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How To Have Difficult Conversations About Diversity In The Workplace! | Lenora Billings-Harris & Tim Shurr

by Tim Shurr
December 23rd 2020
00:39:28
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In this episode, we are joined by a totally mesmerizing guest who is one of the country’s foremost experts on Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. Lenora Billings-Harri... More

Oftentimes when people hear the word diversity, they think ceo and affirmative action, they're just at that compliance level. And so I help people understand the business case for it. Although a number of people are doing it because they think it's the right thing to do, especially leaders, but they also want to know what's the business reason for doing it. Here's the question, what's going on inside the minds of top achievers that caused them to make extraordinary breakthroughs both personally and professionally. My name is tim Sure. And I invite you to join me as we take a deep dive into the unconscious mind and discover how to transform your biggest dreams into a reality. Welcome to the how to be mesmerizing podcast. Hey everybody welcome to how to be mesmerizing. It's tim Sure. And we have such a special guest with us today, Leonora Billings Harris is with us. Leonora, welcome to the show. Thank you so much tim for inviting me to be here. It's such a treat that you're here now. You are one of the country's foremost experts on diversity and equity and inclusion and helping companies to grow, especially in when it comes to their mindset around diversity.

I believe that diversity is power, right? And you have been helping people to have those sensitive conversations to really understand what it's all about. And in America we are having a lot of turbulent times, a lot of and I think that it's good because people are coming together and taking a stand and saying, hey, we need to be more collaborative, more loving, more respectful, appreciating our differences, but also really concentrating on our similarities. So tell me a little bit about the work that you're doing and what's happening currently when it comes to diversity and inclusion in the workplace. Yes, thank you. So, as a result of the murder of George Floyd in May, Ceos and others in the C suite have recognized how much they don't know, and many were so enraged by what they saw, they realized that they needed to look at diversity equity and inclusion in a whole different way.

So the unfortunate thing is that it took a death on tv to kind of wake people up. The positive is I am so inspired by the organizations I'm working with right now because they know that they don't know, at least they don't know at a deep enough level. And so what I have been very busy doing since May is of course delivering virtual workshops and virtual keynotes to help people get an awareness of not just D. I. As it relates to race, but just D. I. Period because oftentimes when people hear the word diversity, they think ceo and affirmative action, they're just at that compliance level. And so I help people understand the business case for it. Although a number of people are doing it because I think it's the right thing to do, especially leaders, but they also want to know what's the business reason for doing it. And so on the one hand I'm helping them see the business case, which is if you want to achieve all of these business goals that you have, expanding your market attracting and keeping the best talent, etcetera.

That having a diverse and inclusive workforce can make that happen. Diversity is the easy part. Inclusion is the harder part. And then the after providing that business case, then what my time has been filled with doing because of requests from the client is to help them understand how implicit or unconscious bias leaks into their decisions and causes them to sometimes make the wrong decision. All biases are bad, but they need to have an understanding of how biases work. So they can then uncover or disrupt those systems they have in their organizations that are barriers to attracting that best talent. And then lastly, so you need to have a conversation about things like racism, sexism, homophobia. How do you do that especially how do you do that as a leader or how do you do it when someone says or does something that just doesn't land well with you.

So that's what my time is still doing in addition to coaching and consulting with some clients. So that's outstanding. So let's break this down because there was three particular topics from what you said that questions perhaps that came to mind. So you said that diversity is easier inclusion is harder. What do you mean by that? Can you explain those terms? So that we're not assuming that everybody's on the same page because most of time we're not Especially a topic like this, right? So I like to break down the 30,000 ft terms that are in my space, which are in everybody's space, all that logo that we have a large jargon that we have. I like to break that down into something that's really easy to understand and remember. So diversity is simply who's on your team. So when you envision your team now, I don't just mean, what do they look like? Although that is a factor. But do you have people who look alike, act alike, have the same values, went to the same schools, lived in the same neighborhoods, etcetera.

If you have a team like that, you may get along really well. But you don't have enough diversity of thought and ultimately why leaders want to have more diversity and inclusion is to get that diversity of thought to help them not make mistakes that we constantly see in the media. So diversity is simply who's on the team. You look at your team. If it's not as diverse as you want, then, you know, you need to do some things different as it relates to sourcing, rewriting the job description and recruiting, not lowering standards, but being more mindful of the skills, talents and abilities you're actually looking for. So that's diversity. That would actually be kind of a racist thought anyway, that you would have to lower your standards to have more diversity. That's a poor belief. Unfortunately a lot of people think that and they think it because of when Ceo and affirmative action came along people assumed oh in order to hire these different people, you know, particularly african americans, black people, we've got to lower the standards when it was never about that, it was broadened your sourcing so that you can find that best talent.

