Welcome to the podcast. I'm Jackie Brahman, principal solicitor at T. B. A. Law and Ceo of legally wise women and as always I'm here with us stanic former corporate lawyer, then head of HR and now an emotional intelligence coach. Good morning, how are you morning Blackie? I'm good. That's good. We've just been having a really deep conversation before we jumped on recording. I was telling Wish that I am in a funk and it is close to burnout and she's telling me, I knew something's got to change. Mm hmm That sounds awful, right. But it's that whole control your bear now because you know, you've got the self awareness that it's happening, which is great. And I think you know it's been coming for a while. Yes, yes. And we were just talking through well what you know, there's got to be a breaking point in that pushes the change for the growth and you and I are both doing that in our businesses.
You know, we could cap ourselves at the point where we're at Yeah. With so much business and business growth and all the things and always be on a hamster wheel or we make the hard decision to push growth and take the short term hit for that. Absolutely. And it is isn't it starts saying that you know that next level of growth, it demands a different version of you and that's why I think what we're both experiencing where we're like, well, you know what the way we've been doing things has been working for the last few years. We have grown. We both have grown, you know, as people, as businesses and revenue. But then the concert point where we've got to stop and yet you do. It's that book, right Adam Markowitz book. I think I mentioned it before. It's called pivot and it's a case of he goes, it's like when you're playing basketball, you've got to stop on the court, you're holding the ball and you're pivoting, looking around to go, where do I go next?
And that is exactly what I had to do. You know about a month ago because it was time for money for me and I don't want to do that anymore. Mm hmm. And you're right. I'm, I'm now okay. Hold where I'm at just observe what the hell is happening at the moment, realize it's not working or sustainable. So what has to change. And I guess, you know, there's three or four main options and it's like, ah, so scary Because what if I make the wrong decision out of those, but it won't be, it won't be a wrong decision because I think with the decisions, we've just spoken about what they are, they're all going to lead you to growth. They're just different levels of discomfort. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. There isn't, there's not a bad decision in it. Bad decision is doing nothing. Yes. Yeah. So you just got to assess what level of discomfort you're willing to do to to move.
But I also think, you know, as we mentioned just before we hit a record that you can't pause and get and make the decision that you need to make if you're in the doing constantly, you just can't because your brain is not able to process. And you know, you were just saying, oh my God, you take two days off. You know, you'd have to move your clients and all that sort of stuff. But isn't your business worth two days, Isn't your health worth two days? It really is. You know, clients aren't going to know they're not going to know or whatever. The reason is that you've had to push them back a week. No, that's right. It's okay. And like I said, if you were sick then you'd have to do more than two days. So, mm hmm. I really think next week, look at your two busiest days and maybe if you got to come in on monday Tuesday, do that and juggle things and have Wednesday, thursday, friday off and don't go out, stay at home or like go out and in fresh air, but don't do anything or plan anything. And the answers will come as to what path you need to take.
Yeah, When you've got the space in your brain for your brain to be able to, you have that creative thought. And I think it will probably come quicker than you realize. And then you've got the other time to sort of rest, recuperate and map out that decision a little bit further. Mm hmm. Yes. All right. Wow. Gotta do it. Right. And this is the thing is it's all about a mindset shift. Like we've got to shift. We've gotta, we've gotta change our thinking for growth. Yeah. It's, it's that, that it's not even growth. It's like scale, isn't it? It's like you, we're scaling like it's like we've grown already, but we're now, how do we scale it and make it sustainable? That's right, leverage what we've done already. I think you said it before that you yeah, we have to change ourselves. Like we can't be the same person that we've been because that's the results we've had and now we have to step up as well, which is such an uncomfortable thing in some ways, particularly if you've got no structure or um, context around who you need to be and Yes.
Yeah. So, but again if if you had the blank time of a couple of days to work that out. Mm hmm. That's again, probably the space that you need to realize who you need to be as well. Yeah. And it's the sacrifices right? Like you've, you've made the sacrifice on time already. Yeah. So I asked myself, well, what other sacrifice can I make because and it was revenue, but it's a short term thing and so the greater good. Yes. Well there you go. So being really honest and listeners sort of getting an insight into, you know what we're going through and yeah, that's right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well yeah, thanks for your time and your insight on that. You know all these conversations we have about resilience and and growth with our guests as well and we're in the thick of it for people to witness. So yeah, exactly.
