blossom, your awesome podcast, episode number 74 Today on the show, steve Vincent is here with us. Steve is a poet and spiritual teacher who helps others overcome obstacles and follow their dharma. Steve is also the author of Finding You a collection of poems that guide the journey into your shadow self. I am so honored and delighted dad steve here with us, sharing his wisdom and insights. Steve, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the show. Hey, so it's a pleasure. Welcome. Thank you for welcoming me. It's great to be here and I can't wait to have a really good chat with you. Oh, I'm so excited to have you here. You are all the way in Australia, doing amazing things. So, thank you for waking up this morning and taking the time to be here. So, I think my accents are dead giveaway.

Right? Well, a little bit, but you know, we have a lot of Australians here in the States, so you never know, but you were actually there beyond the accent, you're in the thick of it. So that's always good to kind of place the person. Um so now steve, I'm gonna say we start with your background, you are a poet, you're an author, you're a spiritual teacher. Give us a little bit of this backstory, how you ended up here. Yeah, I have a remarkably plain story. So I grew up in Brisbane Australia, the youngest of six kids in a catholic family lower middle class, very, very ordinary. I followed the code of be a good boy, work hard at school, get good grades, go to university, get a good job and everything will be fine in life. Um I've followed that to a T, I was a high achiever. Um The one thing I found was that at some point in my life that particular code for success, it no longer worked for me.

Um and call it a midlife crisis, call it a spiritual awakening. Um They were just, there was, I just knew there were things in my life that weren't working, you know, I'm a father of four kids than our adults. We had four under five at one point I was high school faculty head Deputy principal. Um but I've got to say I was just unhappy. It had nothing to do with the external stuff. I live near the beach on the sunshine Coast, which for those who know is a beautiful part of the world. I had four beautiful kids. So I had a successful career, happy marriage, I had everything that you should have and I should quote unquote, have been happy, but I was really, I was really unhappy inside. And 11 thing that I learned was that the more we look outside of ourselves for answers, a new boat, a new house, a new partner, a new car, whatever it might be.

Um those little sugar hits, they only last For a little while and then we're looking for the next thing. And so it took me 40 something years to to really understand the concept of our the key to our unhappiness and therefore our happiness lies within us, not without of us. And I think all of my life, I had relied on things outside of myself to make me happy. And part of those things was the model of this is what it means to be successful in life. Um you know, if you do all the right things, you are happy and I just found out it wasn't true and um I when Covid hit, I, you know, as a professional writer, so I lost $100,000 client when Covid hit. And that really, that really hit me for a six because one of the things I realized was that I never actually really failed at anything in life. And this felt like a real failure. Um and and so the external stimulus of success to quite make me happy that was taken away.

And that was that was a really painful, but a really beautiful experience because it forced me to look within and find why I was actually unhappy in life. And it's been a really difficult, beautiful, frustrating, um challenging journey within. Um and part of that journey, I wouldn't say it was cathartic, but part of that journey was publishing my book Finding You, which is a um the journey within in in in my poems. Um and having some unexpected free time during Covid, it gave me a lot more time to sit down and write. And one of the things within this. Um within this inner journey, just looking at different parts of me, I came across a really cool quote by carl jung, the famous psychologist. He said that everyone carries a shadow and the less it is embodied in the individual's conscious life, the blacker and denser it is, he said at all counts.

It forms an unconscious snag thwarting our most well meant intentions. And that just really hit me in the guts like a punch. Because that was kind of me, I had all of these great intentions, I was doing all of the great, all of the right things. And yet I still was still part of me that was that was desperately unhappy. And it wasn't until I acknowledge that I had a shadow self and our shadow self understand that um you know, there are really two sides to us. There's the bright, happy, shiny side, we show the world look how wonderful I am, look at me on social media, all that stuff. And then there's the other side of ourselves that we don't want to show. Um we don't want to show the world and that's all of our pettiness jealousies, our insecurities, our failures, our shame, our guilt and what I realized in this journey within was that I had been suppressing all of those parts of me that I didn't like my petty jealousies, my my insecurities, my embarrassment, my fear have been laughed at all of these things.

