Everybody Loves Everybody Loves Raymond

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1.1 Pilot

by Post-Fun Podcasts
April 24th 2022
02:14:44
Description

In this too-long premiere episode, the hosts discuss their motivation for doing the podcast, when Raymond revealed himself to each of them, and how Everybody Loves Raymond came to be. Plus, they de... More

welcome everyone to the very first episode of Everybody loves everybody loves Raymond. My name is Adam Rudy and I'm joined by my co hosts, Michael dormer and Alex shear And We are three friends. We are lapsed podcasters who we tried. Let's talk about it a little bit guys. We, you had a pretty long running show, you did it about for about a year, year and a half basically. Dude, do you not remember our two year celebration? Did we do it to your celebration? Yes. Oh my God. All right. I will tell this story, will tell the story mike and I um, we did a 2.5 year run of a podcast called the weekly undertaking where we tried random things every week to try and kind of broaden our horizons. It was a lot of fun. And then we both started to have lives and doing the actual jobs and school and, and, and the podcast became a little bit too difficult to manage.

And then the pandemic hit and it kind of fell apart from there. Sure did. So we're back for more. Yeah. And I had a podcast called Mid Valley Sound, which was a one man improvised musical comedy, um, which was, took many months to make. And then the idea of just continuing it made me very depressed and tired. So the idea here with everybody loves everybody loves Raymond is we're lowering our expectations of ourselves. We're trying not to be ambitious. The podcast market is flooded with a couple of different things. It's flooded with podcasts hosted by three white guys who are not inherently interesting people. It's flooded. Yes, go ahead. And we just want to throw our hat into that ring. Yes. So we're throwing our hat into that ring. 2nd ring. This is like a circus setup.

So multiple rings, Yeah. Second ring uh, re watches of shows from everything from, you know, bonanza to gossip girl to the office. Uh, people are just rewatching shows and talking about them. Sometimes Office ladies always sunny. It's the people who made the shows. Other times, it's people who had no involvement with the show's whatsoever. And that ties into our first ring. Three white guys who are not inherently interesting piece. We had no involvement with everybody loves Raymond at all. It's kind of like a diagram. Yeah, exactly. Well, I will say we have were from, well, two of, two of the three of us are from Long Island. That is where the show takes place. That's the end of our involvement. But that, that, that is uh, that is something, yes, that is definitely something I will talk about that a little bit later, checking my notes now. And yeah, that's, that's gonna be a big chunk of this long.

You know what, let's, let's start over. Just kidding. Um, so yeah, White guys? Re watching a show from 30 years ago is very in right now. And you know what? The other thing that's flooding the podcast market right now is, um, Covid 19 misinformation. So our goal today is going to one of our goals today is gonna be to get that little tag on Spotify that links to covid 19 health resources. Okay. So yeah, this is, this is basically what it's gonna be like. This is everybody loves, everybody loves Raymond and we are everybody and we love Raymond. Um, so that's why we're doing this. We wanted something low effort and enjoyable to keep us in the podcast space because we already paid for the hosting. So we thought we might people like podcast because of the transparency. They feel like they can, they feel like they in the zoom room with us.

I I suppose so yeah, you're not wrong. I guess more transparency for further flavor. For further transparency mike. And I, the gentleman sitting next to me is sitting next to me and where Adam is in a zoom call with us. Adam is joining us from remote this this week. Most likely most Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I don't see, I really, I like you guys a lot. And you are, as I said at the top of the show, my friends, but I don't very straight you were hesitant to say that you were, well, I was racking my brain. Do we have any connection besides just friends? We're not related. We don't work together. We're just friends. Um, I don't see any situation where we're recording this podcast, all three of us together in a room. I'm surprised that you two got together for this, that's more effort than I thought we would put into. Well, you know what? Mike doesn't have very good recording equipment.

I do not, I do not, I do not spend money on. The only reason he's here When this takes off in, you know, Singapore, wherever top 70 on the comedy charts, we will go behind a paywall and we will get you A microphone, one microphone. Thank you. How you connected to your computer is on you. It's on me. I'll just get, I'll just get them, I'll get to pretend stand up every single week if this goes on, if this goes well on our wild. So the goal of everybody loves everybody, loves Raymond is getting mike. The um speaking of stand up, well let's not go there yet. Um I have to go back to my note, I'm sorry, my note about Long Island, my curiosity um is that does Long Island claim Raymond in the same way that you claim billy Joel or you know, I wish that's a great question actually.

And the answer is so we were very young when, when this first took off, it is kind of a point of pride that we have Raymond, but like kind of passing pride, kind of like how you know if you, if you go to flushing, you're not gonna have people screaming out, hey, we're the king of queens, you know, you're not gonna see you're not gonna see that. Um but it's more kind of like, if you're watching everybody loves Raymond and you have someone with Long Island in the room, it from Long Island in the room, you know that within before the episode ends, you're just like, oh yeah, he's from Long Island, just like us, you know, that is, that is the, that is the point of pride where it's uh it's not, it's not something that we will parade. We will not be talking about Raymond on a daily basis until, you know, before now and then. But I think Lynbrook in particular because it's, it's the Lynbrook is a fairly small uh Long Island town. I think that neighborhood in particular claims Raymond very specific way because it's probably the only mention of Lynbrook in any kind of mainstream media and full transparency Alex.

And I both grew up, grew up there, so transparency, transparency. Yeah, we actually, why don't we just docked ourselves at the end of the Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, we, we were both born and raised in the old Brooke of Lynn, sorry Brooke Brooke Brooke Lynn is another very, very, very recognizable place, Brooklyn, absolutely came first. And then basically when Long Island was getting suburbanized, I don't know if that's the actual verb, but suburbanized. Um people from Brooklyn came to Long Island started, started the town and was like, oh, we need a name. I like Brooklyn, how do we, how can we tie that in and they just switched the syllables everything the reverse of Brooklyn, Like exactly. We spell every like, spumoni gardens in Brooklyn is garden spumoni over here. We actually, it's actually a brick for brick recreation.

We just flip some stuff around. You got a lot of park prospects, but you don't have a prospect. It's very speculative. You got that. You got that right, Yeah, we have a ridge Bay. We don't have a ridge. Right. Exactly. Okay, more examples, Berg, William, you went to high school with? Berg William, didn't I? Sure did. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, we need, we need one every single year. We parade. Berg William around in the, in the Lynbrook festival day parade every single year. Is that real festival festival? Absolutely not. No. Like, like Mike said, Lynne broke, the only thing has going for it is Raymond and a train station. Um Okay, um so what more broadly than is your relationship with Raymond? When did Mike did you first discover our good, our friend? I mean, let's, we love him. Honestly, full transparency. We love him. Uh when did you first meet Raymond?

Let's put it in those terms. When did Raymond introduce himself to you? Genuinely? No bs as early as I can remember. The reason, the reason being is because it was one of my parents favorite shows when I was growing up. So like, it was just kind of always on in the background um or not always, but like after dinner at night when we're watching tv as a family, we would always have an episode of everybody loves Raymond on. Um my parents were very careful to switch the channel when the mention of sex came up and stuff like that, because as Raymond mentioned in the beginning of every episode, it's not for the kids um or actually I think that's the season to intro in this show has a lot of different intros. Yeah, yeah, and it turns out that I was reading full transparency, the Wikipedia page and they pitched the show, it almost went to air without an intro and then they had to, they were told by cbs that they had to have a title sequence and later in later episodes in later seasons, I don't think they have a formal intro, I think they earned the right to not have one, but it's true, Yeah, yeah, um but yeah, like so yeah, I mean I don't think this will be my first time ever watching it sitting down pilot to finale, but I definitely have seen a very large percentage of them just by existing in my house.

Yeah, yeah, Alex. When did you, when did Raymond reveal himself to you? You know this is so funny because my experience with Raymond is very different from mix um and I don't know about you will come to you afterwards, thank you. Uh you will include him in the podcast. Why not adam we care about you. You are our friend as well. You know, you're my full transparency transparency. You're my friend transparency regardless. I did not come across Raymond until I was in my undergrad years in college where throughout my life I probably, you know, here or there saw like maybe an episode in the background or something like that. But I never really watched, I never observed Raymond until uh, one point during one year in, in my college journey, I found it on just a streaming service, I want to say netflix and uh, I was like, oh, hey, you know, this will probably be something and then I started watching and then right away, I could not believe they got Manny the mammoth from Ice Age to play Raymond.

You didn't make the connection when you saw the show. Like you didn't know of him on the show, you just knew him as manny. Just the voice that you saw the picture and you're like, that sounds like it looks like a nice young man. I'll watch that show and then you hear him and then it's like you, it's the meme with the numbers floating you guys, I didn't expect you to dissect my bit so intensely, Oh, you're just picking it off. Okay. I didn't realize, you know, you're my friend. Yeah, full transparency. That was just a bit, regardless. I, I then proceeded to watch the entire show from beginning to end over the course of probably a couple of months and at this point this is probably 77 ish years ago. So I don't remember a lot, I remember a few key points of Q, a few key jokes that stick out in my head as like moments, I will never forget.

They were just that hilarious. Um I also remember uh throughout throughout my watch that uh I kind of started standing for frank a lot uh The Raymond's like every time he came in the room you would like, I mean he was a veteran, he's a veteran of Vietnam we learned or Korea, He fought in Korea. Um yeah, no, just kind of just became like really quickly, like absolute favorite character. Oh standing, standing would would stand stand or or gets a bad rap, just your frank, apologized. No, no, no sorry, I was trying to use hip lingo and full transparency, I think I just mispronounced stand or linger too long on the end.

I think you linger, I think the linger was the was the issue, but you know what, full transparency sometimes I say things wrong too. Well, great. Speaking of saying things wrong adam, how do you know Ray, when when did our Lord and Savior come into your life? Well, um speaking of watching an entire show and then not remembering any of it, Alex. My experience with a lot of shows was similar to your experience with Raymond, um I would I watched like all of cheers and Frasier sequentially and um could not tell you very many details about, I can tell you more about Frasier, but I could not tell you very much about cheers. Um but before like netflix came around and made that possible, most of my understanding of Raymond came about by watching the show in syndication on tbs, like every day after school, syndication, syndication is where?