And we're not immune right? Like I was talking to a friend of mine that's been supporting me with my decisions here. Like you know, I'm a coach and I still go through the same ship that everyone else has to go through. You know, we don't have all the answers all the time. But it's a case of going to people that have been here, but we're not the first ones. Right? Totally not the first. We're not going to be the last to have this. Better not feel this funk feel this, do I throw the towel and I just go work for myself. Like the comment you made right earlier before we hit record of you know how different your life would have been if you had worked for someone else versus running your own business. I've asked myself that all the time, especially when I have to pay bloody tax. Trust me, you know, we all go through that. But you know you have to go and ask the people and share your thoughts and insights with people that have done it before you. So what have they done, How have they done it? What experiences have they gone through and you know what the common answer and I've asked a couple of people this the common answer is the word.
You've got to experience discomfort. Well, it's yeah, it's really uncomfortable where I am now being so close to burnout. But I can see that nothing will change unless I change something. And so like you say, you've got to step into that. So it's what level of discomfort as well, because it's not comfortable now either, let alone making a hard decision. You know? And I think also how we feel now if we're not stepping into even more discomfort and making a decision, it's almost like we're waiting for something bad to happen. Yeah, it's like constantly on the back of our minds. So whether that bad is I'm gonna have a breakdown or the bad is I'm going to lose staff. All the bad is my business will just fail. Yes. Or the bad is what will everyone think of me? There's different levels of bad that weighs on us. And there's days where all of that badness is in our mind and there's days where we can push it away, but we still know that something's going to happen.
Um it's not a nice place to be. It's not a nice feeling to be and it's a lot of weight to carry a Yeah, yeah, that's right. I am, I'm, wait, I'm exactly as you say, I'm at that point where I'm like there is something that is going to happen that is just going to at a whole lot of stress and crisis somewhere and I'm just waiting for it. And and it's the anxiety of that too. Mm hmm. Yeah. And then you look at the week that you've got, like you said with lots of appointments in the day. You know, you're not you're not bringing your best self to your clients at all. And that's not why you got into business. Is it really? You know, it's about you're passionate about what you're bringing a different style of law experience to these people that walk through your doors every day. And if that's not what you're doing then what is the bloody point? Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Thank you for the reality check. Yeah. We all need it. I had mine a few weeks ago.
So yes. You know what I went through exactly that horrible discomfort feeling and there's still a little bit of discomfort now. But I'm in a better place because you know why it's making the freaking decision that I made the decision and you made the decision and now I've got to see it through and I'm going to see it through. Irrespective of bad decision. Better decision. Whatever it is I'm going to see it through. Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, as you say, you've made a decision and there's change. If you hadn't done it, you would have been on a hamster wheel leading to burnout. Just like I am so mm hmm. It's funny how closely we're mirroring each other's experience. It is. It is. But then look at look at where we were when we, when we started this a couple of years ago to where we are now. Like we've grown with different people. We've I learned so much where we're better people and being, you know, with that we've got different sets of challenges. We do, we do.
Mhm Alright, let's segue into listening to our guests. It was a really different interview because it was yeah, I got to speak to Jody Pervis who has spent her career in playing elite sport and in sports administration. So she was the captain of the Australian women's cricket team for five years. From 2000 and 9 to 2, 2014. She led the women's cricket team to two World Cups in a row, 2012 in Sri Lanka and 2013 in India. So she played elite cricket for 17 years. But when she retired in 2016, she's remained really active as an advocate around the game and for women's sport generally. So just such a different experience from what I have, you know, people I've spoken to and people that I know before.
So this was really great. Let's have a listen, Jody welcome to the podcast, how are you? Yeah, great. Thanks Jackie. thanks for having me today. It's it's wonderful to be here. I'm really excited because your career has been quite different from a lot of other guests that we've had on, you've been a professional sports person and been able to transition through that as well. So it's really exciting. I love talking to really motivated people. Yeah, thank you. I've been very fortunate to I guess have a different sort of journey. But a large part of that has been as a I guess a professional cricketer, cricketer, I guess I wasn't totally professional when I played, but I guess I came through the elite system in Australia when I guess the female cricketers were still essentially amateur And I guess, you know, really playing for the fun of it, but you know, it was a large part of my journey and I think I spent about 17 years in the elite domestic system and then also for Australia.
