and clearing says, okay, we're gonna do an exercise today.

My roommate and I run Airbnb and we had a guest this weekend that I don't know if she had mental health issues, but there was an episode and incident, we had to ask her to leave. And so everybody just kind of tune in and see what you get. And so we're quiet on the phone for 10 minutes and I'm sitting there and my eyes are closed and just very quiet and still and trying to get something and the heart, the more I tried, the bigger blank that came up and and so and so um at the 10 minutes was up and and Laura comes on and she's ok, everybody let's let's go through it and see what you got and thank goodness I was p for plucking down the list a little. She went in alphabetical order and she started asking people, what do you get? And there was this this fantastic list of things, you know, rabbit under the house and like all of these other things and I'm like what am I going to say? I'm I don't know, I don't have anything, I didn't get anything and I don't want to be a fraud.

And I'm just mortified as each person goes and I still don't have anything. And then she says, okay, normal. And in that moment mm hmm I gotta download. And I'm like okay I got I just got something that's very different than everybody else got him and honor what I got. And so I'm seeing a grandmother figure like dr ruth and and and she that was her house and she lived in that house her whole life. She raised her kids there. She and then you know and then after the kids, her and her husband lived there many years, he died a number of years ago. She lived alone by herself and then she recently passed away and that was her house and she did not like that woman and she made herself perfectly understood that she didn't like her. And she made it clear to that woman that woman there was no mental health issues that woman was sensitive and felt grandma and grandma made it clear that she needed to go and laura said, that's Adam's grandma and it's exactly like you said, and I can't believe I'm dada dada dada and here I am, I'm, you know, got my arms up in a, in a class all over my shoulders, I'm doing a victory lap and look how psychic I am and everything.

And um and grandma wasn't done with me after we got off the phone, I was feeling full of myself, She took me, she took me shopping, like I went to this vintage dress shop on magnolia boulevard and in Burbank with one cowboy boot, it was my girlfriend's cowboy, was a tall cowboy boot and had the top had some turquoise and orange stitching. And I took one boot to this vintage dress shop and I went through the rack, the girl and she says, can I help you? Like I'm here to buy a dress and I went through the rack and, and boom, there was this, you know, this country sundress white that matched and had some stitching that matched the turquoise. I bought this $100 dress for my girlfriend grandma took me shopping, like she wasn't done with me and but I was so full of myself over that whole thing that I didn't get anything for weeks because it can't, it can't be about me, I gotta just be.

And so I'm very careful, like I was getting a massage once and at the end, the woman, she went uh to get me a glass of water and get dressed and stuff and she came back and I'm like for the last five minutes or so of the massage. I was getting a message that I have to share with you. I don't know what it means. But um I was made, it was made clear that I need to share with you that your daughter is going to be okay mm hmm. And she started crying and left. And I don't I don't know anything about it except that I was supposed to share that. And um and so I get things when I'm in session and I'm hypnotizing people I had at a client. She's I was taking her through a multi session protocol for I. B. S. Irritable bowel syndrome. And I'd also done some grief work with her because her son had been killed. He was in his 20's and um his name is the same as my son.

So, so I was taking her into hypnosis. I'm sorry. I had a moment there. I was taking her into hypnosis. And um he appeared over my shoulder, let's just no I couldn't see him. He just said, mommy, I love you and everything's gonna be okay mm hmm. And I said I can't I can't ambush her. I'm taking her into hypnosis for something entirely different. I can't can't, he said tell her now. And I said I can't he said write it down. So I wrote it down in the shared with her afterwards. And I said you know I just had the most extraordinary experience and I have to share it with you. She cried and I cried and I said does it sound like him? And she said, yeah. So I don't I don't know when it's gonna come through but when it does, I'm you know, I'm a vessel and I just I share it and um and that's why I know I'm right where I'm supposed to be mm hmm. And now tell me norman how does this with your hypnotherapy practice?

Right? Like uh does this ability because this is more, I mean I get that we're all intuitive and you know, and sometimes I get downloads too. Um but does this ability, does that kind of do, does it interfere? Does it enhance it? What you know are the to kind of do they go together? Are they separate things that you're kind of trying to work out? Um I've no it can be confusing if you're not if you haven't done the work? I've done a lot of work have done a lot of work myself and the shadow. I studied taro under a psychologist who has written five books on tarot and psychology. And so the you know the collective consciousness the young indian concept of the archetypes and the collective consciousness. Um And so I I only it's only for its highest best good.

