Okay on the road? Mm hmm. Mhm. Hello to all of your Hearts Rise up podcast listeners. Thank you for tuning your heart's in for another episode of this podcast. I'm carol chapman, your host for this episode on this podcast. We share our own personal experiences, tips and strategies along with powerful stories and compelling insights from guests that we bring on our show. Our purpose is to inspire you to rise up to your best and greatest self, tap into your own inner wisdom and elevate your state of being your life and the world around you. It's that simple. So let's get right into today's episode. I want to introduce my featured guest today. I am so excited to have jazz healthy on the show. Jazz is a multi passionate blogger writer and entrepreneur after dropping out of university. He previously worked in sales before leaving the city in 2015 to study a master's in positive psychology and he hasn't worked in an office since.

Alongside his masters. He started his first entrepreneurial venture, Thrive in 2016, an alternative higher education program for 18-24 year olds. He's also run various blogs for introverts, including his latest introvert blog, I. N. F. Club dot Co for I. N. F. P and I. N. F. J. Personality types, many of whom identify as highly sensitive introverts. A K A H. S. P. S. Jazz is currently learning about investing and trading and is also publishing his first novel this year. Jazz also writes poetry from time to time and journals daily and he's been fortunate to visit five continents though. He calls Southwest London England home. I am so delighted to have Jazz on the show today. And he and I have a few things in common. And also not only is he a multi passionate blogger, but he's also what I refer to as a multi potential ite.

He has so many varied interests. Jazz, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me carol. Yeah, I've been um looking forward to this ever since you were kind enough to invite me. So it's good to be here. Yeah, it's great to have you with us. And so with that as a starter, share a little bit more about yourself and then we'll find a jumping in point. Sure. Oh my goodness. Yeah, it's um I think that yeah, I've got a whole bunch of interests and I think that that can be a good thing and sometimes not so good thing when you're trying to focus, but I try and lean into it being a good thing. It's funny, I was actually on a call with a friend before this too now and then I kind of have to reflect on what I'm focusing on just because I have got so many interests. So I had kind of had like a strategy focused session before we recorded this interview with a friend of mine actually a mutual friend of mine, jay who we've both spoken to. Yeah, just just a bunch of interest and I think for me really? Yeah, Oh gosh, I've almost done more things than I knew I had done with you reading out that bio at the beginning, but I think especially in the last Four years since 2015, a big turning point for me was leaving the city um for someone who is an introvert, but I think in particular a sensitive introvert, I identify as being a highly sensitive person and long days in sales in the city for me were so exhausting and overwhelming and it's only since I kind of broke away from that that I've kind of being able to recalibrate and figure out more about myself and get in touch with parts of myself and some of my interests um which I just didn't have the time and space or in a way awareness for because I was so exhausted, I can so relate to that.

Yeah, I've been there, I've been there in the, in the corporate world and just so much energy, so much happening, so much going on that, you know, it can be a bit overwhelming for introverts, right? Yeah, introverts and and especially I discovering I was an introvert was a really powerful realization for me as it was for many people and in the last few years we've enjoyed a bit of a kind of an introvert uprising with Susan cain and the talk, but I feel now that this highly sensitive movement feels like it's got some energy in it and you know, you mentioned the corporate world cities, there's something about that, you know, busy frenetic life of cities of working for Corporates, that is just really difficult for sensitive people to to manage. Not impossible, but it's difficult to manage and I kind of feel like there's a bit of a, there's a bit of a movement and a bit of a like an awakening happening where we're kind of realizing that's the case and trying to do something about it.

Exactly. When did you first notice that you were highly sensitive? That's a great question? Um oh gosh, I think, I guess always I've known that I'm a little bit in quotation marks different. And then when I I discovered I was an introvert around 2014, I think I thought oh that was it. But actually my high sensitivity it was whilst I was reading all the, the introvert books, I stumbled across this whole highly sensitive thing through Dr Elaine Aron who's like the authority on the subject and I read her book and like that was like, oh gosh, I'm not just an introvert, I'm a sensitive introvert, so I would, I would guess that that would have been around maybe Maybe 2016 at the back end of 2015 or 2016 at some point, there's just a whole that whole period, I was doing a whole lot of reading books listening to podcasts, reading blogs, just trying to kind of soak up everything I could about introversion and it was that kind of delving into the world of introversion and kind of the world of Myers Briggs, which I'm, yeah, I've also kind of led into, I'm an I N.

