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Ep. 41 - Becoming Aware of Awareness - An Interview With Jonathan Robinson

by Hearts Rise Up
March 10th 2021
Jonathan Robinson is a psychotherapist, best-selling author of 14 books, and a professional speaker from Northern California. He has reached over 200 million people worldwide with his practical method... More
Thank you for tuning your heart's in for another episode of the Hearts Rise up podcast. I'm carol chapman, your host along with my co host and Siri and Concetta antonelli. We share our own personal experiences, tips and strategies along with powerful stories and compelling insights from guest interviews. We're here to inspire and empower your conscious evolution, help you tap into your inner wisdom and rise to your heart centered higher self together we can rise to a higher level of consciousness, an elevated state of being and experience more love, joy and freedom. Mhm Welcome back heart centered listeners. It's a pleasure to have you join us once again for another episode of the Hearts Rise Up podcast.

I'm carol chapman, your host and I have the great honor of introducing my featured guest today, Jonathan. Robinson. Jonathan is a psychotherapist, bestselling author of 14 books and the professional speaker from northern California. He has reached over 200 million people around the world with his practical methods and his work that has been translated into 47 languages. Jonathan has made numerous appearances on the Oprah show as well as many other national tv talk shows and articles about him have appeared in Usa Today newsweek and the Los Angeles Times. His specialty is giving people powerful methods that can be done in under three minutes that help them quickly tap into intense feelings of peace. Joy, love and determination in his public talks and seminars, Jonathan is known for providing people with immediately useful information in a fun and entertaining manner.

Jonathan is also the co host of a podcast awareness explorers along with his co host brian Tom O'Connor, they explore ingenious ways to tap into the ever present stillness and joy of our true nature. The podcast also made feed spots top 15 spiritual podcast to follow in 2020, Jonathan, welcome to the show, Thank you carol. I'm looking forward to this. Yes, I think this is going to be a great conversation, there is so much more about you that I probably could have included in the introduction, but I'm going to let you handle that for us because your background and the work that you do is incredible. And of course I have experienced at firsthand recently, earlier this year in a workshop that you had led for Jeffrey Martin as part of his Exemplars program. It was a two part series on awakening awareness through your blind spots that I think that's what it was called, right, and I definitely uncovered some of my blind spots. It was quite revealing. So you, you certainly worked your magic and no doubt you have acquired and put together over the years a toolbox of techniques and methods for others to, to tap into their true nature and experience more peace, love and joy.

And you know, I'm thinking that there's probably so much that you have learned and deepened through your own personal experience. I would love for you to share a bit more about your personal journey, how you got to where you are today and you know, no doubt that you experienced, you know, bumps and dips along your life journey. So maybe you could find a jumping in point into your past that we could start with. You know, I was blessed to have a very dysfunctional family which helped me to think well there must be a better way to deal with life than than my family was. So I had kind of a midlife crisis around age 12, which is a good time to have a midlife crisis actually because you can't get ahead of the game. So you know, I was, I became kind of like suicidally depressed and I was looking for how, how I could deal with my parents screaming at each other a lot and I can't go into self help books and discovered hypnosis and meditation and that was the beginning of my journey and one of the things I discovered is a way to improve my memory.

So I was able to basically get straight A's without studying and in my free time I would read all kinds of self help books and I do meditation and self hypnosis. Eventually gone to psychedelic drugs and just exploring ways to feel peace and anything joyous. Eventually I found out, well I can, you know, find things that work for me and other people are interested in that stuff too. So it became my career. So that's amazing that that started as such an early age for you at 12. Yeah, it's pretty lucky and it's never stopped. You know, I kind of have an insatiable personality and curiosity In my early 20's I know I went looking for Gurus and I traveled around the world and met a bunch of Gurus and then actually lived with one guru for 15 years in the same house and that was very intense. Where was that?

His name is Justin Gold. He's an american. He was a really good teacher for me. He was very focused on helping you see your blind spots. It was like spiritual boot camp That really got me to be a bunch stronger. We would do things like we crossed the Sahara Desert on foot. We climbed to 23,000 ft in the Andes we did we build hospitals for refugees, all kinds of crazy stuff that made me believe that you know, if something was important, I could I could do it and focus on it. And I just left him about six years ago. I kind of came and went, he would sometimes say okay, you know, you're done for now. And during one of those times that I was done, I wrote some books and got on Oprah and did all kinds of stuff like that. But you know, my focus has always been on what methods can help me to find a deeper peace and love. So I kind of got into the game of interviewing people who seem to have some peace and love people like the Dalai Lama and the late mother Teresa and Ram does and scott peck and deepak chopra and Marianne Williamson and you know all these different people and I found that some of their methods actually worked really well for a lazy person like me.