So in any case so they have to deal with the biases they have even about what they think about diversity and then inclusion has been the missing piece for many years. And then even when organization started doing what they thought was inclusion ill defined it in a moment, they now realize that oh it's our implicit biases that are getting in the way of us being as inclusive, engaged as we thought because inclusion is who gets to play. So if you think of a sports team, I always like to use the photos from the fab five gymnastics team from the last olympics. So you know, we saw them constantly on tv. They were amazing. So that's diversity who's on the team. However If you would turn the clock back about 20 years and look at the US gymnastics team they would not look like those five women, those five women happen to be diverse but 20 years ago black and brown girls were told you can't be a gymnasts, you don't have the right body structure and then finally olympic, I don't know if it was us olympics in general or the coaches and the teachers, they finally recognized that that was a myth.

So they stopped saying that. So you had more girls and then women of all types who became extraordinarily good at gymnastics. So they got the best on their team, but that's not enough inclusion is who gets to play? So do you use your team members so that they are utilizing their best talents? Are you developing their best talents or as a leader? Do you keep going back to those who are comfortable to you, those who have done well in the past? So we're just going to go back to them again and you don't develop certain people what my academic research showed and certainly much other research out there is that best talent, specifically black and brown people will leave organizations because they feel they're not being developed. They don't have mentors like white folks do and they don't get usable feedback on their performance.

So diversities who's on the team inclusion is who gets to play and to figure out how you get that. Who gets to play is where you start identifying your bias behaviors and how you can change those beautiful answers. So now let's break down another definition, implicit bias. So you're hearing a lot of bias that you know the phrase bias in the not just in the workplace because we're seeing it a lot on the media and I don't think people even know what that is exactly general. Most people don't know the biases how to spell it well, you know, and so often people will say, oh, you know, that was a bias statement. They're racist. Well, you don't know a person's racist until you actually look at their behavior, which could be regular comments along the same lines, but just one comment doesn't make a person bias. So bias is made up of all of those thoughts that turn into beliefs and attitudes and mental associations. That's what biases very generally we have to have bias to exist.

So the moment we're born we our brains are sponges and it takes in all information so you have bias when that information comes into our brain and then it connects, you know, like minded like things want to connect with each other with our neurotransmitters and all of that so they connect and that helps us know what are we supposed to do in a flash in a moment? How when we don't have time to think about it and it's those biases, those mental associations that cause us to react quickly. So I say we need them in general because we don't have time to think through everything. So I just happened to hear a truck just now go by and if I were crossing the street, I don't have time to think about. Do I need to get out of the way I need to just do it really fast so our biases can help us do that. However, and it's very unconscious by the way. So once it goes into our brain enough of that information then this is happening unconsciously. We just respond.

However, when it comes to people and judging people, we judge people again based on what's already in our head experiences. We've already had comments, we've seen pictures we've seen. So for example in our country right now with social unrest and the protests and that type of thing. For example when you watch tv or you listen to the news, if you are not intentionally broadening your scope that is not intentionally looking at several channels, listening to podcasts. Getting information from a lot of different places. If you only are getting it from one place then you only have one view. So it is not surprising that in our country because of racist behavior that people would see a black man and automatically turns up and not just white people. I mean this could happen among black people. To people within a group can be biased about their own group, but in any case when they tense up that same fear, they're not going into their logical thinking more.

They're slow brain to say wait a minute, let me analyze this situation with this person. There's nothing happening that should cause me to be fearful. When we don't do that. Then we're reacting to those unconscious biases. So we need to become aware of those unconscious biases. And then of course we have conscious biases or explicit biases to kind of give you the whole framework and the explicit bias would be, for example, when I am delivering virtual workshops and keynotes, I almost always wear a black top because I usually I'm going to have my professional background and black shows up nicely against the blue background. And then the way to make it a little more interesting is I'll wear a necklace so that has some kind of interest to it. Well, I happen to like necklaces, but my point is that happens to be my bias.

