mm hmm. Thank you for tuning your heart's in for another episode of the Hearts Rise up podcast. I'm carol chapman, your host along with my co host and Siri and Concetta antonelli. We share our own personal experiences, tips and strategies along with powerful stories and compelling insights from guest interviews. We're here to inspire and empower your conscious evolution. Help you tap into your inner wisdom and rise to your heart centered higher self. Together we can rise to a higher level of consciousness, an elevated state of being and experience more love joy and freedom. Mm hmm. Welcome back to all of you. Heart center listeners. Thank you for joining us again for another episode of the Hearts Rise Up podcast where you will always find heart centered wisdom to inspire your conscious evolution.

I have an absolutely delightful guest today. Her name is Christine. Samuel Christine is founder coach and facilitator of inner work matters. She left her corporate career of 20 plus years to follow her heart path, permission is to be a living example and help others to become the fullest expression of who they are while navigating their path to transition with unwavering peace and clarity. She finds delight in sharing her ever growing understanding of living from the heart space. She lives in Toronto with her husband and two young kids. Christine. Welcome to the show. Hi carol. Thank you for having me here. I'm really happy to be able to speak with you today. Oh I just am excited and I love your energy and your heart based approach to life and work and I wanted to say I enjoyed your deep listening practice a few weeks ago.

That is, was quite an experience. And I think more and more people could really benefit from that practice and I hope that we get an opportunity to share a little bit about that practice today. It's one of many tools that you have right now. You have quite a personal story that I would love for you to share. You know, our life experiences always contribute to who we are and who we are becoming and sometimes that can be helpful and sometimes not so helpful, especially as we develop patterns and habits and behaviors and sometimes limiting beliefs that no longer serve us. And it's important for us to recognize that And I know based on our previous conversation that you had the courage to step into the unknown with such curiosity at a turning point in your career and I to follow your heart's desires. So I would love for you to share your story because oftentimes we don't follow our heart's desires because we follow what others or the world perhaps has in store for us or wants for us.

So I would love for you to just share your story from an early age. Yeah, I'm quite a bit because I'm thinking where should I start from? How long do I have time or you know, time to speak about it? I grew up in Jakarta Indonesia and one of my favorite time I spent was to explore, you know the lane ways. I don't know if you've been into traveling to Southeast Asia. Yes, quite a bit because I lived and worked in Southeast Asia. I don't think we ever covered that. Maybe we did. We did. Yeah, I remember you work in Singapore. So the road is not as organizers here where it's like north, south, southeast or east west, it just meander around and what I love to do was just to walk through all the lane ways and then find out where I can go back home. So basically connecting the ones that I had never been before to what's familiar to me and I never knew that that become kind of ways I'm seeing things or I'm exploring thing is just to find out what is unexplored.

So when I was 16 I had a dream to live abroad. It just has to be abroad. I don't know why. So I've been working towards it to my dreams. And finally During 1998 where There was a big riot economics collapse within 1998 my parents was able to say, you know, you want to go, let's go. So with this luggage I flew to Toronto but I already prepare all the immigration works and and I apply for my permits and everything like that and I start my life from zero again because I never, ever left my family before. You know, just for a trip, but like never lived by myself through that shocking drastic change. Where suddenly I didn't have anyone any family here where I was the first six months in Toronto, I moved seven times where before that I moved two times in my life, I was like 20, at that time I have two questions who I am.

I have to really find out my real value. What is my value? What is what is me, Who am I? Because before I always knew it from my parents, my siblings, my friend and now I came to this place where the culture is different, the way people react is different and I have to find out what is the culture, what is the real human connection? I experienced so much uncertainty at the time there moment where I only had $3.23 in my bank account and a foot in my fridge. And you know, a friend of mine gave me a bicycle, the racing bike and I never by right a bike with a place that has streetcar track. So, a friend of mine told me be careful in the streetcar tracks, I didn't know what that means. So one day I was late going to work and then my wheel stuck into the track and I fell and I didn't have health insurance at that time.

So it was shocking, but make it short, I made it so I got a full time job, I start saving some money and I built up my career from scratch then I didn't realize that I had actually high functioning anxiety And when I found it it was in my early 30 I always feel nervous about things. I always felt that if I do something I might message that. So one day I was in a business trip in the States to lead a very important workshop and I was so nervous because this is the first, it was the first time I did it and for some reason I developed a lot of like rash in my body. It was so painful then because of nervousness, I thought I just can't afford going for a job. So I went for a job and when I came back I started writing a journal and then I realized the connection between why I was nervous all the time to my childhood trauma and I didn't know it was trauma.