And that was kind of a start of really wanting to pass on some of these what I call inner technologies to other people. Do you have a favorite method that you go to? Well, I have a list on my computer of 278 methods I've kind of collected, you know, some people collect baseball cards, some people collect cars, I collect spiritual and psychological methods. And the thing about methods is that Different methods work for different people at different times when you're 15, what you're interested in is usually the opposite sex, which is different than when you're, you know, 70 and the same thing with where we are spiritually and psychologically. You know, we're at different places. So different methods become appropriate. Nowadays, I'm really focused on methods that take under 10 seconds to do because those methods you don't have to like in meditation separate yourself from life and do them.

Those methods are great. I know a lot of great meditation methods and I I offer 60 of them at our website awareness explorers dot com. You know, and they're all free. I like the ones that I can do while doing email or I'm doing a method right now. You know what you can do while talking while driving your car because 98% of our life involves those things and if you can somehow tap into something a little bit more joyous while you're going about your day, I think those are good things. I'd be glad to share two or 3 if you want. Oh that would be awesome. I would love for you to Okay, well I'll share one. It's a kind of a funny story when I was interviewing all these famous spiritual leaders, a lot of them would talk about the importance of gratitude. not just as a way of, you know making you feel better, but also as a way of really tapping into a higher consciousness. So I knew the importance of gratitude and you know I'd heard that you could do a gratitude journal which is fine, but once again you're kind of separating yourself from life to do a gratitude journal And I'm particularly lazy so you know, if if I can do a method in under 10 seconds that's better.

And so I had a friend of mine who came back from India and he seemed really happy and grateful and I said what happened in India and he said, well my goo gave me a mantra that helps me to feel overwhelming gratitude and I you know that perked up my ears. So I said can you tell me what the mantra is. And he said no you're going to have to go to India and get it directly from the guru. So what happened? Well have you ever been to India carol? I have, I have So you know Warren it's it's 18,000 miles away and they have a lot of great stuff but it's kind of a polluted, busy, loud hard place. So I travel all the way to India. You know I'm jet lagged more now. I take a rickshaw for three hours through you know nonstop pollution to get to the Ashram. I get to the Ashram and they tell me it's gonna I have to wait in line five hours to talk to you. I'm kind of piste off but I wait in line for five hours.

I finally get a chance to talk to the guru. I tell them you know, I traveled all this way to get your mantra for feeling overwhelming gratitude. So in his indian accent he says ah yes my mantra is the most powerful mantra on earth. He leans in to whisper in my ear, I'm so excited, I'm not like not even breathing. You know, I want to hear what this magical phrases. So he says whenever possible repeat these words, the mantra, I give you other words, thank you. I looked at him, I think he's joking with me and he's not smiling, I go thank you that's it. I traveled 18,000 miles ago thank you. That's it. And he he looks at me and he says very sternly he says no, no, no that's it. Is the mantra you have been using that makes you feel like you never have enough. My mantra is thank you not. That's it. That's it will take you nowhere. Well I'm totally piste off. And so I looked at him like sarcastically say well thanks for nothing. And he looked at me and he says thanks for nothing is not the mantra.

You must say thank you from your heart. So when you eat good food say thank you. And when you see your child you'll say thank you or a sunset or your pet say thank you from your heart many times a day and you'll be filled with gratitude. And then he said I'm done with you and that was it and I'm still like christoph and disappointed. But I figured I'd travel all this way. I would do what he said. So you know I take a taxi back to my hotel room and the taxi has air conditioning which is unusual in India. It's 100 and 10 degrees. So I say thank you for the air conditioning and then you know I get to my hotel and they had a bottle of clean water there for me. I said thank you for the water And then you know I look into the bathroom and they have a western style toilet, I said thank you for the toilet and then I open up my computer and I think wow this is an amazing machine. You know, thank you for my computer, I can watch movies, I can talk to people, I can write things. I open up my computer, I Skyped my wife and now I'm talking to my wife on the other side of the planet Invisaneously for free.