So it feels like such a long time ago now, but I was really blessed to spend a lot of time in that it's almost like you're growing up through that roll yourself has also seen the growing up of women's sport even as well. Yeah, no definitely, I guess I sort of look back when I was a young girl and my journey really started in the backyard, like a lot of people's journeys who end up being professional sports people and you know, I think my father put a tennis racket in my hand and I think there's actually a picture of me as about a three or four year old with one of those little kanga cricket bats in my hand and so, you know, those sorts of moments are probably the real, real starting point of sports persons journey and that was really mine. So I looked back and I was blessed to have brothers and sisters who came out in the backyard and play as well with me and you know, that's really where my sports journey started. I was fortunate my, my father was a great sports person in his own right and a touch football and indoor cricketer and tennis player and so I suppose I got a bit of a love of sport from him.
So, so when you were growing up, did you think that being a professional sports person was a career or did you always think, well I love sport, but this is what I'm going to be? Yeah. Look, I think funny enough, my goal as a really young girl was to be a professional tennis player of all things. So I had, I got a twin sister, Natalie and we were fortunate to grow up together and traveled to junior tennis tournaments. We trained in a squad together and you know, my mom drove us around Queensland the tournaments every weekend, so we'd play in the doubles comps together and singles camps and I guess occasionally I would win the odd match. So as you can imagine between sister, that would great, a little bit of competition. Yeah, but you know that that was actually my goal. I remember the Woodies who played at Wimbledon, so Todd, Woodbridge and Woodforde, well that was I guess my goal was to go to Wimbledon and playing the Wimbledon women's doubles final with my sister, Natalie.
So you know, I still had that dream for a long time, but as life changes and things happen, you know, my sister stepped away from sport, mid high school and I guess I continued on my journey of playing tennis and a number of sports, so I didn't quite get to Wimbledon obviously, but had a lot of fun memories of tennis along the way, but you might not have got to Wimbledon, but did you get to tour the UK with the Australian team? Yes, I did. So, you know, that was kind of, you know, I'm really grateful for where I got to my professional sporting career. If I step back a little bit when I was growing up, I was one of those girls that probably a bit of a tomboy. I was that one during the school sports carnivals that even if I wasn't any good at it, you know, I would participate in the cross country race, I'd jump in and do the swimming events participate in the touch football, have a go at rugby league with the boys.
So I guess for me being at home, I guess I developed a bit of confidence and myself stepping over those white lines. So I guess I was quite a a shy young girl growing up and probably in some circumstances now I still am reserved and a little bit introverted. But I suppose that's what a lot of people find with sport and physical activity. You know, it brings out a bit of confidence helps you build your self esteem and those sorts of characteristics. Mm hmm. Yeah, it's interesting what you say about your sister sort of stepping back from sport yet that's where you found more confidence and and we're confident enough to give everything a try as well. Because it is a bit of a line for girls at that stage, isn't it? Like 14, 15? It's not for some it's not cool or something. Yeah, it really is. I think a lot of the research shows that that girls get to the teenagers and for a number of reasons, I think that in itself, you know, sort of I guess what the image issues, I think touch on jobs become an option for girls and earning money, I guess if you want to be real about it boys and those sorts of distractions as well.
But you know, at the end of the day it's it's challenging. And I suppose also as you get a bit older, sport actually can be quite expensive for families, so, you know, if there's sort of 1234 Children in a family and you know, you've got parents trying to take kids to multiple sports, you know, that's a real challenge and also quite, you know, it's a little bit hard financially as well, so that's definitely one thing I looked back and was very grateful to my parents and think, wow, I was given such a brilliant opportunity to not only play tennis, but my dad would drive me to cricket matches, I was in darling down soccer competitions and I just look back and think, wow, they, you know, they did that all for me. Yeah, yeah. How then did you step into an elite cricket career? That's a tongue twister, isn't it? And look, I think, yeah, stepping back again, I guess I as I said, I picked up a kanga cricket bat probably when I was about four and then there's probably if I step forward again coming from Toowoomba in Queensland, I really was the only girl playing cricket at that stage and I think it was about grade three actually where I remember we were doing jump rope for heart on the tennis court and I love skipping, but I remember looking over to the cricket nets and thinking I saw the boys training in the cricket nets and I thought, you know, I really want to have a go at that, but again, I was pretty shy young girl and thought, you know, they're not going to accept me or why is the teacher going to let me play.