F. P. That I stumbled across that. Yeah, I think it was just a few months after I discovered I was an introvert. Can you describe for our listeners some may not be familiar with these terms, you know, being highly sensitive and I think we all know introversion and extroversion but not, we don't know, I don't think everyone really totally understands the difference between the two because one is not better than the other. It's just different in terms of how we experience the world and how we get our energy at least for introverts, introverts and extroverts. Absolutely, yeah. So high sensitivity and that's a great question. I think it can manifest in different ways, but all I'll give an example of the ways that manifest for me. I love socializing with friends like I did last night. However, I have to be careful as to how much I do that because I know I'll pay for it the next day and I used to think that that was just an introvert thing and to an extent it is, but actually being highly sensitive, we kind of feel it a lot more.

Another example listening to a song watching a film. we can kind of feel the arts more deeply than the average person. My mom is highly sensitive and she avoids horror films because it really creates quite a she doesn't just get scared. It creates quite a visceral reaction in her which she doesn't find pleasant. I can really I can definitely relate to that. Yeah. I don't like horror films absolutely avoid them like the plague. And I wonder if you can relate to this anything, you know in a film like poignant moments or upsetting moments, she quite readily will let the tears flow. Like she'll really feel what the character in the movie is going through. And again there's not there's not absolute rules and I'd encourage anyone who thinks they might be highly sensitive or wants to know more about this to go to H. S. Person dot com Hs person dot com. That's it. Yeah because there's a little test there dr Elaine Aron who's highly sensitive herself and she's done like lots of scientific research around this she described I think yeah yeah there's basically a self test you can do and it's everything from some of the things you know I've kind of mentioned through to when you were a child where you've seen a sensitive or shy, did you make a point of avoiding violent movies and shows are you sensitive to bright lights or smells or and again you just some of these things which I just again I kind of knew they were there, but it wasn't until I saw these questions and I did this test that I realized, oh my gosh!

And as soon as as soon as I came out the test as highly sensitive. Um it's been a process since then of kind of realizing and acknowledging and kind of leading into that sensitivity more like I I notice and I'm a lot more in tuned with the sensitivity now that I've been given the diagnosis, if you like, for want of a better word. Yes, it's interesting that you say that because I never thought of myself as a highly sensitive until recent years and I've always, but but I never realized, I always have had a sensitivity to light and I've had a sensitivity to loud noises and loud music. I can't, I just, you know, I can't be around loud loud music, horror films, I don't like I I feel others emotions and pain, but I wouldn't necessarily say I'm extremely highly sensitive, but those are the things that I've noticed about myself and I can't even believe I missed out that last one.

That's a huge one, empathy and feeling others, joys, sorrows, pains and just somehow without being able to logically describe it just having an understanding there. And it's interesting you say you didn't realize you were highly sensitive or you know, some people say particularly sensitive because I guess what happens is we become used to our own realities. So because it becomes the norm for us from when we're Children, we don't realize that we are sensitive. We just think, oh this this this is it, this is what it must be like for everyone. Where it's actually no, no that's that's not the case. I love the way you phrase that we come used to our own reality. That's so true. Because we don't we don't always recognize that there's there's of really what is happening until it's brought to our attention basically. Absolutely. Yeah. That's really nicely put. Yeah. So this is this is a really interesting topic because I wanted to, one thing I want to touch on is I know you've done some research recently on I.

