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Ep. 21 - From Clutter to Life-Altering Energetic Change - An Interview With Jen Rao

by Hearts Rise Up
March 9th 2020
In this episode, Carol interviews Jen Rao, founder of Clear Your Life. Jen's a professional organizer specializing in clutter clearing (and its magical benefits). Life wasn't always clutter-free for J... More
mm hmm. No. Okay, mm hmm. Hello to all of you. Hearts rise up podcast listeners. Thank you for tuning your heart's in for another episode. I'm carol chapman, your host for today on this podcast. We share our own personal experiences, tips and strategies, along with powerful stories and compelling insights from guests that we interview on the show. Our purpose is to inspire you to rise up to your best and highest self, tap into your own inner wisdom and elevate your state of being your life and the world around you. It's that simple. So let's get right into today's episode. I'd love to introduce my featured guests this week, Jen Rio Jenn is the founder of Clear Your Life. She's a professional organizer, specializing in clutter clearing and all its magical benefits.

And she is currently based out of squamish british Columbia. Up until about 10 years ago, Jen's life was cluttered, stressful and her stuff was weighing her down. She had an overflowing closet but never anything to wear. Sound familiar. Missing car keys that were lost on average of seven times a week. Oh my goodness! That could be frustrating, constantly missed late work deadlines while being overlooked for promotions she wanted After a while, jen dedicated so many years to purging letting go and setting intentional goals to clear her life after much success doing that in her life. She knew she could help others do the same. And voila a business idea was birthed and she's well on her way, jen. I am so excited to have you on the show. Welcome. Thank you carol. It's so great to be here. I'm really excited for this conversation, you know, this is such a hot topic.

I think for everyone these days because we all have so much clutter in our lives except for those that I think practice a mentalist lifestyle or those who are really, really organized, but I would love for you to share a little bit more about your journey and your, your intentions in life and work. Um, as a, as a way of just elaborating a little bit more. Um, what I just shared as far as an intro about you. Absolutely. Well, it's funny because I like to let people know that usually when an organizer introduces themselves, it's very common to see for them to say that they've been organized their whole lives, they were born to do this, you know, they were folding their parents underwear when they were three or four years old and that it's just always been how they were and that really wasn't the case for me. So I grew up in a home where we shopped all day as a family outing, we exchanged lots and lots of presents for the holidays and lots, just lots of stuff and we always kept our stuff.

Um, and as I grew up and moved out of my childhood home and um moved items from apartment to apartment and then into my home with my husband. I started to realize how much it was weighing me down. Um and then the other piece was that I wasn't a naturally organized person. So like, like I've tell people I would lose my car keys and I just, things weren't in an easy spot to find. Um and I got really interested in minimalism blog, so I don't technically call myself one, but I definitely lived by a lot of the minimalist principles. Um, and what I found so fascinating was the less things I had in my life, the more organized I became because it's just so much easier and one of my favorite changes that's happened in my life since I've really got serious about my clearing, it's, you know, everyone who gets into this will do it for a different reason and for myself and my husband, it was really so that we could travel more.

So I went from not having a passport barely leaving my home country of Canada always wanting to travel but not having the money or the time or the, I guess the ability to really bring that dream to life and the more clutter I cleared started going on trips and going all over the world and we would declutter and take the money from what we sold and put it into travel funds and now travels. Just number one priority in my life and having less stuff really supports me in that I imagine that's got to be extremely liberating. Yes, It was and we actually, we just finished traveling full time for two years. We went really extreme. And whenever I share this part of my story and make sure that people know that I don't expect this from everyone. So my husband and I sold, we had a 600 square foot home and we sold it and moved into um, a custom RV.

So we lived on on the road in 100 and 12 square feet. So I literally downsized everything in my life. Like there was no stone left unturned. Um, two years ago when we, when we decided to do this and for us it was just a lot of fun. But yes, that was especially liberating the more you let go of and push through that fear of letting go. There's just, there's a real feeling of freedom and flexibility on the other side that I want as many people as possible to experience well and I can relate to what you're saying to a certain extent because there was a time where I had lived in 1/5 wheel, believe it or not for like 2.5 years while my husband and I were building a house in colorado and it was like an eight by 27 ft fifth wheel and we had two dogs and well we had one dog at the time and two cats and I have to admit it really was pretty liberating even though we had a lot of our stuff kind of in storage in the house, we weren't able to live in the house, you know, so we all we needed was just a few simple things and when I think back on that, I kind of wish I had done it differently.