And in so doing, like Carl Young said, it became an unconscious snag thwarting my most well meant intentions. My well meant intentions were to live a really successful good life. But on the inside I wasn't happy. And so this whole journey within. And I think to the other thing that's been a real pillar for me is brain, a browns strength through vulnerability. Now, I had run away from vulnerability my whole life. I didn't want to be laughed at, embarrassed, shame, guilt, fear, all of those sorts of things. And yet it's only when I've been able to love that part of my shadow, I love that part of myself that I've been able to talk about it. And one of the things I found to look, I guess right back around to the start of your your questions, to one of the things I found is that when I wrote about those vulnerabilities, when I spoke about those vulnerabilities, other people went hell man, I can relate to that, that's how I feel. And through writing a lot of my poems, I when I first started writing, I've been writing poems all my life, but I didn't really seriously do it until sort of Covid hit.

And I showed a couple of poems to people close to me. And like I said, I was really vulnerable about it was a really um it was really scary moment to um to expose myself like that because the poems are quite personal and a couple of people said, oh wow, that really, that really touches my heart, That, gosh, I really felt that. And the more people I showed my poems to, more and more of them said that now either they said nothing because it was too confronting for them or they went, wow, that really resonated with me. And you know, when one or two people close to you say something nice, it could just be one or two people close to you saying something nice. But when more and more people started giving me feedback that this more people need to hear this. This is this is really vulnerable, this is how I really feel. But I've never actually expressed that there was it was are you going to publish these panels and no, I'm not, it's too vulnerable, it's too personal. And I said you've got to do it because this will help a lot of people come to terms with their own shadow self and I guess here we are, to look back around in a really long answer to that first question.

Yeah. Now, steve, let me ask you. So, you know, you kind of start these things challenges start coming up for you during Covid. But had you always been this sort of spiritual seeker? Had you been kind of looking within for answers throughout life or did this all just kind of come about sort of epiphany? Yeah, I was like a 20 year overnight success, I think I had always been uh part of my high self always knew there was something more and part of my, my higher self always knew there was something for the want of a better term, something missing, um something that I hadn't actually found within myself and um it was a long church and I did a whole lot of personal development stuff, you know, the Tony Robbins is that chris howard's the um, you know, all of those sorts of things that I guess a lot of people have done in NLP and um but it was just a continuous search and the only, the only thing that really, I think worked for me was that realization that in amongst all of that I had been denying half of myself and you know, that half of myself was those parts that I tried to hide from the world and a quote that really stands out for me is by dr john DeMartini, he says, now, look, I'm not a nice person, I'm not a mean person, I'm a combination of both.

And that was just like that to me was an epiphany type moment because well, actually, yeah, I am, I can be really petty and mean and nasty, but I'm also really generous in giving and loving and yet I only ever wanted to show the world that happy, generous, loving giving side. And I had ignored those other parts of me. It was like denying part of myself. And so I guess I never felt whole if that makes sense because I was denying part of my shadow part of me that I never wanted the world to see and I never wanted to accept as part of me. Hmm. And now, but as far as never feeling whole, you didn't does it seem that it wasn't really, you know, because I feel I find that people will go through life. People who are not seekers, people who are not looking for something deeper. They may feel a lack of something, but they don't really know that something is missing or that they can go deeper because they're not really looking for it.

You see what I'm saying. So was it is something like that is coming up for you as you're going deeper within and doing the soul work? Is that when you realized, wait, there's this whole deeper part of me that's I'm not exposing. Yeah, totally. And it's really interesting you say that because um I observed that in um people and I guess that it gets back to, like I said, some people really love and connect to my poetry and other people don't even want to look at it. It's too uncomfortable for them and often, you know, what we run away from is what we most need to face. And I think the other, the other challenge for us, humans is, you know, we have bills to pay, we have family to look after, we have jobs to do, we, we are very much on a treadmill of business, which really is, it makes it challenging to actually stop and look within and question because it's just, it's so easy to get into our working week and get really busy during the day and don't pick the kids up here and do this and they meet this deadline and then pay this bill and all of a sudden it's friday and you flop down in the chair and um, you know, a lot of people are very much on that dynamic where um all they want to do is get to the weekend and get through the week and then get to their holiday.

Um, and I always knew that as a, as a high school teacher and I hated looking forward to holidays, but that's what I did because it gave me um time and space to be with myself and then I would have to do it again when the next term started and so forth. But I think absolutely, people are oblivious, people who aren't seekers are oblivious to it and they never question their purpose in this world. You know, they never question anything about their souls growth or or any of those high things and I totally get that because there were times in my life when I didn't and you know, my response to that is well, you know, that's your path. Maybe this time around this incarnation in life, it's not for you to be learning those lessons. Maybe you have to come back two or three more times to learn those lessons. Whereas me and other people who resonate with what I speak about, you know, we do. We question a lot of things.