N. F. P. S. And a particular group that you've been in. You did a research study which was a really kind of interesting results that came through that. Do you want to share that? Yeah, sure. It's funny. I'm just really curious about I guess these topics introversion, high sensitivity. And I'm just really curious about trends that's probably the you know, the intuitive in me, I just like feeling out trends and noticing patterns and this sort of thing. There's a there's a group on on facebook called highly sensitive Refuge and there's a it's the facebook group for the blog. So there's a couple of great blogs which are both run by a lady called gen grand man, one of them is introvert deer and the other one is highly sensitive refuge. And I've had, I had a hunch that a lot of I N. F. J. S and I N. F. P. S. And I guess intuitive who have that N. F bit in the middle and we're talking about Myers Briggs types for, for those that are wondering what all these four letter acronyms are.

I had a feeling that a lot of us would be highly were highly sensitive and all at least more sensitive than average sensitive people. So I posed the question in this group in this highly sensitive group, highly sensitive refuge. And I just said curious to know what everyone's Myers Briggs types are. Oh my gosh, just the responses came flooding in. I think they were, I just saw there were there were there I saw the trends there and then I thought, oh my gosh, I should have done a chart. So I ended up creating a couple of posts and I collated them. I think I had about, I want to say 450 results. That's pretty good. Which isn't, isn't bad. I think, yeah, like I said, it's it's quite an engaged group and Myers Briggs, I think a lot of people are into that and you know what type they are like to share. And I was incredible. I think there were, what was it four and five were either I N. F. P. S. Or I N. F. J. S. And not only is that remarkable because those are just two types out of the 16 types, but they're also meant to be a couple of the rarest types.

They say that I. N. F. Js are the rarest types. And just to see us represented us I. N. F. Types in such large numbers. I mean I thought there'd be a few of us but I wasn't aware just how many of us there would be. So that was really really, really yeah I was I was blown away. Yeah. I was I was quite surprised that your results as well because I'm an I. N. F. P. As well. And so you and I kind of share the same four letters. We know exactly what that what what we've had to deal with in life. And it is interesting because you find that many more people that are ari's, you know, E. N. T. J. S and E. S. T. J. S and whatnot. And um there's a lot to be said for the I. N. F. P. S. And I never thought that there would be that as many. And those are their highly sensitive as well. Absolutely. Yeah. No I was just amazed at just how many of those, how many of those who were? I must say obviously it's important to note that this wasn't a scientific tests because even though it's likely that there's nothing to say that all of those people who answered were highly sensitive, they might have a spouse or a friend etcetera etcetera.

And then there's also things like I. N. F. P. S. Or I. N. F. J. Just more likely to hang out in facebook groups for example. So so it's not scientific as such. But I mean the results were still pretty pretty compelling so I found it super interesting. Yeah. So I'm I'm curious um being an I. N. F. P. Yourself and I know a lot of the challenges that I've had, you know, over the years, but I think it would be pretty interesting for you to share you know, a story or two around when you first became more aware of your sensitivities and your your introversion. Um if there were particular challenges associated with that in you know, just mainstream life as you were growing up. Sure. I think, yeah, that's a great question. And I always I struggle a little bit because because I don't really have any standout moments as such more. It's more that just I immediately think back to like my teen years when I just felt really different.

Like I was I was into different stuff. I guess I was quite artistic and creative and that's not necessarily a highly sensitive thing. But I know a lot of us do quite like to have a creative outlet of some kind. I really loved like animated stuff and cartoons. I loved stories. I think I just loved, I really enjoyed stuff that my soul connected with and I think because I'm a sensitive person, that's why I sort out those things. I'm almost glad that I wasn't aware of my introversion slash sensitivity for most of my time in the city because I think had I have known that well, I guess, you know, everything is what it is, but I think if I'd have been in that environment knowing I was sensitive and being so aware of it, I would have been like, oh my goodness, whereas I think I just kind of, because my head was buried in the sand, I just got on with it and was able to cope in that way, but oh no, there were absolutely challenges of being a sensitive introvert in an open plan office in a sales role.