Okay, so clearly listeners, we don't do a lot of research and we don't know everything, We're just three guys, two of us are from Long Island, one of us is not, but we're gonna I know a little bit from my time watching television, so I'm going to explain any terms that come up in full transparency, any terms that come up that you might not be familiar with, so Michael, I'm glad you asked, just as we had scripted it. Um, syndication is um reruns. So uh like a cable network will buy a syndication package of a show where they get the rights to then air like you know the series, sometimes it's the complete series sometimes. But yeah, so every day after school I would come home and watch T. B. S. And they were very uh the sort of predictable sequential nature of it was very satisfying to my young brain because you had friends and then you had Raymond and then you have the king of queens and then you had according to Jim and then you had Seinfeld and then at the end of the day, like at nighttime it would switch back over again and you will get to see the same friends and the same Raymond and the same according to Jim.

Um I didn't not to make it sound like I sat there from like two p.m. To two a.m. Watching sitcoms, but no, I mean I would watch that same full transparency, I would watch that same block like every day for like two hours. Um And then over time, you know, they would show them more or less in order. Um If you missed today, you were kind of fun. But the thing about Raymond is it doesn't matter because nothing changes and there's no there's no long term story to any of it at this point at least. And um yeah, so I would just eventually I would get to the end of from wherever I was when I first started watching it, I would get to the end and then it would, the syndication would start the series over and they would play from season one through and then I would catch up.

I would hope I didn't like watch the same cycle multiple times, but there's no way I didn't, maybe I missed a few and but once we sort of as a family cut the cord when I was like late high school like senior year of high school, um I didn't really pick up with Raymond at all. The only show I really watched in syndication and then again in streaming was Frazier, right? But I never I never revisited Raymond. That's an opportunity for us here. Yeah, that's the whole reason I brought you here is because of me and I feel like I'm missing something in my life transparency. I want to watch everybody loves Raymond. We could profit from this. I don't think we will, but well, Let's tie that into something I wanted to ask you.

Which is so we're here, we are doing it. We're like 12 minutes into it at this point and we're going to be re watching everybody loves Raymond. We're going to invite some of our friends to come on occasionally and watch it with us. What do you hope to get out of this arduous process of watching Ray grow and change? Except not really. And then it's all sort of the same and then it has kind of an ending and then, you know, then you start the syndication of Yeah, well, I'll say this that like, that's kind of also what I'm kind of excited about because I do remember, I mean, we've touched on the fact that like Ray doesn't really change that much, but there are like in later seasons anyway, there are certain arcs that develop, like, like robert changes a lot as a character. Um eventually when we get to see season 89, ali his daughter goes through a lot and you can see her developing as a as a character, but I'm kind of interested in like watching character development happening for some characters and nothing changing for the main guy, Three characters develop very slowly over the course of nine years.

Exactly, and it's also like, I wouldn't like part of me wonders is if we're gonna see like an alternate reality uh um theory emerged from like did this major event where Raymond finally stood up to his, his mom for the 15th time and then nothing changes by the next episode. Is that gonna like, is it just literally like hitting a reset button? Is anything ever reference from the previous episode? I'm kind of curious to see something I thought about two was like how much time is passing in between these episodes, because in the pilot and we'll talk about it, it seems like so we've already mentioned that Ray is very horny throughout the entire series, but um the implication that it has, it has been a while since he and Deborah made love um your face, like what is the, what's the time dilation of this series?

And I think it'll be interesting to see like the effects of events um over like from episode to episode. I mean, I also think that it's also just the difference of like nineties television versus modern television because in the past like Star trek and things like that to even drama series that are very story focused, the idea is alright, maybe you didn't get home from work in time to watch it that day, doesn't really matter next week, you can still pick up and you won't really have missed much. Um and that's entirely different from from today, even we we mentioned before and The Office and other sitcoms, more modern sitcoms, like events happened, relationships change not too much with Raymond, but yeah, and with the advent of streaming services, like these types of shows are the norm now where you're expected to watch every episode one after the next from start to finish because you decide when you watch them.

Yeah, exactly Alex, what do you hope to get out of? I'm hoping to get a few things out of my good old buddy Ray, firstly I am thrilled to see how many times in this show I can spot a boom mic because I casually watching it for my first time, I counted like three or four times, like when I was not even looking for it and this time I'm going to be looking for every instance, we should have like we should have a boom mic counter in the bottom, boom count. So that's one thing I'm very excited to, to see like little little bumps in the road like that um what else am I excited to see? I am interested in seeing kind of, I mean, you guys say that like, you know the show, you know, it's a reset button every week and that is true. Like, the show does not fundamentally change from a plot perspective, but the show in a way and I want to clarify this as we're watching, it grows and changes because it expects the audience to have as it goes further and further along an air of understanding as to what is occurring in the show weekly.

So I want to see like as we progress, is it gonna like kind of amp up like the hum and drum where it's like, okay, this first episode we had to go through the whole song and dance of like providing evidence that the parents are insane. Um like seeing kind of Deborah's reaction and seeing raise cowardice and like as we move forward, maybe seeing those steps kind of get like skipped because we are all very familiar with them at one point and uh and kind of like, see if we can deal with more like the consequences of those based actions because you know, it is going to be very similar things for, for a large portion of the show. That is true. They don't really, it eventually, they don't have to justify the craziness, you just kind of get it it ultimately culminating in a spoiler alert for everyone watching along at home actually culminating in them opening an episode with Marie driving driving the car into the house, which when I, the first time I saw it, I felt was the single funniest moment in all of sitcom history.

Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see because this episode is more of the, and we'll talk about more of the like small, like butting of heads between Ray and Debra and yeah, and Marie and frank. And then as the show goes on and they add more characters and situations, things I'm gonna be interested to see because I don't remember if things become like unrealistic, like crazy, like, you know, does robert kill someone at some point? I don't remember if that happens, it might be based on this episode. It seems like he's like a hair trigger, you know, talked about. Uh, so one that's all very well and good and what I hope to get out of this is I hope that you to get what you want to get out of this. Um, because you know, I know I am um one thing that I'm excited about for this is the possibility of Ray hearing this and going, you know what, that would be fucking beautiful man.

I don't want him to be on, I don't want to like, you know, get any recognition from him. I just want him to know it exists and be like, all right. Um, I kind of love that. I you know what? Same if we can bring joy to worst case we'll, we'll buy a cameo from him. Oh, I wonder if he's, I bet I met someone from that show definitely on cameo in the break. We'll look and see if anyone's on cameo. But for now I want to talk a little bit about the show as a whole. So, um, I'm gonna let Ray explain the premise here across the street. That's right. The truth is I do anything for my family done alright, well he's already explained it then.

Oh my God, I just like with that clip being audio alone, it just like I imagined that was the sound of him stuffing a body and done. So he um, he lives with his uh, his twin boys and his daughter. Um, I wish he was like that. That would be a much better intro to the very different series. But yeah. Um, so I want to talk about where this premise comes from. So Ray has been a stand up. This is 1996. Ray has been a stand up for about 12 years. He's toured, he's, you know, been on tv a couple times and then he does this Letterman appearance in like 1995 and this is the time of Roseanne and Home improvement where they're taking basically taking any comic and putting them in a family situation and then suddenly that's a show.

Um, and then they have opportunities to work in their jokes and stuff. So I want to play a little bit of, he does this Letterman appearance. Um, which according to the Wikipedia page, full transparency. He does this set, which is like five minutes long and then lawyers are quote lining up to sign him to a development deal. So I just want to play a little bit of it and you know, maybe it was the time or maybe it was like, I don't know, I'm not gonna set any expectations. But here we are. Ladies gentlemen. Next guest is a very funny comedian making his first appearance with us tonight. He can also be seen all this week at the comedy stop at the trop in atlantic city. Do me a favor now please. A nice welcome for ray romano. Little brown eyed girl for ray. I wonder why. Well, thank you, wow. Thank you again, wow, you're too good almost good. I'm glad it's great to be back here in my hometown new york.

I've been traveling and the crowds aren't as good. I was in actually, I was in Montreal Canada last week. Yeah. Uh huh. Beautiful city. I learned some french. They're, they're all bilingual. That's what amazed me in Montreal. I went into a burger king. The burger king employees are required to be bilingual. Just think about that for a second folks. Have you, have you been to burger King in new york? Yeah, they're not even lingual here. Okay, so all right we're gonna, we're gonna stop after that. So you're a lawyer and you're watching this said. And um the first, the first joke, there's a lot of build up and he's, you know, really warming the crowd up. Maybe he's nervous. I don't know. But he has been Doing this for 12 years. Is this is like network television? I don't Know. I don't think so. He was on evening at the improv in like 90, which is an interesting set that I suggest you um um look up because it's a little homophobic.

But um yeah, so you're watching this and this was a different time for stand up. Um Yeah. So the comedy boom is happening and maybe standards are a little lower because the market is so saturated. You're making a lot of excuses that killed like it did kill. No, that's that's what I'm saying. Like to our sensibility, that joke sucks. It's barely anything. It's airline food level. So does he, does he drop, I don't know if this is the end of the of the bid. Let me, let's see. Let's see. Actually, I do think it goes this is for lingual hamburger hamburger hamburger. Take it out here. I'll put little feet on my hamburger there. They're bilingual. Said it again. This comedy routine is sponsored by burger king.

Take them somewhere. So this is getting into the material that then we build the show on, you know, this makes good. I was a little worried. He was gonna do it Tight five specifically on Burger king, but it Would be a loose five. Pretty pretty lingual. I have, yeah, I have a three year old daughter and twin two year old boys. Well let's interrogate the for just a second. The applause break for twins as I had sex twice. No. Okay, let's stop down for a second because we have to explain something. Uh, he didn't do anything to get twins and it was a purely random coincidence that he got twins and yet I don't know. Maybe the audience is just applauding the notion of Children again, it was a different yeah. Okay. I think it's supportive.

