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#159 Black Cancer Genes on Breast Cancer

by Kira Dineen
October 15th 2021

We are ecstatic to announce that DNA Today won the Best 2021 Science and Medicine Podcast Award More

I am ecstatic to announce that DNA today won the best 2021 science and medicine podcast award, huge thank you to all your listeners who nominated and voted for the show. It's such an honor to win this award two years in a row. So as you might recall, this is a people's choice award. So it truly is thanks to your support that we won and I have to say it's been such a fun journey over the last nine years, hosting and producing DNA today and that's because of you listeners that we have the amazing sponsors that we do that keep the show running. So thank you all again from the bottom of my heart, we have so many more episodes to bring you and I hope you keep tuning in to learn more about genetics. Thank you again. How is it that we find ourselves surrounded by such complexity, such elegance. The genes of you and me, jeans are few and they're all made of DNA were all made of the same chemical DNA. We're all made of being a Hello, you're listening or watching DNA today we are genetics podcast and radio show.

I'm your host here, Dean. I'm also a certified genetic counselor practicing in the prenatal space on this show. We explore genetics impact on our health through conversations with leaders in the field, experts like genetic counselors, researchers, doctors and patient advocates in honor of breast cancer awareness month I enjoyed by two representatives from black cancer genes, attorney writer and B. R. C. A. Awareness advocate, erika stallings and cancer genetic counselor and gen X. Content creator Dina Goldberg who is also known as Dina DNA, which many people may know from social media. The aluminum mission is to improve human health by unlocking the power of the genome with a luminous sequencing by synthesis technology. They have only just begun to discover the true impact of genomics and areas including oncology, reproductive health, genetic disease, agriculture, microbiology and beyond knowing the discoveries that lie ahead is what inspires alumina to push the boundaries of their imagination and constantly drive innovation to learn more, visit aluminum dot com.

Do you or someone you know have Prater Willy's syndrome? Harmony Biosciences looking for people with Prader Willi syndrome to enroll in a new clinical study in the United States. Harmony Biosciences will be studying the safety and impact of an investigational medicine on excessive daytime sleepiness, cognition and behavioral function in people with Prader Willi syndrome. Use the link in the show notes to learn more about the clinical study and refer a patient to a study center. The link is also available at DNA podcast dot com. So thank you so much both for coming on the show, Really appreciate you shedding some light on black cancer genes. I'd like to start out with what the goal of the organization is and what you provide people Dina did you want to get started on that and then we can hear from ERika. Sure, so black cancer genes is a culturally tailored initiative to raise awareness of hereditary cancer specifically in the black community. And we're doing that by highlighting both patients and their stories as well as health care providers, genetic counselors, all of these different people who are part of the black community um in hopes that we can really get people um to test more because we know that the rates of these hereditary cancer syndromes in the black community are higher than what a lot of people think.

So we are hoping to get more members of the black community both in the clinic to get genetic testing as well as in the career of genetic counseling and other healthcare roles. Yeah. Just to add to what Dina said, I also think the goal is and I'll talk about this more during the podcast. But when I was going through my own experience with genetic counseling and testing, I just didn't really see a resource like this that existed and we know from the research that for for black patients lose for black women. Hearing stories from other women who have undergone genetic counseling and testing are dealt with hereditary cancer is a really important part of the decision making process. And so really it's about providing a platform to increase awareness in this community and to also provide information that we know the community is looking for. And you may be familiar to people genetic counselors that were at sGC last year. We did virtual. But you had an amazing speech that I took notes throughout everything.

I'm like, we've got to get her on the podcast at some point. So it's just it's so nice to have you on and to have this perspective, as we said, we're going to explore your journey to this point and everything. I want to know more about how you decided to partner up in in the start of this organization. Um Dina, do you want to start us out again? Yeah, so that's exactly why we started because of Erica's speaking at sGC. Um, I didn't know that for for reference. I know it's so funny. So I also saw her speaking was not only moved but realized that there was this gap and when she described what she thought should be, I thought I think I can help her with that. So I reached out to her and I was like, you know what? I have these resources, I have this community I've built on social media. Um and I have this experience in both graphic design and marketing. And I wanted to kind of put all that together to help with this project. And so we teamed up and we were doing a lot of talks on clubhouse and on other social media platforms.