But it was a really pivotal moment probably in my cricket journey because I guess I had the courage to ask my grade three teacher who was actually, I guess a male, could I come and try out for the boys grid team? And he said yes, so you know, that's a pivotal moment in your dream really. Like if he had said no, I probably wouldn't have ever really kept going. So, you know, that was a small step, having the courage to go over and play with them. I started playing junior boys cricket on the weekends in Toowoomba And then probably when I was about 13 or 14 I met a really influential lady, Catherine Raymond, We lived in garden, which is about 45 minutes from Toowoomba, but my parents would drive me down on a sunday as an example and drop me off on the side of the highway in lately and she would pick me up and take me to Brisbane and she did that for weeks and months for me to have an opportunity then to go and participate in women's cricket, which was in Brisbane. So that was then my kind of introduction to the women's side of things and I suppose alongside that I was still playing, I guess some top level tennis, but it was becoming harder to juggle.
So I'd sort of play compared to tennis during the winter cricket in the summer and I would cycle that every year And then I guess, you know, you come to a grade 11 and 12 and I was quite focused on my studies and getting the best hope I could. So there was those pressures as well and yeah, I guess I got to probably, to be honest, under grade 12 and knew that I probably wasn't going to be the next Ashleigh Barty or serena Williams was more of a ranch of Sanchez Vicario, if you remember her, she used to run, you know, she just chased balls down a bit like Lleyton Hewitt and that was how I played and I guess again, another people, the moment I probably had to just make a decision and a call about if I wanted to go somewhere and as an elite athlete, I probably had to choose and for me, I felt like at that point in my life I had a better opportunity to go somewhere and cricket, so that's what I did. So yeah, I started, I moved to Brisbane for university and started essentially dedicating a lot of my time to cricket training and yeah, I guess that's when I started to make some of those high level squads like the Queensland squad and you know, probably started dreaming of bigger dreams, like playing for Australia.
So yeah, that's a bit of a summation there, but you sort of look back and think, wow, there was a lot of, you know, it's just pivotal moments and probably pivotal people that were influential in helping set me up on the right path. Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. In the right place at the right time. Or like you said, you might have just let it sort of slip away. But luckily you had the support there. What did you study for your bachelor degree? Yeah, funnily enough, again, what do you want to be when you grow up? I thought I wanted to be a physio. So in grade 12, I put myself under a lot of pressure actually, I did, you know, Biology, chemistry, physics, mass B and all those sort of things. I thought that's what I want to do. And so I moved into a Bachelor of Human Movement Science degree, University of Queensland. And then probably with the view that I might move into physio, but you know, it just didn't quite happen. And also in that degree you can either be sort of like an exercise scientist or go into teaching and I must admit at the time I thought I'm not sure I'm teaching materials, but as they say, you know, I've always been one of those people that I guess once you start something, you know, I like to finish it and that's the advice I was always given.
You know, once you start something, you've got to do the best you can as much as possible to finish it. So I did that, I was sort of working part time studying full time and also training on the side too to go somewhere in cricket. So, but you know, I look back and some of the best time in my life was actually my university education and you know, I think when you're in it, it's quite a hard slog but it's such a valuable experience for you and moving forward. Mm hmm. Yeah, well it's certainly tests you to see how much you wanted as well, doesn't it? And juggling so many things as well shows you what you can achieve, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. I suppose I look back on that, I heard in my life I was sort of 18 1920 and just if I can briefly mention, you know, I remember some weekends where at the time I had a part time job at a newsagent bakery and I waitressed at a function center for a wedding venue in Brisbane. And so you know, as an example on a friday, I would work at the bakery, then I would head straight to the newsagent, sometimes I'd go to the function that night and work at a wedding, Get up the next morning, do my fitness training, head to my job, maybe try and get a bat at the same time and that night I might work again and then turn up the cricket on a sunday and try and score runs or take some wickets.
So, you know, I look back and think, well how do you, how did I have the energy to do that? But I suppose when you're, when you got a goal and a dream, sometimes you will go that extra mile to try and make that happen. Yeah, that's it. And you've got some momentum behind you as well and probably being that young helps because there's no way I could only sleep five hours a night. Now. I look back and think, yeah, how it's good to be useful, sorry, you're playing some pretty good cricket, you're making some state level teams, looking towards getting on the Australian team, when you make it to the Australian team. And you know, now think of that being as you know, that's professional, that's elite. Is it enough to support you full time or are you working as well? Yeah, no, not at that stage. So I guess I came into domestic cricket in about 4000 and 1, 16 year old and at that stage it was just simply amateur, we were, but at the same time we were very fortunate that, you know, the domestic association supported us by paying for our flights, accommodation and those sorts of things.