Um and now looking back, it was just, I was just, it was, it was exhausting and I think this is another trait I feel of, of highly sense of highly sensitive, whether you're an introvert or an extrovert or wherever you are on that scale, it doesn't necessarily mean, you know, you don't enjoy and find kind of conversations nourishing whether that's in, you know, with friends, family, colleagues, clients, whoever it might be, but I almost felt like I almost get like a buzzy hi when I speak to people, like, again, I think it's something about the energy there that I absorbed and what have you and I think I constantly had this like a buzzy high from start to finish off my day and that might go, that might explain why I was so tired at the end of each day. It might explain why at the end of each week, just inexplicably I would just, you know, probably go out and have one too many drinks just to, I don't know if that was a way of trying to desensitize yourself maybe. I think, yeah, I think that's your, yeah, I was, I was, I was looking forward and I think that's it.

Yeah, and weekends were just a write off in terms of just a lot of sleeping a lot of lying in, not having a lot of energy to do stuff I'd go to the gym. I love and I still do like just sitting in the sauna at the spa, like that heat on my body is just so nourishing that the work that you were doing, you know, the sales role and some of the other things just really weren't fulfilling you. When was this? Aha moment that you needed to get out of that and what triggered it and how did you muster the courage to make some changes in your life? Sure I always kind of knew recruitment wasn't it because I actually dropped out of university a couple of times. I came from quite like a good school, good grades and the expectations were always to go to university and yeah, I didn't know what I wanted to do, so you know there was an element of, you keep chopping and changing jazz, you kind of need to, you know this, this my parents were telling me and I kind of thought it myself, I was like you know, I just need to stick out something, but I always felt recruitment wasn't it, that the competition kept me in it for longer than I might have been in it otherwise, but I think there was just a growing sense throughout that time that I knew it wasn't it?

And I think the ah ha moment if you can call it, that happened when I've had a really quote unquote good year in recruitment, it's I was lucky in that I worked for a small firm and it was a really nice environment to work in, so I knew that if I didn't want to do recruitment there wouldn't want to do it anywhere else. But I had lovely colleagues but I kind of did quite well in terms of what my billings, my earnings, it's you know how well that's how you're kind of measured if you like, and I shared the accolade of employee of the year at the christmas party and I just remember yeah and I remember thinking, oh yeah, great and I've got this accolade and I just, I can still picture it like everyone else around me is like you know like you do have christmas parties, drinking, having a good time enjoying the music and I'm sat there thinking I've just got employee of the year, I've just had a fantastic year, why am I not happier? And then after that a couple of things happened, that kind of, I didn't really ever go that field again, I think that's kind of when I really knew, but a couple of things happened after that which confirmed it, a that feeling didn't go away b after its recruitment is all about pipeline.

You know, the more people, you got interviews and the more that could drop, it's all the numbers going. My pipeline went from being the biggest, I could have the biggest quarter ever in the following year to everything collapsing and like nothing coming through and it was almost like that was one sign of me thinking, you know what, maybe the universe kind of is really trying to push me one way and the second is I had a, we had a family holiday we went to, I think it was a week we had in Barbados in february of that year and this was when I kind of started doing headspace meditation and I just remember like once I was away from the business, the hectic Nous and I could just let things settle on the beach each day on holiday kind of unwinding from work and that feeling just getting stronger and headspace and it was almost like I was I came back from that holiday knowing I need to make a change, I have to do it now, like enough is enough. And that's when I started looking at other options.

And positive psychology was something that I've got I've grown increasingly interesting in um and I ended up resigning from my job and I think it was May pretty much today I had an offer to do this course. Mhm. So what advice would you give to others who are kind of going through similar things? Because you know, I I struggled with that for a number of years and I actually left corporate and went out on my own to do some consulting. But then I went back into corporate and I was in it for a long time and I struggled with, I had trouble letting go. I knew it wasn't right for me but I really had trouble letting go. How can you help others? Yeah, learn to let go of or if it's the right thing for them to do or know what to do that that's a that's a great question. And you know what we've become so used to even if it's not necessarily good for us, it's what we know and so anything different is frightening.