And and it's only come as an adjunct to my hypnotherapy as I've grown as a hypnotherapist. Uh my confidence level is is very high and I'm very good at what I do. And and so sometimes intuition comes into play as an adjunct to helping people. And I have utmost reverence. You don't play with this. It's not something you you trivialize. Its it's um always for the highest, best good. And it has nothing to do with me. It comes through when it's supposed to come through. I'm a vessel and I just and filled with gratitude that um I get to be that. And and and again um it's only because I've put myself into the service of others and I'm steadfast in uh huh.

My serious seriousness about that. And because of that uh these special augmentations come through. Um I don't play with it. I don't trivialize it. I don't take any credit for it. But when it does, it's supposed to mm hmm, mm hmm. I'm I'm understanding the subtle energies of it now, But I'm, you know, I'm 10 years since the cancer and seven years of practicing hypnotherapy. So um and and the way I do it, you know what I mean? It um it's not it's it's not for everyone. It's not given to everyone. It's there are a great hypnotherapist out there who to straighten out their therapy. Uh But for some reason I've been given these subtle gifts. I mean, you know, right after, right after my cancer, one of my best friends from high school was killed in a car accident.

And, and I went, I went to his funeral, but I sure Clayton recognized a couple of friends I hadn't seen in a long time, haven't sat by them. And they, the pastor finished the um, mm hmm. You know the ceremony and said the family would like some people to say a few words norman I wasn't prepared. I didn't say anything, but I just driven four hours to get there and I thought a lot about him. And so I'm, you know, public speaker. And so pretty good at a three minute extemporaneous speech as a lobbyist. And so I told three stories that, and the unifying theme was that he was a sweet guy and was, you know, he was macho, he was a cop and in the army and construction and stuff. And unless you knew him, you wouldn't, you wouldn't look at this guy and say that he was a sweet guy. And as I told these three stories and I through tears and I, you know, summarize that he was a sweet guy and everyone there knew him and knew him to be a sweet guy. A sweet taste came into my mouth overwhelmingly sweet taste came into my mouth.

So these are the kind of things that as they happen, I used to pull my hair out and say, what does it mean? And so sometimes I just have to accept that I don't, I don't know the meaning and I won't know the meaning and sometimes it's just validation that I'm on the right path. I love that norm. I think that's so powerful. I mean everything you've shared right now, I'm just blown away. But a couple of things I want to just say for one, I love that you've said, I don't need to know the meaning because this is as you know, something we all struggle with in life. There are so many things that are just inexplicable and we will spend a lifetime trying to figure that out. And I've recently gotten to a place with something I still don't understand, but I'm accepting now that it's okay that I don't understand it. I'm good with that. So I love that you shared that and I feel I I love that you're doing this work and you're this empath and you're really, you know, so kind of open an ego list about it, right?

And honoring that. Okay, this is not me, It's coming from, I'm a conduit and all of that versus oh, I'm this gifted this and that, but you know, giving the credit where it is and like, you're just, it seems you're truly chosen for this work. I mean, it was brought home in the, in the early uh in the early experiences that, you know, like, you know, the ego when I got on the island, took some credit for it. It would it would vanish would evaporate. I'm like, okay, all right. I understand now. I mean, I have to have I've I used to have a big ego and you have to have a little bit of ego. Um I'm very good at what I do now. And uh my ego surfaces in that I'm going to help you in a few sessions as possible. I run a business and I need to make money doing what I do, but I don't sell unnecessary sessions of hypnotherapy. My ego is that I'm gonna if I can help you in three, I will or six or 12, but I get people who come to me after nine years of psychotherapy and I'm like, weren't you wondering about your three if this was working for you?

And how can how in good consciousness can people continue to take people's money without helping them get better? So I do. That's that's the little slice of ego that I have is that I'm going to help you in as few sessions as possible. But um you know, it's it's a gift and I'm grateful. I'm filled with gratitude. And uh huh I help people write a new story because they get wrapped around their old story and my story is it's kind of important because it's so odd, but I'm not that anymore. I am, I'm I figured out who I came here to be. Mm Okay, so a couple of things one I love and I was going to bring this up earlier, you know there is a fine line with ego, right? Where it's kind of like uh that could be looked misconstrued where I am communicating with you, talking to you feeling your vibration and your energy.