So, you know, prior to that, not only did women not get paid, but they also had to pay for their accommodation, their flights and all those sorts of things. So, And even when I came into the Australian team sort of 2005, it was it was very much amateur. Think I looked back in one of my first contracts affairs down the track was it might have been about 2.5 grand. So pretty much my entire career I worked and all of the female cricketers in domestic and the Australian courters were in the same boat. So they had to work, I guess to make a living and then also turn up on the side. So, you know, even just if I look back on say the Queensland fireside, which is the state women's team. We had lawyers who worked on the team, we had an ambulance driver, had teachers and you know, everyone would go to their day jobs and then turn up the night time 234 times a week and train train their hearts out play on the weekends and do it all again.
So I guess I've seen the progression of not only women's cricket, but women's sport and you know, to see now that the Australian, not only the Australian women's team, but the domestic players are, you know, they're much better paid. Their high performance conditions are much better supported. What I will say is it's not equal, it's definitely not to the point now where we can say we're equal with the men's cricketers, but you know, it's been set up now to move in a positive direction. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I suppose a lot of that comes from sponsorship as well, doesn't it? Because I know sponsors still look more towards the men's sports than women's too, don't they? Yeah, they do. I think it's, you know, the the attitudes have been changing and the climate has been changing a lot more now that, you know, I think it's not easy for supporting organizations just to support men's sport now, they do need to provide both. I think there's more accountability there to do that. And I suppose if I look at my sport in particular, A really big moment for women's cricket, Australia was actually 2,017 when we were able to get the men and women in one mou agreement for the first time.
So prior to that, you know, women's cricketers had sat outside, I guess in a little bubble of their own with a small amount of money to support, you know, 300 women's cricket cricketers across Australia. So bringing them into an mou agreement sort of four years ago allowed for it to be set up more equitably. And, you know, the female players now get access to superannuation retirement funding, you know, a parental policy now to support them if they choose to have a child and want to try and continue to play cricket and all those sorts of things like having a job, make it worthwhile and make give those women an opportunity to have, I guess prolonged careers as well, wow, what a huge change. I know, it's just it's been amazing to watch it happen. As I said, we're not there yet, we don't have like a lot of women's sports, and if you look across afl w LW, even the netball, we're getting there, but we're not there, you know, we need more sponsorship, we need more games on television and getting that out there so that young girls and boys can see it, you know, If we were talking in the 80s and 90s, I wouldn't have Really batted an eyelid about where it was, but you know, where over two decades into the 21st century, and it's just like why has it taken so long?
But you know, we're not going to have those answers, it's just good that it is getting somewhere. Yeah, definitely. It's great to see that changing. And even just little things like injury payments, suppose if I look back on my a late career, I had a number of, I guess pretty bad injuries which kept me out for long periods of time and during those periods while I was recovering, I didn't earn a salary or I didn't earn injury payments. Where, but the mou again has set that up now that, you know, female players are injured if they get a shoulder injury and they're out of the game for months at a time. Not only do they get a salary, but they continue to earn, you know, match payments that they would have received, they were playing and those sorts of things, which gives people peace of mind and also the knowledge that then they can go about their recovery and come back better and stronger. That's great. Now, I know that in the background behind all this that you're doing, you also did an MBA and you've accelerated your career through a lot of sports administration and been quite a leader in the space for women too, haven't you?
So I mean, tell us a bit about that. I've been very fortunate and I guess that was probably something for me. I knew when I was coming towards the end of my career career that I wanted to be someone that stayed involved in the game and sort of gave back my energy in a number of ways. So I guess over the years I've been a player and advocate, I suppose in the Players union role at the Australian Cricket Association, I've had opportunities to coach and mentor young people and last year had an opportunity to select within our youth pathways program. So I guess it's nice to be able to be involved in those roles and I guess I can continue my leadership journey if you like and sort of contribute back to the sport I guess, which gave me so much so hopefully there's more to come, Jackie, I don't doubt it. That's for sure. Tell us what you're passionate about now. What's your big driving force that you've got all your energy behind?