And then we also found a black oncologist who is also very passionate about the project. And so we work with dr Ryland Door as well. But that's really how it started was this talk that I watched her and her message and just thought let's make a change. And diving into some of the genetics. Um The most common genes I think people are aware of in terms of all genetic conditions are the B. R. C. A. One and two genes. What is the breast cancer risk with those genes? Are they different? Because there is two genes there. I think some people just hear O. B. R. C. A. It's like one gene. Um What are the differences between those two genes? Yeah so they're different but they're pretty similar when it comes to what we recommend for people who have those mutations or have disease causing changes in those jeans. So uh usually depending on the source you look at um the quote the quote is usually that a woman who has a female who has B. R. C. A. One or two pathogenic variant or disease causing genetic change has up to probably the low eighties percent chance of developing breast cancer.

Um Depending on which gene there's also an increased risk for ovarian, pancreatic and prostate for men melanoma. Um And also male breast cancer which is one that doesn't get mentioned a lot. So it's not just breast cancer but but those as well. And really there are these differences but like I said earlier the screening we recommend is the same whether you have the R. C. A. One or B. R. C. A. Two mutations. Yeah I think that's a good overview of that. It's not just breast cancer, but then highlighting within breast cancer that male breast cancer is an aspect of this that often gets overlooked in terms of, you know, in the genetic counseling field are very focused on that. But coming from like, you know, just the public in general that's not always highlighted and people are surprised to learn that males can develop breast cancer. Um someone that was in the news with this is Beyonce's father. Uh and Erica you wrote a really interesting article in the new york times for this. Can you share how this impacted people's awareness of breast cancer, especially in the black community?

Yeah, that's a really interesting question. I don't know if I've necessarily seen the impact that I would have liked to see because I do think in contrast, like when you look at someone like Angelina Jolie and her op ed, like her coming out and making that announcement, like, we know that that had an impact and effect on the amount of people who sought out genetic counseling and testing. I have seen him be very active in the breast cancer community and I actually did a panel a few months ago on racial disparities in genetic testing that he showed up for, which was very exciting. I don't know if I've seen that same, like, galvanizing conversation yet around it the way that it was um you know the way that was for Angelina Jolie. And I even think about is a little bit off from your question. Like, someone like Chadwick Boseman, we know that at a really young age died of colon cancer and his brother also had colon cancer.

So the whole time I was thinking to myself like, oh I wonder if that family has ever gone through, you know, genetic counseling and testing and I certainly use that as an opportunity to push some people to get genetic counseling and testing, right? So I do think those celebrity moments are galvanizing. I just think there's more to be done. Yeah, I think that's very well said and that, you know, for a lot of people that's fresh news of hearing about Chadwick Boseman and and that, you know, us in the genetics community were like, you know, we really hope that healthcare wise that his family has been able to get genetic testing, that maybe people talking about that that will get back to the family. So that if that's not something they've done before that they could do. Um And for people that are not familiar, I'd be surprised, but if people are not familiar with Angelina Jolie's background on that in 2013, she made headlines sharing her B. R. C. A. One mutation status. Um And it had a huge impact in terms of like we call it the Jolie effect of just seeing in cancer genetics. Just like really I've heard from cancer genetic counselors that were practicing at the time and just overnight.