I know that's not ego when you say I'm good at what I do, but that could definitely be like, oh he's kind of cocky, right? But at some point when you are good at what you do, I think it's okay to kind of acknowledge that. Um and so what are your like, what is that like for you? You know, actually because you are you are good at what you do that's evident and I can just sense and feel it. I haven't worked with you. Like, you know, you haven't had any hypnotherapy but it's there's this uh I don't know what it is, norm, there's a you're sure of yourself, but it's kind of, it's coming from this deeper place, you know, it's you are divinely guided and it's almost like your angels and guides are affirming to you to be like, yeah, I'm good at what I do. Yeah, Janice clark is what, So um so there are three things that are necessary for the hypnotic modality, one is authority, one is a doctrine or a paradigm and they need to feel something.

And so if I'm not an authority on hypnotherapy, it won't work. So what you feel, what you sent from me is uh that what is absolutely necessary as a foundation to be a, an effective hypnotherapist. And so I qualified it. You understand that it's not unconstrained ego. You understand that it is an expression of the, my mastery of my craft and that's all it is. I don't think I'm anything. You know, here's what I am, fill it with gratitude. And that's that's the bottom line. I'm grateful for. I wanted to call my book the Unwrapped Gift. My first book, take charge of your cancer. Just as I said, my brother's death, that, You know, I turned my life around and and was the impetus for a 25 year career in politics.

I saw that as a gift and there was some guilt associated with that. But I dedicated myself in his name and became so much more than I ever thought I could be before that. And then the cancer. What a gift! It woke me the hell up. And I heard the message of the cancer and I redirected myself into the service of others. But my publisher said, norm, cancer probably was a gift for you. But how long did it take you to figure that out? And I said, yeah, it was it was a few years, she said, people if you want to help people with your book and to help them when they're in the cancer, they're not thinking it's a gift when they're in it. So you got to meet them where they are. So instead it became a book to help mostly men who don't go to the doctor Until they're in stage four. And then it's too late to have something empowering to do. Not just one thing, but seven things that are empowering. Like going to a second opinion and going where you're told and listening to your dot that's disempowering. But if you can deepen your spirituality radically change your diet, learn to meditate um release your repressed emotions. Commune with your subconscious mind through hypnosis and otherwise have a reason to live, don't just not want to die and take charge of your own health care.

If you can do those seven things, you got a empowered chance of survival. And if you go where you're told and listen to somebody with alphabet soup behind their name and let them cut burn and poison you. Your chances just got slimmer and you are disempowered. Mm hmm. Now let's talk about releasing your repressed emotions. How to where do people start with that? Because we're all just carrying you know, it's like layer upon layer upon layer right things that just never get dealt with you think, oh I'm fine, I'm alright. I'm whatever I'm moving on and you don't talk about it, but it's there it is and um and so you know, you have to, you have to start by explaining the difference between the conscious and the subconscious mind and the subconscious mind holding the programming and you know, trauma is cumulative and you don't need to see someone die in front of you to be traumatized, you can have a bitter disappointment. Um and so uh so understanding that mhm.

Uh these things that happen in our lives shape who we are and rarely do we resolve them because and I explained it this way, you know, you're, you're in elementary school and then you're off to junior high and then, and then high school and then you get your license and you graduate, you may or may not go to college and you start working and you're just, you're just on this trajectory and and and and you're you're too busy Where, where I see people usually is in their 40s and 50s when they were been busy their whole lives and sometimes it's their child reaches an age that they were when they experienced trauma and suddenly now it's just blows up in their face or, or now, you know, they're they're empty nesters and they, you know, they're exhausted from raising their families and their careers and now the past begins to creep in on them, like, like, you know, Like the walls moving in on them and now it becomes begins to come out in neurotic and psychotic and diseased ways. And so women will present with persistent inability to lose that last 10 or £15, and it has nothing to do with the diet or the food.

It has everything to do with carrying an extra layer of emotional protection from the outside world. And so, you know, I I asked tough questions, I'm very direct. I'm not for everyone, I'm like the same thing that made me a good analyst and you know, I I get right down to it and I ask people questions and I my line of questioning is now is very developed and I'm able to see things and connect dots that people are like, how did you know? I'm like, well, I hate to break it to you, but you're human and these are all very human experiences. And and you're, you know, the maladaptive behavior that you've formed in order in response to this traumatic experiences is very, very predictable. And so let's, you know, let's look at that. And so I take, you know, I've got I've got my three pack and my six pack are are pretty much um uh huh a systematic routine to help people release this stuff.