I grew up left handed. I was I was born left handed, but during that time, not anymore. Now, you know, it's it's only different worlds, but it was impolite to speak or interact with other people, you know, shake other people hand with your left hand, you have to do it with your right hand. So what happened was I was about 345 years old and I have many cousins, relatives older than me. So they told me don't use your left hand, don't use your left hand, I got confused as four or five years old and like and I broke down plates, glasses because I just have to use the other hand and you know as a child, of course my cognition is limited. So I thought you know something wrong with me, there's something I hold gonna break. So I developed attention that I really have to be careful and make sure everything is right and I went through my career challenges, but then I get so tense in my muscles, stress, you know, stressing job and I developed autoimmune disease and that was my basically a wake up call, like something I gotta fix.

Like there's something wrong here. It's amazing what those experiences that we haven't particularly in early life and that if they continue to perpetuate how they can have a significant impact on us health wise, you know, mentally, emotionally and physically. So I can just imagine what you were experiencing but go ahead and share, share some more. So the idea is basically, I, instead of looking out, I start looking in what is this inner world means, what is my feelings, what is my body trying to do, what is my mind trying to do and through that kind of healing journey, I met my inner child, you know, the one who are always scared and afraid that she's going to mess things up and have a dialogue with her because I noticed like you know, there's nothing wrong with me. Actually, I am going through a lot of challenges. But I made it. So I have a talk with her and said, you know what I love you, let me handle everything now, you can relax.

So that was the first time where kind of into my healing journey where I kind of less anxious, less worry and be able to have a journey of accepting myself more and through also the autoimmunities I learned about food balance, about emotional balance and apply a lot of self care in my daily routines. So things are going well, then I met my husband and you know, kids went through my career then coffee, yep. Yeah, right. And so what happened with coffee it is, I always felt I need a certain thing, you know, I need a certain amount of money, I need certain amount of freedom. I need a certain amount of a lot of things basically. And through coffin, we cannot as you know, we can't really do much and we don't really need to go to restaurants every time. We don't really need to buy clothes.

That's right. It turned everything upside down in terms of how we had to reconfigure our lives and the things that we could do, we could no longer do and we had to find a new way of doing and being yeah, through that I've been wanting to make change in my life. I know I need to follow more of my passion and my purpose, but I had no guts to do that because it's nice to have paychecks. Yes, I know the feeling. Yeah, it's it's hard not to, so I was not there, but the universe kind of forced me into no, this is your time is up, You need to do something else. So things are happening at the end of, you know, coffee, it also my career that really help me too focus and not exactly without doubt what I want to do because you know, I think my my life experience taught me how painful it is to worry to doubt ourselves to fit in, to feel powerless to feel disconnected to be in the world of dominance, where we have to fit in to be successful, then there's a point where I said, you know what, I have enough of this.

If it's not now when and through coffee, I know you know, if I can deal with uncertainty a little bit more then I can kind of okay too, take a little bit more of uncertainty. So at that moment I decided before I I thought like you know what, I'm going to try six months, something different if I if not now when And I went through six months and I thought, you know what, I don't want to go back, this is so good, this is so fulfilling, this is so where I can be in my inner genius, this is where I can really serve others, not because of you know I have to be somebody else, I just have to be myself and moved from the expression of my being and all all my pain, all challenges that I have all the uncomfortable feeling that I have, it's kind of transmutes into this is maybe like cliche to really laugh force.

Like you know I have fear so much fear of course of going to uncertainty but that fear is often come by, you know there's something bigger, something better that I have experienced myself because I let it let go everything in a way that others can experience the same thing. I have no idea this is like very powerful actions, inspired action that I never I thought I could done before because before right, always have doubts. Oh maybe it doesn't work, you know who I am, that's the ego. Yes, just protect trying to protect us, you know, is is really what it's all about and it's I think the first, the the hardest step is the first step, it's always the hardest step. But once you take one step and then you take another step and then you keep going and you found yourself at the end of that six months that you were in a good space, you knew that you could do it and if you know the more steps you take the more courage that we muster up within us.