I mean that used to take 25 years. So I'm feeling all these thank you's that have accumulated. And I see my wife, I'm feeling thankful for my wife and I start crying. You know, tears going down my face because I'm so grateful and my wife looks at me and she says that must have been some mantra you got. And I said, yeah, you have no idea. Oh I love it. You know, little things where we're surrounded, we live better than kings lived 40 years ago. And yet if you don't take the five seconds to feel grateful for your hands or feel grateful for your computer or feel grateful for clean water or feel grateful for your pet, You miss it all. So I'm really into techniques like that. There are so simple. Yeah. You know, if you really feel the gratitude in your heart, you take five seconds to do that. It can have a major impact on your day. It's amazing how it just had such a ripple effect. You hadn't even expected it would turn out like that, that's beautiful. Yeah, I kind of reached a tipping point, you know, the first few times I did, it wasn't much, but it's like somebody chipping away at a rock, you know, the 1st 100 times you hit it, nothing and then the 101st time the whole rock explodes.

So it's kind of that way, Sometimes it doesn't seem like a method is working and then it just really catapults you to a new level. You know, one of my favorite methods now is anytime I'm worried about something, you know, when we worry, we get focused and we ruminate about things, you know, in the past might be politics or relationships or money or whatever it is. So I just become aware that I'm worrying and then I say, well what else is going on? And what else is going on is sitting in a chair? What else is going on? It's a beautiful day outside, what else is going on? I'm breathing, what else is going on? My dog is wagging his tail as he looks at me, what else is going on? Seeing a cat go or a squirrel go through a tree outside, what else is going to And soon your worries become non existent because you're, you're really focused on that there's so much going on and one of the things always going on is that you're aware of all this stuff and becoming aware of awareness and the piece of that is always available.

If you know how to tune into it, we all know the definition of awareness but in the sense that you're referring to it, let's delve into that a little bit. Would you mind doing that? Yeah, awareness is what allows you to hear the words I'm speaking awareness is what allows you to experience anything, but it's always in the background. So we don't realize it's a thing and it's possible instead of being focused on the things we're aware of, you know, called the content like hearing or things you can become aware of that there's awareness in the background and what very awakened people do or enlightened people do is they become aware of this thing called awareness, which isn't so much a thing, it's, it's like it's always there and ways to become aware of awareness in my podcast, awareness explorers, my co host and I talked about a lot of simple ways of doing that.

one way that I like is imagine that you could kind of a race your body just for a moment. You know, you have a big eraser and you're racing your legs and really imagine this and then you're racing your torso and your stomach area and your back area and your Erasing your neck and then imagine that you're racing your jaw and then you like erase your head. Well, is there still something there, even though your body's erased? Yeah that thing that here's your thoughts that listens you can call it your witness. That's awareness awareness as you get in touch with. Just that has deeper and deeper aspects to it. At first it can be just kind of like a an intellectual watch her. But as you go deeper into it it feels very peaceful and loving as you go deeper into it, it can even connect you with what some people call God or consciousness for a blissful experience.

It's hard to describe and just like any skill with practice, you get better at it with awareness. One of the things that you focus on also is helping people to understand their true nature. How does awareness factor in or work into that? Well I'd like to say that if you're going to describe our true nature in one word I would call it awareness, awareness has certain qualities to it, you know, in the east they call such huge ananda, which it has to do with you know, peace, love and bliss. So one time another guru in India and he had me sit in front of him and he said who are you? You know and that's a really key question. Who do you think you are, who do you identify with? And at that time I didn't know what to say. So I said I'm Jonathan Robinson and he just started laughing and then he said, no, no, who are you?

really? So I said, well I'm a man and he kind of shook his head, no. And then I said I'm a seeker and he said no and then I said I'm a writer now, you know, you did identify with your career, you identify with your socioeconomic level or you identify with your personality trades, but he kept shaking his head, I ran out of stuff to say and then I just kind of sat with him as I sat with him, I don't know if you've had this experience carol, my mind just kind of went quiet and I was just there, I wasn't there as a Jonathan or as a man or as a person. I was just like, like I just got there, you know, I'm just awareness, looking out through my eyes, I would look out who the eyes of the body, it wasn't even my body, it was like there's a body in front of me and there's no awareness or something animating this body and I was looking in his eyes and in his eyes there was these like beams of light coming out of them and I just kind of sat with that and then I was filled with love and that's one of the qualities of awareness is love.