It was overwhelming to see just how many people were coming for genetic counseling. Picture genetics is unique. DNA testing service. Their picture wellness kits allow you to learn your genetic risk for cancer and cardiovascular conditions including the BRC a jeans that we talked about throughout this episode. Unlike other companies, this is actually a clinical grade test where physicians and genetic counselors are involved, the test sequences entire genes that are medically actionable. It's easy to order and understand with good looking reports To order your kit, go to picture genetics.com and use code DNA today for 25% off and free shipping. Get actual genetic insights today to benefit your health of tomorrow. I want to become a genetic counselor, curious to learn more about the field. You should attend the virtual open houses at Sarah Lawrence College and these events. You will learn more about what it's like to be a genetic counselor. You'll also have the opportunity to ask your questions live. You can hear insight about counseling master's degree program at Sarah Lawrence College.

I graduated from the program last year and I'm really looking forward to attending and chatting with you all the next open houses on October 28 with another open house on December seven. Sarah Lawrence College is where genetic counseling was founded in 1969 and was the first program of its kind. It remains the largest genetic counseling program in the world. One in five genetic counselors graduated from the program, which means has an expansive alumni network, some of whom you can meet during these open houses like myself. Go to slc dot e D U slash DNA today or use the link in the show notes to sign up for the free genetic counseling Open houses. Don't forget to mark your calendar for october 28th at nine p.m. Eastern and december 7th at six p.m. Eastern. I'll see you there for more than 20 years. Aluminum has aspired to improve human health by unlocking the power of the genome Now through innovation and collaboration, aluminum is enabling genomic breakthroughs in immunotherapy biomarker discovery and therapy selection. The opportunity to transform tumor profiling with innovative essays that enable comprehensive genomic profiling new companion diagnostic development and liquid biopsy inspires aluminum to push boundaries and drive innovation as aluminum moves towards precision medicine, they've only just begun to discover the true impact of genomics, join these leaders at aluminum dot com so you two can improve human health by unlocking the power of the genome again.

That's aluminum dot com. I L L U M N I A dot com. Eric I'd love to hear more about your journey and how you got here today about genetic testing and in terms of if you feel comfortable sharing your family history and and the health care providers you met with to start understanding all of this information for you. Yes, I will. I just you what you said Just made me think of something. I think that there is I think that we have done a poor job overall of educating minority communities about their cancer risk as a whole. And so I think I think like that that's a part of the reason why I like these Matthew Knowles announcements and some that have the same impact because people aren't necessarily thinking of themselves as being higher risk for cancer. Although we know that cancer has a disproportionate impact on minority communities. And so I think it actually and I think we're gonna talk about this later. Like what drives a person to get genetic counseling. They have to know that it is relevant to that.

And so if you have never thought about cancer as hereditary or thinking of yourself as someone who is higher risk because of racial disparity is you know or you've never you don't know what a genetic counselor is. That announcement may not have the same impact on you. And that that does dovetail with my own story and I and I always tell people, I recognize I have a lot of privilege. My grandmother was a nurse. My best friend is a pediatrician who happens to be married to a cancer researcher at U. N. C. But my BSA story really starts with my mom. My mom is a two time breast cancer survivor who has not been a remission for 14 years. She had cancer for the first time in 1993 which is a couple of years before the discovery of the Bureau C'e one gene. She had cancer again my senior year of college in 2007. And it was upon her second cancer diagnosis that her oncologist recommended that she undergo genetic counseling and testing. And because my mom's treatment was at UNC hospitals which is where I was finishing my senior year, I went to I went to a lot of her doctor's appointments with her.

So I knew back then when my mom tested positive for a BRC BRC two mutation that I had a 50% chance of having it as well. And when I was 26 I was 28 I decided I was like Oh I'm really I'm the same age as my mom was when she was diagnosed with cancer for the first time. I should figure out if I am also carrying this high risk mutation. And I was gonna say genetic counselor at Memorial Sloan Kettering. Memorial Sloan Kettering has a very long wait list or I had a very long wait list at the time. So I wind up seeing a woman named Dr Julia smith who is an oncologist who's also board certified to do genetic counseling. And she has a clinic at N. Y. U. Where she works with young women who are high risk for cancer either due to a mutation or just family history. So I met with her in June 2014. She is actually the person conducting my genetic counseling. And then when the results came back we worked together to put together a treatment plan. And because of my family history recommended that I have uh proactive expect me as soon as possible.

