Welcome to the I. Q. Mixers EQ podcast. I'm Jackie Bowman, principal solicitor at T. B. A. Law and ceo of legally wise women and I'm here as always with Bush stanic former corporate lawyer then head of HR now an emotional intelligence coach, good morning or Good morning, Jackie. How are you going? Yeah. Really well. How are you? I'm good. I had more than two hours sleep in a row last night after 10 days. So yes. Brand new. I know. She's pretty freaking cute. That's for sure. Yes. Everyone needs to check out all the photos of snoopy all over instagram and facebook everywhere. All over facebook. Yes. Yes. And I feel good. Yeah. Last night, like I was saying to you before we hit the court last night, she pretty much had a full night of sleep. So there you go. That's brilliant. And her and Marshy are getting along very well. They're getting along really, really well. Yeah. They're great together.
That's amazing. I was so worried about, you know, the cat and the dog having the cat first is the better way to go. So that is totally the way to go. Yeah, that's right. Have the cat first and life is good. That's great. It's almost been like waiting for this dog for ages and I just wanted to see the dog this morning and then you're like my phone, my internet won't work well. Like. No, we'll literally just cut off if we do the podcast. I've had issues for a whole week. Yeah. I wonder now that you say that because this week has also been well, you know, we're recording Tuesday last week has also been horrible down here for internet and power and everything the whole day Tuesday last week we had internet problems. Our my provider though with the offsite service is in Sydney and so they just had a hell day last Tuesday and all their clients could hardly do anything because they their stuff wasn't working last.
Yeah. And then last thursday night we had massive storms and friday, The power was out all day until 4:00. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I know, I've been like that all week. It's just the apartment there where I am, so I'm just going to have to look at getting better extenders and stuff and otherwise, yeah, client calls has been a pain in the Yeah, it's tough. It is. You take it for granted when you're in a place that you know, that has amazing white phone, then you move and it's like, oh God, really? Especially when so much of your work is online, all of it is, Yeah, exactly. Mhm. How our clients going sort of easing back into the, you know, new, normal. Yeah, it is. And now everything's, you know, slowly opening up as well, so loads of sort of things to do in that space with businesses wanting to know what the rules are coming back to work. So, but I definitely feel we've turned a corner now, you know, especially after yesterday with, you know what, the 1st 16 flights that have landed and come back into Sydney.
Yeah, yeah. And it's almost like in victoria here today, it's our first really warm day of spring, It's gonna be about 30° and we had, you know, more relaxation of the rules last Friday and it just feels like the positivity of the new normal and the weather is all just coming together nicely at the perfect time. You know, you can tolerate it when it was freezing cold and wet, miserable all the time. And now that the sun's out, we're like just everyone is outside, everyone is just doing stuff and seeing each other. And I actually went fishing on the bay on sunday and there were boats everywhere and it was just the most beautiful day and everyone was all really friendly and well behaved and just enjoying it was good. Beautiful. Yeah, I think if there's anything to be grateful for is we have the lockdown in winter.
Right? Yes, that's right. Now, it's all opening up and yeah, the weather is a lot better. Yes, now this week, so glad to sort of introduce you to Carolina fontana lee as the lady that I interviewed. I've actually been in paralyze group, the scalable business lounge since maybe february of this year. Yeah, it's really great how she's approaching it and I just saw her as such an expander for myself because she, you know, she came to law later in life. but she came to it as a businesswoman and has treated her firm like a business and I've always wanted to do that, but I came to business as a lawyer already and treated it as a job and now I'm having to change my mindset and having her as an example of how it can be done has just sort of actually showing me that it's possible.
So yeah, that's I guess where I come from, from Knowing her, so you'll hear all about her in her interview, she goes all the way back to being in business in her early 20's and then sort of growing up in New Zealand and then coming over to the gold coast and what she's done with her business. So yeah, let's have a listen, really, I'm so excited to have you welcome to the podcast, thank you, Thanks for having me. You're welcome. It's sort of like a role reversal now because I was on yours now, you're online. How do you go when you're being interviewed? It's just a conversation really. So, you know, it doesn't it doesn't bother me too much and I'm a total open book, so you can ask me anything and I just, you know, speak from the heart as to what the answer is, so I don't take it too seriously like an interview, it's more just a conversation and I find that that's when podcasts really come across the best, don't they, because then the listener can be involved in the conversation.
Yeah, absolutely, much more engaging then. So I know lots about your journey, but some of our audience might not. So can we go all the way back to when you were little? Where were you and what you wanted to do then? Yeah, sure. So I am from new Zealand which you might may or may not be able to pick up in my accent. I grew up in a small town called Fang today, which is north of Auckland near the bio violence and fairly ordinary family, nothing, you know, nothing major in terms of like just middle of the road. And I grew up really being a bit of a school truant and not really enjoying being educated and mom and dad didn't particularly like push that on us in any way. They sort of, we were a little bit dragged up, I suppose you could say, but not and I'm not, don't mean that in a negative way. It was just, it was just you know, went to school with no shoes on and you know, packed the maori bread that was in the fridge for lunch and you know scraped together a dollar for a pie on friday kind of thing.
Like it was just like that. And my dad was a sailor and made everything himself and we had a yacht and we would just like outdoors all the time and swimming in on the boat and you know that was just life and going to uni wasn't really on the cards at all for me or my brother and it was never something discussed. The only thing that was really discussed about my education was that I would be okay as long as I wasn't a checkout girl, so that was, that was all they really cared about or wanted for us, not much and of course they would always say and just don't get pregnant. So you know, I sort of grew up without much direction I guess you could say hmm well I mean I know you were such a driven person and to grow up without any of that pressure like you just carve your own path then. So what are the steps then after school, what did you do? Yes, so I sort of floated from job to job because I am someone who Gets distracted by butterflies and the next best thing.