I ended up being overcome by this love and and I burst out crying and as I was kind of crying and drooling in his lap, he said this is your true nature, this is who you are, this love this piece is who you are, and then he said something that really stuck with me, which was and your job in life is to never forget that that's your actual job. And we forget that we think our job is to make money or to look good or be powerful or clean the house or whatever it is, but really our job is to be in touch with that peace and love as much as possible, because when you are good things happen, you can contribute to yourself and the people you care about. Yeah. And the way to really be in touch with that is to be still and to open your heart, You're asking me if I had kind of experienced something similar? I have with some of Richard lang's work listening to some of his videos have really helped me to understand more of my true nature, if you just lose everything the body what's left?

Yeah, yeah. I love Richard in the headless way. I interviewed him on awareness, explorers, and he goes into a lot of the headless Way techniques and, you know, it's really up to everybody to find what works for them and different things will work at different times. Yeah, I think it would be interesting to know when you, when you're doing your workshops and your seminars, is there a particular question that pops up repeatedly from people that are participating in your your workshops around the concept of awareness or our true nature? Well, probably the most common question is, well, how do I get in touch with that? You know, because we can bat around ideas and words, but the words making love aren't really like the experience. You can talk about something, but it's not like the experience of it. So, people want to know what the experience is like and what I find is that. And I was just talking to Dr.

Jeffrey Martin about this and in our latest podcast, he said most methods work for about 3% of people. He encourages people to try like 20 or 30 methods to find what actually works for them. And that's why I like to offer all these different meditations when I interview spiritual teachers on the podcast, mm hmm. I say, give me you know, like I'm interviewing Audre Ashanti, Do you know a shanty? I do, yes, he's a wonderful guy. Or interviewing Byron Katie or whoever we're interviewing, I'll say, give me your best method that you have found works for the most people. And you got 10 minutes to guide people into that method. So now we have 70 of those guided meditations on my website which are all free and you know, give them a try. It's like, you know, do you like this? Do you like that? And They really approach it from very different angles and I can kind of see which ones people are attracted to buy how many people have, have listened to them, you know, some of them have like 11 views and some of them have 75,000 views.

So I get to see, Oh, that one seems to work pretty well for a lot of people. I think it would be interesting to talk a little bit about blind spots, just shifting gears here a little bit because that's another way of really uncovering and helping you to expand your awareness. And I'll share some of the blind spots that I uncovered. One was taking on too much and that that's something I know, but it just, I just keep doing it over and over again. Another was complaining. That's a blind spot. I thought to myself complaining. And then the third one, which is one of the reasons I reached out to you at the time that I did was I was listening to a podcast that you had done about surrender and that was my word for the year, surrender letting go and not resisting. And that's another one of my blind spots when I think I am, I'm not really. So let's talk about blind spots. Where would you like to start? We all have many different parts to ourselves. Carol is really made up of 100 different parts, But you might only be aware of like 30 of them and some of these other parts that you're not so aware of can create a problem.

Like we'll call one part the complainer, maybe a friend said, hey carol, you complain a lot, you know, and I know there's a part of me that I'm not proud of, that sometimes kind of makes fun of my wife and you know, she mentioned that to me, I said I never do that. You know, I don't put you down anyway. And then I caught myself doing it several times and that was very humbling. Well we tend to blame people or situations for our experience and that hides our impatience or frustration or lack of compassion or lack of peace. So one question I have people look at in any situation that gives them trouble or any person that gives him trouble. I say, well what shortcoming in you might be contributing to this situation. You know, example I gave is I was in line at the supermarket the other day and there was a long line and there was this woman taking a lot of time and I'm getting angry and frustrated.

And so I asked myself well what shortcoming in me is contributing to my upset and I realized I kind of have a demand that I be served on immediately um impatient that way. And I started to see that I'm impatient a lot. Once I started to ask that question, why could always blame the situation for being impatient to go, they should do that better. But really it comes down to in various situations, I'm kind of very demanding and you know, we're both americans, you go to India, you know, you could be at the post office seven hours and they don't serve you and you realize, wow, I'm really kind of indulgent in how demanding I am. It's important if you want to grow past a certain point that you take responsibility for your experience. You see that there's these parts of us that are kind of childish, they haven't grown up yet. And part of our job is to see them accurately, not to put them blame them on other people or situations.