And I'll be honest, I was I didn't know even though yes, I was doing this masters for you. I didn't know where I'd end up. I had no plan, all these things that you're supposed to have and the others around you kind of encourage you to have and it doesn't always serve as well. one thing that really helped me is surrounding myself really, it sounds cliche but surrounding myself with others who are like minded and going through the same thing and I was really lucky in that in the city I stumbled across and this was in again the weeks and the months building up to me leaving my job and you know, actually, even before the whole christmas party thing happened, there's an organization called escape the city and they'd meet right in the heart of London amongst all the banks and all the financial institutions. It would be a bunch of mostly management consultants and lawyers and just other city folks who really wanted to um Mhm wanted something different like they didn't know what, but it was like they were just unfulfilled in the, in these, in their, in their city jobs and I ended up doing a course with the scale of the city.

We met once a week and you know, there was a lot of kind of reflective stuff that kind of helps you uncover what you want to do. But the most powerful thing about that course was surrounding myself with like minded others physically and the great thing is wherever you are in the world, you've got access to these places escaped the cities in London, they also got a jobs board and they do things jobs board and they hire, they advertise jobs around the world, but as far as the whole career changes thing goes, there's another organization which is very similar, which I think started just before escaping the city. It's called Live Your Legend, Live your Legend, love that, Live your legend dot net and oh my word, I remember coming across Libya legend and the founder and listening to his staff and I was just so I so connected with that and it, it felt like an important part of my journey with regards to moving me forward because he so spoke to me and everything he was talking about in terms of feeling unfulfilled and planning on making because a lot of the, a lot of these feelings are feelings and they don't feel tangible and there aren't necessarily answers there, but you figure them out.

And unfortunately Scott Dinsmore, who is the founder, he tragically passed away quite young whilst climbing Kilimanjaro, but I encourage anyone who's kind of maybe not happy in in the job that they're doing to watch his ted talk talk or Ted x talk, we'll look for it and I think it's one of the most successful ones like ever. It's really, really powerful. I can't remember what it's called, but it's scott Dinsmore and it's his ted talk and like I say, it's a lonely, lonely journey and doing it in some way, whether it's physically in person or even, you know, with the internet, it's amazing just how connected you can feel with communities online, live your legend, have an online community and there's probably others out there. So I would really encourage anyone to um, to perhaps explore, explore that because it, that's what I did, and I'm not sure I would have taken the steps I did had it not been for escape the city and live your legend, that that's um, um, an excellent way of putting it, that, you know, that that's really what people need is they need to surround themselves with people who are supportive, going through the same things, who have walked the path before.

And it's great to hear also that scott didn't s'mores community is continuing his work, um, which is great, it is, and it carries on, and Chelsea Chelsea Densmore is now carrying on scott's great work. She was also part, she was also involved when, uh, when live Your legend started and she continues to kind of move the battery forward and she's and she's doing a fabulous job. I was actually fortunate enough to, to see her speak at World domination Summit in Portland a couple of years ago, which was really amazing. But yeah, just that whole, surrounding yourself with like minded others. It just, it changes your perception and your reality and your feeling of what's possible because all of a sudden you're no longer alone and the energy that the others around you carry with them. Um you can all use that to move forward on your own journeys.

I think that's some great advice. And just for all of you listeners out there will put in the show notes references um to the um sites and the organizations that jazz has mentioned here so that you can um source them as well and see if it's something that will help you. Let's shift gears just a little bit. Um and fast forward a bit now to where you are today. And one of the things that in your bio that really stood out is that you've been running various blogs basically, particularly in the I. N. F. Kind of category. So why don't we talk a little bit about your current endeavors, what you're involved in right now and what you hope to accomplish? Yeah, sure. Um yeah, around that time that I left the city I just started documenting my thoughts and I kind of discovered I was an introvert and that was quite a meaningful realization for me to have.