We question a lot about ourselves. We look internally for personal growth. Mm That is beautiful. Now, steve, had you been a writer prior to this? I mean, had you written poetry or did was this all just kind of this whole inner excavation? Did that all just happened as you were going through your stuff or was that something? Had you been writing, reflect? Yeah, Yeah. I there's two things I've been writing poetry since I was a teenager, but I went to an all boys school. So you didn't kind of talk about that girl, that kind of stuff? Otherwise you got beat up, right? I say that euphemistically, but it's kind of also true. So, so, um I I had been delving into, I had been hearing something, I had been experiencing something but I didn't understand it and I ran away from it. So sometimes in moments of clarity, I'd sit down and I'd write a few things and then I would leave it for several months and then I would feel something else and I'd go and write something.

And then I would leave it for several months. So it's been when I look back, it was like, oh, man, why didn't I just listen earlier in my in my humanity. I don't punish Well, I worked really hard not to punish myself. It was almost I was like, man, if only I had to listen when I was a teenager or in my twenties, you know, instead of getting caught up in the business of life and you know, and and getting caught up in the egoist demands of life, you know, with with comparisons and striving and all of that stuff. Which is just absolute crap compared to, you know, our true authentic self. But I had just run away from it and ignored it. Mm hmm. Yeah. You know. So, what I think is so beautiful about part of the story is that because as we know, I mean, I'm like, you I don't want to be stereotyping here and judging people, right? But men do struggle to express vulnerability.

You know, it's not the cultural norm anywhere really. So, um, I think that's so beautiful that you're able to kind of liberate yourself and express the vulnerability so freely. So that's just amazing steve. I think there's so much power in that. Thank you. And I totally concur with what you're saying about it's not manly for a man to talk about their feelings, you know? And that's that's the bottom line, right? And you know because we're the hunter, the gatherer, the protector, the tough guy kind of thing and um generationally biologically, that kind of thing is is ingrained into us as men. Now I in some of the men's groups I've run, I've invited some acquaintances and they've gone, I don't, I don't, I'm really private. I don't talk about that stuff. So no, it's not for me, which is fine. I mean like I said, we're all on a journey and if that's not your path at the moment then that that's cool.

But there is absolutely 100% right. There is absolutely this resistance to being vulnerable like that because because here's the thing right? There is a strong ego sense for men that we have this wall of, I've got this um you know, no one can tell me what to do. I call it an arrogance whatever you, whatever you like. But that's kind of part of that masculine makeup and to to admit that you actually haven't got it all going on that you do feel weak and vulnerable at times that you are afraid of being exposed, that that takes, you know an awful lot of um I think bravery to do and some guys just aren't willing to I know a lot who are but a lot of men aren't as well for a whole number of reasons. But yeah, men listening to this um the more you can be vulnerable and own your feelings in all of their their rawness and their uncomfortableness um You know the more we can be okay with discomfort.

Um You know the better the better and the stronger I think that we are not. I think the other thing to so is that I one of the things that I've strived for in life and this was this was really something that denied nature if you like, I always tried and wanted to be happy. So just one um one side of life, right? You look at nature, we have day and we have night, we have storm and we have calm, we have a drought and we have flood, we have summer winter and we have a planting season and the harvesting season. But nature where we live has all of these different times and yet it's such a difficult, fruitless, pointless task to only focus on trying to be happy because when we're doing that we're denying actually the natural world, you know? So yeah, it's okay to be sad, it's okay to be, to be down to be grumpy.

One of the most liberating things was one of my mentors I was working with, she said to me, you really are a grumpy person, aren't you? My my immediate response was no I'm not no I'm not, I'm not like that and then she said, she said, she said listen to you, you're you're miserable, you're grumpy, you're you're kind of your heavy to be around. I said, no, I'm not. And then when, when I actually sat with, oh hell you know what that is? I get up cranking most mornings. I don't want to die in my day. I'm grumpy. The funny thing about that was the less I suppressed that, the more I accepted that as part of me that sometimes I am completely grumpy and miserable to be around, the less I was actually like that. I mean it was a fascinating dynamic, you know, and I'll just give you a quick example.