I have to leave my house just to make phone calls now you can't, no one really wants to talk to you on the phone when you got kids running around every business call, I try to make, I screw up eventually. Yeah. Yeah. The 15th is fine. I just need to know where do you think you're going with that cookie? Put the cookie down. Not you. Sorry, sorry, I didn't mean to scare you. I didn't know you were eating a cookie. That's funny now he picks up steam. And I also think that that could work today with like stuff like that. I think he once he and this is something that was interesting because I watched the one from 90 and then I watched this one like when he starts, this is 95. Okay. Um, when he starts out, he's doing sort of like hack kind of material is like very almost like leaning into the everyman thing, but he doesn't really have a point of view. And I think once he starts leaning into the family stuff and has that experience to talk about, that's when his identity sort of comes out and that's when the jokes are a little more unique and a little better, like the burger king stuff, not so strong, the twin stuff, you know, pretty much stronger.

Pretty okay. Yeah, it's, it's fascinating now because yeah, that, that makes sense that he would then go on to do this show. I mean, like you said, like family kind of situational sitcoms were big for comedians during this time, but for Ray, it actually seemed like it was a reasonable fit. Yeah, I mean, I don't know much about tim Allen's act beyond the, you know, the grunting and the casual misogyny, but um, I don't know how much of it was like based on his actual experience, you know, other more more so than just stereotypes, but with Ray, you really get the sense that, you know, this is his experience that he's speaking to. And I think he goes on to talk about, I'm gonna scrub it a little bit, He goes on to talk about, um, like the whole italian mom thing. But let me show you the, this is the thing. So after this set, a bunch of lawyers apparently come back and try to sign him to a development deal.

He eventually signed a development deal with David Letterman's production company, Worldwide pants. And they then look for a showrunner to create this show. They end up going to Phil Rosenthal who had sent them a fraser spec script because they also did Frazier and for the listener spec script is when a writer writes a script that they have not been hired to write and then tries to sell it to a show. I read his faces, look of utter confusion. Um, but they go to Phil Rosenthal and they show him a tape of Ray Ray makes this tape that they send around to show runners where he does a little bit of his act and talks about himself. This is the, the joke that convinces Phil Rosenthal to do the show write jokes because all I do is try to make them laugh all day. That's what happens when you're a parent, you're a comedian for them. I can make them laugh. I can make an infant laugh in a second. I'll tell you, I'm losing my perspective on adult humor. I wrote one new joke since my twins were born Here.

Is this funny? What do you think it is? Hi for context. He was jingling his keys in front of the audience. He was jingling his keys, which chuckle chuckle worthy. Good joke. Right. I mean, good enough. I mean it's good enough to get a good enough show like it's nine seasons based on jingling I mean, yeah, exactly. I mean mike, can I borrow your keys? It's been done, I'm afraid Dammit. I'll say this. Like also so Raymond debuted in what, 96, 76. Okay, so like around this time was also the full house era. Right? Um Um Yes, full full house is still on full house started in the late 80s. Okay, so here's the thing, right? We're, we're kind of sitting here basically. Our narrative is like, what the hell did they see in in Raymond?

Ray romano that was so special that they got everybody loves Raymond but also keep in mind they got bob Saget who great comedian but one of the dirtiest comedians to ever exist and they were so desperate for a family tv show that they were like, hey, you want to work with with Children and make iconic family family sitcom for 12 years a long time. The first run was like eight and then fuller house had like five, so like 14 years on the air altogether. So again, it's kind of like, you know, you see the successful house of any comedian that seems to be able to do this is a cash cow. Like we all still talk about home improvement. We all at least the Roseanne was is a pretty constant topic. Um mostly because of her modern behavior, but let's take a moment to um Yeah, I think in case that wasn't clear, in case that wasn't clear. Yeah, I think let's make a habit of any time somebody problematic comes up either on the show or in conversation here, we're going to make sure that we explicitly disavowed them.

And if we don't, that means that's an implicit endorsement and you don't, you don't, if you cancel us, we will accept it and we will not clarify that we actually disavow them and one strike, one strike, one strike you're out. But I guess I guess my point is just like if you're sitting at home watching this guy who's apparently crushing in front of these people doing family humor, if you're a tv producer you're dialing the phone as before the act is done. So I get it. I do. I think this was still the era where you know, it wasn't to the extent of if johnny Carson calls you over to the couch, you get a show the next day, but there still was power to in the hands of late night too create this sort of thing to give someone a platform to show their uh point of view and then to have that be made into a show, but like yeah what you're saying about bob Saget makes sense that like after sort of the comedy boom, they realized what, you know, they could do with comedians and stand ups were able to sort of helm these sorts of things sort of fold their acts or in the case of bob Saget, not their act into a, you know, workable premise that's, you know, reusable and re setubal and all these things that we're talking about.

So after that set and after Phil Rosenthal signs on to the show, he and Ray sort of try to decide what the show is going to be and raise idea according to the Wikipedia page is actually um a couple of guys or a couple of friends sitting around and talking about stuff and Phil has to explain to him that that is Seinfeld. Um uh and so they end up deciding to do it about the family stuff. Um because I think Phil Rosenthal correctly identifies that, that's what's unique about Ray, nobody really cares about his, one of the bits from his evening improv set was leaving a, what he calls like a homo buffer when you're at the movie theater with a friend because you don't want to sit your look of confusion, like really encapsulates, encapsulates everything I was trying to say before the start of his set being like sounding insane to modern audiences.

But yeah, so that's not what's funny about Ray, what's funny about Ray is his family life and you know, so Phil Rosenthal identifies this and then let's talk a little bit about the casting. So I think it's hard to, you know, after nine seasons see anybody else in these roles. Um But one that really struck out from the Wikipedia page is originally when they were casting robert, you know, instead of brad Garrett, brad Garrett hasn't come in yet. Their initial idea was to have someone like Danny Devito, which is a completely different direction, literally really interesting. I love Danny devito, this is I'm very glad that got brad Garrett, that's a very different kind of kind of vibe, brad Garrett properly and we'll get into this during the actual episode discussion, but he properly portrays um the very real depression that robert is just living Danny devito would like it would be a happy depression.

Well that's exactly why they so what they said, what brad Garrett said is that Cbs wanted a small Danny devito s character who had a bulldog attitude towards Raymond, um but because he came in and played robert so beaten down and like as such a loser um he thinks that they really responded to the like disconnect between him being such a big guy and then like robert as a person is like so small, he makes himself so small that it's it's a much more interesting character then it's funnier, like he has some really strong, like there's a great we'll talk about it in the episode, but there's a great like physical moment that uh brad Garrett does that is it made me laugh out loud. Yeah, he is a great actor and a decent stand up, although also a little bit of problematic material in the past, but it was the nineties I've never seen brad Garrett stand up.

I actually didn't know that he did stand up either. The other interesting things about the casting, Doris Roberts didn't want to audition because she was in the middle of directing a 23 person play, Which is a lot of people to have in a play. I think plays usually have like four or 5 people. Um But apparently the production company called her agent who told them that she had Monday Free, which if you're Doris roberts and you've been working like six days a week on this play. And then you have your like finally have monday off and they're like no you've got to go in and audition for Ray romanos mom. But she goes in and she actually does the Fruit of the month uh scene. And that gets her, she apparently didn't prepare at all for it and just sort of did it authentically and she was the one that they chose out of 100 people who auditioned full transparency.

And we'll talk about this when the actual, when we talk about the actual episode. But that that fruit of the month scene. Yeah, that was probably my favorite scene in the um Peter Boyle who plays frank got lost. And so he um he was already in a bad mood and then he apparently played it with that and that's what they really responded to. And then so interesting stuff about Patricia heaton patty as her friends call her. She So up to 1996 she had a different show on the air every year. She was in three sitcoms from 1992 to 1995 where she was like a main cast but they all got canceled and she kept doing new ideas were like full seasons to they weren't just pilots but she was in a show called Women of the House which is a spinoff of designing women, which I don't know if you saw any of that um starring Delta Burke.

Uh as a character. Her character from designing women, her husband dies and as his widow she assumes his political office for the remainder of the term. So forget everything you may have known about designing women because now this is about a woman who takes over uh the seat of her husband, the House of Representatives. Yes. So forget everything you knew about designing women and watch this woman design policy. Um So what's what's um I'm just going to read you this line Washington D. C. Was ill prepared for the outspoken quote big dumb hick beauty queens arrival to the United States House of Representatives though she did form an unusual bond with then President Bill Clinton who was frequently heard off screen now to me. Well that's the opposite of my reaction to that.

I think we should do a spinoff podcast where we just watched that. Um, interesting. I guess my reaction was more like it sounds incredibly problematic, but I guess it was the nineties that wouldn't necessarily get a cancel. This was 1995 and you can probably assume that it was produced in late 1994 because it aired from January to August 1995. The Lewinsky affair breaks in 1995. I see. So there you go. That explains it. That explains, I think that might have had something to do with it. Okay. So she does this and then she gets the script for Raymond during pilot season. Pilot season is where uh they make all of the pilots or test episodes for series that they are considering bringing to air, that the networks are considering making a full series. So Patricia anything.

So Patricia Heaton gets this script and she is actually working as a babysitter even though she was just on women of the house. But apparently, you know, that doesn't pay the bill. Uh and she's like, sure, I'll take this and she goes and auditions and she gets it and then you know, the rest is history. The Wikipedia page transparency says she was in the middle of getting by doing babysitting work and clipping coupons, can you imagine? I mean, I don't think of that as something that is like, I don't know, everyone likes to save money on meats and ship. Very true, Very true. But you know what Wikipedia says it. And I'm glad that uh I'm glad they clarified that. I'm glad Wikipedia. Class shamed Patricia. I will say that it's it's it's interesting because like after Raymond, she goes on to do like she was on the middle for a lot. I mean there's a big gap obviously, but like the middle is another one that's incredibly successful family sitcom.

So yeah, I mean she establishes a name for herself for sure. And then recently she went back to her roots and did a show that only lasted for one season. Carol's second act. Did you watch Carol's second? Did not believe it or not, adam. I've never even heard of it. Um It is about she's wearing a white coat. I don't know anything else about this. I I remember seeing a trailer for this. It's something about like a second career. That's that's kind of what I remember after raising her two Children and retiring from teaching carol embarks on a unique second act, pursuing her dream of becoming a doctor by completing medical school and beginning an internship. Okay, so it's so it's like she retires and then start a second career. Yeah. And it was canceled after one season, although it was canceled in March of 2020. So there may have been other considerations. There were probably like, we're not going to risk people's lives for carol's second act.