So when I'm getting ready for a virtual presentation or when I was on the road and when I get back to being on the road, I still always wear a black top, usually with black pants, I can pack faster. I don't have to spend a whole lot of time figuring out how to put a whole wardrobe together. So that's kind of the reader's digest version of bias and we can become much better at disrupting our biased thoughts when we literally take a breath, don't sigh in a person's face, but take a breath so that we feed that oxygen to our slower brain that enables us to be more analytical of things in the moment. You know, there's different types of bias, right? And so it's the biases that we're aware of some of the stereotypes that we're aware of are on one, you know, I don't know in one category, the other category or the unconscious biases, the biases that we don't know.

Are there the biases the ideas that we absorbed growing up that are slow mind, as you call it, which I like that are slow. Mine are analytical mind would say I don't agree with that. I don't believe that I don't like that. Or where did that horrible thought come from? Right. But that pops up and people have to work on recognizing what they're unconscious biases are because it's influencing them without their awareness and that's often even more dangerous. So have you developed any tools or something that people can use to make the unconscious more conscious? I do. I happen to use not one that I developed, I do happen to use a diversity assessment. However, I think that your listeners might be interested in something that wouldn't even cost them anything and Harvard University and University of Virginia put together what is called the I-80, the implicit association test. So if you go to Google and just put I 80 Harvard, it will come up and they have collected in responses from millions of people.

So when you get the readout of what your results are, it's based on a lot of data on a lot of research now here's why I recommend that it's very short. You can't beat the test. And the important thing to remember though is it's telling you your unconscious association between two things. So when it first started it was just race. So you would take the test to get an idea of what's your implicit bias about black people versus white people. And usually you don't like the results because even when you're consciously attempting not to be biased because of all that information that's in your head, you can still be biased. So anyway, you take this test and it's the timing thing how fast you can push a couple of keys on your keyboard and now they not only have race, they have gender, they have LGBTQ plus they have muslim but I mean they have many many different categories that you can test yourself on.

The key to remember. However is that when you see your results it's not saying you're a racist or you're a bigot, it's simply giving you an awareness that you probably have more biased than you thought. And once you have that awareness, that's when you can start doing something about it because we can't fix what we don't know and when we do know we're at choice. So what I recommend is you go to the website, you take one test pick whichever one you want take one, don't take another one for at least two weeks. So it's totally out of your system if you want to get valid results and then decide what you want to do. I think that's really great. 20 something years ago when I was in grad school, I was taking classes on all the ISMs to try to get my head straightened out and I used to sit in there and and I would have all these ideas and I'm like, oh my goodness, it was just pouring out, you know, the sexist ideas and the jokes and stuff like that, that I didn't even know it was an issue because that's what I saw and heard growing up.

And after my first year of going through all those classes, I'm like, I would just start, hi my name's tim, I'm a non practicing racist Yes. Which makes great courage to say yeah. You know, because all these ideas were in my head and I didn't want them there, but they were there. And the point is that I was more aware that they were there so that if stuff comes up, you have a choice, right? What do I want to do with it? If it pops up instead of guilt and shame and everything else. Because then I went through a phase where I felt like I had to apologize for being white, You know? And then it was all these mixed, you know, and I think that a lot of people still struggle with that. Yeah, we're not sure where to be. And I'll have every once in a while, someone will send me an article and it says all lives matter and immediately know that they don't get it. You know, they're they've missed the point, right. And so when you're helping businesses to understand that when you have more pieces of the puzzle coming in instead of, I liked what you said about, it's not just the color of our skin, it's not just our race, it's not just our culture, it's where you live as well.

You know, if you have people that all live in the same vicinity and you don't have people with different ideas and different experiences, you have the same types of pieces of the puzzle. Exactly. And you need more pieces to be able to see a bigger vision of what you want. And so that's why I've always said diversity is power because if you only hang around with people that are just like you, yes, your brain will feel safe or comfortable, however you're missing out on huge opportunity. So, have you been able to show that with KPs? You know? Well, you know, people like their KPs in corporate America, interestingly enough, when I think of all of the various components of the parts of the puzzle where organizations need to do work to systemically create a more inclusive environment, developing those copies are always where organizations fall flat. They'll do everything else. It's like, oh, you mean we need to measure this. We need to actually measure our behavior. And when we can do this, it's like you first have to identify what behaviors All right, that you want and I can help you with that.

And then yes, you absolutely, you can measure it. Although going back to the earlier part of the question and how to help organizations recognize these things is I know that my clients come to me because I make things easy to understand I related to business and my style is not blame and shame. And I, you know, I've I've come to know that as I got better at recognizing as a professional speaker when people say they've already watched everything they could get their hands on video. So they've seen all my video out there and read my articles and that kind of thing. So they already are convinced I'm the right person now, we just need to work out the details I've learned to ask. And so how did you know that? What did you see? And frequently they will say what I just shared with you. So the point is is that I obviously share some research so that regardless of the audience that I'm with, there's gonna be some folks are going to say and how do you know this? And where's the research?