Um, you know, when my wife and I have a, have a coffee in the morning, you know, she said, hey going, you know, I said, yeah, I'm fine. I started saying now I feel like crap. I'm grumpy, grumpy about, I don't know, I'm just grumpy, leave me alone. Just when I didn't put that mask on of, yeah, everything's fine. I'm okay. I noticed and I accepted that. Yes, I'm a grumpy bum. A lot of the times I actually noticed that I became less and less grumpy and so I guess my message to whatever stuff you do all the time if you can learn to accept and own and love that part of you. It actually doesn't, that pattern doesn't repeat nearly as much and it doesn't have that energetic hold over you. So you know, just just accepting my grumpiness. It kind of released me from the energy of grumpiness, if that makes sense. It does. Absolutely. And I think this speaks to a lot of your book and the poetry that's kind of bringing some of that hard stuff.

Right? So it's almost like when we acknowledge it, we don't need to resist it at month, Right? It's kind of okay. Yeah. So this is hard. I'm accepting that this is a struggle or a hard moment and then you're able to kind of surrender to it. Yeah, totally. You know, and I think I had spent my whole life denying that sort of stuff plastering over the cracks, pretending everything was okay, pretending that I wasn't grumpy, pretending that I wasn't unhappy. And the moment I stopped that pretending and accepted those negative parts of me, the less and less I behold they had on me. It was it was fascinating. And the more as I, you know, and I've still got heaps of stuff going on, Right? And so the more and more layers I peel off, the more of the things that I previously hadn't really liked about myself because who wants to be grumpy?

Right? Everyone wants to be happy? You see people happy around. They're laughing. They're joking. No, I was just miserable and grumpy. But who wants to accept that part of themselves? You know? But the more I did, the freer I became, the less energy it took to put on a front and the less tired and worn out, I think I became mm that is so fascinating now. Really quick steve, I want to pause for a moment because you know, there's some kind of background noise that's coming through all of a sudden at my end. God, it's weird. It sounds like it, it wasn't there before. Is that coming through from my end? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was, I think we're okay, we'll just in you. It was, it was almost like a quacking duck or something. There's a crow in the distance. I can hear a crow. Yes, okay. I was like, okay, is this going to get louder? Is it, is he on a farm? Is is he in the barn?

Is it going to come in? No problem. So steve, let me ask you now, we'll just continue right there. Let me ask you. Um so, you know, you said you'd been writing, but you know, the spiritual part of you, where did this, what do you attribute to this? Because you weren't necessarily always spiritual, right, where does this spiritual side come from? Yeah, that I'm still examining that one. So if I'm completely honest, I believe I've always been spiritual, but I grew up in a fairly strict catholic household and I think that spirituality was um Sublimated by religion and there are two very different things. Um and whilst I always had a really deep connection to God to source whatever you wanna, whatever term you use.

Um it was always done through a doctrine or religious kind of thing, which probably never sat really well with me. Um yeah, like my pattern in life, I had suppressed denied a lot of things. It was only when excuse me, only when I was able to truthfully look at um you know, my journey on this planet that I realized religion didn't serve me, but spirituality and connection to source. And I read widely in a number of religious texts, from the bible to the bag of guitar, to the docking the gnostic gospels. Like I read a lot of stuff in that spiritual realm that is not necessarily denominational religious. So the more I delve into it, the more I delve into it, if that makes sense. Yeah, I love that, that's so beautiful.

And I think just, you know, being open is the first biggest like insight, I think people gain when you stop shutting things out or trying to just, you know, narrow in on one thing, you start seeing the commonality and it all really, I mean, that's my belief. Um so let me ask you steve now your book, finding you talk to us about the book and then maybe like to share, you know, short excerpt or a poem or something. Sure, yeah, I'd love to, So finding you, it's the subtitle is poems and reflections for the journey into your shadow self, the book is not for everyone because if you are not on that inward journey, you would find it at best interesting. The way I've structured the book is I've written a poem which obviously comes straight from the heart in a vulnerable moment of my own. Then I've written my reflection. So I've explained um what I was thinking about when I wrote that and what it meant to me.

That's one of the things I've often found about poetry is that it's part of the beauty of it is it's so open to interpretation. But I actually really wanted to know what the author was thinking at that time. So, I've actually done that in the book and then I've actually the third part of each poem or the second part of each poem is reflection exercises for the readers. So, you'll have the poem, you'll have my explanation of the poem and then I ask you some questions with spaces in the book for you to write your reflections in there. So, it's a workbook and a working book to help you dive into those different parts of the Shadow self. And I cover topics like our journey here, like our kids and one of the most vulnerable poems I wrote was apology to my kids. Um and that's very much a story about how I have, I believe now erroneously um placed a whole lot of values on them in their life. And that's a very emotional thing for me because I I do, I feel some some guilt and some shame that I've forced my own values on them rather than let them be who they are in their their innate beauty and magnificence.