And that way they tend to grow smaller because you're not feeding them analogy I use is if you see dog poop on the road and you call it dog poop, you don't have to come up with a strategy to avoid stepping in it, You won't step in it. A lot of times we don't label things accurately. We say it was their fault. Instead of seeing how we contributed and therefore we step in dog poop over and over again because we are denying the reality of our particular blind spots. That's very, very helpful and by uncovering them, it just brings them to the surface and just gives us that opportunity to pay attention to them. Yes. So you learn something about yourself and you can shift your perspective and shift your behavior once you begin to acknowledge and recognize that it's happening and when it's happening.

Yeah. Just seeing it clearly and not making excuses will help it to change. Its only because we tend to blame or deny or distract from these parts of ourselves, that allows them to continue. Yeah, I think that's the problem that most people struggle with. Is there a lot of these things are if they're blind spots there, you're just there unconscious to you, you're not paying attention to them and there are these just behaviors that have been conditioned over time and they're just operating on autopilot and once you become conscious of them they tend to stop. You don't consciously do stupid things, You don't consciously say I'm going to put my hand on this burning hot stove, you're clear that that's not a good thing. So you don't do it. But if something is hidden, if there's a shadow side that you haven't seen, you can, you know, like me with putting down my wife occasionally I thought it was funny or if I wasn't aware I was doing it, then it can continue.

But once you see that you're doing it and it's hurtful, that's when you stop. Yeah. And it takes challenging yourself to do that. We're good friends. One of the ways that I think is helpful is I have a deal with pretty much everybody who's my friend that if they see me do something that they think is hurtful or I'm not conscious of or as a blind spot, I want them to tell it to me and I tell them, I want them to tell it to me without sugar coating. I want them to say exactly how they see it. That's been very helpful. I have that deal with a lot of friends. It deepens friendships first of all, but it has also helped me to see a lot of blind spots quickly that I wouldn't normally see because you know, her eyes look out so I know my mate better than she knows herself and she knows me better than I know myself and and that can be very, very useful if you have friends like that. Absolutely. And it's probably a good practice to ask your friends to share with you or call something out that you want to be aware of and if you're doing it, you know, you want to pay attention to it.

Well, if you ask more than one friend, you know, one friend might be inaccurate, but if you ask five friends and they all say the same thing, you can pretty rest assured that that's pretty accurate. I used to live in a house with 15 people and it, there was a leader that would put somebody on the hot seat and tell them their blind spots and the person would tend to deny it and say no, that's not true. And then at the end he'd say, well if you think that mary is really like this, raise your hand and we were all living together. So we knew mary was like that, you know, he was very accurate with everyone except when I was on the hot seat, when I was on the hot seat, Everything he said was totally untrue and then he'd say, if you think Jonathan's like this raise your hand and everybody would raise their hand, I go, oh my God, they're all lying. And then I realized after a couple of years that they were all totally accurate, I was totally like that. But you know, I had hidden only for myself. So having some people who can give you accurate reflections like that can be really, really useful.

It is, you know, just given today in today's world, when things are just so deeply divided, people are resistant to opening their mind to other people's points of view and things and there's just a lot of anger and destructive energy and at the same time there's a lot of love and joy and peace in the world as well. But it just seems that there's just so much focus on the fear aspect of things. Is there a tip that you can share with others for them to not get caught up in that destructive energy which you know, tends to be, I think could be akin to their blind spot, but where they could just quickly zap it or tap into a feeling of calm and openness. Yeah, well, you know, first we have to take responsibility for where we're putting our attention. I was at the gym the other day, I'm reading people magazine or one of those that are very gossipy and I'm thinking God, I can't believe this bs, I mean who puts up with this stuff?

Why why is there such a gossipy slimy information? And then I realized I was one reading it. You know, you don't have to read people magazine, you don't have to watch the news. If there's something that is important that happens, somebody will tell you, you know, if there's gonna be nuclear war, I'm sure you'll hear about whether you're watching the news or not. So you've got to be careful where you place your attention. Some people get so impacted by things like news or social media that it's like feeding themselves, poisoned what you want to do is make sure you put in good stuff, you know, good spiritual teachings, Youtube videos of teachers, your podcast, my podcast, feed yourself, nurturing diet and don't feed your brain things that bring you down. That's one thing. But if you're really interested in trying different techniques as I said, there's so many guided meditations on my website awareness, explorers dot com.