So for instance, even using the term slow brain slow brain and fast brain comes from Daniel can a man who was one who won a Nobel prize on his research, neuroscience research as it relates to bias and there's others out there. But slow brain fast brain is just an easy way to describe it. And so I will share with them the research around the business case for diversity. And then when we get to the bias pieces I share with them researched information that they're not likely to know that would make them go really. So for example, I share the research with them by just showing a slide that there was research done on hurricane names and it was discovered they didn't include Katrina and it was before Sandy. But what they discovered was that hurricanes that have male names are much are taken much more seriously than hurricanes with female names.

Why would that be because of our gender bias? Unconsciously? We assume men or males are more significant than females. And so it's not like people consciously sit around and say, well, you know, we'll ride this one out, you know, because the name is bertha. They don't think that they just act on it. They either act like, oh, you know, they're saying we ought to take cover. I guess we better we better do that when it's a male name less likely when it's a female name. So I share examples like that. And here's another one to give an example of just how fats we make decisions based on bias. I used to do this of course in person and I'd have people do this. So I would invite your listeners to actually do this, Shake hands with someone. Somebody you don't know really well. Shake hands with someone and then immediately think about the stories you just made up about that person because if you were born or raised in Western culture, you're expecting a firm handshake and for people to give you direct eye contact, right?

And when they don't do that, we immediately make up all these stories. They're not going to be a good leader, They must be hiding something. They're not confident, they're not going to be able to speak. We make up all the stuff, we don't know any of that about the person. All we know is they gave a week and shape and two thirds of people on the planet give weak handshakes and don't give eye contact intentionally because to do the latter is too aggressive. Now here's the thing, it's so important within our culture that very often if a person gets a weak handshake, they will tell you right away why, you know, like if they hurt their hair because it's that important, we know that we form first impressions and those impressions stay. However, if we're wanting to really be an inclusive leader, we learn to shake hands or not. I mean who knows when we'll get back to shaking hands again. But should we ever get there we learn right in that moment to catch those bias thoughts.

you can't get rid of them, but you can acknowledge them and kind of say thank you very much and get back to focusing on that person and then if you're interviewing that person or having a conversation, what you want to do is try to prove your bias is wrong. So if you think, oh this person is not very confident, asked the kinds of questions that would inform you about that person so that you can make a better decision. So shaking hands and things like hurricanes, other common kinds of things that people do I share with them. And then of course depending on the industry, like I do a reasonable amount of work in the medical industry with medical professionals I should say. And when I share within some of the biases that we know that doctors have for instance around obese people, the skinny or the doctor, the stronger the bias, negative bias towards obese people. They're surprised about that because you know, that's not their focus. So they don't, we can't assume that they know these things. It's everywhere. I mean there was a bias with extroverts and introverts that introverts can't be good leaders, They don't speak up right and how false that was.

And we had to have books written on it and courses shared, you know, just for that. So everybody has bias and you're right. Sometimes you can't get rid of it just like negative thoughts pop into your mind. Where did that come from? You know, I'm giving myself positive affirmations, I'm praying I'm close with God. And yet I have these fears that pop into my mind. So you don't get rid of it. You just learn how to as big Ziegler said, you can't get rid of the butterflies, You get you learn how to make them fly in formation. Yes, it's redirect them exactly. Because to your point earlier about sometimes, and I've heard this many times before, a white person feels like they have to apologize for being white. Well, you know, you didn't own slaves, you personally, and so we can't change the past, but we can reframe the future based on our current behavior. And it's a matter of do you want to do some things differently and in the speaker world, when I'm talking to speakers about this, it's you know, be mindful of the words you're using.

Some of those words are going to alienate part of your audience, some words as easy as you guys, you know, which is so embedded in american speaking. However, when you're speaking to a group of men and women, do you want to take the chance that they're going to be some women and frankly some men who are going to be offended the fifth time you said you guys, when it's everybody, you know, you will refrain that, you know, folks or you know, ladies and gentlemen could get you in trouble to you can't possibly know every word. But when you show that you have some thought about it, that you are, you are making an attempt to being inclusive. People notice that you're so right and sometimes they can. So we'll talk about that next. I think this will be a good segue into it because sometimes people are so concerned with being politically correct that they are not even sure what to say because you start analyzing every word. So just be more aware and intentional about the language that you use.