So that's a very vulnerable poem. Um, there's a poem there about religion and the guilt of that. It's a problem there about being a trophy child. Um, you know, that's very much about me, you know, taking a bow and doing the right things and getting the certificate and and getting the applause and then everyone will be happy. Doesn't getting the certificate doesn't make it. So um, and and there's a poem in there about that. One of the other things I one of my big mantras, if you like is the business of the world and being a little bit rebellious against the business of the world and finding moments of peace and quiet to connect with nature. I think the more we do that and that's certainly something that has been hugely helpful for me on this journey within is connecting with nature going and sitting on the grass, putting my feet and my hands in the grass. I live near the beach. So I walk on the beach and feel the waves around me just sitting by water, sitting under a tree.

Any of those things that we can do actually help us connect to ourselves and connect to sorts a whole lot more. And if I have cancer. I just like to read the poem just be, it's quite it's quite short. But to me, it has a very powerful message about a success key for navigating the business of our world. So I'll be now if that's okay with you soon. Absolutely. Okay. So just be let go open up, be still find quiet. Just be turn off, shut down, allow him in slow time. Just be go soft. Lighten up. Feel love, release tension. Just be closed, eyes, shrug shoulders, silence, mind, welcome, calm. Just be feel good, hold space. Listen out, feel free. Just be sit there, look around, listen up, breathe deep.

Hello me hmm That is beautiful steve. I love that. And I love hello me at the end. That's just amazing. Wow. I love it. Um so do you feel when you're are you kind of writing some of this to yourself do you think? Oh yeah, yeah. It's in some ways it's very self centered but in being self centered it allows people to go holy mackerel. That's me. And so the reflections in here is in the book is with for example, just Beagles. When was the last time you just stopped? We're still and we're being just with yourself and your thoughts. When was the last time you did that for five minutes or 10 minutes or 20 minutes even or half an hour or an hour now. Most people can't answer that.

I don't know, you know when you didn't have your phone and social media, you weren't watching netflix, you weren't with friends, you weren't having a drink. Um you know, you weren't listening to music, it was just you just you and you were just being and you were just being you, when was the last time you did that? Mm hmm. And now steve tell me for people who kind of um you know, are stuck and struggling and don't know where to start. What is some practical guidance for that person. Yeah. So the two things come to mind straight away is just find time to just be and and listen to whatever guidance comes to you, listen to what your heart says. Um you know, we're stuck so much in our egoistic mind. Um you know where it's rushing and it's it's all survival based and um, you know, it's really urgent and the more we can get out of that and and open up to our heart space and open up to our heart and find the real us the truth in us.

Um you know, that that is the first thing. So that to me, the first step is just finding time to just be and get to know yourself because I don't know if anyone else, but, you know, with with kids when, especially when they're growing up, life is busy, you know, and it's so easy just to get caught on that treadmill, that hamster wheel of just business and so if we can just stop and and find what it is for you to bring some balance. And the, I think the second big thing Sue is the, when I was in the Peruvian amazon doing Ayahuasca, the support workers there. Um because it's, it's a fairly grueling ceremony where you purge a lot. And one of the things they said is that, you know, at your lowest ebb when you feel really, really bad and it's three am and dark and you're purging, remember this too shall pass. And it's something that I've never forgotten when, whenever I'm feeling down or I'm feeling depressed or I'm even when I'm really happy, I just remember that this too shall pass and like day turns into night, night turns into day, summer turns to winter, um you know, we enter into spring and summer, like all of those parts of nature, we have all of those different times in our life.

Yet if we only seek the times we are quote unquote happy. It's a very fruitless search. So whatever you're going through at the moment, understand like the seasons like the like nature this too shall pass. I love that, that is beautiful steve and now, you know, let me ask you. So one of the things you help people figure out is their dharma or how to follow their dharma for people who don't know, can you tell people what dharma is and then talk to us a little bit about that. Yeah, sure. So your dharma is your mission in life, what you're here to accomplish from, let me let me put it this way from a spiritual perspective, you know, not just your job, although it could be your job, although a lot of people I find are just in a job to pay the bills and have not really connected with their true purpose here in in the world and the more we can look, I would love to say, look, hey, so here's a magic pill.