So I think I'm on my fourth or fifth blog for introverts initially. But yes, and and I guess even now to an extent I kind of selfishly kind of right for myself because writing is a really important outlet for me in terms of my self expression and I also write poetry and I write fiction and I journal every day. So I do a lot of writing. But yeah, I think the first form of writing that I That I that I did really as an adult was blogging in 2015. And I think what I like so much about it apart from, I guess the rioting and sharing things that are important to me and kind of making realizations about myself along the way as I write and keeping myself accountable is the like minded people I've met along the way and who I've created opportunities connected to connect with others just like me by putting my writing out there. And that's something I'm realizing more and more in terms of my why when it comes to writing and the blogs and you know, I don't know, you know, we we met carol through through fizzle and that's obviously for those who are with online online business related endeavors, I'd like to think that at some point and may well, yeah, maybe this will be, maybe this will be uh something which make some money, but at the same time, I would almost be kind of okay if that wasn't the case just because I get so much from it in terms of, you know, the self expression and connecting with others and actually just saying that that's just saying that out loud as is you made me realize that like, I'd actually be I'd actually be okay if it didn't become something business related.

So yeah, that that covers my I guess the blogging side of things and the current blog I cover is it's kind of slowly gone from introversion to more the sensitivity because the sensitivity element feels just kind of more not that hard to define myself with labels but I almost feel like I am who I am. My sensitivity is like a bigger factor in my life than my introversion and you can relate to it so easily and you want to help others. This is it. And I feel so compelled to share my journey as I progress and to really and especially something about sensitive men, they don't seem to be. Um I mean I know they exist because I am one and I've met there don't seem to be as many of them and I think that's different factors I think they might be in the closet. I don't think I could have put it better myself and I think I probably was for a good while and it took me it took me a time to kind of prise that door open and kind of gently tentatively come out of that closet.

Well exactly who wants to admit that they're highly sensitive. I mean really what kind of, you know, connotation doesn't have right that that, that is not that I was going to say that is not the coolest thing for dudes to have, especially in generations gone, but like I said that there's a bit of a shift, I mean I'm biased however I do? I do think, Yeah, absolutely. Like my, my sensitivity with it I think comes my, my creative expression and my artistic kind of stuff that I'm involved with. I don't, I wouldn't think, I don't think I'd be the writer I am without my sensitivity, I wouldn't be able to connect and relate to people. I wouldn't be able to derive joy from music. I listen to in films I watch and all of these things. Just a case of acknowledging it and managing it in the right way. Exactly, yeah, this is um, I think this is a great conversation. We could probably go on and on and on and there's, but for all of you listeners out there, if you do have any inkling that you are highly sensitive, there is nothing wrong with it.

In fact, I think it's a, it's a plus in today's world and you know, take advantage of it, right? Oh absolutely. It is, there are such beautiful gifts that come with high sensitivity. Um Oh yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't change myself. There's one other. Um, and that's good because I wouldn't either. Um even though, you know, I've just kind of in recent years become more aware of my sensitivities and my empathy. One thing I wanted to ask you, you're, you're writing a book, let's share a little bit about the book and what what you hope to accomplish with with the book and do you have a title? Do you even have a working title yet? Yeah, I do the books called What happened to Scott Andrews with a question mark at the end I remember Yeah, it's funny as a kid, I just enjoyed writing creative writing and I think english got a little bit dull when we started doing old texts and talking about grammar and this sort of stuff and being quote unquote quote quotation marks, academic, I was supposed to do, you know, the more kind of important, impressive subjects, the sciences and the mass, but I am and yeah, just especially as I've gotten more in touch with my writing, I've had this like yearning to and this was whilst I was in recruitment also actually to be fair to write a story, to write a novel, to write like a fiction novel and I'm just like, quite a whimsical person and I start things and I don't finish them.