So at that point, you knew that there was no going back, no turning back. So what happened at that point? How did things shift for you? So the reason why I know it's possible because I've been through, you know that $3.25 I've been through, this is like this is what I want, I want to go abroad, that's right. And there is no, like at that moment, you know the first year I was in Canada, it was tough, but I knew there's no turning back, there is no failure. I cannot fail and go home. I have to keep moving forward. So really you have already faced fear faced your, your biggest fears at that point in time and you really were thrust into a situation where you had no choice but to move through it and cycle through it and move to the next level in your life. Yeah. It's interesting though because looking back now, I just felt, oh, this, I was so young and so naive.

Sometimes it's better when we're doing things when we're younger and we're naive because then we don't talk ourselves out of it Tony. I also want to share why I don't talk out of it. It was difficult because I have a choice to I have 20 years of career so I can look for jobs that I want, but I kind of tired of feeding in. So what I, what happened was in the beginning at the same time. Again, nothing is coincidence. I stumble upon a word and then through people that in the co creation space, the word that is, become my philosophy for until now is called D C O D D I W O M P L E Cody. I never knew about that before. It's an english slang, which means to move purposefully towards an as yet unknown destination.

So, I thought, wow, that's totally perfect because I had no idea. You know, I have, I have some idea, but it's very fake of what I want to do, but I can move purposefully one step at a time. That's not a big deal for me. I can commit to that. I cannot commit of like, yo I got to be this or that I'm going to make this much, But I can commit to one step at a time. And what happened during that time, also I do an experiment with this work because, you know, I've done things and it works in my professional job, right? And consulting's and my background is too so experienced is you find discovered problems and then find a solution. So you have to start with a problem, find solutions. And there's always like this proven methodology that you do with your work and that's how you sell it to other company. We solve this problem with this. This is the steps and they buy because they know the steps, but life doesn't have those steps.

That's right, It's not a lab, right? It's not this one project, it's just so interconnected with other stuff. So I knew and I try to use those steps, you know, find out what strategy I feel because I get afraid of, Oh, is that the right steps to do, What do I do the right thing. So I knew when I left my job and do this heart space or hard path, I cannot use that strategy anymore. It has to be totally new. That doesn't that unknown. So what I said for myself was Alguna do with one restriction, meaning like when you want to be creative, creativity happens when there's constraint, you know, when this constraint you become creative to solve, you know, to get a different way. So my constraint instead of like constraint is financial constraints problem. My constraint is I got to do this with joy.

Joy has to be there no matter what I love that. Absolutely. You have to feel that that joy is what really kind of moves you forward and keeps you going. If you're not following your joy or doing things that bring you joy, there's going to be lots of resistance and there's going to be a lot of anxiety, a lot of worry. That's amazing. I think that's an amazing revelation. Yeah. And this is the thing, right? When I follow Joy, what I have to do, I have to get up from my head from my thinking because when I Joy is feeling in the body, joys and experience. So joy is not a concept, it's it's it's a being. So I have to get out from my head and get more into my heart to feel to sense. And I think that's how I kind of lean towards. Oh there is another space beside the head, there is some more spacious.

So what I've been doing was I unlearned, this is my process of unlearning, not learning or applying because what I knew what is the right way, that feels good, not the right way, is it the right way or wrong way in terms of intellectual, you know, measuring it, but if it feels good, does it give me more energy? Right for example? Oh maybe I do this, you know, and then I start women in transition meet up groups within a year. There are Right now until now it's like 466 people and I start doing this or maybe I can do this talk, Maybe I do this group quoting session, I did it and I didn't think about what if it's failed because it just feels good, so write it down, you know like to kind of set it out and be in the process because when I'm in the process and allowing not knowing and I get this sense of ah meaning that it's a nice surprise, Suddenly I set up like this sentence, wow, I never knew where it comes from it Read or it sounds so good.

So I start getting this excitement and fun with going into not knowing, let's say I do a talk, I already know this is my theme, I already know a little bit more about the structure, but I don't know what to fill in and then allow that, deliberately not to know what to say every single sentence, so that in the moment I'm co creating with what wants to emerge and when you start playing with that, when you, that has to come from the trust, right? Because I think my trust come also from the joy it comes, it's just so much more fun to be in this space to create not because oh is it going to be good or not? It's more like I'm creating this because it's fun and it's really aligned with my purpose and you're allowing yourself to tap into your inner wisdom and allow that to shine through as opposed to having the ego fill in all the details because the, you know, the ego wants to, you know, control and protect, but when you get out of that, that space, the headspace and into the heart space and just trust what you're doing in the moment, I found the same thing for me when I used to do quite a few facilitation and speaking engagements and I found that if I got out of my head I was in my head.