Just go and just go and take it and you will figure all of this out, if only right, I'm still, I still work on myself every day, I still have my mentors, I go to, I still have um you know, times when I feel down and um you know, and get nervous before talking, doing a presentation and all of those things, I still have all of those human qualities and the more we can get to know ourselves, the more we can understand what we are actually here for and like I said, it's at the very start, it's our tendency is to look without a new this and new that new clothes, new shoes and I'll be happy, whereas when we look within and we find by being still by just being, when we start looking within, then we can find the answers to what that is, but it is not a magic pill, it is a process and it is a process that is fun but also horrible at the same time because you have to own up to and face things about yourself that you may not have liked and you also have to figure out is what I'm doing, what I really want to do or is what I'm doing, what other people want me to do and other people would be family and friends, partners, religion, society.

We are very, very, almost trained by those forces outside of us to be a certain way. And you know, I'm a big believer in our own personal sovereignty and that's from little things like people please our current people pleaser which is a very disempowering state to doing what you want to do in every moment. And people go, well isn't that selfish? Yes. And it's my life, wow. And and now tell me steve, you know, as far as finding your dharma like, so it's it's kind of this, what is your purpose really write this deeper, what are you here to do? What is your purpose that is meaningful, that's going to help with your own soul evolution. And is that accurate? Yes. Yeah. And yeah, and and like I said, many of us are trapped in jobs just to pay the bills which has nothing to do with what we're actually here to do.

And it's not an easy conversation to, it really isn't because there's so many layers of like I said expectations, you know, who is on, I'm a, I'm a high, high performing, highly paid lawyer, but I'm miserable and I don't want to do that. That's a really hard conversation to have with one yourself to your partner and through your family and for the people you work for for for example, you know, so I don't pretend it's easy in any way, shape or form. Um but if if the, if it's burning within you enough, you will find a way to do it. Now. I left the security of, you know, I would have, I would be a principal now, you know, running schools and having impact on people's lives, but I was miserable doing it now. The common wisdom said, you've got your career path set, why would you go and do something that is not that that is not safe, that is unknown. Um but I just knew I had to, I had to get out just for my soul was um you know, I was just screaming at me, this is not for you anymore.

You know, I would just encourage um everyone listening to don't ignore those voices. I ignored it for too long. Um you know, I'm like, I'm trying not to be down on myself about it, but for God's sake man, listen, listen. Um yes, so that's a more lighthearted way of looking at it and you know, steve like for people though who don't, a lot of people don't know how to listen. I mean to themselves especially right, let alone other people. But how does someone who doesn't understand this way of being deeper, who feel stuck? Where does that person begin? Mm I think, I mean this sounds very cliche but it's that old chinese proverb of the you know, the journey of 1000 steps or 1000 miles begins with the first step. Um one thing that my life has proven is that when you commit yourself to something, you will be surprised at what doors open up for you.

Um I I'm just trying to think of who it was, it might be mel Robbins. I heard her say that thinking about our dreams only haunts us. Taking action towards our dreams is what liberates us and gives us confidence and so whatever action you can take to find that path. And now an action doesn't necessarily have to be business and action could be spending three months, one day a week for three months, going sitting by yourself under a tree somewhere and seeing what comes to you. You know, it might mean on your holiday you leave the family behind for four days and go and stay in a hotel somewhere and just see what comes to you. You know, the thing is that there is because of the diversity of the human experience and our personalities and um upbringing and all of those sorts of things. I really don't think there is a one size fits all.

You know as in you do this then you do this, then you do this. But the more you can be with yourself and deliberately selfishly blocking everything else and take time for yourself it surprises me how often those answers come. Mhm I love that steve. We are on the same page. I do a lot of you know soul work. I'm in silence a lot every single day. Every single week I practice mindfulness and so much you know, still after decades of doing it, it's still so revelatory, right? There's still things just keep coming up. It's like wow, so it really is a lifelong process now. So steve, first of all I just want to say thank you so much for all of your wisdom and insights and your time today. You have been amazing.

Thank you. Thank you. That's very humbling. I appreciate the kind words, Oh you're very welcome. And now let me ask you in closing if there were one message, some words of wisdom insight, what would you like to leave us with? Yeah, stop looking outside of yourself for the answers. I don't believe that we grasp our true power or the value of the power that lies within us. We have been so conditioned by society of religion etcetera etcetera. To look outside of ourselves for answers and the more we can connect with ourselves and in nature um that to me is where where the journey begins and where truth can be found time connecting with ourselves. I'm connecting with nature. Mm I love it. Steve. That was awesome. Thank you so much. Pleasure. So thank you.

Thanks for having me on. And hopefully it's been valuable to your listeners. Oh, yes. So many amazing insights. You've been awesome. Thank you. Yeah.