There's so many books that have great stuff. There's what we call the include meditation, you know, what else is going on. There's a meditation that I really like now and I'll guide people on in just a minute. It only takes one minute. Is as you look around your room wherever you are, imagine that you were just born like you're six months old and you don't really know what anything is or what anything means. You're just here, you just got here and part of being born recently or even how animals look at the world. There are no words, you know, there's no such thing as that's a computer, that's a lamp, that's a tree. There's just business. And if you relax, you can kind of tune into the fact that the world does not have labels, you label things, but really the world just is. And there's a wordless world, there's sensations.

You know, there's not good and bad sensations. There's just sensations. There's just things and by tapping into how everything just is and it's wordless and it's like just here in awareness that can be a very quick way of tapping into a quieter stiller place than the world of our mind. Indeed, because words have connotations and they create stories in our mind and they they we filter things through those words. And so if you can eliminate the words and just be with the business, you have more of an understanding of what that is basically as opposed to labeling something with words, you're having a direct experience rather than one that's mediated through our minds. Our minds are only about your mind carol. But my mind is kind of wacko.

It's a it's hard these days to keep things straight. Yeah, I would love for you to take us through a short meditation. Sure, here's one. And since your viewers are very focused on the heart, there's one I like. If people can close your eyes, that's great. If they can't, that's fine as well. But imagine that you can breathe directly through your heart area, the middle of your chest. So feel your middle your chest. Imagine you can inhale and exhale directly from there, feel the warmth of that area and in a moment I'm going to have you focus on a person or an animal or a young child that you have great affection for. Just choose one though, pets can be particularly useful but choose a person an animal or a child that you have great affection for. And as you think about this being, I want you to remember special times that you've had with them.

Wonderful times where you felt connected, caring and as you breathe in that feeling of connection and care. Imagine telling them how much you care about them and seeing how happy that makes them if you want. You can imagine hugging or holding this being and feeling even connected physically and in your heart. Think of how grateful you are to have this being in your life, how many times you've been able to connect and how fortunate and grateful you are that they're a part of your life. And with each breath, breathe in that feeling of care and gratitude even more.

And when you're ready take as much time as you want. Slowly come back to the room, you're in taking some of that open heartedness, still feeling your heart and let your as your eyes open, that your heart kind of sing through your eyes, feel your heart through your eyes as you look into whatever place you're at and take that open heartedness into your day. So that's just a short meditation and that can help bring us from our head to our heart, which of course is a much better place to be. Oh indeed, that was beautiful. And I could just feel towards the end there just tears overflowing of joy and love, you know that I was feeling just beautiful. Thank you so much for that. My pleasure. And I think on that note, I think that's a great note to end our session today.

I'm so thrilled that you were able to join us. Where can people find out more about you? Well, my podcast and all the guided meditations are free. They can find that any, any podcast app or awareness explorers dot com. And if I have another website called Finding Happiness dot com, if they go there and put in their email address, I have something called the 12 questions of instant intimacy and a lot of people really enjoy those questions that you can ask these questions anyway, and immediately enter into a very deep, intimate conversation. So that's a finding happiness dot com. Okay, We'll be sure to include all of that in our show notes. And I think you have a link on your Finding Happiness dot com website to your books as well. We'll put all that in our show notes. Thank you so much for joining us today. This has been just a terrific experience.

You know, I just have one parting question. If you had a genie in the bottle and let's just assume that that genie is your inner genius and you had one wish, what would that be to be able to somehow see the perfection of each moment and know how to react in a way that is of loving service. Mm I love that. That is a beautiful, beautiful wish. Thank you so much. My pleasure. That's good luck to you Caroline this podcast and I think you're putting out great stuff and it was a pleasure to be part of it. Thank you. And I just want to thank all of our listeners today for bringing your heart's once again to joining us. Thank you for being here and you all have a beautiful heart center day. Thank you so much. Bye for now. We hope today's show helped to bring a bit more joy and happiness into your heart. We hope it inspired you to unleash your inner power and rise up to your best and loving, heart centered, highest self. We'd be grateful if you'd leave us a review on ITunes.

Those reviews are important to spreading this valuable message. We'd love for you to subscribe to our podcast and share the show with others, visit hearts rise up dot com for heart centered courses, guided meditations and are popular notes from your higher self until next time. Keep rising up and may all that you love thrive.

Ep. 41 - Becoming Aware of Awareness - An Interview With Jonathan Robinson
Ep. 41 - Becoming Aware of Awareness - An Interview With Jonathan Robinson
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