So my care team was you know for the surgical aspect, my breast surgeon, my plastic surgeon. One thing I always highlight with Garcia. I know it's breast cancer awareness month brcm mutations are linked to risk of other cancers. So I now see an O. B. G. Y. N. Who specializes in gynecologic oncology to do screenings every six months. I will start having uh cool mask weight colon cancer screening soon. I have I have visited with gi uh doc's about the pancreatic cancer risk. And I also see a dermatologist to screen for melanoma and an ophthalmologist to screen for melanoma and melanoma. And I so as you can see it's a really really broad care team and I actually still see dr smith every six months for like a baseline check in of like have you done this? Hey this new research came out for example, I actually just had I just had a multi gene panel test done because my genetic testing was you know roughly seven years old.

And she's like oh I just want to see if there's anything else out there, right? Because the more we know about you, the more we can prevent you from developing cancers. So knock on wood as this episode is being taped. I have not heard back yet, which I think is a good thing. Yeah. No, it's certainly a lot of, as you said, just different specialists to see throughout your life and follow up that some people may hear, oh, you have a high risk. They think breast cancer. If someone decides to have like you did a prophylactic bilateral mastectomy, then oh, you're all set and that's not necessarily the case, that it's it's involved in terms of care and follow up. Um and I don't hear that talked about too much in terms of like those wrists and just that daily and in that life of just having to follow up with all those appointments. Yeah, I tell people, I think the best analogy that I can make is that having a mutation in some ways is like having a chronic condition in the sense that it is something that has to be managed for a pretty, I mean for a pretty long time. So like, you know, I'm pretty like the mastectomy dropped my breast cancer risk from somewhere between 70 80% less than 5%.

So I feel good about that, but I'm still dealing with the ovarian cancer risk and you know, when my Philippine tubes and ovaries are out then I feel like that's behind me. But then I'll be navigating the pancreatic cancer risk, you know, in the colon cancer risk. Right? So it's like an ever moving target in some ways. Yeah, I think that's very well said and I wanted to circle back to one of the concepts you were highlighting earlier of just having health care providers more educated about genetic counseling. So we end up having more patients referred to genetic counseling, whether that be a genetic counselor or another health care provider that is board certified in genetic counseling. Like you were talking about the doctor you met with um Dina, do you have thoughts on how we can do better at educating these other providers so that we end up having more of these referrals? Yeah. So first of all I think that when we talk about um these cancer genes a lot of times there are certain ethnicities that are mentioned more than others. Um For instance, the Ashkenazi jewish population, we know has a 10 times higher chance of having a.

B. R. C. A mutation than the typical european population. Um but we know that the rates of these VR CIA and other breast cancer gene mutations among um those in the black community are about in between those two. So I think that when we focus a lot in education on certain ancestry groups it causes this uh almost disparity because people assume if you're not part of that ancestry group, you're not as much at an increased risk and we know that in genetics everybody has some sort of risk. And um and so you can't tell somebody that if they have a strong family history that they shouldn't test just because they're of a certain ethnicity because that's really ancestry based medicine and that's not what we should be practicing uh in terms of who should have these genetic services for hereditary cancer. Um So I think it's partly in the education of providers.

Uh a lot of genetic counselors are part of the medical programs that develop the material that medical students learn about when it comes to genetic counseling and cancer genetics. And so if you yourself are somebody who works on developing that material, try and make your sample situations more diverse. I think that that kind of hammers home that really anybody can be can have one of these mutations. So that's one thing. And the other thing I think is just uh finding ways to get out there and spread the message that we really should not be limiting these services to just one group of people. Um and I also think, you know part of black cancer genes, part of this resource that eric and I are building is aimed at medical professionals. So our goal is is hoping to get out there both at probably an academic setting as well as maybe on social media where we can educate both health care providers and patients about these risks in the black community.