Yeah, I think well there's probably a couple of things. I'm a big family person, so you know, I'm one of five Children and as I said before, I wouldn't have got anywhere in my journey, whether it was cricket or my sports administration career or even away from the park without the support of my parents and my brother and sisters. So I try now to be focused on getting back and seeing them as much as possible and spending time with my nephews and nieces and yeah, I'm really passionate about health and well being as well. I think that, you know, that's a real theme these days of staying fit and healthy and that's probably something I knew when I also finished playing. That I wanted to maintain that I suppose some people finished their elite careers and you know, which they can, if they want, they can head down the maybe eating a few markers burgers for me, I guess I've always prided myself on staying fit and healthy and I've had good role models in my father in that sense.
So I've always said, I hope I'm like him when he's his age running around the tennis court fit and healthy masters here you come, maybe I'm old enough now so I can participate. Yeah, They only have to be 35 and over these days, younger and younger, that's a bit depressing actually, they must, they must have to have a new category like masters plus or something, I don't know. So What advice then, looking back would you give to your 21 year old self after all the things that you've sort of learnt on your way through becoming a leader, through traveling and also seeing the changes that you have in women's sport over the years. Many lessons, Jackie, I think probably if I look back on my younger self, I would say to that young girl that you have time and you know, to have confidence in yourself, I suppose that's probably always been something for me that has been a challenge.
You know, just that, that self doubt and having belief in your ability and what you bring to the table and occasionally that still happens. So it might be if you're a job opportunity comes up or you know, it's stepping into that limelight and having to go and actually believing in yourself. So that's probably the first thing I would have told my younger self, I probably also probably wouldn't stressed out so much In Grade 11 and 12 over my hope and that's what I try to tell, you know, those young people now is you've got time to work out where you're going with your career, you know, I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up and that's the journey that a lot of people are on. You know, I thought I wanted to be a physio and, and I currently now work at a council as an example of events. So even just having those experiences in between, they're all learning opportunities, whether that's going to university, you know, one of the best ones for me was actually doing the Master of Business administration. I spent a lot of time with some really positive and wonderful people and that's where you learn a lot of lessons and a lot of those people weren't sports people.
So for me it was a whole new world of, of learning. So that's probably another lesson is just stepping into those new worlds and those new opportunities and giving it your best shot because you just don't know where that might lead you in the future. Mm hmm You be very used to having coaches in your sporting life as well. Have you used coaches in other areas of your life? Yeah, I have probably something now that I look and go, that's where I think there's that word mentors and it's probably something that I need to be better at is just reaching out to two more people. So for me whether it's I'm really interested in leadership and how different leaders tickets. So I enjoy reading leadership books and how people have led teams and done it successfully. So I guess that's probably another thing is just reaching out to people that have the same passion as you and try and learn as much as you can from them. Mm hmm. Yeah. It seems to be a theme that comes up a lot for women, particularly in their early years.
They think that they have to do it all themselves and push themselves and don't reach out enough to ask for help. But you know, around the mid thirties that we all seem to go, oh wow. There were so many people that would have supported us if we had just asked. Yeah, definitely. That's, that's a real learning one and something I'm still learning is the power of asking for help at times or you know, being prepared to ask other people to support you whether it's with a dream or a goal. I started a scholarship program in 2014 and you know, I've been, I've been able to keep that going. But I guess it's a good example of keeping it going with the support of other people, whether that was sponsors or you know, there was a lot of knock backs with that. And I suppose that's another lesson in itself is I think throughout your life you're going to have eyes and lows, there was many of those during my sporting career and I guess it's how you move forward through them with a positive attitude and that real resilience and determination to overcome adversity.
So I don't think those things ever stop. You know, you saw sometimes you might be going through a valley and next minute climbing up here. But I think you've just got to keep going and never give up. Mm hmm. Yeah. So when you do hit those lows or even if you're on a high, how do you check in with yourself to make sure that you know, you're on track and that you you are going okay. I think for me it's I'm a real walker. So I like a good walk around the block. So whether that's in the morning or the evening or heading to the gym and I suppose there's also, you know, the big buzzword these days is meditation. I won't say I'm very good at meditation, but for me that's where walking comes into it. Or you know, putting on a really positive podcast or something like that. Reading a really good book. So I think that um listening to really positive content and what you consume really helps with where your mindsets are. So even the people that you surround yourself day to day, whether it's in your work or your family or your friendships, trying to have as many positive people around you as you can.