Oh my gosh, I would mess up left and right. But if I could just get out of my head and just allow the wisdom to just come through in the moment, I did much better and I had much better success stories with my facilitation zoos and my speaking engagements and there's really a lot to be said for that. Things don't have to be preplanned. It's best to just be in the moment. I'd love for you to share a little bit more about heart space. It's a beautiful term and words are so important. We drive meaning from words. I'd love for you to share more on that. And the work that you do with the heart space. So this is my own experience. And also coaching others listening to others. What's been happening is the only thing that prevent us to get to where one to go to be fully ourselves to go through all challenges is that we I don't know how to deal with our feelings.

And then because we don't, you know, there's bad feeling. And then we stuck into trying to solve that feeling instead of moving forward. We don't like feeling uncomfortable. And then we use our heads Two get rid of those feelings which just doesn't work. So we end up being stuck in these official cycles of feeling bad. Trying to very rough feeling feeling bad again. Trying to get the raw feelings without even moving forward. Mm hmm. What I found about this heart space is when we will allow ourselves to give a space of not knowing. You know? Because our head is always wanting to know are all when we rely on our head. We always get to the history of what we know. So what we create, we create. We create paths in the future because we rely on what we know we're just coming from the history and then in ourselves there's so many parts you know, there's part of me that wanting to be in control.

It's part of me that want want freedoms. So how can we deal with we're not just this one single feeling or aspects. We have so many layers. And can we have this peaceful relationship even within ourselves with our good feeling bad feeling. What we call good or bad. Forever with our shadow and light. And there is of space which is not in the head because head is very small and rigid. There should be something else which closer to our body which is our heart. So for me are the heart. Space is a gentle holding space where all feelings, thoughts and sensation are welcome. It is the space where we can have a loving relationship with our complexity and contradiction. And in that space there's no pulling or pushing just Yes, this space is very powerful because it has that gentle holding.

You know the head has to be no right bad. This has gentle holding that can sustain or suspend the judgment so that a different kind of intelligence and clarity can emerge because we have in the wisdom unique well being imagine elastic. So what we did is we try to push the elastic until it's very tense, like expanded attention with our hands to control it and we said oh this is so tight, I want to fix it but were not allowed. We don't let go that we thought we have to control it. These elastics. And what happened was we kind of like going in and out in and out this like tension tension tension. But actually when we let go our hands to control that elastic, let's go back to normal. And when you don't expand elastics has become very gentle. That is our true nature.

It's just like that. And and were able to if we want to expand it because drama is cool. You know, we watch movie because there's drama and we did it to ourselves. You know, once in a while we we think about bad it is or how good it is, it's totally fine. But then we return to that that state. Indeed that's our natural state. Yes. Yes. And as long as we usually we like when it's not there like oh no it's gone. I have to take it. Where is it? I don't have to get it. But it's actually the thinking that gets in the way of it. Alright. It's always there. Well, we know it's always there. Even me. Sometimes I get into my drama myself in my thinking because it's fun. Uh and then, you know, and then okay. Oh I I got I got too far, that's enough enough drama, I'll return then I returned back and that's basically building a skill of returning. Yes, returning home because we all go out, go out, go out all the time.

And yes, I love that term returning home. Not everyone can do that. And this world today, how do you help others move from out of their head and be more in their heart space. What are some key steps or strategies are just tips too. Start listening and working with your heart space as opposed to the headspace. Yeah. Um I'm even still contemplating on these questions because I feel like I want to blah blah blah. You know, there's so many things, but it's really hard to put it down into simple words because word doesn't teach. Only experienced teach. So what I'm always trying to do is how can I in the presence of others. How can they feel that in me when I speak when I talk when I whatever when I my presence so that even though it's not intellectual, they start feeling it because this work is not about thinking.

We always think if we understand it intellectually and there's so many people understand intellectually what mindfulness is, what heart is. It doesn't work meaning that you don't touch it. You only concept you don't have the relationship in a way that is intimate where you feel the others or feel whatever it is. That the way you learn this is to touch it, to encounter it in a body felt and heartfelt experience, meaning that the simple step is to understand the nature of the mind, it's limited and not really relying too much on its information is not you, your mind is not you, it's just a tool. So thinking is one of the tools I always have this term. The mind cuts the heart connects. That's a beautiful term. Yeah. If you really want to cut things which is analyzed, find problem.