Yeah, I don't know. But yeah, how how how Baller would it have been if like they released the second season of Carol seconds act and like she was working from home like on zoom. I was thinking the opposite way of like they had guest star, Anthony Fauci and like stuff like that, they could have leaned into it and I'm glad they didn't because there was so much misinformation happening around that time. But at the same time that could have, there's there's an alternate universe where Carol's second act saves America and I'm sad we don't live in it. Yeah, the middle was on for nine seasons. I'm looking up now. So as long as Raymond um yeah, so she's you know, matched her success on Raymond. Very, very good. It's very funny. You know, it's it's hard to land like a big big thing, hard to catch lightning in a bottle twice. But that what's interesting to me is that she did like, you know, she was a lot of people have their big sitcom and then they worked sporadically and that sort of their status quo.

But for her to, you know, have her big sitcom and then worked sporadically and then have an equally big sitcom. I'm just very happy for her do whatever she wants. I wonder what she's doing? Probably retiring and going back to med school becoming a doctor Patty's second act. Oh yeah, okay. So what is the thing that we said We were gonna look up during the break. We were gonna look cameo. Okay so we're gonna throw to the break and hopefully look I've done no work in getting us any kind of advertisers or you know, a promo code or anything. So this might just be a musical sting but if if not you know it just God damn it. Okay, so we're gonna go look up what the who's on cameo and that'll be our exciting new segment when we come back.

We'll see you soon. Sounds good. Okay, so I was able to find us an advertiser. If you are looking for email marketing tools, look no further than mussen. That's M. 00. Like a cow and send like an email moose end is an email marketing platform used by organizations like Sony WWF and UNICEF to create highly engaging responsive newsletters, mussen provides you with segmentation tools, powerful personalization features, campaign reports and advanced A. B testing options to power up your email marketing strategy, all under their free forever plan. You can upgrade to the pro plan for unlimited visitor tracking, landing pages, integrations and much more. Go to ads dot post fun dot info slash mu to sign up today and let them know that Raymond sent you and we're back.

Okay, so in the break we found out that brad Garrett is in fact on cameo and he's only one on a cast member on cameo. Also I have I have the price in front of me. Adam, I want you to guess how much let's go personal because there's a different price for personal use and for business. So for personal use, how much do you think of brad Garrett cameo costs? I think it's difficult to predict this sort of thing because it's all about how they see themselves. You know? Do They think that they're worth this much? Do they think you know, maybe nobody wants a cameo for me, I'll put it pretty low or are they being altruistic? And they're like, I can do, you know, 10 seconds or whatever. Um it's you know, keep it low so that I get to get the love of the fans and spread the joy. I think Brad Garrett is charging $250. 250.

Okay, we'll do price is right rules, but I'd like to Change my answer to one. Well, I'm gonna go to Alex now. Okay, okay, so two 150 from Adam to 50 from Adam, I'm thinking about it. I mean like look, when I think of brad Garrett, my mind instantly goes to like robert's mindset, which I know is not the case with how brad Garrett perceives himself at least. I hope um I'm gonna go I'm gonna go like one, I'm gonna go like 1 75. Okay, so adam is two 50 Alex Is 1 75. I didn't want to be a Dick and just go like $1 after you said prices. Right? So you're both wrong Films use cameo from Brad Garrett costs 450 dollars. Yeah. Uh he's I'll say this he's got 181 reviews all of them. Five stars or he's got five star average at the very least.

A 100 And 81,000 followers. Okay so apparently it's worth that much money. He's made $72,000 from Holy facing at a minimum at a minimum. Uh Just just as a just as a comparison um Wayne Knight who's Newman from Seinfeld? Yeah. How much do you think he cost? 50 dollars? $330 wow. These guys are making bank man. These guys are making bank understand why they charge so much. They're getting residuals. They're getting people that are willing to pay them that much money. That's why I guess so they probably do some like a B. Testing here and there to be like okay I'm gonna put it at 2 50 for a while and then I'm gonna get away with 300. Look look here's the thing too with cameo right? Like if you set the price at like $50 and like and you're doing it to be like nice. You're gonna get like a lot more work for yourself.

Yeah it's a good look you're right it's a way to make sure like that everyone's Happy. I'll also say that for business because Brad Garrett Ain't no shell for business, it cost them $750. And what's the difference? I mean like advertising. Exactly. And for that you're going to need to chill out. seven 150 doesn't seem like that much to get an endorsement, especially when a personal is less is more than half of that. I don't know. So that's the sorry state of or the very fortunate state of brad Garrett. Yeah, honestly he's fine. So Now before we go through the episode, I just want to give you a little bit of an insight into what's going on at the time. This episode comes out in the time leading up to it. It is September 13, 1996. Okay, this is the day. Well actually I'm gonna build up to it. So there's something called the 1996 Everest disaster.

Uh I'm just giving you an insight into this is what's on everybody's minds. This is the year that they've been through. Do you think that do you think that people are tuning into ray romano saying? Alright, what's his take on Everest. They don't know, it's uncertain times. The wind on Everest or snowfall or whatever claims 12 lives and now here's Ray romano. Well not for several months. So I'm so happy that he did not go down that path of like having to acknowledge every tragedy. It's okay. So we fade from black onto just ray on the darkened set spotlight on Ray a single candle, 12 candles and he's holding a snow globe and he implores us to take a moment of silence as he dedicates this episode to the victims of the Everest disaster. Just as he finishes that the twins and his daughter, the, it's important that we don't forget the 12 people running with that cookie.

What are you doing? Um yes. So the 1996 Everest disaster, the Nintendo 64 is released in 1996. Dolly the sheep is cloned in 1996 when your birthday is october right? For some reason I guess you could technically have meant august because you would still have been a month away. Right. So I don't know, I don't want, I don't want to give up my birthday adam. Are you okay with bleeping bleeping information? Yeah, bleep your birthday at this point at the release of everybody loves Raymond. I am yeah, yeah that is your exact birthday and we have an approximate address for you. I think if someone was going to do a public record search, you know, maybe hit up spokeo spokeo. You ever google your name and you come up on spokeo.

I have never come up come up when I have my own name on spokeo believe it or not. I'm sorry. I, I just wanted to ask one question from Adam uh is I definitely think we're gonna have to censor some stuff throughout our run of this podcast. Now. Let me hear your thoughts for the sensor. Can we have it be Ray saying Debra or maybe there's some sort of like wanton sound that we can find. That's just him. Yeah. Well yeah, we'll find something. Um Okay, that is work. I'm willing to do. What Else happens in 1996. So Charles and Diana divorce in 1996. Uh yet No, that's 97 I think. Um Also interesting.

So September 13, hold on 1996 is an election year. Do you know who the candidates are in 90 6? It would have been Bill Clinton. Yes. And I don't know who the other guy is. Um I'm not sure you're asking the wrong guy. It is. Yes it is. This is so the banana guy. Yeah. Of banana banana. So um yes. Leading up to the release of the pilot episode of, everyone loves Raymond, Everybody loves Raymond. Yeah, can I ask is this pre or post Atlanta olympics bombing? That was the next thing I was going to get to because not only was this an election year, it was also an olympics year, a confluence of events that happens uh every time I guess.

Yeah. Oh yeah, that is true. Wait, hold on, I didn't, I don't think I've ever put that together. Yeah, me too. I may have thought that it was a rare thing, which is why I wrote it down something. But yeah, this is the year that the pipe bomb goes off at the Atlanta olympics and Richard jewel is falsely accused planting when in fact he saved many lives at this point the american public has a couple of things on their mind. They are this is post that. Yes, this is post that I just wanted to note that if this is, if everybody loves Raymond is going is supposed to happen in the present day. Like as it's released. Ray romano is a sports writer. He or Ray Barone is a sports writer. He should have been on investigation for he's probably writing a good bit about the Atlanta olympics and how awful did the bombing was at some point. Yeah, september this pilot. So when would when was the bombing august well the summer I know that much because it was at the very so at the very least it was like maybe like a month had passed.

So maybe that would have been it would have been done with by then was baseball, Baseball was in the olympics at some point. Right? I'm not making it recently. Got put back in. Um So I'm pretty sure I mean you're not allowed to have active MLB players in the olympics. Um never were but like you know college players, international players um are allowed to do it. Um The reason I know this is because we I'm a huge baseball fan. We just got out of a pandemic. We're the only thing that I I was able to watch was the KBS, the korean baseball league and the olympics where America took silver, the silver medal. Japan took gold. Um And the D. R. Took bronze after beating south Korea. Tom Selleck movie. Mr baseball. I have not actually believe it or not and I don't go too deep on tom Selleck washed up MLB player who then goes and plays in Japan. Oh really? That actually that happens quite frequently actually guys, this sounds great but what does it have to do with Ray romano?

We want to know what he was writing about. I Was gonna say if if baseball was still in the Olympics in 1996 there's a chance that he would have been sent down there on on assignment because that seems to be most of what he does is baseball, did they say where he was when he got back from in the pilot, he was following something, he Was in the Bronx for four days. He was either in, well no he's probably had a road trip. So he was probably statistically he was either in Baltimore boston toronto or Tampa full transparency. I was making a joke. I don't joke about baseball very seriously. You have statistics to back it up. I was probably in Baltimore setting off the events of the wire to transpire but 4.5 years later. Um Yes, so the american public has two things on their mind, Clinton dole or three things, a cloned sheep, clinton dole and they're burning hatred of richard jewel.

So, and the 4th thing is sitcom debuts tomorrow. Yeah, so imagine it's September 12 and you're eagerly awaiting the premiere of everybody loves Raymond. You saw the legendary Letterman set and you got, you got, you went to the bilingual burger king in Montreal and then you go home and you sit down and you opened the evening edition of the newspaper and you see, oh no, Because this is the other event that happened on September 13, 1996, Tupac having been shot eight days before. No passes away. No, they debuted on the day Tupac died. Yes, so my God, Tupac died. So Raymond could live, wow! Imagine sitting down there just being like man Tupac died at least I got Raymond to look forward to tonight.