It was Patricia Fripp who told me that you can say ladies and gentlemen, but don't call women ladies, you know, their women right? Or professional women or I'll talk to a female actress and I'll say, should I call you an actress or an actor and just ask because everybody is going to have a different opinion Anyway, Right. So, so usually I just ask and say forgive me for being dumb or ignorant and just people appreciate the respect because you're asking and trying to learn wanting to understand. I was one of the biggest challenges. And in fact, in my sessions, I start out right away with the question of why is this so difficult To talk about diversity inclusion, racism, that kind of thing. People are so afraid. They're going and the answer always is there's there's five answers, but the most popular one is I'm so afraid. I'm going to say the wrong thing. And the fact of the matter is exactly to your point, be willing to ask questions and you're going to get it wrong sometimes. I mean I've been doing this work for 30 years and every now and then I open mouth and insert, but just because I'm human.

But when you realize you've made that mistake, when you see a person's body language changing on it, don't act as though it didn't happen and say, you know what, I feel like I just might have used the wrong term or said the wrong thing. Help me know, first of all, I apologize and help me know what would be a better thing to do in the future. So yeah, Ask people be vulnerable. That's when people connect to you and I love what you just said, you know, I apologize, that's just so powerful, right? Just saying, I apologize, you're not saying I'm a horrible human being, you're just saying I'm sorry that I had a lack of understanding, I apologize and that changes the dynamic. It opens conversation. We're supposed to be coming closer together and opening communication, not shutting it down. So just a quick I'm sorry, I remember I was it was a room full of of sales professionals and we were talking about customer service and how important it is and not just make a sale, but create a customer and create a relationship.

And then we were talking about instead of saying um you know, thank you, no problem. You know people here problem, no worries. People here worries, said thank you. Happy to serve. And there was a black gentleman in the audience and he raised his hand and he says, I feel really uncomfortable telling some of my customers I'm happy to serve and I was so proud of him. And it was so exciting in that moment to say I'm sorry that I didn't even realize that that would be offensive. That makes you know. And then I I asked him to explain it instead of assuming that I knew where he was coming from. So I'm learning as I get a little bit older here. Not to assume, but ask another question. These questions are so powerful, he explained it and then I it was a teaching moment for everybody. So then we gave a round of applause for having the courage to speak up and I just thought that was awesome. So and that's it is to be willing to lean into that discomfort and be willing to ask questions. And one other quick point about apologies because I see people doing it incorrectly so often and then they get ripped later for not apologizing correctly.

Does not say I apologize if I offended someone rather say I apologize. I know I offended some people mm see how different that is. Very different. I'm owning it. I know I maybe not everybody, but I know I offended some Not if you offended someone. If you're saying I apologize. You know, at some level you just did something that you think is wrong. Yeah, that's a very good point. Again, it's shifting the belief in the awareness and then having the right tools and people just don't have the tools. They just don't know what to say. So I love that you offered. You keep offering. Here's a tool, Here's a tool. You know, if you do this, do this instead, then people are like, oh my gosh, okay, great. Because I've said that before, I'm sorry if I offended you, right? As opposed to I'm sorry. You know, I'm sure I offended somebody.

I may have offended you. And I apologize. Can you help me know what's going on in your mind right now? And that is just instead of assuming that we know because we don't. So that's very powerful. So that's what and that's what we're talking about right now is why within your organization or within your team, you want to have diversity of thought because some when you have real diversity, then someone is going to be like the gentleman you just referred to, they're going to be willing, they'll feel safe enough to bring up, you know, this might not land very well. It could be a teaching moment for everyone and it happens before the organization makes a mistake. I just have so many examples of those that I use in presentations because not just the marketing mistakes but other mistakes that sometimes cause death because they didn't listen to that subordinate introverted voice that said, you know, I think there's a problem with the O rings or whatever it might be.

Yes, there was. I mean there's so many examples and and it's amazing sometimes how people can't see what's right in front of them, how they are so oblivious to what they're just saying after. You know, after the tragedies that were being made more public, right? Because these tragedies have been happening for a long time, but because everybody has a cell phone now and we can blast out, it's being seen by more and more people. And so I remember the police came out and I was going to write an article on it because it was so insanely offensive. They came up with some new term that they were going to use. There was a horrible term, you know, for what they were going to use to combat their racism. And I can't remember what it is. My brain probably forced me to forget it. I'm like you can't even, yeah, you can't even believe that somebody would do it again and not even notice it. You know, it was. And so I don't know it gets me riled up, which is good because that's the only way people are gonna make changes in this country is if we get riled up, I had a president that taught me, you know, I came from the cornfields in indiana.