And like, I remember as a kid, like I went however old I was Maybe I was just about in my teens or just before anyway, toy story two had come out And I started writing a script for toy story three really like story with characters and everything. And I was, yeah, I was quite young. So like looking back, I think that was always there just nuance and and and and and writing things which make people feel and get into a story like I do when I read or what stories every november, there's something called National Novel Writing Month where writers all around the world get together virtually. And also in person you've got meet ups all around the globe, like there's like a bunch of them in London and I even hosted my own last year, but I'd think The 1st 3 occasions I tried and failed, like I kind of went into november maybe lasted a few days or a week or two and then it just fizzled out. And I think what helped last november was that this was the first time I tried it when I didn't have an office job and now I've not got an office job.

Yee hoo hoo, I'm not saying I wouldn't ever go back to an office, but I um it's unlikely, or at least in like the traditional sense of like a night by monday divider job, but one of the great things for me as a sensitive introvert is my time and my energy, I can manage it and I've got space and especially when, you know, writing creative writing, you need kind of time, you need space. And so I hosted a couple of my own meetups and I just don't get me wrong november the first, I didn't have an idea, I had no idea what I was going to write about. So I'm they call, if you're, and like the, the writing world you're a planner or europe answer and if you're a planner you will logically plan out to the N degree if you're a panther, you literally just wing it and write by the seat of your pants so you're a panther. I am a pants sir. I'm not surprised because you said earlier that you know you kind of, you're kind of whimsical. I am whimsical, I do like that word as well. It makes me sound when I think of the word whimsical like just just like little man like pottering about and you know you he drops his briefcase and all his papers fly out and he's like trying to, it's just funny, it's just a funny word.

I really like using that word. I think it's interesting, I think it's a positive, I think whimsical to me is kind of like spontaneous and I think it really fits your personality and the fact that you have a lot of interests, a lot of things spark your interest. So it's you know you're pulled in different directions, right? So what do you choose, what do you focus on all the time? I would deep dive and I would get obsessed and then I'd be like nah and move on. But and and ah but one thing, one thing I will say though, you have been really focused on getting this book done because you're in the process of editing it now right? Yeah I am, I mean and that's that's really kind of you to say um yeah, I finished the book and then I took a break from it and then I edited it and then I took it out and then so the editing has been an on and off process. And another thing I've realized, and this is where resistance resistance sets in, because it's important to me, the closer you get to the end, the more resistance kind of yields its head.

And I kind of feel that's what's happening this coming november. I'm not doing well. The plan is to have the edit done because I actually want to get going on a second, a second draft of another completely different book. So yeah, I'm about feels like I've been saying this forever. I'm somewhere between the third and a half of the way through the edit and I just need to I just need to get it done. Yes, you do. What advice would you provide for others? Um for others? Yeah. Whether you're whether you're whimsical or not, whimsical, there's something about, especially the first time you do anything that the first, but it's quite a it's quite a feat if I may say so myself and I'm obviously not there quite yet, but National Novel writing month and again, we can share the link in the show notes, super amazing initiative. That's gathered pace. Even in the last kind of 5, 10 years, um super supportive again, community, right? Just like with the whole career thing community, you're all in it together, you're willing each other on your accountable to each other, you don't feel like because quite often, like, I feel like I'm a bit of the black sheep of the family, like, what's jazz up to?

He started another blog, has he or has he, when is he going to get a proper job again, or you know what I mean? Like, I just feel quite different and in a similar way. I don't yeah, maybe it's an introvert, I think I can be quite guarded, but even those really close to me, so it's quite nice to have this community of are the writers who are all, kind of, working towards the same goal and ultimately, without National Novel Writing Month, just like without Escaped the City, I might not have my journey might not have panned out like it did. I'd go so far as to say, I don't think I would have written this first draft without National Novel Writing Month, I might never have, I might never have done it. Well, we'll put that in the definitely in the show notes, because that I think that's some great advice. Again, it's finding something that supports you and holds you accountable and I know you're aware of some of these challenges of writing a book, because I know you've written your own. Yes. Yes. And I had to basically just carve out two weekends a month and just just close myself away in a room and just write my heart out and even if I didn't want to, I just had to do it, and that's how I did it.