I Would imagine because the news is what at six, something like that. Yeah, I would imagine that this was preempted by the news of Probably like a 1/2 hour ago. They should have shot. Okay, so picture this, We fade in from black and there's a single spotlight with Ray and he's holding his favorite. I love it. So that's what is going on in the world as this premiere. So let's talk about the episode, Let's break it down. So first things. 1st. Debra is on the phone. Uh we join the scene already in progress of her talking on the phone to some unknown person about Ray coming home from covering the Yankees and the kids are, can I just say that this is probably the most stressful scene that kicks off insane. And like what a bold move in a way to introduce audiences to most of your characters with three screaming Children simultaneously.

I'm I wouldn't be surprised if you looked at the minute by minute breakdown if they had this data at the time and just saw a bunch of people who are like, no, I'm not gonna watch this, this is what this is gonna be. I'm not gonna watch screaming like it doesn't last for so long, like 15 seconds. I know that's a lot of screaming. So it's like, you know, he started, he started the bottom now, it's like everything Ray says after that is even more funny. It's like, and it's not kids screaming. Yeah. Okay. Well I just, I know that it stressed me out and had I been alive in 1996, I'm very young. Um I would have, you know, probably thrown my tv in the garbage a lot of untrue statements in that sentence. Um Yeah, so Ray comes home and he is, he immediately goes into father mode.

He doesn't really get the big uh you know, well he goes into incompetent father mode. I was gonna say that like he starts out by trying to help with his with his kids, which is something that in the later seasons. Spoiler alert, we don't really see a lot of you see Deborah wrestling with him a lot. We really don't see Ray getting involved. Well, it's interesting as the episode progresses because, well at first Ray is competent and then he remains competent throughout pretty much throughout this episode. He's able to manage the kids and, you know, keep the house clean and stuff. And then in later seasons, I think we start to see that like incompetent Dad Trope. Yeah. Really get played up a little where he's just not even helping. But at this point, yeah, I'm interested to see this change because I mean, you both have not, Well, I know Mike has not watched it like from start to finish and adam, I know, I believe you said you haven't watched this in quite a, quite a hot sec.

Um, and from what I remember what you're describing feels accurate, but I can't speak to the legitimacy of that progression, but I think that's going to be something very interesting for us to uh, to pay attention to, as we go. Like how like the uh Yeah, well, we're right Ray as like how good of a father he is and we'll see if that goes up or down. Yeah, let's do that. There we go. Because we were worried that this show doesn't have a lot of stuff to keep track of over the years. So let's we're gonna invent a, what should we call it, a dad scale. Yeah, like a scale of 1-10. How how how how good is it as a dad? So okay, let's set some baselines. Yeah, we got we got the boom mic count and we got the good dad scale, we got the dad. So let's set some baselines. What one being the worst? Who is the worst dad? Peter Griffin probably, I'm like macro like think outside of the world of oh, I mean, a lot of really bad actually, you know, let's let's keep it to sitcoms and let's say, I don't know, um Archie bunker, you know, or maybe fred Sanford?

Well, I don't know if he's that bad, he's just ornery. Am I going to old with these? Just a bit just a tad Yeah, I know Sanford has sons, that's all I know, I hate to correct you, but it's just the one. Um What about uh married with Children? What's his name? Is that not Archie bunker? No, that's Ed he's a he's an angry dad. It's interesting. It's an interesting distinction. I mean, Peter Griffin is lazy, that's why that's why I say it on him. He I mean he actively verbally abuses meg, like on an episode, he's a crappy guy and like, I mean in the earlier seasons, I believe he has his moments, but like, you know, he uses them more as comedic tools rather than Children. I mean walter White is also pretty bad. Well he does it all for his family bullshit.

Don draper is a terrible dad if we're going to. Yeah. Yeah. No he's a bad dad he's very bad dad dad dad He's the maddest dad. Alright let's say Don Draper and Peter Griffin are tied at number one one for for 10. I'd put Danny Tanner into the ring Danny Tanner. I don't think I can't think of any mistakes he's ever made and then she went into a coma and lost her memory. That's what a strange. Honestly we would have we would have graduated from, yeah it could have been any number of things. It could have been a billion things. Yeah Danny Tanner is definitely up there as far as the best sitcom dad. Um I'm trying to think of other like T. G. I. F. What's Reginald, val johnson's what's his name? Carl Carl Winslow on family.

Oh yeah it's mr Winslow I think he's such a good dad that he basically adopts steve erkel. Right? Who was he's not a well actually he is a dad who's the who's um will smith's dad in Fresh Prince. Okay well uncle Phil figure he is rich so you know there's the whole class element of us choosing him as the best dad. Is that coded with like Classism. So I don't know I mean sure but he also cares about I'm looking more for how much they care about their Children, you know? I think yeah, I think let's say uncle Phil and Danny tanner are tied for the best dad. If you want to throw Winslow in there, I wouldn't I wouldn't, I would say Carl Winslow is probably a seven. Okay, Yeah, sorry, But I mean to now go forward, I'm curious to see like, how are we going to be judging Ray?

Is it going to be more by action or intention? Because we are following from his perspective for most of the show, I think it's a mix, right? It is because like in this episode he's not actually concerned with the well being of his kids, he's concerned with how much is my wife gonna yell at me and he's concerned with? Yeah, he's very concerned. First episode, it's kind of setting it up. Like Ray is gonna just be a horn dog the whole time. How do I seduce my way? He definitely he pulls off deprived at the very least. Um But you know, I mean from his perspective, like he knows his mom will not like put the kids in any meaningful danger. He tries to like stay home and do the right thing, even if it is for the wrong reason, leo the second so much to say about that. Okay, but let's move a little chronologically. We'll come to that. Well we're just so fucking mad at leo, so okay, Ray Ray comes home and he's a good dad at this point.

He's like, I don't know if he's tanner, but he's Winslow. At least he's trying except the kids by giving them cookies, which probably isn't healthy. But you know what? We'll give it to him. It's a stressful afternoon. Yeah. You know, it's very clear. Yeah. So then we see this so opening sequence um, of reassembling while giving a monologue about his life. He's assembling a sort of like fisher Price, like hard plastic playset, which you can tell he's doing here, put together incorrectly in two different ways. Number one, because as we know, he gets trapped inside of it, which is clearly not the intended design. Second of all, I saw him using a screwdriver and a and a like, power tools to put this together and I'm not sure that Fisher Price intended that if I remember correctly, it's more like a puzzle piece. Yeah, they usually just like clip on giant clips. So you got to wonder where Ray's head was coming into this task, but then give him a little bit of slack because he's also apparently being approached by a man with a handheld camera who's asking him to describe his life.

I like in the later seasons where they sort of do kind of a postmodern thing where he's like walking on a tray, treadmill or his family's on a treadmill behind him, that's a better way to do this. This was clearly shot on the fly when cbs told them that they had to have an opening. Exactly. They bought a fisher price like place that is like this wrong, Ray get trapped inside of here and then call for your father for some reason, which is not part of Ray's character at all. He would call for his mother if anyone or give a classic Deborah. Yeah, you know what? They are still very early. This is early. Um Okay, so we come out of the play set opening for me. This was an ad break for on peacock. Um I'm gonna be honest, I do not like peacock as a service. We are paying a lot of money for not a lot of money, but we're paying money to not get ads. And are you paying for the ad free plan, your premium plus.

No, no We're not, we're giving money Alex and I are splitting it, it's 2 50 each for for like a whole service, like it's not awful. I know, but I'm just I'm just want to watch the principle of the thing, it's like you have the same gripe with you. I think the the whole access versus ad, free tier system is bullshit. Um I think either charge me $7 to have access and be free of ads don't charge me five for access and 10 for free of ads like I would pay the the median or the mean of those two, but yeah, I don't know anyway. Well for peacock, peacock. Um, yeah, actually thank you, peacock for hosting Raymond. He's very grateful. Not all streaming services could can hold that much Raymond. Um, so we come out of the intro and it's Debra's birthday.

So the kids I guess have gone to bed at this point and she and Ray go back and forth for a long time about when Debra's birthday is. Ray has to use the day that he proposed to her as Yeah, So this is an interesting thing that gives you an insight into their relationship that I'm wondering is is this explored further? He proposes three times. Um which seems like at a certain point a little, I don't know if we would think highly of a guy who's that persistent in this day and age. I mean, it kind of depends on why she denied him. Right. If her point was great, we're not financially ready to get married. That's a different thing than why the hell do you think I would marry? You look, here's what we have to look at, where it's the subtext where she still stayed with him after two time rejecting his proposals and then agreeing to get married with him.

And then as Ray said after he got a job. So maybe it does have something to do with financial stability or maybe she felt that she was too young when he first proposed and she said She was 23, 23 years old. Which maybe that I mean when she first generation is getting married older anyway, but you know that's still young. Um But yeah, Putting that aside, he eventually figures out when her birthday is and that she's turning 32 or so it's not 32, 32. So If she let's work this out, if she was 23 when they proposed, their oldest child is three years old, assuming that they did not have a child out of wedlock. Um let's allow a year For the marriage. Well let's allow because it's three proposals. And the first proposal was 23, he said 23 24 and then he took a year off to regroup, Right? So 26 at this point.

Okay. And then a year to plan the wedding. 27 and then She could be as young as 30, but why would he say 32, If she had a kid at 28 and then the kids, the twins are now like zero then She would be 31. Yeah, I'm Gonna Say 31. Yeah, she would be either 31, or 33. Somewhere in that zone. We know she's not 32. She she gave him a look and to imply that she was saying like, oh I'm younger than that. Yeah, you're probably right. Um So she she's gonna cautiously guesstimating that she's probably 31. Yeah, she's probably 31 or even yeah, 30 1. 30 one makes the most sense. Yeah. Because why would he say maybe she's pretending to be because that was like a very trope thing in the 90s, like um not older than 30, maybe she's doing that, that we don't we don't know enough about Deborah at this point and we really don't learn anything about Debra as person in this episode, we pretty much only learn about her as she relates to Marie and frank and Ray.