They've been caring for a long time. I tell them we're going to pack a bag. Yeah, and buy a bus ticket to Albuquerque and the bag gets on the bus and you don't and we're gonna send that back bag of stuff to Albuquerque and um and people, the relief they get is palpable, you can see it and they may or may not acknowledge it but they feel better and so it may seem fantastic to them, but it's effective. Mm wow, okay. And now, next question for you, deepening spirituality, how do you practice if you're open to sharing, like what do you do to deepen your spirituality? Oh I you know, I talked to God all the time and then so you know, the problem is we send up these petition prayers God, if you just get us out of this one, you know, I I promise I'll never do anything bad again and God says, where were you last Tuesday? And so and really God resides in your heart space and so You know, you gotta show up for yourself.

So every morning I start my day for at least 10 minutes, quiet and still in meditation. Sometimes I light a candle And I recommend to everybody start your day, Joe dispenser will tell you that we have 60-70,000 thoughts every day. And 90% of them are the same as they were yesterday and so change is difficult. and so before that onslaught of 60-70,000 thoughts avalanches on you. Be quiet and still light a candle, show up for yourself every day at the same time and invite God in and have a conversation, it doesn't happen verbally and when God speaks to you you won't hear it through your ears, you'll feel it in your body. And so sit quiet and still relieve what's on your heart and listen for um guidance and allow yourself to have your own knowing and then trust. So I show up for myself every morning and I, so prayers when we talk to God and meditation is when we get a response.

So if you're not quiet and still, you're not getting the response, There are sacred signs everywhere, everywhere. On my mom's birthday this year, I saw a car with a sticker of a boston terrier. I'm like, who puts a sticker of a boston terrier on their car. And why did I see it on my mom's birthday? I'm like, hi mom. So there are sacred signs everywhere. If you just just open your mind to them and you open your mind by, you know, it was really hard for me to learn to meditate on my active mind. Same thing that made me a really good analyst, you know, made it really difficult to shut it off. And so the practice practice practice, I learned to meditate in Kathmandu with my breath. But now there's, you know, youtube, there's tons of stuff on Youtube. There's a native american one that was one of my favorites where there's a crackling fire in the drumbeat and a little flute in the background. Uh, you know, I just, I recommend that you, you know peruse through meditations on, I don't like guided meditations. I don't want somebody talking to me.

But there are some good ones like healing camp and there's a, there's a, there's a meditation for each of the chakras and then there's a seven chakra meditation that's really, really good. It's a guided one that that I'm making an exception for because it's so good. Um but tones, binaural beats. Um You know, there's a ton of stuff that you can use and just put your earbuds in and and and choose a 10 minute meditation and just be quiet and still and learn to shake the edges, sketch of your mind And make it go blank before you start doodling and again on it, you know what I mean? So that's that's what I do and everyone can do it and the Dalai Lama says, you know I meditate for 20 minutes every day unless I'm stressed out and then I meditate for an hour. I love that. Oh my God, normal. Okay, so I want to just say you have been so amazing and you are really on another level and um I'm just so honored to have had this time with you. Uh it's really been awesome. I would love to have you back on at some point.

We'll circle back and figure that out. If that's something you're open to a deeper conversation. Um now in closing, let me ask you what is your message of hope, love wisdom, any insights you want to leave us with, what would that message be for everyone out there, love is your birthright, it resides in your heart center. Its opposite is fear at any moment. You can choose to come from a place of love or fear. Love gives rise to all positive emotions. Fear gives rise to all negative emotions. I want everyone out there to come up with a picture, an image or an icon that says to them, Love the red heart, a red rose, a peace sign, jesus, a kitten, a puppy, a dolphin, whatever, whatever it is for you, A rock in the shape of the heart, whatever. And Practice 40 times a day bringing that image of love into your heart space because you can't be in love and fear at the same time. And we live in a fear based society and there's so many afraid people right now my door is revolving around people who are stressed and the pills aren't working anymore and nothing is working anymore because you know, it's coming at them fast and furious and there's nowhere to hide.

And so I tell everyone whether they moved past and work with me after a consultation or not. Love icon love. It just has to say love agape, not romantic love, God Love and bring it into your heart 40 times because you because we're all in fear and we're all triggered and we're all in flight in flight and we're all walking around in hypnosis right now, there is mass hypnosis right now and we won't even go into why, but to bring love into your heart space 40 times. And if you're serious about it and you spend two weeks 40 times a day soon it will be 35 then 27 then 16 and then 10 and soon you'll be like me after doing this 10 years, once or twice. I just have to remind myself to bring love. And it's usually when someone has cut me off from the freeway and they're babying and testing it at the same time and I'm like, I love you, I love that. That was awesome. You have been amazing norm. I thank you so much. It's been my pleasure. I appreciate the opportunity.

Thank you. Mhm.