But, you know, it's different for everybody. Some people have to go on a retreat. Oh, man. So yeah, this first draft. I mean, obviously, I I was I was just kind of sort of winging it the whole way through some of what was coming out just wasn't, but that's it. It was. And a friend of mine, Lauren, she's like, she's like an intuitive writing coach for like, I n f for like, you know, sensitive introverted type people. And she's written some great articles and she quite often talks about just get it out because that perfectionist, crazy thing inside you will just want to make a fully formed, lovely, articulate sentence story. No, no, no. Your first edit. Just get it out. That's what I had to do. Exactly. You know, you just you can't sit there and go back and analyze and reanalyze and, you know, go back over it, you just got to get it done and then, you know, get it out there and have somebody look at it and and move forward with it so well, I wish you all the best of success with the novel sounds fascinating and I can't wait for you to get it published or getting a little bit close here to wrapping up.

I have a few other things, I'd love to just kind of dive right into it. I can't believe I know um but we'll just kind of do a rapid fire here of a few things. But one of the things that was interesting in your bio is that you have spent time or at least that you've visited five continents, which of those continents is one of your more favorite continents or places on the earth? Oh, that's a fun question. Again, probably the two that I have not explored as much. So in South America I went to brazil, I was in rio for the World Cup so there was a lot of soccer that I was watching and not much else to explore that, but it was just the whole vibe and yeah, I want to go back to South America for sure. Cape Town and Safari in South Africa was also incredible. And then I'll be honest, I've been quite spoiled when it comes to travel. I'm really fortunate in that from a young age, like my parents, we used to go away kind of summer vacation and they gave me and my brother the sort of treats which they didn't experience when they were growing up.

So we've done lots of europe, I've been to the States four times. Yeah, lots left to explore and as you know, I've not been further east than India and so there's a lot of Asia and new Zealand is on my list. Ah so yeah, I've seen a lot but I want to see what well you're you're quite the, I was going to say you're quite the world traveler, but once you have seen a lot, you still want to see more. Yeah, and there's something about again, like going away and recharging and just, yeah, like mixing up the environment and, you know, talking to new people and new cultures and all that stuff. Yeah, nature, I love it all of it. Me too. Um I hear you do you have a favorite pastime? A favorite pastime aside from the stuff we talked about with writing. I mean, I think writing aside, I love playing and watching kind of sport or just like moving in general. So like I do yoga and I go to the gym and I love individual sports, like tennis, boxing and mixed martial arts weirdly as a really highly sensitive kid who used to like not be able to watch boxing.

I um and I've been asking myself this recently again, I think it's the sheer adrenaline and the feeling of the combat that I really get into. But yeah, sport, I love playing and watching sports. Well, jazz. I just want to thank you so much for being on the show. This has been so enlightening and um I just want to wish you all the best of success and you know, at some point in the future, I'd love to bring you back and see where you're at, especially after you published that book and you continue to work on the blog and the many other blogs and whatever new interests that you're exploring um will be great to to hear about. It's it's been a real pleasure um carol, not least because um you know, we're friends in real life. So this has been, this has been amazing and I'd love to come back and hopefully a will have completed that book because I've made myself accountable to you and countless other people and be hopefully at least some of what I'm doing right now, I'll still be doing and I won't have completely, you know, giving up everything I'm doing right now and started new stuff.

But no doubt life twists and turns. So yeah, that would be fun to see where I'm at further down the line. For sure. It does. Well, thanks so much. Stay with us just a bit longer before you go, we hope today's show helped to bring a bit more joy and happiness into your heart. We hope it inspired you to unleash your own inner power and rise up to your best and loving heart centered highest self. Just a few things before we go, we'd be so grateful if you'd leave us a review on Itunes because those reviews are so important to our show and we'd love for you to subscribe to our podcast and share the show with others. And finally let us know what tips and strategies you use to rise up to your highest self by reaching out to us at www. Hearts rise up dot com or email us at hello at Hart's rise up dot com. Well, that's it for now. Until next time. Keep rising up and may love, and happiness always be in your heart. Bye for now.

Okay. Mhm. All right. Mhm.