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, we also know that she likes to go to the movies with her friend, lisa. That's about all, and I think we can deduce that she was talking to lisa on the phone in the cold. We also know that she shops at victoria's secret because as in the words, frank, victoria is not a secret anymore. That's a good line. That's a line. I'd like to think that was the first time that line had been used. I feel like it's been used since I don't see any way that it could have been used before this. So I give Raymond credit for that. Okay, so then uh Deborah is talking about how basically she doesn't want uh Marie and frank and robert to come to her birthday party and they're sort of going back and forth about this for a while and then God, damn. This ad is long. So I want to play you the clip of when Marie then comes over because Deb complaining about Marie and frank sort of coming over and making themselves at home and not asking just barges right in and then baking soda.

Yeah, and this is the first time that we see Doris roberts as Marie and I think it is probably the best one of the best performances this scene in the whole episode, like it really establishes her character so she comes in, she slaps Ray in the face, chris rock style or will smithson from across the street. I was here yesterday. Okay, that's funny. She just takes complete ownership of the scene when she comes in. Absolutely. There are a couple characters that do that. It's her and uh and frank that really do that every single time. Yeah. What I love about the scene though is that it is literally she comes in to criticize them and then leaves, it's so fluid and her character, like her characterization is so strong that like you instantly get why Deborah doesn't like her and why you know, if this is her everyday life, why she's so annoyed by it.

So I think she's just she is the best performance in this whole episode. Like if Ray who needed an acting coach to you know, do this. Yeah. Apparently multiple multiple acting coaches were brought in for Ray. Um but but if Ray is and you can kind of tell that his performance is not the most layered and energetic, very it's very flat but like, Marie is like the most developed character. Like, she's the most comedic character besides frank frank is also like one of the comedic engines here, but like, I also do love that right away. Uh Debra is kind of like, what's the word? Uh like Marie comes in and Deborah's kind of proven right? In a way, like, kind of her, her concerns are justified. That's the word I'm searching forward.

It's not like, like, we don't have like, any of like the the wife being overdramatic kind of discussion, it's like she comes in, okay, we get it, she's right, This is insane. Yeah, because if Ray is, you know, raise the title character and Ray is sort of, you know, I think we sort of what this scene does. A really good job of establishing is that Ray is not the audience surrogate here. Debra is like, we are identifying with Deborah and even though raise the title character and it's based on Ray's life and everything. It's like in reality, would you identify with Ray or like feel sympathetic towards Ray for being a in Alex's words, a coward for being lazy, for being, you know, for letting his family walk all over Deborah, you would identify with Deborah And you're 100 right, I guess. I never really considered that before, but you're absolutely right that you're not supposed to feel sympathy for Raymond or not too much anyway, we'll see how that progresses because that might change actually, I don't think Debra ever becomes the crazy man, right.

Like there are certain situations where you might, where you might feel for Raymond, but like Yeah, you're 100% right. Like, yeah, if I'm remembering it correctly, like most of Ray's like nuance or character development is in his interactions with, like, robert or with frank or to a lesser, to a lesser extent with Marie. But I don't think that relationship really changes or is explored in as meaningful away, and this is just based on what I remember from like 10 years ago, but like Deborah is like, you're like you said most often the straight man in this show and we can really identify with her and sort of the crazy people around her. We see her point of view, even though we can understand raised to an extent, he's tiptoeing between these two, uh his, you know, new family and his old family.

Um I just you really understand the dynamic here in this scene. Yeah. So then they go upstairs and we get into a little bit more about why uh Deborah doesn't want them to come over and she describes robert. Um you know, his whole sort of personality, but she mentions um his thing about touching the food to his chin every time he takes a bite of something, which, and then Ray makes a joke about him having to take his shoes off when he counts or something. So this is a textbook description of obsessive compulsive disorder. You know at the time I was curious is this when as good as it gets comes out Which is that Jack Nicholson movie um where he has O. C. D. Um Is that in the zeitgeist or you know how much understanding of that is there? Um I don't think I think they do a good job of playing it.

Um Here where it's just sort of something that is referenced but is not. Yeah. Um But like I don't know that seems weird to give a character a trait that is you know part of mental illness that came out in 1997 apparently. So it hadn't come out yet. But I think that is a more sympathetic portrait of someone with O. C. D. And some I don't know I don't recall that being something that is continued through the series so maybe they know it is absolutely is remember that 100%. I can I can confirm it adam it's not like brought up often but every time roberts eating something he will do it. The character. It it is it also and it's I'm glad they don't make a huge thing of it every single time. But I mean every time he does the first time in the episode there's a laugh track.

You know like the joke is still running um That is very interesting but I bring it up because um as we see in like the later scene, so we'll talk about that in a second. Actually let's talk about leo, so there's the scene character I wrote down. Does this guy ever appear in the show again? I really don't think so. Okay, I have to say yes mike upon Leo's entrance, mike, mike did say something akin to that worries. That's what I thought. Like, did does he die? Is there is there an episode where it's his fuel? I would love it if they just did a hard dramatic turn for a single episode of everybody loves Raymond. It's like he, it's almost as like you know he's like the friend character for they got for the pilot and then when they, you know the show took off they got like different friends and then like in like the middle of season six like Ray goes to like the graveyard.

Hey leo it's been a while, remember that time you stopped me from getting laid? Anyway here's up crappy pizza. Yeah, so essentially you have, you have the notes, so correct me if I'm wrong but essentially leo comes over and he's like oh hey you just put the kids to bed, I'm taking care of them and leo is just like yeah I'm bored, I want to go get some pizza and it's just like he doesn't really give a sh it about Raymond as a person with responsibilities at all, you wonder what their relationship is um to where clearly there guys who hang out together but like I yeah I wanna I wanna add to this because when, when Ray says um oh I have to watch the kids, the first thing leo says almost instinctively like oh just call your mom, like in this like this this scenario has played out before and before, it wasn't an issue because Ray would just call his mom, his mom would be over there in a second and just watch the kids for an hour while he went out and get like at this point Deborah has gone to the movies, she said I don't want I don't want your mom, I don't want your dad, I don't want robert watching the kids.

Why did Raymond think it was okay to invite his friend leo over? If relatives are not? I don't think Ray invited him over. I think he just showed up because everybody in this house just walk into each other's houses, why don't they lock the door? Yeah it's that big of a problem. Well yeah, I'm sure they have a key but I don't What? How come leo can come in? Okay, well he doesn't have the, so this is another thing is why don't they just order the pizza? Like that would take that takes the entire, that takes the knees out of this problem I think from from my, from my memory of watching it like an hour ago um I think Ray got uh like kind of like overwhelmed really quickly because leo kind of was like they had that little discussion about like, oh call your mom and I was like, well I can't and he was about to get explaining why and then his mom walks in and then she hears this and then she starts pushing him out and he's like no wait why I really have to And then before he knows it, like he's already halfway out the door being pulled by leo being pushed by Marie.

And at that point he's just like, well I mean what am I gonna do? And then just caves in. You should stand up and say no, I want to watch my kids tonight. I want to spend some quality time and establish a relationship as a father. I Want to order pizza to be delivered which existed at this point for sure. It's existed for 30 years existed for Ray's whole life. He knows this is an option, it's happened a line like I don't have any cash or something would justify why they had to go out for pizza. But there's no, it doesn't even so I think Ray takes a hit on the dad's score for this one. I think this knocks him down to, you know, jim from according to I don't know too much about, I mean look, we're talking about from a scale of 1 to 10, like from the beginning of the episode, me personally, I would have put him at like maybe like a like a like a strong seven. Like he comes in and tries to do the right thing and he works to help the kids.

Um he ends up bribing them, but I think, you know, he had good intentions and he really just wanted to kind of calm the situation down for this maneuver. I wouldn't give him all the fault because because if if leo didn't come and it was just his mom, I think he would have like, you know, he would have talked to her for a little bit and then kind of eventually gotten her out. I think he was pressured and under the pressure he broke, I would take like a point off for that. He also knew that the kids were not going to be in any sincere like danger, but I don't I don't know, I like he can also stand up for himself. He's not like he can say no, this is all arc of the episode mike that got that's gonna get reset. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know, I'm still, I'm knocking him down more than that. I'm giving him a five five. So who's like the most middle of the road dad in sitcom history, Who is the five is it tim? Taylor tim the tool man Taylor Yeah.

Home improvement, I probably put it at home improvement level. Yeah. Ok. Yeah, I like that. Okay, so right now Ray is out for pizza and Marie agrees to watch the kids while they're gone. And of course in the process of that, so the first thing she does is goes over to their mail literally yeah, goes through their receipts. Which some of these things are quirky and some of them are like serious invasions of privacy. Like the whole thing about frank listening to their messages is super weird and then frank does some other weird things in this scene where it's like that's the crosses, some kind of line. He I want to wake the kids. Oh yeah, he, he and robert just like they barge in. Like I Just want to see them. Come on, it's early. I just want to see the kids. They can sleep when we go. You want to say something $120 receipt from Victoria's secrets?

Holy Crap. What the hell is a bus dear. I think that's pretty funny. Okay, so this is robert looking at the everybody loves Raymond. Just hear the despair in his voice when he sits down, has a hot dog doodles on a piece of paper they gave me a trophy. Tell you the truth. I think that Raymond is wasting his life writing sports writers should be writing short stories and poetry. You think I'm wasting my life. It's different with you dear. Okay, so robert is a new york city cop. Yes. Who has undiagnosed mental illness and festering resentment and anger. Do we think? Let's just put it all out on the table, Do You think today, Robert would have been at January 6?

Do you think Robert one of the very high percentage of police officers who is a white nationalist, jesus dude, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say probably not, I'm gonna, I'm gonna very much hope not. I Think Season nine, Robert, No, but I think dude figures a lot out. Yes, in these nine seasons. I think actually that's a good point. If the internet is in full swing today, I think you're right. I think four chances sucks him up. I see robert as this robert as a type of person who can be easily manipulated. Yes. Uh so I think I can see what you're saying. I don't think that at this moment, robert, Barone and in season one episode, one robert, Barone would go there, but I do think he would be a target to persuade someone to go down that road. Yeah, so he's he would be a target, but I don't think he is.