And so I think that there's something to be said if we all just took the time to start decluttering that and just getting rid of things that we just don't need or you haven't used for a certain amount of time, just get rid of it because it's just taking up space, Right? Yes, absolutely. It's taking up space. It makes your daily life more difficult because you have more decisions to make or you have spent more time looking for things if you can't find them. So that was what it was like for me, it was always just looking for things. And then the other piece of decluttering that I love talking about is the fact that our belongings are there's energy tied to them. So if someone gives you a gift, even if you were, they were doing something nice for you, but then you're just holding onto it because you don't really want it, but you feel bad getting rid of it. Like there is an energy surrounding that gift and every time you look at it, every time you walk by it or every time you think about it taking up space in your home that's affecting you on some level.

And so that's where I really guide people to learn to let go to give yourself that space back because it really I don't use the word magical lately. I really believe that when you let go of things that you don't need or love or want in your life, you just you feel better emotionally, physically like on every level it just it's healing. So how do you help people kind of get through that initial hurdle because everyone is different, right? And I imagine you've dealt with a variety of different people on different levels in terms of their attachment to things, because it's it's our attachment, right? So how do we un attach ourselves to things? Well, I think before you even work on, on attaching yourself, I really work with people to become more kind to themselves. So I do a lot of work with my clients around gratitude and affirmations and really getting their mindset right before they go into this because what I see is people get frustrated with their clutter, They really want to get rid of it, but then they have the storyline that they're repeating over and over again that I'm just so unorganized or I'm so messy or I don't like how my apartment looks and if you're trying to declutter while you're saying those things you won't see the results that you want.

So I always start with making sure people are in the right mindset in order to make positive change. Um and then then I always recommend just starting so easy. One of the most common questions I get is or comments is that oh my gosh, I just, I don't know where to start. I look around everywhere and I just, I get frustrated because I don't know where to start and then they don't start. So and there's a lot of fear about letting go of really emotional items or gifts are a good example or of family hair looms and so because your ego knows that you're wanting to make this change in your life, it's going to throw up all of these reasons why it's hard and why you shouldn't. So I recommend that people start decluttering bathroom toiletries, their kitchen pantry, under their kitchen sink, their mail, like just items that don't have sentimental value, but give them a positive boost of actually completing the work and seeing that they can do it, that they went in their bathroom vanity was a disaster.

They took everything out, you know, went through and called the collection, put everything back and now every time they opened that vanity door, feel a sense of pride and like, wow, I can do it. I always say start easiest and that's exactly that is honestly what I did and go as easy as possible. And then because you're building momentum as you do it. So the more momentum you have, the more confidence you have and the decisions start to become easier. But if you get caught up where you're a little bit further down the line and you do have a tough decision to make a very helpful question that I've learned to ask is do I want to bring this into my future with me? So if you're holding on to a jacket that belonged to your Grandpa and 30, you know, it's 50 years old and it's just been stuffed away in a closet. And you're at that point in your clutter clearing journey where you are actually facing the hard stuff like is the does it support the person you want to become the life you want to live or or are you just holding onto it because you feel like a bad person if you let it go, because that's never a good reason to keep anything.

Because then again it comes, it comes back to the energy, you know, it's just that guilt energy. It does. Can you share with us a little bit more about you were talking about, you know, mindset, going to shift your mindset and how you approach things or view things? How did you do that with yourself? Because I'm assuming that everything that you teach your clients, you have been through yourself? Yes, absolutely. I walked the walk Absolutely. I want to hear your story. What were your challenges and how did you, how did you make the shifts in the mind. Yeah, so I started my mindset work a few years before I really got into my own clearing journey, but it was absolutely in a journal. So I started journaling in 2006. Um and then I really started decluttering in 2009 and so I was just picking up different, different activities to do in my journal.

I still write in it absolutely every day and I think that my, my top three examples for using a journal to work on your mindset, number one is always keeping a gratitude list. Um so you know, I am so happy and grateful because and then just and every single day putting at least one entry and allowing yourself to put as many as you feel like um so definitely gratitude writing out affirmations that lift up your, your mood and make you feel like heck yes, I can actually do something or give yourself permission to do or feel a certain way I share affirmations on my instagram page and the biggest response I've ever got was an affirmation that was, I am allowed to say no! And it was just incredible because all of a sudden I had all these people that weren't even following me on instagram or writing and being like, oh my gosh, yes, thank you, thank you. I think affirmations are so, so important to lift your mindset and then the third one and which is so fun specifically when it comes to clutter clearing is to write out your ideal future as if it's already happened.

