Thank you for tuning your heart's in for another episode of the Hearts Rise up podcast. I'm carol chapman, your host along with my co host and Siri and Concetta antonelli. We share our own personal experiences tips and strategies along with powerful stories and compelling insights from guest interviews. We're here to inspire and empower your conscious evolution, help you tap into your inner wisdom and rise to your heart centered higher self. Together we can rise to a higher level of consciousness, an elevated state of being and experience more love, joy and freedom. Yeah, mm hmm. Mhm. Welcome back heart centered listeners. We have a very special guest on our show today. His name is J.

A. Cluster J. A. Began his journey into mindfulness practice with a simple mindfulness meditation technique given to him after a chance encounter with a teacher he would go on to study with for two decades that practice changed his life and started J. A. On a mission to help others get in touch with the power of ancient wisdom and everyday life. J. A. Is a former attorney, social work counselor and instructor of comparative religion, philosophy and social work. He was also the host of A Nobody Guide to life podcast and has appeared on many stages including TTX and in many trainings sharing and teaching about ancient wisdom mindfulness and personal growth with his two award winning books, The Nobody bible uncovering the Simple wisdom and ordinary life and the novel an audible silence.

He hopes to bring ancient wisdom down from the clouds and into the practical world where it can hopefully help people around the world right now. He and his wife Melissa created the community, Nobody Life to help spread the message of simplicity, clarity and mindfulness. J A welcome to the show. Well, thank you for having me here. It is really a pleasure. This is just awesome. Um I haven't known you for very long, but I sort of feel like we're kindred spirits. I feel I feel exactly the same way. It's it's just been such a pleasure getting to know you. Yes, same here. And I just want to say you have such an interesting eclectic background, a former attorney, a social worker, an instructor of religion, comparative religion and philosophy, plus the work that you've been doing with the nobody life community with your wife. There's so many different things all wrapped up together over time.

And I know that that that makes a very interesting personal story, which I'm hoping that will be able to delve into more. But I'm curious to know what was life like before that chance encounter with a teacher? If there truly are chance encounters that puts you on that path of mindfulness. Right? Well, you know, it's our lives are these stories, right? Or at least they appear that way. And so sometimes it's hard to flip the pages back two before the place that we're in right now. But you know, growing up, I was I was a nervous kid growing up, you know, I was in anxious guy and I still am, I still work with that in my life and I still, you know, try to come to terms with that before I met that teacher, I was just out there exploring, I never really thought much about the things that I started thinking about In my early 20s, because it just didn't, it just didn't really occur to me, I just was just living my life trying to get by the best I could, trying to deal with really out of control, stress and anxiety the only way I knew how.

And so I was never really looking early on for for any of these kinds of personal growth tools to help me get past this. I was just kind of living my life day to day and just doing the best I can just like everyone else and I still do that, it's just, you know, after that meeting I had a few extra tools in my tool belt. So how did you come across this teacher? Well, I was, I was in college and was studying comparative religion and had started to have some conversations around spirituality and religion and got a call from parents told me that when I was going to be coming home on a break, there was a gathering that they wanted me to come to just to meet some people who were interested in some of these topics. So I thought that sounded really interesting. I mean, why not? Right, I'm a student of comparative religion and world spiritual traditions. So, I just happened to show up at this meeting and there was this man there that had been had been invited to this meeting.

And I didn't know that this meeting was trying to recruit him to this area to teach. Well, I didn't know that. So I went up to him, I heard him speak and he just had some really interesting things to say. And it felt like that he was really speaking to me personally, and I know everybody felt that way. So, I went up to him afterwards and told him a little bit about what I had been struggling with and what I was trying to come to grips with in terms of like I said, my out of control anxiety and stress was overwhelming. And he he said to me, he said, you know, you remind me a lot of me and he said, I'm going to give you a technique that might help. And he went on to teach me this very simple and I didn't know it at the time as mindful meditation technique, but he just gave me this very simple technique And told me to practice, and little did I know in my early 20s that this is a practice that would follow me to this day, 25 years later, I'm still practicing it and of course I'll probably never master it, but that's the point is it's a practice that I can do.