No, I mean, I don't think he is at this point, I'm he would definitely under the current ecosystem be radicalized with this much anger and resentment though, is what I'm saying? Like, he's clearly, you know, this is how people get drawn in. They are angry, they're not happy with where they are in life. They're looking for a place to belong. Obviously, robert isn't getting it at home. His own mother says it's different with him, you know, she kind of implies that he's wasting his life. He's living at home with his robert is at this point an in cell, Right? I mean, I mean, Yeah, actually you're probably 100% right. We haven't, we learned about his woman troubles later on, but we don't know too much about him yet. But yeah, I mean he fits the bill at this moment. You're 100% right about that. I just think it's a very stark character at this point and I'm glad that as the series goes on, he gets dug out of this hole a little bit because, You know, speculating as to where these characters would be now, I wouldn't be optimistic for season one robert or pilot robert.

Yeah, yeah, because frank would definitely have, you know, maybe it would be Like 112 years old. Okay, all right, thank you very much. Yeah, you're right about that though. Okay, so yeah, they they all come over and they all cause a fracas the kids get waken up, Here's the thing that I want to know because eventually Ray comes home. Ray kicks him out and says now you gotta go, you gotta go after the kids are running amok. Does Raymond actually clean up? Was that Marie and he's taking uh you know that place was kind of messy when he got home. You take them out right away. I saw like toys laying out things like that. I think he actually cleaned. Okay. I'm gonna give him credit on that one. I think so too. I just want to point out one of my favorite gags in the episode is robert tapping the twins chins with the spoon while he's, that was the funniest choice. I had noticed that was great.

I think it's interesting to let me scrub a little bit and see if Okay, so, well let's talk about the sniffing the heads thing for a second. The fountain of Youth. Yeah. Um that doesn't go away either. I don't think, I don't think I have ever seen that in real life. Like I know people say that babies have like a smell babies do have a smell. Do people relish it like that though? Like that seems this is one of the things where it's like it crosses the line from quirky to a little like weird, right? You know, for me, if it wasn't his own grandkids, then I think it would cross the line, right? I don't know. I think it's weird to do with anyone. So I'm at the very moment that he pushes robert out the door and then we get a uh like a dissolve and then the house is clean. So I think we can assume that Ray cleaned the house himself. So that bumps him back up in my view to like a seven.

I don't I don't bump him up because I think he does it out of out of like, you know, obviously self preservation, self preservation, and he doesn't do a thorough enough job to even hide what had happened because never finds out like, immediately after checking on the kids. So, I'm keeping him at a six from where I originally had. Well, I would bump him up from a 5-6. So I think we're all even on that. So, So six above average at this point. Right? So yeah, Deborah comes home. She's grateful. She implies heavily that they're going to have sex and Ray is very horny as we've established. Ray runs up the stairs. He then throws all the pillows off the bed, doesn't do any other like, property says good old sex takes issues, you Know, as one does, he says, I'm going to do new stuff, untying his shoes issues.

Um, just want to, like, just get your mind started on speculation. I mean, look from, from, from, like, my thought of it, like, from what I hear there is, like, the way he was talking about it makes me feel like from his perspective, he does not have enough sex. So, when he gets it, he has to take advantage and try new things now, because what else is he going to try them. It's interesting that this is his intention, but we don't hear what Deborah's take on and I think she's open to new stuff. I think they're both trying really hard because then we see in like the later seen that Debra is equally horny. Is Ray? She just, she just has other stuff going on um or other concerns. So yeah, I think they're both open to doing some new stuff, but then she goes and she finds that the twins smell like old spice. Um and this was the pre terry crews.

This was before the tagline old spice. If your grandfather hadn't worn it, you wouldn't exist. Horny um Old Spice is Horny. So Horny Count three, Ray Deborah. Um and then Deborah is disappointed in him and is basically, I think everything she's saying is very reasonable and she's just trying to set healthy boundaries. Like I'm full on, on Deborah's side on this. I think disinviting them, No one. but I think disinviting them does put ray in like that creates like dramatic tension here. Like Ray is actually has a choice to make. Yeah, from my perspective, what I think should have been done is having uh frank Marie and robert over and having a talk with all of them about boundaries right? Instead of Ray lying to them and then having them barge in and then you create that sort of need for Ray to do his sort of dressing down of them.

Um So the scene that follows is the Fruit of the month Club. Great, great freaking scene. There's 20 seconds left on this Peacock ad and then I'll play it Just like and and what, you'll see it in 20 seconds. But like it's just, it's just one of the better comedically timed scenes that we've seen honestly in anything Raymond so far, but it's such, it's such a good, yeah, just memory is such, they bounce off so well from each other. Excellently done. Her choices are so big in this scene to be so upset, to be so upset about something so small. Listen, I wanted to talk to you about Debra's birthday. Oh my God, talk about birthdays. Your birthday gift to me finally came this morning. Did you know you sent me a box of pears? I'm a place called Fruit of the Month. That's right, that's right. How are they? Oh, they're very nice pears. But there's so many of them. There are over a dozen pears.

What am I supposed to do with all those pears. I think you're supposed to eat them myself. You, you and dad and robert. How many pears can robert eat? I appreciate the thought, but please don't ever send us any more food again. Okay, well another box is coming next month. What more pairs? No, it's a different fruit every month. Every month. Yes, that's why they call it Fruit of the month Club? It's a club. Most people like it ma you share it share it with all your friends, which friends, I don't know lee and stan stand by their own fruit. Oh your daughter's doing fruit in the house. Uh But yeah, good. But also from that very funny scene, we also see like a little bit more into like Marie psychology where like first of all like Raymond goes to return like the fork, no thank you know like any sort of like appreciation just like a straight up like kind of deflection or like passive aggressiveness.

And then you know, he comes over and he clearly has something he wants to talk about. He brings up birthdays and then she immediately brings it back to her with with the with the fruit box and then that takes over the entire conversation, which for us is great because comedy, it's interesting the push and pull between them trying to, because you've got to imagine this is how Ray's entire life has been of like trying to get attention from her and her pulling it back to herself and what race doing to her. The idea that she says, why are you doing this to me is such a funny choice because you sort of get that sense of, you know nothing. And you know, for Ray to be like the favorite son, it's less. But imagine what it's like for robert where nothing is good enough and your gifts are looked upon as a burden, which is a really interesting dynamic.

Um even though it's very funny in the scene and then for frank to come in and then what is the line hold the line I believe is Ray signed us up for some kind of cult. Oh you know that the fruit keeps coming month after month. He's got us in some kind of a cult. It's not a cult ma it's a club. What do you mean? Month after month for how long a year? I got you out of your mind. So sorry, what do you think we are invalids? Alright, I'm canceling the fruit. Good. Thank you. Raymond, thank you. Don't do that again. Just the way frank enunciates himself. It's very funny to me is a great, great actor. Um Okay, so then he goes on and tells them that the party is canceled and that they're going to bear my bear mountain.

Okay, so I grew up not on Long Island, but I grew up very close to Bear Mountain. Do you know where bare mountain is? I've been there many times when I first watched this episode all those years ago. I thought Bear Mountain was just a thing. He made up to Bear Mountain. It's really, it's um purportedly shaped like a bear, hence the name. I've never seen it. Yeah, it's basically like a like imagine a Catskills resort for the 50 from the 50s and then shrink it down to just a picnic area and a zoo and a hotel um and a pool. Um I used to go there. It's a huge pool. Yeah, there's the hikes. And then, did you go to the zoo? You have to go under the road to get to the zoo? It's not a secret, it's well publicized, but well, I think it may have been kept a secret from you. Um but I just thought that was a nice little touch of local color.

Um It is really puts it in space a little bit. Very, very, very, very cool. Okay. Anyway, so he straight up lied to their faces. Yes, he lies to them. Um I don't remember robert coming in. Oh yeah, he just says Raymond. Um Okay, and then so he comes back and um do they? I don't know if this is the same day or if this is the day, this is the day of the birthday and Deborah is incredibly grateful or just so horny because they immediately get it on to try some new stuff. Good old sex off. Um But I feel like it lingers on this for a long time, which is interesting because yeah, then making out it's, I felt like it went on a bit longer than I expected it to, which it's, I don't think I remember there being so much sexuality in this show.

Um I thought of it, so this is probably going to be different episode or experience from, like, the rest of the show in some aspects and to be honest, I'm not quite sure. I remember there not being like a ton, but I do remember my parents changing the channel. Not infrequently. So it's what we were, well, while we were watching this episode in particular, but I mean if we were, they would have changed it during this, the scene at the sex, they would definitely would have been like, nope, let's go watch Spongebob or something like that. You don't think Spongebob don't even try something new. Um but no, it goes on for a while and I was just surprised that what I thought of is like a family sitcom having like such overt, like clearly these two are trying to fuck, but they can't because they have kids and in laws, I believe it's like when the, when you mentioned the intro of the treadmill with their families on the treadmill behind them, Ray says in the intro and it just stuck in my mind for so long.

Like we have to we have a daughter and two twin boys and then whispers to the camera, it's not really about the kids, which I always took as a subtle hint of like parents changed the channel kind of thing, which I thought was interesting. Yeah, that's an interesting read on that. Um Okay, so then they almost fuck and I just think it's really funny again. Doris roberts being the strongest part of this the way she can't, she comes in. So hold on. It's playing this right now and he's unbutton ng and she's unbutton ning and it's just very steamy. Yeah, they're about to do some good old sex like she was stabbed in the heart. How dare you, your wife. I do want to point out that this may have been a blessing in disguise for for those two as after Marie Frank and Robert leave like 30 seconds later their daughter comes downstairs.

So if they were not interrupted they would have been way further along your right. So that yeah, no, I never thought about that. You got to look at the bright side. Very good point. Yeah. Not only does Marie scream as if being stabbed but robert maybe. Well it does seem to be the middle of the day, so maybe not. I don't know, we don't have that. It's kind of Like end of a party time maybe like 5:00, what sort of party? Like a 30 year old like Mother's Birthday Party. Yeah, like like sort of like a baby shower time line. Yeah, I'm not I don't think they're gonna have a razor at the home, like easter lunch or something like that, like when that's wrapping up. Yeah, exactly. Um But so Marie screams robert draws his gun, which again, which raises a lot of questions.