And I absolutely did this. I actually went through some of my old journals last summer and found the pages where I wrote, now that I've cleared the clutter out of my bedroom. I look around and I take a deep breath and I smile, I'm so calm and it's so peaceful and I would constantly write things like that and I still write my future for what I want to come true next. You know, So when I got really into travel, I said now that I have saved this money, I'm so grateful that I can travel the world with my husband and this was all happening before I had actually done any of it. But literally every single thing I've ever written like that in any of my journals for the last 14 years. Every single thing has come true. Everything. I absolutely love this, of course, I'm right into this, to the gratitude and the affirmations. But it really is just that simple. So the three things just to summarize the three things to really begin shifting your mindset that anyone can do, particularly if they want to truly want to declutter all things in their life, is to feel grateful and and write it down in a journal and you know, start a journal and start just identifying what are the things that you're grateful for that's that's in your life right now, or even the things that you're grateful for that, you know that this is what you want, your future to be.

Affirmations is another thing just affirm what it is that is very important to you that you want to be and feel. And then the last is write down what's your ideal future or future state is, do I get those right? Yes. And the important thing about the ideal future state is you write it as though it's already happened so that you're not using your journal to dream and wish for things to come true. You're literally telling your subconscious like this is happening and it's already happened. I love that. Yeah, it's so fun. That's how you reprogram your subconscious because we have just been conditioned years and years and years of thinking certain thought patterns that sometimes it becomes so ingrained, it's really hard to shift that and and I think that's so important, write it as though it's already happening. So it's, you know, zero distance from the future. You're living the future in the present. That is so powerful.

Yeah. And you can't help but feel excited to your, you know, your whole, your body changes when you read what you what's already happened over and over again, that you you become it. Yeah. So what happened then as you started shifting your mindset with these techniques, simple techniques that anyone can use by the way, what happened next? Yeah, I just um then, so it was a few years of, you know, reprogramming my mindset through my journal and then I came to learn about clutter clearing, which is not something that's been passed down in my family. Like I said, I was one, I think I was one of the first to to really take it on and I just became fascinated with it and I love doing it, I ended up enjoying it so much and I love to cook. So you know, after I completely cleared out our kitchen and we only had exactly what we wanted and there wasn't one cupboard in my kitchen that I would open and something would topple or I'd have to go digging for things.

It was just my whole life. Got more organized, I got more organized, I got promoted at work. That sounds kind of like a cliche but it's honestly what happened because I took all of these clearing and simplified ways that I was living at home and I was a coffee house manager at the time and I brought all of those tactics into my work life and then all of a sudden I was ahead on my Edmund Edmund paperwork. My staff were happier. Our story was cleaner, like it just, it spreads throughout my whole life. That's amazing and you can't help but allow that to flow into other aspects of your life because that's who you are becoming, who you are being internally? Yes, So you're changing from the inside out, right? Yeah. Where are you at right now? I mean what are the things that, because I know you said you were traveling, are you still traveling or are you kind of in one place for right now for a while?

Yeah, so we, we actually just moved into 1/5 wheel. So it's funny that you said you were living in one and so for us right now it is such a big size upgrade we can imagine to go to go from like we had all of the basic amenities in our last home on wheels but this one size wise really is a big step up and what my husband and I have decided now is we do call squamish home but we still were able to take months off at a time and we will most likely be taking our new fifth wheel and taking it through north America on a trip next year. We live seasonally right now. So because we do a lot of house and pet sitting because our both of our work schedules and our living situation is so flexible that one of the wonderful things that I didn't even plan when I started living this way is we've had lots of great people ask if we can take care of their pets, their dogs and cats and so we actually just finished a five week house sitting stints yesterday and so now we find that we just kind of live season to season.

So right now we're going to be in a campground, a really lovely campground for the next four months. And honestly right now we actually don't even know where we'll be parked after that. But what we've learned in the last two years is to not stress about not knowing and to just again like the future, journaling think about how I want to feel and what I would like my summer to look like and honestly everything just always falls into place. So, so we're kind of, we have a home base and we have a hometown, but we are able to still make travel a really big part of our lives. I love that and really by just really what you're doing is you're holding space for whatever to manifest in your life. You don't have to worry about the how yeah, you're, you're taking the mindset tools that you have used for originally decluttering and you're applying them to your life and bringing the law of attraction in your life by visualizing and the and feeling how you want the future to be and sort of bringing it into the present moment.