It's a discipline that I can do. It was a place to start. And it met me right where I was. And I really appreciated that if someone else were in your shoes and you were advising them, what would you say to them today? Based on what, you know, and particularly with this technique? Well, it's like, like I said, it met me where I was, right? So, the technique was very simple. It was and this is I mean, this he didn't invent this. You know, I didn't invent this. This is thousands of years old. So he said, I want you just to go home tonight. He said, and either lay in bed or sit on a chair. I was like, all right, I can do that, right? So I can do that. I didn't have to travel around the world. All I had to do was go home and either lay in my bed or sit in a chair. And he said, stare at the wall or the carpet and pretend that it's your job. I was like, I can do that. I have a wall and there's some carpet. And then he said, bring your attention to your breath. Okay, I'm breathing, right? I can do that. And he said watch your breath. Just like you watch the wall or the carpet.

Now watch your breath. Like it's your job. And he said anything that takes you away, any thought that takes your attention away from your breath just gently bring your attention back to your breath. That's it. That was it. I could do that no matter where I was, whether I was at work, whether that's something I could do. So what I always advise people to do and part of our whole nobody life project is you start where you are, right, you start with what you have. I couldn't really wait for someday. I wasn't even sure in those years I was going to have a someday. So I needed something that I could do now that could start me on the past. So I always tell people and that's our that's kind of our saying over and nobody life simplicity, clarity and mindfulness start simply start simply and that will help you get on this path from wherever you are. So was the journey that you've been on and the practice over time.

How has it evolved for you? How have things changed for you over over the course of, you know, and when did they really start to take off in terms of changes? Well, that's a really interesting question and it brings up what I hope is an interesting answer. And it's this I I don't really look at the practice. That's that practice really hasn't changed. My life has changed around the practice. And I think at least for me, I think that's a really important point because I think that's one of the stalwarts hallmarks of simplicity that that one practice has stuck with me as my life has changed as I've gone on and gotten other degrees and I've met different people in my life and travel different places and had different careers and met my wife and had my child through all of these waves of life that wash over me, that practice remains constant. So what's interesting is it's sort of a Touchstone for me to see how far I've strayed from simplicity, right?

Because I know when my life does start to get complicated and busy, I have a Touchstone of simplicity that I can always go back to. So I guess the answer is the way my life has changed as I'm heck of a lot more aware of my life around that practice. And that that has been a tremendous, tremendous gift because life isn't all roses after you learn a practice like that, that's the seed and the fertilizer and the initial cup of water. But then the process of growth begins and that's painful and or it can be painful, doesn't have to be. But you know, things happen, life happens, but that practice that seed is always there. So I think that's something that that was a real gift of that practice when I received it. I think there's a lot to be said for having something consistent. Yes, it was so much that we're dealing with in today's world. You know, so much change right now having something that we can rely on.

We can go back to, right. And I think that's a great that's a great point. That's a great point because right now we're all nobody really has it together. You know, we go on social media and it sure looks like people are having a great time at this time in history, you know, But we're all struggling with something right now somewhere in our lives and like you just said, it's so great to have something consistent that won't necessarily fix everything. But boy, it can sure ground us if we need it. Is there anything beyond the message that you are out there delivering for others, simplicity, clarity and mindfulness that kind of resonates as a personal philosophy for you that you live by? Well, that same teacher gave over the years and all the teachings and all the discussions, so many things stand out and one of the most powerful was this idea of nobody, you know, that that term has kind of cropped up in my life.

This idea of being nobody being along with the somebody's that we all are, we have this other side to us, this whole nobody's side, that side of space, right? Holding space, that side of creativity. That side of stepping back. So that was a really powerful teaching again, when life gets really complicated, when I get really embroiled in the labels and the the expectations of life. That's one that I love to touch on. And also the idea of the world being a mirror. You know that the world is reflecting back to us something about the space inside of us. And I think that meshes really well with the idea of being nobody. When we get too caught up in who we want to be. When we get too caught up in our labels. The world reflects sometimes stress back to us. Mm hmm. So, those teachings have been very, very powerful for me and I know that messages can be the same, but the clothing they wear can be different. And I know not everyone resonates with with that particular clothing. But those kinds of teachings marrying it with a third teaching of You have to be in the place where the learning is from.

My teacher would say that all the time when you're having difficulties in the world, When you're having challenges, If you're committed to a path of personal growth, there is there is a part of you somewhere inside that has to admit that this is the place of learning. This is the nourishment for seeds to grow. So, those teachings about the power of being nobody. You know, the world is a mirror being in the place where the teaching is from. It forms this beautiful collection. That has really helped me over life. A little more aware of the space. I take up, a little more aware of how I enter the world. A little more aware of how my interactions with other people affect me and affect them. So, those things have been very, very powerful for me over the years. And you know, you used the term repeatedly there about being aware and awareness and you know, awakening. I mean, the first step to awakening is awareness and being being aware of all the things that are around us, both the invisible and the visible.