Number one, why is he bringing his gun over to the house. Does he have it on him all the time. He wasn't in uniform right now. Police now. I think he's wearing a suit and tie. Why is he wearing a suit and tie? They're not coming over for a party. They expect the house to be empty. They do, they brought gifts anyway. I think they were like trying to drop it off or something. Is it are they on their way to church? Are they Marie and frank are dressed normally, but like not Slovin literally and not fancifully robert is wearing a full suit though, so I don't know. But he draws his gun, which again raises some red flags, right? So if this, if this robert is today's robert, he's not somebody you want to spend any time with. This robert is had to make his body cam footage public at some point. At some point in time. Right? Um, yes, he draws his gun and then puts it away.

It's also like in the background too. It's like, it's not like that was not like the main joke. Like it's a background kind of actually, that's a good point. Ray is scared. He just says holster your weapon, like very nonchalantly. Which brings me to the question, how often does robert quick draw on his Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Like this robert at this point is someone to be concerned about. Okay. So then Ray, uh, admits that he lies and he has this whole monologue about, Okay. Debra wanted us to have a day to ourselves and Me too. Me too. But Debra's the one she's got throw a stepper under the bus. That's gonna cost him on the scale like that, you know, I know you try to be funny, but like, with the twins, maybe you shouldn't say I think little Matthew has homosexual tendencies and ma you can't be so critical if you're gonna be critical, could you please call before you come over here?

Really? So, we could be ready for it. Both of you, Could you both call? We have to prepare. There's bills and receipts we hide and then we chant a little. Now listen, we we love you both, but this is our house and Debra's my wife. And if you can't accept what I'm telling you well, and you can't come over here anymore unless you call first. That's it. I think I did it. All right. There's nothing to do with me. All right, So, I have a couple of things to say about that first and foremost. From a logistical continuity perspective, the twins names for the majority of the series are Michael and Gregory. I do not know why in this one episode, but his name is Matthew, it's just a continuity thing that kind of bugged me this episode, right? Yeah, I don't know why either. And I think they're based on res reel twin sons, but I don't have a name change at some point.

No, but I think maybe they changed it um from, let me see what his son's names are personal life. Alright, well Adam is looking that up. I'm gonna I'm just gonna put put it out there. That also like, like I said, I don't think Ray has this conversation at all if Deborah is not leaning over his shoulder dictating his every move, you know what I mean? I think he's there because it's like, alright, I gotta do this or else I won't be able to try the new stuff. That's a great point. Yeah, like it's he's very much appeasing Deborah in this moment. I can see that Ray is also kind of like wanting to set boundaries with his parents, but I think he's a little too spineless to do it without Deborah's initiative. I'm wondering how much of that. So, first of all, um in the pilot, they were named Gregory and Matthew after his real life sons, but then he didn't want his, all of his television Children to have the same names as his real Children.

So they changed it to Jeffrey and Michael um although Ali is the name of his real life daughter, so I don't know why they didn't change that as well. I don't know, but um I wonder how much of what we're reading from Ray is because like for what should be kind of a, you know, like, it's a real big moment for Ray in a way, setting these boundaries, his delivery of this monologue is kind of flat, you know, as we've noticed and how much of what we're reading is his, you know, spinelessness or meekness is just him not being a very good actor at this point, I don't think I'm gonna listen, it's possible, I'm gonna I'm just gonna go with what I'm seeing. I think it's because he's more scared of Debra than he is of his mom. That's that's what I think this is, which sure yeah, he stands up for blah blah blah blah blah.

I honestly this brings it down in the dad factor for me because he butchers this, he butchers, I would I bring him I'm putting him out of four at the conclusion of this episode, I think that's what Alex speaking to what Alex was talking about about like his intention versus his action, like he accomplishes the mission, which is to set a boundary and uh yeah, yeah, but yeah, his intention was just to appease Deborah, it wasn't because he was, you know, trying to really make her life better. Um he wants to keep everyone happy, but not because he's like empathetic, but because he doesn't want to fight, he doesn't want to like confront, he's afraid of conflict is okay, so he's at a four right now, I I put him, I'm keeping him at a five, okay, I'm gonna Give him a four Alex is very very kind, I am, I'm a kind greater if We're if we are averaging out, he's currently at a 4.3 for this episode.

One. Yes, that's good. Quick math. Did you do that in your head? Alright? Um So he makes this big speech and then Marie basically says we understand it's fine, would you make such a big deal about it? And then they leave and um then like you mentioned, they're about to get it on again, again, very horny, and then ali comes down the stairs and I think that's oh, and then we go to um the like sort of yeah, the fadeout scene, which I also have a lot to say, I say about um is a fine little bit. It's a it's a funny little joke where they're looking over the cribs, there was like, oh how cute and raised like, well if they're older and they get ugly, it's gonna suck from, because there are two of them. Uh I think it's fine, I think it's a funny little bit, but it struck me very much as like a he's trying to go for the Seinfeld on stage conclusion.

It is a bit of a bit from his stand up, He does this, I don't remember if he does it on the Letterman, but he does it on a clip I watched from just for laughs. Um This is like verbatim from his stand up and there's a couple other things that I think are taken from, or at least inspired by bits from his act. So I think it's really interesting because I hadn't seen any of his act that was contemporaneous to this before but like you can sort of see where you know the leap from based on the comedy of Ray romano to this is literally from his act and we're just repurposing it here. Um I'll be honest I'm kind of okay with that. Like my favorite my favorite tv show that's out right now is Ted lasso. Um And just like they recycle those jokes from the from the commercials that Jason Sudeikis did and I'm totally okay with it because it's very very funny.

So yeah. Yeah I'm not mad at it I'm just it's interesting to notice. Um And like how many people especially at that time had seen his act on T. V. Yeah if if they didn't see the Letterman like what were the other opportunities? There was no Youtube. Um Yeah so that is the end of the episode and I think final ratings let's talk about that final ratings for Ray as a father based on this episode. Overall I'm going to give him a I'm Gonna even him out at a five because I think the moments where he's good he is you know he's doing the functions of fatherhood pretty well. He is keeping the house clean. He's keeping the kids fed and putting them to bed and um he never leaves them unattended. Like he does everything he's supposed to do, but his motivation is so suspect and he's so lazy throughout the whole thing and sort of like he seems very content to just like pass his Children off to other people um which you know, really cost him in this and I hope that's something that changes in the pilot.

I'm glad leo dies under mysterious circumstances. I feel like he was a bad influence on him. But overall I'm gonna give Ray a five for this mike. I'm gonna, I see your argument, I think you're right. He does accomplish a bunch, accomplishes the bare minimum, but I have faith in the common man and I'm just gonna say that like, yeah, sure he hits them, he hits where he's supposed to hit, but at the same time at five we're basically saying, hey, he's an average father and I just, I'm hoping that's not true. I'm hoping he's at least a little below average. So I'm gonna say probably between four and five. Can we give decimals? I'll give him a four 0.5. That's interesting. Um I don't really see the scale and the sort of average score as being intertwined like that. I think you would find like most dads rate a seven or an eight or what we consider to be like the minimum fall into the good dad.

Yeah, exactly. Um But yeah, I think if I think you start to sort of feel concerned at like five and 6. Gotcha, okay. I in my mind, one is like, this person should not have custody of these Children should probably be in jail, okay, kind of stuff. Yeah, exactly, So if one is like balloon boy's parents, 10 is like the national spelling bee champion's parents, I don't remember reference to uh Oh, oh yes, I do remember that. Yeah. Where they lied about him being taken up in the hot air balloons. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then in that case, in that light, Yeah, I guess I guess the five is fair, I still feel like that's a little generous, but it's episode one, I'll give it to him.

Well what's Your rating is five or 4? I'll give it five, Okay. Yeah, Alex. Um I do also want to say that the internet has ruined me. You said balloon boy and I thought of five nights at Freddy's, I don't know what that is, really. I mentioned Sanford and son. Yeah, wow, that's fascinating. I corrected mike about Sanford and son, that's, wow, that's the level I'm operating. Sorry, I I don't know. Um Well regardless, I'm sure that hit very hard with the saying with like a certain number of people potentially listening to this, that's where their mind's gonna go. Maybe I'm sure that's a clear generational dividing line I think of when you hear balloon Boy, I think that's kind of the point, I was trying to make that that name is going to be different things with people. Raymond, let's see. So I'm kinda also, I'm with you both on this one.

I'm I think I'm gonna end with a five for me. Ray danced between five and seven in this episode. I started him off at a seven because of kind of his efforts coming in. He was out doing his job though, like he wasn't just like ditching for no reason. Um he comes in the second, he's in, he's helping, he's helping Debra throughout the episode. He very obviously uh is hesitant to uh kind of go against Deborah. Um he's kind of doing fatherly things for maybe not always the right reasons we do. Also forget, there's a moment in this episode where Ray is just with his three kids and he's just having like a fun dad moment where he's mixing up the twins, he's shuffling them, we didn't mention the twin curls, the curls like he has like fun moments with the kids, he is like a fun dad.

Um but I think uh you know, from from when it really counts, I think he did what he had to do, but I think like under different circumstances, like he was looking for any way to not do what he had to do. So I'm leaving him at a clean five, I'm gonna let him kind of start right in the middle and we'll see how he grows or falls from here, episode one, season one, episode one, race, scores of five, and we're gonna be keeping track of this as we move on. Also for those uh tell our listeners that are big time into statistics, there were going to keep track of multiple statistic on this and then releasing a report at the end of the year. Absolutely. I do also want to say um for the father rate, I do consider like husband rating as well, like, you know how he does?

Yeah, I'm seeing them as the same. I think that is important to state, let's just say it's like Ray at his worst, to Ray at his best, like, keep it as like in the role of husband and father, How is Rey doing each time the Ray meter, let's call it the Ray meter. So solid five on the Ray meter. We're not super happy with him. The Baran immer, Baroni Amit er the Barona meter. There we go. We got something like that for you next time. Yeah, Barona meter. Okay, well, I think we did it. I think we were doing just, just sign off with like, one of us saying everybody, one of us saying loves one of us saying Raymond, that's how about we do this.

How about we go, everybody loves Raymond and and then all together, we love you, you know the next week on, everybody loves everybody loves Raymond, we're gonna be watching season one, episode two, which is the first official episode of Everybody Loves Raymond. And we are gonna sign off with our classic sign off of uh I don't know how to get into it organically. There's just one last thing to say. Everybody loves Raymond and we love you, nope, no. Uh.

1.1 Pilot
1.1 Pilot
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