I love that. So one of the things that you're working on right now that it excites you, you mentioned that you recently joined an association of professional organizers, tell us a little bit more about that or whatever, whatever it is that you're working on right now, that really excites you Sure, clear your life was just a twinkle in my eye, probably starting in 2016, and it didn't officially become what it was, what it is today until 2018, and the whole time that I've been building it, my husband and I, like I said we were on the road. So originally it was a fully online business. So I've done email coaching, group programs and workshops all online to help people with their clutter. And now that we've chosen a home base, I'm still doing all of those things online, but a really exciting new part of my life is getting actually into people's homes and helping them declutter with one on one sessions. So I've done some already. And it's funny because I, I left 12 year Career in coffee and the restaurant industry, I was in that even longer than 12 years and I'm finding this amazing crossover to be able to help people, you know, dig through their stuff and make it fun and then put it all back together in a, in a better way.

So yeah, that's, that's the most exciting thing right now, is actually getting to work with people one on one in person. I think there's probably nothing more pleasurable than to see how people's eyes light up when they start to make progress. Yes, yes. And especially to go from fearful too excited because when you, some people, so like, here's the thing, I was in a space where I was unorganized. We, I had a lot of clutter. Um I shopped way too much. Like my habits were out of whack in terms of keeping my life orderly. And I was lucky enough that through reading blogs and really digging into it and getting kind of really intensely excited about it, I was able to do this on my own. But I know and I've dealt and helped a lot of other people where that's just the reading the blog, they're like, oh man, I wish I could do that, but I just scared and they just can't. So I absolutely love being empathetic and kind and caring and funny and just helping people relax and showing them how it can be an enjoyable experience and just sharing your journey?

I think it gives them a lot of confidence knowing that you know you've been there, done it and you've done it on your own without any help from anyone else and that its tried and proven because you've worked through the kinks and probably always working through the, the kinks because each individual is is different. So I just think that's awesome. So what's on the horizon for you within the next year or two? What do you hope to accomplish by settling into a place and getting into people's homes or do you even have an idea at this point as to how do you want that future state? That could be too far down the road? I don't know. Yeah, I'm not really looking at next fall yet. So that's about as far as I go. So, but I do know that I'm, I'm ready and excited to keep working with clients one on one in their homes. I'm also trained in Ricky and trained in Ricky space clearing. So for that's a piece that I haven't brought into the mix of my business yet.

But that's another on the horizon, exciting opportunity that I will be adding. So for me, I just, I want people to know that decluttering generally. And especially if you're having trouble with it. It's more than just printing off a checklist off of Pinterest. If you are down on yourself, if you're down on where, what you see when you look around your home and you print out those checklists, you're just going to not do it and and then the cycle continues because you just feel bad that you're not following through. So I love helping people with the mindset and the journaling and just the energy, the energetic possibilities. I get really fired up about it. So I think it would be helpful to delve in just a little bit deeper around how this decluttering process. It's not just a physical thing, but it really, truly is a remarkable transformative thing for different aspects of your life? Are there any examples that you'd like to share yourself or even with some of your clients where there has been this shift in everything that they've done in their life beyond just the, you know, the basic de cluttering, but how it has helped their mind and other aspects of their life, their relationships even, you know, right, well, I, one of my earliest people that I helped declutter.

I love this story so much so she did so much good work and she was living alone in a, in an adorable little apartment and I was the person that would come and we would fill up my car with her garbage bags of donations because it was in her adult life. It was her first big clear out. So we worked together and it was really great to see how far she had come. And one day she brought me into her apartment and brought me into the bedroom and she said, I'm excited, I want to show you something jen. And I said, okay, so we're standing in front of her closet and it was perfectly half full. So she, and it was, I don't even know if you could close the doors before, like it was, there was a lot of clothes. So it was all of her clothes were beautifully hung and really easy to get at and the other half was empty and she looked at me and she said, I made room, I'm ready. I made room for him. And so she was single at the time and within three or four months she met the love of her life and they are still together living together.