Use the mind because when you cut things you get into the tiny details of problem and it has a purpose. Yes, the mind does have a purpose. It does serve us in many ways in many ways where the heart can't. But the heart should always lead and the heart is much more expansive. And I love that the term you said it connects and I love what you were saying about you've got to feel it and that's one of the things that I have to say about this podcast is people when they listen to the podcast and they listen to the stories and the insights they feel it, it's not just ahead exercise, but they start they tap into the emotion within themselves that is connecting to the emotion that is within you and whatever you are sharing. Whatever you're sharing in terms of how you're feeling who you are and what you are and that's so important. It's important. Learning point for each of us is to pay more attention to whatever we're engaged in when we're connecting with others, really connecting with them and you cannot think through it.

You only can feel through it now. This is the thing about I want to bring it up about thinking because it's very important. Feeling has a bad rap in Western societies, you know, feeling romantic and feeling cannot be accountable. I don't mean of that. You know, we have emotions that we kind of enter used feelings with emotions. Feelings. Is is another way of sensing that might Mhm. What I meant is, you know, even like say you listen to me that you you kind of feel or sense something, maybe a sense of softness or if you talk to someone their sense of if you touch your skin or is it soft, is it hard? Is it the raft that kind of sensitivity that we need to develop? It's going to hurt us. But like feeling and sensing what is it right now? Right?

It's more than just the five senses because that's how we actually receive or transmit connection with one another, right? We feel I feel you feeling me. It's not like I agree with you, I agree with your opinion. I agree with your you know, principle. You know, even when I talk like this you probably feel it it's different. But like when you, when you talk to me and I feel you feeling me, it's I see you seeing me is that the hard way of living and being in this world and when it comes from that place of Usaid expensive nous, then the mind can come down because otherwise it always feel it has to figure things out because otherwise we cannot really function. But when the heart is there feeling the connection the mind actually if you want to come down to mine be in your heart because when the heart leads the mind at ease and that's to come down to mine, it will then work together united with your heart.

So the mind, what we've been using these days in this era since 500 years is the mind is a tool for analysis 2 4. Remember to remember the past tool to collect information. There's a bigger bigger function of the mind. The mind is emergence tool, meaning that if you keep it calm and open, something will emerge. There's so much that we do. Sometimes we don't really have to plan because suddenly we know what to do. We thought we have to plan its feel we feel good. We we kind of do something but actually a lot of things we do, we just do it, especially with the way we talk right now, everything has come up. I don't have to think about it. I just, I just be in it and words come out. Can we upgrade our mind in a way instead of a tool to remember the past? A tool to collect information, a tool that is so open, a new wisdom or insight our ideas emerging.

Hmm Can we cultivate that environment from her heart to new future? That because when it feels seen, it feels accepted, it doesn't really think about what you're lacking this, you're lacking that it will come and when it's come, you know like when we are in joy when we are and feel freedom, we figure out things, we have ideas and what I like to fight everyone is just to bring that to upgrade that sense. Make them our mind more powerful by being and learning how to be in the heart space. That is just some wonderful insights And I think that if more people were to do that, I think people would be a lot more in their joyful space as opposed to an unjust joyful space. What advice do you have for others? Because I'm really curious, we all have our own view of what success looks like for us.

I think it would be helpful to know what does success look like for you now and what advice do you have for others to feel like they're being fulfilled and more successful in their lives Yeah, thank you for asking that because I, I felt I have a drastic way of seeing success right now, I don't see success as one day I will be this one day I will be there, I do have vision, I do have dreams that one day is very different, I don't know if you can feel me, but like I have a dream, I have a dream and my dream is bigger than my success. My dream is to create a world where everyone can fully show as the highest nature to show up fully themselves, because only that we can have a better world, so that's my dream, so my dream is bigger than my success, my success, you know, it would be nice and I'm, I'm starting course I'm making you know, a lot of ideas, it would be great if people response, it will be great if you know for example, I see growth, I don't call it business, but it's a life calling, I see growth in that, but for me, success is more about moment today right now, so success for me, not in 10 years in three months in one week it is now, am I tune in to what want to emerge in me and my tuning in to my heart because then everything that I do today is so much meaningful if I'm in it and I'm with it and what I do doesn't come from a place of fear or maybe I should do this because, you know, I'm afraid that if I'm not, I don't want to live like that anymore, so, so success for me is like, if I can live today as if I get to the the end is now, you know, the end where, you know, maybe my book is launched, there's more people in my courses and then I get email or response, like, Christina, thank you so much for, you know, things that you did, that that changed my life, you know, once in a while I got that, but I love getting that, but also be able to be open to that success, meaning that as long as I'm in tune with my dream and what I do today in alignment with who I am with the place, from a place of love, place of vision and mission and you know, once in a while my survival brain come up.