And it's so, so easy for most of us to certainly be aware of the visible, but not so much the invisible. And I'm curious in your book, the nobody bible that you I think you take people on a personal journey within mind body spirit to help them move and transform their own lives. And I know it's it's it's also a compilation of a lot of different ancient wisdom and religions and things that you have learned along the way in that book, that can you speak a little bit more to what you have hoped to accomplish with your first book. Well, the nobody bible, I was stuck for many years. I had a message inside of me that I knew I wanted to get out about the power of this ancient wisdom and it took years of false starts and I could never really figure it out one day through a series of events. I saw something in me unlock and I suddenly had this idea that because I was at the time as a budding author, one of your first thoughts for many authors is how am I going to get an agent to represent this book?

How am I going to get a publisher to pick up this book? I would walk around in bookstores and think I'm nobody right. That was before I understood the power of the term. And it suddenly dawned on me after I learned about the power of being. Nobody wait a minute. We don't have to be rich, famous or ordained unlock the secrets of ancient wisdom just by doing the things that we do in our everyday life. Just by opening a door for somebody just by holding our grandmother's hand as we cross the street just by congratulating a neighbor on a beautiful new car they just purchased. We are living the truth of ancient wisdom. And once you realize that you realize that we are actually all walking on long expansion bridges that span history and we're all tapping into these same powerful wells of wisdom that we all have access to. So what I do in the book is I go through many of the world's major religious traditions and I pull out some of the core philosophies and pieces of those traditions that have really spoken to me over years of study and teaching things that students have really reacted to social work clients that I was treating have reacted to.

And I show how we all have access to these things right now in our everyday life. And once you understand that connection, once you ring that bell, you can't unring it. And for me those pieces of wisdom transformed the way I saw my day, my life still was, my life activity was still happening. But when I paired it was like pairing wine with a meal, when I had an event happened to me that was may be really difficult. I could pair it with a piece of ancient wisdom and realize that I have the power to not only deal with this situation but thrive in it and that was very powerful for me. So I broke that down in the nobody bible and got it out there and it really has been resonating with with a lot of people and that's been very gratifying. I've really been appreciative of that. I love that. And would you say that it's almost like putting on different lenses and being able to see things from different perspectives that we don't ordinarily sure.

And that's the evolution of the nobody ideas started as this idea of you don't have to be rich famous or ordained to tap into this wisdom but what it's become, what it's grown into. It was the subject of that ted talk. You mentioned. The idea has now grown into the this this thing that we're all somebody we are we have a somebody life where J. A were carol were. We're attorneys, were mothers, whatever labels we are. But those act like lenses like filters. So the nobody's side living, nobody life is about peeling away those labels. Or if you don't want to peel them all away, that's fine remembering through your day that there is a view that transcends those filters that transcends those labels. And it's through simplicity, clarity and mindfulness. It's through those three ideas that we can get in touch with that nobody's side. So then we don't walk around as somebody, right? We walk around as this beautiful swirling yin yang of somebody and nobody and we learn over time how to access those different parts of our being.

So we can appear in a courtroom as a somebody lawyer, but we can or somebody judge, right? But we can show mercy if we tap maybe into that nobody's side and try to be more empathetic. So those it's a beautiful way that everything works together. And so melissa and I created nobody life to do just what you talked about to help people understand the nature of labels and lenses and that it really does start right here. Well, that's pretty profound. It's all about simplicity, right? It is it is because so many of us are. It's so easy to just get caught up in your identity. I remember for years and years. I was caught up in my identity in the corporate world to stay caught up in it. Because everyone else was because I was competing with everybody else. Until one day it just dawned on me, what am I doing this for? This is not fulfilling me. And and that's that was a huge turning point for me for going down that path of nobody.