He moved into that apartment and yeah, she energetically sent the message out to the universe like okay, I've been single and I was you know, there was no room in my life for someone else and now I'm ready. And he showed up easily, wow, what a beautiful story. I mean really? Yeah, and it's true, it's really that's 100% true story and it's one of my favorite ones to tell. And she was very intentional about that. I mean actually a light bulb must have gone off in her head at one point and she said, oh my gosh, this is what I need to do. Yeah. And that's that's such a beautiful story and then I helped another woman And this one is really interesting too because she, we worked on her home office and so what had happened was her home office was cluttered with printouts from old courses that she never finished scrapbooks with old ideas that she never followed through on and then just other sources of clutter but those were the ones that really stood out to me.

So I said, okay why are you holding on to all of that stuff? And the more we talked it kind of boiled down to a fear which is you know, fear is usually the underlying thing that's holding us back But she said i on some level, I'm scared that I won't have a good idea in the future. So I can't let go of those old ones and we talked through it and when she let go of it and she cleared her home office space, she ended up producing a podcast that had been her dream to do for a really long time. But she was procrastinating and scared and didn't do it and once she said her office space up, how she really wanted it into an inspiring space. She, She recorded the 1st season of her beautiful podcast. Oh well that's that's another just beautiful story how someone has really taken it and how it has transformed another aspect of her life, which really is, you know, the business side of things, What do you say to people when they, when they feel like they don't have enough time to focus on, even if it's just you know, starting with the bathroom, I mean because we know how it is.

You know, everyone's always fixated on time. I don't have time. I have too much stuff in my life. What am I going to fit this in? What do you say to them? Well the tough love side of me says you do and you're choosing not to and that can be really hard to hear, but it's true because your life is a series of choices and there are other things in your life that you are choosing that are more important than decluttering because if it's, if you have five minutes a day to scroll on instagram you have five minutes a day you could be decluttering. So that's like that's the tough love answer. And then the more um you know the the other side of me, so I'm a gemini is them to two sides, right? So that's that's tough jen. But you know the more loving general say that any little bit that you can do will help and the more you do it and more confidence you build, it becomes like the snowball effect of doing more. I'm a really big fan of concentrating on the smallest projects possible.

Like I've told people okay organize your pencil cup, go through it and get rid of the pens that don't work anymore. Like have these little moments in your day where you can Start and finish even the smallest of projects one drawer at a time, maybe one shelf of your toiletries at a time if it feels like um it's too much otherwise, you know, there's lots of different ways that you can try to declutter. And I know there's lots of different methods out there and some of them recommend doing the big sweep of your whole life and honestly for some and that's the thing, it's going to be different for everyone um because I see validity in those recommendations. But if you are too overwhelmed to even think about doing that, then I really, I recommend going as small as possible to start and then and celebrating. So you you want to get the good juju going, you know, like if you're just wanting to do a bigger project, but then it always falls to the bottom of your to do list, you're just creating that loop of being like, oh well look at me, I can't do it, you know?

So do choose something smaller that you can do. I think that's great advice and just to sum it up really, you know, you said that life is really a series of choices and it really is about taking accountability for ourselves. We can choose to do this or we can choose to do that Because we all have the same 24 hours in a day. Right? So what we choose to focus on and and once we make that choice, if we have to take it in the smallest pieces possible, whatever, whatever chunks, little chunks we can, we can bite off. I think that's great advice because that's things I've done myself is like, Okay, how much can I really do here if I want to clear out this office, you know? So right, one drawer to try at a time and I think that's just great, great advice. And now I understand you have a free offer for our listeners here. I'd love to learn a little bit more about that. Sure. So I teach my clients and my online audience about the clear your life method and it's just, it's four steps to repeat each time you take on a clutter clearing project, no matter the size of it.

Because what I found was one people always said they didn't have enough time, they didn't know where to start. And often people, if they tried to declutter, they would make a bigger mess than when they started and then get distracted and all of a sudden they're living in a bigger mess. So I wanted to come up with, it was something that would help people, one that was based off of how I cleared my life and then to also acknowledge these challenges that people had. So it's just four steps for me, if you can learn a repeatable process where you're not reinventing the wheel every single time you're trying to declutter, it's going to take that level of stress and almost decision making away from the process because you just know, okay, I'm going to follow these four steps every time and they work on that pencil cup project that I gave as an example or you can do it in your whole closet. One of the steps talks about making sure that you're committing to better habits because there's no point in doing all this decluttering work if you're still shopping when you're bored or you know, buying or subscribing to a monthly package that comes every month of things that are just piling up and piling up but really getting clear on.