Mm Yeah, no great tips. I love that about consuming, consuming positive stuff rather than just absorbing stuff that might be around, which isn't in your best interest. Yeah. But I think and then that's but that's probably something I've also had to learn is I think there's a real in the society we're living at the moment, there's a lot of high performers and sometimes we can compare ourselves to other high performers around us and we don't ever learn to To switch off or just be and rest. And so that's something I've had to learn a number of times is you can't continue to just keep working 110 day in day out with having rest. And occasionally I think we all try to do everything and don't do that. So trying to manage your well being and your self care and finding things that you also enjoy. It makes it all worthwhile. Mm. Yeah, I think that's a lesson I need to take more of is the rest. So a couple of last little asks, I guess what can we help you with?
So if you wanted to direct our listeners to go somewhere to learn something, what you're doing or to get involved in something, what would you ask us to do? I'm not a huge one for social media, Jackie, but I would just love for your listeners just to maybe go and watch a women's sport and then so go and support our super net ballers go and support the Australian women's cricketers go out and watch an flW match because I think what you'll find is that the skill and the ability and the dedication of those athletes is on par or even better than sometimes our men's athletes. So go out and enjoy it, support them and really get behind them. Alright, we will, we'll at least go and watch one and start getting really involved and and start supporting a team. That sounds like a really good idea. Very good. Alright, well look Jody, thanks so much for making time. I think that you know, there's so much more we could have delved into, but half an hour always goes so quickly.
You know, I just admire so much what you've been able to do and you know, it's just like I said earlier, so foreign to what I've experienced myself that all I have is admiration. So thanks again for this evening. And yeah, I would love for everyone to be able to reach out to you and let you know what they watched. That would be great. Thanks for the opportunity to come on the podcast. I've really enjoyed listening to all the wisdom that your guests have had on there. So keep up the great work and now you're one of them. Thanks Jody. Thank you. Okay, I wish, what do you think? Mm hmm. You know, I'm going to just jump to something that she said to the end of the interview actually, which was sort of my biggest takeaway and I think it ties in also nicely with our conversation this morning is the comparison trap piece. Yeah.
So around how do we stop, you know, really looking at what is going on around us and letting that dictate how we feel and make our decisions and she would have had to have really stopped that or you know, look at things differently from that point of view and otherwise, you know what she wouldn't be where she is. Yeah. Yeah. You're exactly right. I had a note from what she had said at the end as well about the highs and lows of your experience and you know, with the in elite sport, the highs would be so high with the winds and the lows of injury and things would certainly be so low and it's how you deal with the knock backs. Mm hmm. Yeah. Exactly. Because you've got to deal with them. That's not the that's right. You can't just chuck it in. You can't. And I think also, you know that level of sport and your mind. I think I just think your mindset is at a different level.
Like, you know, running a business is a different level of mindset and thought process as is elite sports and it's not right or wrong, but it's just you're driven differently. You think differently. I'm sure if they looked at our neurons in our brains, we'll, you know, we'll be wired differently. Yeah. Yeah, jodi said at the end as well about, you know, the importance of high performers having rest and you were just saying as well. Like I need to book in a couple of days to give myself mental space to think and process and make a decision. Mm hmm. And it's about doing for ourselves. What if you if you if you were the roles were reversed, you would say exactly the same thing to me. Without a shadow of a doubt. You were Jackie. But do we always listen to our own advice? No, we don't know. Or we think the rules apply differently to ourselves. We're like, oh that those rules apply for everyone else. But you know, I'm different because I can't I can't do what everyone else can do or whatever.
You know? Or or it starts saying that you know what your fuel burn out. But of course I'm not gonna have a breakdown that happens to other people. Yeah. Yeah. What happened to you know. So, yeah, I think that whole you know, and then the whole comparison trap, I think you know, we can fall into it at the best of times. But we also fall into it when we need to make tough decisions. Mm hmm. Because we looked at that and go, well that person has done this for the last few years and they have not had to make a tough decision. But you know, we don't know that we don't know what is going on behind people's businesses and careers. Unless they are openly sharing. Yes. And that very rarely happens. And certainly the people that we admire from afar, we don't know enough detail to be comparing. No, and that's why now I mentioned to you really, that's why one of the reasons that you know kept someone that I speak to is he's, he's been open about his burnout, he's been open about saying he's been a nasty person because of how he feels.