And you bring up the other side of it of, we can be educating healthcare providers, but the other side would be educating the black community and Erica you really focused on this in your sGC presentation and I was just very struck as we were saying before of your perspective on it and just how we need to do better. Reaching out directly to the black community. Do you have recommendations on how people in genetics can do better at that? But also just other people that are maybe related to genetics or work in genetics? Yeah, I think a really large part of it is just meeting people where they are. So for example, I did sort of a hybrid like panel Q and a event back in, I think it was March or april of 2021 in partnership with a genetic counselor and it was promoted to several black women legal organizations. We had 100 plus people show up for this virtual event because so many people had just never had an opportunity to directly here from a genetic counselor and just hear about that process and ask questions and get that understanding.

So I think that events like that. So like professional organizations, historically, historically black sororities as well as fraternities because if you know, men can carry these mutations, I think partnership, you know, like something I would love to do whenever the world like opens up again. It's something like essence festival which is this huge gathering of black women right? Every july right? And using like having events where people are I think is a really big one. And I think another thing that genetic counselors can do indirectly following up what we were talking about is we know that black women are much more likely to have conversations when they are high risk with a primary care provider or O B G Y N. So also figuring out ways to better educate those groups so that they are then making the referral to the specialist because there is a racial disparity like in who people have these conversations with white women are much more likely to have a conversation about being high risk with a specialist gynecologist.

Black women are much more likely to have it with someone who's not as knowledgeable. And so I think that's another gap to be bridged. That then helps with the overall disparities in genetics. Being able to meet people where they are. So they have the education and know what their steps are to get to see a genetic counselor as you said, have those conversations with doctors that they're already meeting with for other reasons, other general health care practices want to chat with genetic counselors, you should attend the virtual open houses at Sarah Lawrence College in these events, you can learn what it's like to be a genetic counselor and you'll have the opportunity to ask your questions live. You can also hear insight about the genetic counseling master's degree program at Sarah Lawrence College. It is the largest program in the world, which means there are so many alumni to connect with, including myself. I graduated from the program last year and I'm really looking forward to chatting with you. The next open houses on october 28th followed by december 7th, go to slc dot e D u slash DNA today or use the links in the show notes to sign up for the free genetic counseling.

Open houses. I'll see you there since your DNA today listener picture genetics is offering you an exclusive 25% discount for their DNA test kits. Picture of genetics is different from a traditional direct consumer test because it's clinical grade testing with every case reviewed by a health care provider. Results are focused on health with medically actual information. If this episode sparked curiosity about your own genetics, especially for hereditary cancer syndromes, check out their picture wellness kit and includes the B. R. C. A jeans along with other genes known to play a role in cancer predisposition syndromes such as lynch syndrome and lee from any syndrome, Here's how it works. You send the tube of spit to their lab scientists then sequenced genes related to cancer in cardiovascular conditions. This means they read through a gene to see if there was a mutation or pathogenic variants. As we genetic counselors call them. Then you receive a beautifully easy to read report informing you about your risk. Here's my favorite part. There's also genetic housing included to help you walk through your results, order your own kid at picture genetics.com and use Codina today for 25% off and free shipping again.

That's picture genetics.com. Get actual genetic insights today to benefit your health of tomorrow. If you have patients with Prader Willi syndrome, please let them know about a new clinical study. Looking for participants across the United States, Harmony Biosciences will be studying the safety and impact of an investigational medicine. The study will focus on excessive daytime sleepiness, cognition and behavioral function in people with Prader Willi syndrome. The study participation is four months long and consists of five visits. If you're a patient at your visits, you will participate in sleep tests and have general check ins on how you're feeling. You'll also need to keep a sleep diary for the first two weeks in a closing diary. Once you start treatment, if you're a caregiver, you'll attend all visits with the patient and help provide information to the trial researchers. There are 13 trial sites in the United States and Harmony Biosciences will reimburse patients to travel to their closest site, refer yourself a patient or a loved one to the study by visiting the link in the show notes, which is also available at DNA podcast dot com.