Okay, like how did the space that I'm working on, get like this and what do I need to change so that it doesn't go back to that state? I think that's again great advice and I think that our listeners will find that pre guide extremely valuable. It's, it's a great way to kick start some things and so before we close and share a little bit more about where people can learn about you. I'd love to just share a few more interesting facts about you personally and this is just kind of like a rapid fire, quick question around if that's okay with you. So if you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be? Oh boy, okay. I just thought of willow tree, Willow tree and that, you know, the willow tree is so beautiful, It really is and it has really deep and wide reaching roots. I don't know what you knew that, but I didn't know, but that's perfect and now I have big curly hair, So perfect tree for you. Absolutely represents you. Well, oh thank you.

And secondly if you were a bird or an animal, what kind of bird or animal would you be? Oh boy, um a cat, mysterious moody, loves to nap and when once on your good side, just the most loving, honest ever. Yeah. Oh I love that. I love cats too. Yeah. What's your favorite color? Blue, definitely. And I wear blue. So I wear blue, gray, black and white. I have, that's my life uniform. Love it. I also recommend that to people if you have too many clothes. Exactly. Certainly if you want to kind of minimize, just wear something very basic that really flatters you and that you feel good and colors that you feel good in. Yeah. Do you have a favorite scent? No, I don't think I do. Okay. Yeah. I was just waiting for one to pop into my head and it hasn't. I mean I love the smell of lemongrass, let's say lemon grass so bright and fresh.

Yeah. Lemongrass is nice and it's, it is good for you to um, it's in a lot of drinks which brings me to the next one. What's your favorite drink? Coffee? Not surprised having worked in the coffee and history for so long. And do you have a favorite book that would love to just tell your readers about the four agreements? The four agreements was at the very beginning of my mindset turn around So Around 2006 I think was when I first read it. And yes, it's short and easy to read and it will stay with you forever. That's, that's a great book. And just a few other questions what inspires you owe other people nature travel. I'm not surprised about that. And if there was any advice that you won one piece of advice that you would offer others to rise up to their best and highest self, what might that be? Practice gratitude and a real, you know, not just being grateful for the good in your life, but being able to shift your mindset and see the good and the challenges that you have as well.

And I don't mean to say to paint everything with fake positivity, that's actually a big lesson that I've learned in the last decade. You know, there are there's tough things going on in the world, there's tough things going on in your life, but there's still a mindset of gratitude that can help carry you through the ups and downs of life that I think is so important. Well there's a lot to be said about that because there's a significant amount of research around gratitude and how it is one of the single most important factors that if we cultivate it can really boost our overall well being in so many different aspects of our life and just real quickly. And then you'll give me the link to the guide, where can listeners find out more about you as far as your website and your social channels? Yes, so my website is Clear your life dot C A and the guide is available basically on every page of my website, but if you go to clear your life dot se slash guide, that's where you can find out more about it.

And it's actually really interesting because we're early in 2020 while recording this episode, I'm actually starting to really declutter my social media and how much I'm trying to do with clear your life. So right now, my website, I publish blogs regularly. I love instagram. It is a place of joy for me right now. So I'm at clear your life on instagram and then my email list. So those are the channels right now that I'm really holding onto and putting my best energy and awesome. All right, well, we'll be sure to include those in our show notes, jen I can't thank you enough for your words of wisdom here. Just all the, all the things that I've learned, I just admire you for what you've done with your life and turning things around this is great. Thank you. Thanks carol. I'm so glad the universe brought us together. It was definitely meant to be Me too. Thanks for being on the show and I hope to have you back in the future. So you can share a little more about the next chapter in your journey.

Amazing, thank you. Okay, thank you, wait, don't go yet. Stay with us just a bit longer before you go. We hope today's show helped to bring a bit more joy and happiness into your heart. We also hope that it inspired you to unleash your own inner power and to rise up to your best and loving, heart centered, highest self. And we'd love for you to subscribe to our podcast and share the show with others, particularly those episodes that are your favorite. You can reach out to us at www dot hearts rise up dot com, or you can email us at hello at Hart's rise up dot com. Well, that's it for now. Until next time. Keep rising up and may love and happiness always be in your heart. Bye for now. Mm hmm. Okay. No. Mhm mm hmm.

Ep. 21 - From Clutter to Life-Altering Energetic Change - An Interview With Jen Rao
Ep. 21 - From Clutter to Life-Altering Energetic Change - An Interview With Jen Rao
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