I'm feeling like I am not feeling like I had to to be somebody to feel worthy or to feel of value or to feel like I'm you know, contributing to the world and and it really changed my life. I'm curious if there's a statement. I think I read this on your website but I wanted to get your perspective on it. And it's a quote, we know more do more and are more than we ever imagined. That realization is never more than one simple ordinary act away. Right. Can you share a little bit more insight? Well, I think it goes back to the somebody nobody distinction. Mm hmm. The full name of the Ted X talk was I'm teaching my daughter to be nobody. And that doesn't make me a bad parent. So the way it relates to your question is I walked around for so long believing that the things that the things that I saw in my life and how I reacted to them were the totality of my life.

And once I realized that simple actions were actually reflections of ancient wisdom. Once I realized that I had that kind of power, I realized that I really did no more just helping someone across the street, letting someone this is an example. I use all the time. You know, letting someone with a cranky toddler get ahead of you in the grocery line. You may dismiss that is not a big deal, but you know how wise that is, that is wisdom when you do that, you know more, you do more. That is saintly. As somebody who recently had a toddler in a grocery line. My kid doesn't like to didn't like to go out when she was toddler and we really needed to rely on people to let us ahead of them in grocery lines because as you know, as parents know, you're on the clock right and our clock was very short. People did that for us and we all moved on with our day. But I saw it as saintly.

We know more, do more and are more than we ever imagined. And once you, like I said, this is wisdom of my father. Once you ring that bell, you can't unring it. Once you understand that your mere existence is wisdom is on occasion for all of us saintliness. You don't look at people and events the same way you cannot because if you had a flat tire and somebody pulled up behind you to help and they didn't match the kind of person that you're used to seeing or comfortable seeing in your daily life if you needed help with your tire are you needed their kidney or you needed them to let you ahead of you in the grocery line. You don't make those kinds of tests when you're in a crisis and when you bring that mentality to your rest of your life, suddenly, you know, more do more are more than you ever imagined.

So that struck me like a bolt when I was working through the things that eventually created the nobody bible was very profound for me. Those were profound realizations for me. They aren't for everybody, but they were for me well and they, you know, obviously they had meaning for you because they brought you to a point in your life where things were beginning to, for lack of a better term makes sense, you know, and because before that and I've been there, you know, just, you know, wandering around and thinking, I could have chosen any number of different things to to pursue and did, you know, pursue a variety of different things until finally, one day I, you know, I said, I'm just pursuing for the sake of pursuing and not really taking a good hard look at why I'm pursuing. And I think it's um it's interesting how when we see these, you know, loving kind acts from others, how it how it affects us emotionally and viscerally in our bodies.

I love seeing more, You know, loving kindhearted acts, I wish we would see more of those in here because there's plenty out there. We just, you know, in today's world, we're just not hearing about them all. Well, that's the key carol. That's the key with awareness. Because you're not going to necessarily get it from the media and you're not always going to get it from social media. But if you I mean, I know we're all a little constricted right now in our movements. But if we pay attention even to the limited movement, we may have right now at this time in history, it's up to us to see it. See we can't put we can't put the onus on media or social media to necessarily serve up to us the things that will create a release of good hormones. We can't necessarily wait for the world to deliver us the things that will make us positive or joyful. We have to make some kind of commitment that we are going to be willing to see it, that we will take responsibility for finding that in our lives.

And that doesn't mean your whole life is peachy. You know, I just when I cut Apple for my daughter, she's very, very sensitive to the rotten that you have to cut away. So there's always going to be that that yucky spot on the Apple of life. But it's up to us to see what's around that and some people, some people do that. Some people welcome that some people don't. It's okay, it's okay, it's a commitment you make when you're ready from wherever you are, and it doesn't make a difference when you make that decision. Just that you at least think about it, and that's all Melissa and I ever say with nobody life were not a rara site where, you know, come to us and all your problems will be that's not what we're about. We're about, look, you know, we have a facebook community, we started we have social media presence that we hold and our messages are always the same. What can you do right now to become more aware, we just did a thing about being more aware of your posture.

Did you ever stop to think about how you sit, how you stand, how it affects the space inside of you, You know, do you really know the things that you want in life? Do you have clarity around those things? If not it's time to maybe step back and think about it however you want. We don't tell you what to do. We start a dialogue about it. And I think that's the key, becoming aware, finding your communities of support and really making that commitment. I think that's really important. What is your vision for nobody life? Well right now, it's it's kind of an ironic question because our vision right now is to be very much in the moment with it and follow our intuition. So basically our our vision is if you put your hand up in front of your face, that's the moment. But you know what we'd like to do eventually is we'd like to build this like conscious community of people coming together, a very authentic community of people who say, look, we're ready to do simple things right now to change our life a little bit and we're ready to encourage other people to do that.