And something that you said earlier Dina about going off of ancestry as a way of screening people as one form of screening with the there is called the N C C N guidelines. So these are like the cancer guidelines um that we use to see if people are eligible for genetic testing are kind of recommended to be are these guidelines inclusive of people in the black community? Are we missing people in general because the guidelines need to be updated or they're just too restrictive. Like what's your perspective on those? Yeah. That's something that eric and I have talked about before because of a lot of this newer data that's been released this year. Right. And I think it's definitely something that needs to be considered because of the prevalence of these mutations in the black community. Um I think it's a little harder because um figuring out how to categorize somebody when when it's not really a genetic line. Right? It's it's a group which is different from when we talk about Ashkenazi jews, it really is a uh more of a of its own gene pool.

And so it's harder to do that. I think for something that's really a social group to say all these people who are part of this group have higher risks of a genetic change. But you know we have to there has to be some compromise there to be able to include more african american individuals um to be able to get this testing because I do think it is higher than than other groups. And with the testing, if if guidelines and it says like, okay, this person is recommended to get testing. Usually insurance then is more likely to cover it. So that's the other side of it. Even if we're sitting down and we're taking their family history and we see like, I feel like we should offer genetic testing and go down that path. But then you might get into the problem of, you know, is insurance going to cover this? How much is the test is going to be a more individuals in the family going to have to be tested after this. So just all those other questions that come up that come back to if guidelines are inclusive. Yeah. And you know, I think that eventually we're going to get to a point where genetic testing is so easy and cheap and quick that we don't need guidelines anymore or that uh they're gonna be a lot more liberal or you know, there's a lot of potential futures for this.

And so I think at that point that's when it will really be equal and fair. But at this point it is, you know, it's good because it kind of distinguishes who has a higher chance. That's what these guidelines are for. It's it's really a cost benefit analysis. Is this person likely to have a mutation or are they not likely to have it? Let's not waste this this this uh these resources and cost on that. But um it does miss people many a lot of the time it mrs people. And so um it's it's just something to consider when we're thinking about the fairness and the equality of um offering these tests. Especially because a lot of times in this community cost is a big big barrier. And so if insurance is not even going to cover it, it just creates this this one of the big blocks to why not enough people are being even referred for genetic counseling. Much less testing. Yeah, I think that's a good point in just that hopefully we've seen the cost of testing just plummet over over the decades that we've had it.

Um But obviously as that continues, as you said, we're going to get more quality in terms of like who has access to be able to actually order this and with genetic counseling um you know there's there's some bills trying to be passed to increase access to genetic counselors which will hopefully um add to that as well. Um At the top of the show we mentioned, the other topic we're going to talk about is just on the genetic counseling side. Um and that in general there is a shortage of genetic counselor. So in terms of how many genetic counselors there are specifically in the US and Canada being able to meet with patients and have these conversations and help them navigate all of this. What can be really confusing genetic testing and You know who's eligible and all of these details for it. Um but another major issue in that is just the lack of diversity in the field and that only 1% of genetic counselors are in the black community. Um what are your thoughts on how we can raise awareness for the career specifically in other ethnicities? Because our field is primarily white women.

Okay, so my thought, I think that this is all about marketing, I think this is who are we reaching and how are we reaching them and clearly whatever we've been doing, just as an entire field hasn't been working right? So we have to come up with more creative solutions and how to reach people. And I know that the National Society of genetic counselors is really working to um to reach a goal where we have higher percentage of our fields in many different diverse communities. Um but I think that part of our goal with black cancer genes is to find novel ways to reach out to these students, whether that's um social media, whether it's traditional media like television, um podcasts, you know, things like this where we can really like Erica said, meet people where they are and introduce them to the concept of genetic counseling and then get there kind of wheels turning in their heads. Oh, this is something that I could do um also putting more black genetic counselors faces on the site to show that there are people that look like them, that our genetic counselors and so that's one of the reasons we're gonna be highlighting both genetic counselors as well as other health care professionals to, to really just show and give people this idea that they could do this too.