Yeah, but you know, you're not doing this yet, Those are those are just old habits and patterns, just kind of trying to surface and make their way to the surface for sure, but you know, better, that's just the mind playing tricks on you. I think that's wonderful advice and I think there's a lot to be said for living in the moment because the past is done and gone and what's in the future 25, 10 years from now, that's a destination and there's all sorts of possibilities as to what might happen. Everything we do today predicts what happens in our future. So we must live each and every day to the fullest. And b as I guess, as experiential as we possibly can with being in that moment and feeling alive in that moment, feeling our own essence, because that's what really matters the most.

It's not some destination or something that we have done in the past, but it's what we are feeling and living today. And I want to add on what you said carol. There's no past, there's no future. There's only eternal now. Tomorrow is now. That's right. It is. It is they're all one of the same because there is no such thing as the past of the future. There's only now. So it's better to be in the line one with now. Instead of worrying about the future. This is what we have. This is what we have right now and look at what you have created and what you're creating. Even in this moment, as we're having this conversation, it's beautiful. How can people find out more about you? I know you have a website, you've got social channels, you have meet up groups. Yeah. So people can find me on my website in our work matters dot com. I also have blogs and even my events are there to my story.

I also have to meet up groups that I'm I ran right now, one called women in transitions to help women, so they don't feel alone and I know there's a lot of overthinking and the unknown that we experiencing transitions. So those there and I used to do group coaching sessions and a talk once a month in that and beginning of last month I started a group called Deep listening practice circle. I did this last year with a close community. Again, I want to create an environment where people can feel that they are being seen and heard and how does it feel to be in that and how to respond to others in a way that you hear and listen from the depths of your being to them because that way it's creating this, oh, I can be myself, that's what I found about, you know, I do a talk but a lot of things that I do in my course or facilitation is experience, you experience how it feels to be in the moment you want to be.

So I had that as well and I start also thinking about this is again, this is coming very sensing because next week was the second session for deep listening that I opened up And there was already 70 think about 79 people sign up for that. So what I know I tap into the need of the world, we think this is what people need. So, I was planning to create because of that, seeing that feeling that, sensing it, I know it's what people's needs. So I'm Creating another more like close group where people can be practicing at a close community, the same amount of people like, you know, less than 12 or six weeks weekly. So stuff like that, that comes not all because I planted in three years or planet just like, Okay, what do I see right now? What do I feel where you want to go? Yeah, you can find me in websites in in meetups. I have instagram as well, Christine Samuel here and Youtube channel.

Okay, alright, we'll be sure to include all of that in our show notes and anything else. I think you've got a course as well that we're happy to share a link to your course. I have personally experienced your deep listening practices, very, very powerful practice. I think people really need a lot of people really need that very helpful and certainly right now in today's world, we're all in transition and many, many people, especially women, could benefit from your women in transition group as well. And I know your delivery style and how you engage people within these groups. I can attest to the fact that this is a very beautiful experience. So I will just put that out there to any of our listeners that this is a very powerful experience with the way that Christine facilitates these groups and so Christine. I just want to thank you for joining me today. This has been a wonderful discussion. I want to wish you the very best of success as you move forward with inner work matters and living moment to moment.

Thank you carol. It's my deep gratitude for finding space for me to speak and to be invited in your amazing space. Well, thank you again and I just want to thank all of our listeners out there. Thank you for all of your heart felt listening in. It's beautiful and we just want to say for now, we'll be back for another episode whenever that happens and at this time just keep rising up to your best and highest self, Bye for now. Yeah. Mhm Yeah, we hope today's show helped to bring a bit more joy and happiness into your heart. We hope it inspired you to unleash your inner power and rise up to your best and loving heart centered, highest self. We'd be grateful if you'd leave us a review on Itunes. Those reviews are important to spreading this valuable message. We'd love for you to subscribe to our podcast and share the show with others, visit hearts rise up dot com for heart centered courses, guided meditations and are popular notes from your higher self until next time.

Keep rising up and may all that. You love thrive