So our vision is we'd like to grow, you know, that facebook group, we'd like to eventually have classes online courses for people and summits that we do. That really spread this message and encourage other people to spread their message because living nobody life is about holding that space. And so we want a collaborative community. So that's really the vision is to grow a very collaborative community where people come together around simplicity, clarity and mindfulness and I know it's something that I know it's something that we can do. Well, I applaud you and I think that the timing is perfect for it with all that is really going on in the world right now and people are needing that that connection they want to be connected with like hearted people that want to make the world a better place and want to keep things simple and clear on what is truly important in in their lives. I'm also curious about your, your second book, which is a novel, ah an audible silence.

What inspired you to write your second book and to put it in the form of a novel? Well, that book that was actually the first manuscript I completed, but it wasn't the first book I published. So I had written that book, it was a series of, I had been doing a lot of creative journaling for years just to help me process because I was pairing journaling with that mindfulness technique because when I was doing that meditation, you know, connections would be made stuff would come up. So I'd write it down and I thought, well this would be something I'd really like to get out there and I wasn't quite sure I was like, well should I put it out, it's just a bunch of journal entries. And what I decided to do is I decided to create what would this look like in a fictional world around a character who's really struggling. This is a guy who's you know, the main character Jim this is a guy who's you know, he's battling with what we all battle with, he rubs that space on his left hand where that wedding band should be.

You know, he's struggling with anxiety. The book opens with his last pill falling down the sewer and there he is on a hot summer day stranded on a city street without, you know, this is stuff that I think on some level we can all relate to, this is a man who is truly stranded and what would happen if a mentor showed up and walked him through these teachings, what could happen. And so what an audible silence is, is the reflection of teachings that I've learned over the years that I've developed over the years. And what I'm trying to do is take the reader through what is really a conscious conversation between people to see what it might look like if you committed yourself too mindful, meditative practice and how those conversations would grow into things like what is the true nature of love? What is the true nature of forgiveness? What is the true nature of unity and by true nature? I mean, true that resonates for you.

So in the book, the main character walks through these conversations and his life doesn't transform by jetting around the world and You know, taking 10 days to go to this or that or do this or putting money aside. He's simply committing himself over a short span of time to becoming aware. So that's that that's an audible silence. And an audible silence refers to the the message is that we can receive if we're open to them in a quiet moment. And that's sort of the thread that weaves the book together is he's trying to understand these messages that are coming from the silence and then he talks them through in the real world and he sees that it's wisdom we all have, its wisdom we all share and its wisdom that can transform our lives again, that's very profound. I think there's a lot to be said for just asking ourselves the questions around, you know, what is the nature of forgiveness? What is the nature of love and what does it mean mean to us?

What, you know what resonates with us? And I think if we did more asking of those kinds of questions and even journaling about them, writing them down, just taking the time to think about them, we might find some surprising things in our lives that bring more meaning to what those the answers are to those questions, right? And the answer is that, you know, the key is though, right on that point, the key is that the answers to those questions aren't fix its you know, everybody, I think I think there's this idea sometimes in the personal growth area because I write in this, I write in a really difficult genre, you know, you know, when you write about ancient traditions and personal growth, that's not that's a hard space to write in because I think sometimes people will come to that genre, including the author by the way we come to that genre looking for an answer. And really what I hope to do through my books is get you to a place where you start to ask your own questions and find your own answers.

And then again, that's the nobody life project, right? That's the nobody life experiment. If we open ourselves to like you said, journaling quiet space conscious conversations. If we just ask the questions, you would be amazed asking the question itself is I have found much much more powerful than reading someone else's answer. And that is really the spirit that pushed an audible silence. I think I love that. I think there's a lot to be said for all of us. Taking the time to do that. Because I would I would imagine that there would be interesting differences and how people would respond to those questions. Also some commonalities Absolutely. On both of those counts. And that's the joy, right? Because in nobody life in living, I don't mean our site necessary. But living nobody life, I have an answer that works for me. That's my somebody's side, right? But then I access my nobody's side. I pull back and I create a stage and on that stage you present your answer that works for you and all we do is hold that space for each other's answer.