Um, and and that triggered you know, certain things that he didn't want to steel and be as a person. Um I'm just going to pull something up actually because it's quite timely, just give me one sec. Yeah, no worries. So where is it? Okay, I'm just going to read what he wrote because it was something that really helped me and I think it might timely with what we're talking about and also in relation to sports. So he said, you know, people think that an entrepreneur as well, it is super cool, all that, traveling around the world, all that freedom formula stuff, but the life of an entrepreneur, Carrie's dreams, but it also carries demons. It can be one of the loneliest careers you've ever known. The roller coaster of uncertainty combined with pure adrenaline of the chase, believe me when I say this is real because behind every success post, there is a dark story behind every hustle post, there is a true lie and behind every stolen quote, there is someone that wants to be noticed, the narcissistic behavior the untold ego, Even if you don't admit it, there is a dark side entrepreneurship and business which seeps into your veins and courses its way through your blood.
And that toxicity carries envy jealousy and viable re it carries your deepest pains and manifest toxics behavior and reaction. And not everyone is cut out to do this and not every successful entrepreneur is admired. You can fall into the trap or you can spend around the hamster wheel but always remember the life of an entrepreneur does have dreams but work on your demons too. Oh my God. That is such a timely quote. Well done remembering that. That's just about made me cry. Yeah. And I read that last night and I was like, you know what? There are parts of that where we feel like the demons were tough. Like it is. It's so true. And he knocked the ego viral out of me in a good way to because he's like, you know what? Yes, you've had growth. Yes. You've had this. But you know what stop and assess where you are. Mm hmm. So yeah, everyone's gonna do that. And irrespective of you know sports business elite startup.
You know at the end of the day, we're all humans about human behaviors and feelings. Yeah. Yeah. And we're all striving for something that were quite passionate about like we've all got some kind of mission that is driving us. Um And and when you ah you know a high performer quite often you have whether you feel like a demon or you have those demons that at you Yeah, there's gotta be a way of was kat said work on your demons and even jodi sort of mentioned it as well. Like really focused on what she was consuming and making sure that what she was consuming was positive because there's enough negativity in your own head let alone adding more externally. Yeah, that's right. Mm hmm. And you know sometimes you gotta just, you know, stop that noise. Yeah. Like around you what everyone else is doing, what other people are going to think of you.
Mm hmm. Yeah. You've got to do what's right for you at that at that moment in time. Mm hmm. Yeah. It I am at a crossroads heading towards burnout for so long. In fact the change has been needed for quite a while. But it's scary to make that decision and make that call. But jodi again said it as well. Like when you have self doubt and she talked about having a lot of it but still being able to bring yourself to having a go. So I can compare that to all the self doubt that I have at the moment about making change and I'm not having a go. All I'm doing is doing the same things the same way. Yeah. So it's stepping up and and having a go at something different and different isn't bad. Mm hmm. You know and different isn't failure either.
Mm hmm. Yeah. No, that's right. And it's not like you can't change back or change again anyway, why am I thinking that if I make a change then I'm stuck with? Whatever I decide. That's right. It's about doing something. That's the key. Mm hmm. And the first thing you can do is have a couple of days off next week. Yes. Yes. That's your decision. But you should be doing today is moving some appointments. I've taken a whole lot of little notes for myself from what you've been saying and I will. I'll go in and try and find some space. Yes. Yeah. The other thing actually about jodi's interview that I wanted to explore a little bit or just comment on was how different her career path may have been if she had been professional tennis versus cricket because tennis is not really team is it? But cricket has a huge team around you with others. Doing the same thing.
Going through the same thing and it has helped or given her the opportunity to be a leader and the captain of a team. Whereas tennis, I would never have presented that. I wouldn't think. Mm hmm. Exactly. I agree. Yeah. So yeah, I thought that was great speaking to jodi so different. But yet so many, so many parallels at the same time, fascinating stuff. And you know, I say it almost every time half an hour is just not long enough to delve in. There was so many rabbit holes that I wanted to go down with Jody and there'll probably be lots of people going, ah you should have asked this, you should have asked that. You didn't didn't go down this path. I wanted to know this. But having said that, you know, reach out, reach out to jodi, she's on linkedin. That's a great place to find her. And of course, you know, comment and ask questions on our episodes as well. So you can do that at I Q meets eq dot com dot au or reach out to us personally.
I wish where can they find you? Yeah, I'm an eq dot academy, brilliant. I almost want to Yeah. And laugh every time. The best place for me lately as well is Jackie at legally wise women dot com dot au. So I hope this was helpful for some people. Like we're just being brutally honest with what we're going through. You know, I hope that it, it hits some, you know, Hopefully it resonates yes. The word, hopefully it resonates. Yeah. All right, well stay tuned for the next episode to see how we're going to talk to you soon. Bye. Thanks. Right