So I didn't know anything about corporate America and I was with the company for six years and and the president, I was teaching him about human behavior and he was teaching me about how companies run and it was really amazing and and he said you have to be an active part of the solution or you are a part of the problem and that always stayed with me. So we have to stand up, we have to say something, we have to take a stand, we have to have each other's back. And because if if someone doesn't stand up for themselves in a situation in a meeting in a boardroom and you notice it and you don't say anything, you're part of the problem too. And the reality is very often that marginalized person, whoever it is in the boardroom and the team meeting, they're running through their head. What are all the risks if I speak up, especially if they are the only one, if they are the only woman or the only black person or the only asian person or whatever it is. So we all need to become more allies. So when we see something happening in the moment, you don't have to wait for your leader to do something, although it would be great if she did.

But you know if I see that tim you were starting to share an idea when somebody else cut you off and I'm appear in the meeting, I could say, excuse me, harry, I think tim was just about to share this great nugget tim can you finish? I can interrupt that other person because as we know, there are some people that interrupt all the time, that's just part of who they are, they're not intending to be rude. But when it comes to inclusion, intention is not enough because we can't read everybody's minds. Impact is what's important. So we have to slow down enough to think about when I do this, what is the impact it will have? And if we're willing to think through that and listen to feedback from other people, then all of us can be more likely to grow in the process. I love it. What is the impact if I do this? What is the impact of this? That I really love that a lot Now, you've put together an incredible list of news articles and sources of information.

So if people want to learn more and they want to empower themselves and expand their horizons, which everybody should do that right, then you put together a place for them to browse through the headlines, you've sifted through what you feel is really quality information and then put it in a place that they have many different points of view. If people go to the diversity advantage dot info. The diversity advantage dot info just scroll through there and there's a list of headlines and when something grabs your attention just looked through the article and there's all kinds of good stuff there. That's a wonderful resource for where people should go next. Right? And one quick thing that I've discovered, I'm not sure what just technology wise, why this happens when you put the diversity advantage dot info in your browser, do not type www. Just put that. I don't know why that makes a difference. Maybe with the dot info. But when you go there then you'll have way more than you can ever read. But you can just pick what you want. Whatever resonates for you. Yeah, that's probably affording issue.

So wherever the domain is hosted, just got to be forwarded with the W So there's so many little the technology. So yes, so don't include the ws and just have the diversity advantage dot info. And of course, leonora billings, Harris dot com will take you right to your website as well. Leonora has a lot of virtual trainings available and wealth of information that will help you to make your organization more successful in 2021 Leonora. Any remaining thoughts that you want to share with us today? Well, I just leave you with this thought, the word Xubuntu is a zulu proverb that I learned on one of my many trips to South africa. And for me it was a very broadening way of understanding why diversity and inclusion is so important in our communities and our organizations? Ubuntu means I am because we are we are because I am you go to my website, it'll be there and I leave you with that thought that And what is the word again?

You boon to U B U N T you by the way, If you google it, you will see the software that's called a boon to but it's freeware based on the same principle of what a boon to means that is beautiful, Leonora thank you so much for this has been a fantastic a mesmerizing conversation and I really appreciate you and all the work that you do. Thank you so much tim and I am very much admire the work you do not only with the podcast, but in your own professional work as well. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. All right everybody. Holy cow, Leonora, incredible, incredible. She has so many wonderful tools. You need to check out her website, make sure that you click all the links that are in the show notes and share this with your organization, this is a very powerful message that came with a set of tools and strategies that will help you to create more diversity and inclusion because not only will it make you a happier human being, it will also make your company more money.

So use these tools become and apply them in your life and make your day mesmerizing, We'll talk to you soon, everybody. Hey, it's tim. Are you ready to be inspired by the world's greatest motivational speakers? Witness history as the legends of business and personal growth share with you their best strategies for how to be profitable in our new economy. Go to Legends summit dot com, That's Legend Summit dot com. I'll see you there.

How To Have Difficult Conversations About Diversity In The Workplace! | Lenora Billings-Harris & Tim Shurr
How To Have Difficult Conversations About Diversity In The Workplace! | Lenora Billings-Harris & Tim Shurr
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