That's the point. That's the that's the human experiment in my estimation. That's the human experiment because nobody changes their mind because they see a bumper sticker or because a talking head on a new show screams at them. People don't change minds as a professor of mine once said, the real trick is to change hearts and we don't change hearts from our somebody's side, that's where we change minds from our nobody's side is where we change hearts because once somebody feels like their heart has a space to speak now, like you would say it's risen up now, it's open, that heart rises up a little bit in that space because it has room to it's not constrict. So that's the kind of space that melissa and I are trying to create out there and we're trying to do it consciously and intuitively, I think you're doing some wonderful service in the world for others. I love this perspective and the approach that you both are taking, appreciate that.

Yeah, I think you're just it's just awesome. And you know, I want to just wrap this up if we can. I've got to a few just additional quick questions for you. This is what I've been asking people a lot, but on the show, if you had a genie in the bottle and only one wish, what would that be? You know, for me, that question always differs by the time it's asked. Right? It depends when that when that bottle washes up, right right now, if I were to find that bottle, I'd say, look please, can you just help the world find its center. Just we, I I would, I would really just wish that this world could find peace and I don't know what form that would take. We never know what form that will take. But right now, I think we could all use a lot of healing and a lot of peace. Absolutely. So I'd be begging that genie up and down for that. Well I'm releasing the genie out of the bottle right now.

So your your wishes is out there. Wonderful. I predict that it will come. It will come true. How beautiful would that be. Yes, it would. And it doesn't mean we all have to believe the same thing. If we could all just hold space for others beliefs boom, you'd have peace. That's right, That's right. You just hit the nail on the head boom. You know, if we could just hold space for everyone else's piece. Yeah. Any advice you have for others to rise up to their loving heart centered, higher self. Well for us on the nobody life project, it always comes back now to the same thing, simplicity, clarity, mindfulness. You know those words are their tools and their goals, right? I mean, these are these are the things that I believe can quiet us down wherever we are. Even if we're constricted even if we're home, even if we can't leave our home and when we are quieter, at least for me, I believe that when we get quiet inside we are better at responding to life instead of reacting to it right?

You know, we can think through a problem with a calmer mind. We can I guess for me most importantly here what intuition is saying. So really remembering that mantra, whether you support the Nobody life project and here it there or whether you don't and you just say it to yourself, simplicity, clarity, mindfulness. If you can take those three words with you, I think that would be the best way to help your heart grow. I really do. I honestly, because I know that it's done that for me and it's done it for melissa and we're passing it on as best we can. I agree you can apply it in so many different ways in your life plus it rolls off the tongue pretty easily. I like that. Well, good. That that that was a happy accident. Well j it's been a pleasure having you on the show and I would love for you to share where people can learn more about you and connect with you. Well we have our facebook group. Nobody life page on facebook is living nobody life but our group is nobody life and you can find pretty much everything at nobody life dot com.

If you go to nobody life dot com forward slash links, you can find the books are on that site, links to our instagram. I'm at j plaster melissa is at melissa plaster on instagram. So we really just want people to enter the community from whatever way they feel good and we have a free giveaway on the site. We have a mindfulness Quick start guide and it's a little too page guide that no matter who you are or where you are, it's a series of simple steps you can take to practice mindfulness right now, wherever you are, whatever you're doing. So those are some fun things that we have. And we look forward to really seeing people. So nobody life dot com, That's our home. Perfect. Well, we'll make sure that all of this is in our show notes. Thank you. And we'll also reference the free giveaway. The mindfulness. Quick start guide. I think that's a terrific tool that I think anyone could use, especially somebody who's very interested in mindfulness. I want to thank you so much for being on the show and thank you for having me.

Yes. And I'm looking forward to tracking and staying on top of your progress going forward and just also blossoming our friendship and just camaraderie. I agree, since we operate in a very similar space here. Yes, we do. Thank you so much. J thank you. I really appreciate it and there you have it. Thank you all of you for tuning your heart's in once again for the hearts rise up podcast. I hope you have a blessed day. Thanks so much for being with us. Mhm mm hmm. We hope today's show helped to bring a bit more joy and happiness into your heart. We hope it inspired you to unleash your inner power and rise up to your best and loving heart centered highest self, we'd be grateful if you'd leave us a review on ITunes. Those reviews are important to spreading this valuable message. We'd love for you to subscribe to our podcast and share the show with others, visit hearts rise up dot com for heart centered courses, guided meditations and are popular notes from your higher self until next time, Keep rising up and may all that you love thrive.