So I think that that's really what we need to be doing and just finding these novel ways to reach these communities that were once completely untouched by the thought of, of genetic counseling or becoming a genetic counselor. And Erica do you have any other thoughts about that in terms of just increasing awareness in terms of this being a viable career option for people? Yes, so it did a story about this in 2018 or 2019 for NPR and I think one of the things that I would really like to see in addition to all, you know, the marketing and awareness is I think you really need scholarship programs for this. Like if you are a black undergrad who has a stem or science background, you have a lot of options available to you. I remember one of the, one of the black genetic counselors I interviewed talked about so many of her mentors tried to steer her to something else? Like, you know, medicine or other things that were deemed to be more lucrative and so I'm very happy that she decided to stick with genetic counseling. So I think that's one thing I think also having more genetic counseling programs or awareness of genetic counseling programs at historically black colleges and universities.

That's another really great resource to tap. But yeah, I think people just have to see that it is a viable option. Again, it's kind of always like starts with like I always call like the flywheel and the fire will like awareness and you kinda have to see yourself in it to think that it is relevant to you. Yeah, I think that's, that's well said and and that these are actual things we can do. It's not just like, oh, we need to raise awareness. You're like, well let's let's start with these points and then expand from there. Um, and with black cancer genes. I mean you're doing that. So you know, I'm excited to see the organization grow and everything that is going to come out of this and all of the resources and just the sense of community that I think is building with your organization and I'm just excited to check back in a few months in a year and say, all right, where are you today? And what's new. Um, so thank you so much both for coming on the show and just sharing your expertise with this. Um, this is a really, really important topic that I think needs to have more awareness. Um and I just want to thank you both for for being advocates in this space and speaking up and educating people.

Absolutely. And cure. I have one more thing I want to add. So when when we're talking about students who are interested in becoming genetic counselors specifically in the black community, there is a project uh that's going on called Golden D. N. A. And it is specifically to uh mentor black students from applying to graduate school through graduate school and through their early career. And so it's I think it is such a cool program I heard straight from the um from Barbara Harrison and Grace and say who are the founders of it? And it just sounds really awesome. So if you are listening and you are a black student interested in genetic counseling, that is an option Golden DNA and we're going to have a link to that as well as black cancer genes dot com. Um All at D. N. A podcast dot com. So you can go there and all of um erika's articles that we've kind of talked about our, you know, indirectly mentioned.

Those are all going to be there as well. Um so that will be kind of your hub for all the information we talked about because sometimes it's hard, you're listening to podcasts. Like there's all these things that I want to keep track of. So we'll have it all at DNA podcast dot com and if you're interested in keeping up with us um Dean and I are super active on social media. So be sure to follow both of us there as well as Erica and you must be a harry potter fan Erica because your twitter handle. No, I love it. My Twitter handles quitters for 24 And when I started doing my activist work I was like, Oh, like I have on college important oncologist following me who were probably like who was acquitted for 24 c. I think it's not, look, I think that's how you connect with people because I feel like that sometimes an interview, harry potter comes up and I'm like, here we go. I could, I could go on about that forever. Um so be sure to follow us on twitter, instagram youtube facebook and any questions for the three of us, you can send it to info at DNA podcast dot com. I'll be sure to send those onto the appropriate people and one last favor, please rate and review us on apple. That is how we can grow the show and thank you both so much for coming on the show.

Really, really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me in a a we're all made of being

#159 Black Cancer Genes on Breast Cancer
#159 Black Cancer Genes on Breast Cancer
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