So I didn't really settle on anything and you know it's not much fun as a 16, 17 year old kid being a junior in anyone's business With no direction, so and I probably wasn't the best employee when I was that age either. And so I met the guy that I was going to marry very early, I was 19 and then went, moved to Auckland and I actually studied beauty therapy of all things can you believe and then I went out and started my own business, like straight away when I was 20 and he was an optometrist. So together we started an optometry practice as well. And so really I've never been employed except for that little tiny bit before I was sort of 20 years old where I floated from job to job. So that's sort of how my life and business started. And after Paul and I started the optometry practice, we got, I was only 22 at that time, I had a baby and we then got a business coach which was an action business coach who was started by Brad Sugar.
So I that that action coaching was started by Brad Sugars. I went along to a um brad sugars event in Auckland which was like mind blowing for a little girl from all gray and I was just, it was just amazing to me this whole, opened up this whole world just in this sort of one free event that we went along to. And then from there we had the action coach shoot, which helped us in our first sort of 12 months of business and it really changed the course of my entire life I guess. Yeah, wow approaching can have a massive impact. But I, yeah, I understand that feeling that you get at one of those big events. I think I must have been about the same age, early twenties and I went to a similar event and just started reading all those books and things, that community starts throwing at you and it's Yeah, well, I think it opens your mind, like, you know, coming from what I came from, which was to, you know, employed parents who kind of, you know, struggled their way through, like I sort of said before, you know, where that send us to school with no shoes and you know, and there wasn't loads of cash being thrown around 22 then seeing how other people live, because when you grew up in that environment, everyone around you is in that environment and so you don't see anything different and, you know, and also in my upbringing, anyone that was successful, it was kind of nearly like a negative connotation was sort of, you know, it was the vibe, it was, oh well that they must be stingy, or they must be this, or they must do the wrong thing, or they must, you know, like, it was sort of this negative connotation around being successful rather than what it really is, which is that, you know, you're smart and you work hard and you have goals and set your mind to achieve whatever it is that you want to achieve.
So that, that wasn't really part of my upbringing, so that when I went to this conference and it's just like mind blowing and at the time, brad sugars was about 30 so he wasn't all that much older than where I was at, and it was just like, wow, look at this guy who's from Brisbane who's doing all this amazing stuff and then of course you're in a room full of people who are on the same path and so it's it's that that changes your path. Yeah, yeah, I can almost feel the energy. So what's your winding path then to studying law and getting to Australia? So we did really well in our first few years of business and opened several optometry practices and then I was particularly really unhappy with a small baby in new Zealand in Auckland, it was just cold and miserable and it was like we can have whatever life we want, why why are we doing this? And sorry, we sold one business and then um we got a manager into the other one and came to Australia and it was like in the Gold Coast and it was like being on holiday, like it was just amazing the weather, we made friends really easily and quickly we got back into business straightaway over here and I did several other sort of businesses and then had another baby And then I went through a separation myself and I was only 27 at the time, and yes, so he had obviously kept his degree and the business and I was sort of like, oh wow, okay, so I've put all my effort and time into someone else's career and not my own and then shortly after, you know, re partnered and he was a lawyer and I started working in his business and which was only a small law firm that had started a year prior, it was just him and a secretary and I was, I literally woke up one morning and went Caroline, you are not doing that again.
And I just said, well I'm only going to work in your business if I become a lawyer because I don't want to be in that same situation again where you put all your energy and effort and skill because marketing and running your business is just something that I'm really good at naturally and I've obviously been doing that for the last seven years and I just didn't want to be putting all that effort into something that potentially wasn't going to be mine again. So off I trotted to uni And I was 30 at that point. So yeah, that was a big learning curve. I cited Wikipedia and one of my first papers that was very quick learning curve that you don't do that and you just learn to make your lecturers happening because you realize what it still happens in the real world, I guess. Yeah. So why the law? Because I understand that you as a client of a lawyer when you were going through your separation, It wasn't a fantastic experience, was it?
No, well, well, and you can't even really call me a client, I guess I was 27, I had no money of my own because I've been in a partnership I guess you could say. And I basically, you know was like so many women are presented consent orders signed, these went off to a lawyer and she gave me probably good legal advice but she didn't speak to me about costs And I was terrified. I was already spending $300 and something dollars of money that I didn't have on that hour. And we had actually done quite well financially and so we had a decent property pool to divide. But she didn't really talk to me about how I could pay for legal fees or you know the pathways forward and so many of my clients now come into an initial appointment and they say to me, oh, you know, I've had this lawyer, that lawyer and no one has ever explained these things to me. So I just sort of I chose family law before I even started uni because I wanted it to be a better experience for people and we offer deferred payments and I talk about costs and I talk about deferred payment and all of that during an initial appointment because that's just something that it could have changed the course of my life had I either know and more had more support, been more educated or had a lawyer who really held my hand a bit more.
So yeah, so that was sort of my driving passion for family law. Yeah. And your passion for business remained because it's pretty much as soon as you finish your degree, your then back in business again, weren't you? Yeah, that's right. So so I actually, so the business that I started was in was my then we got married was my then husband's. And yeah, so I've been married onto my third marriage, so I'm an expert in many ways when it comes to divorce. So yeah, so at the time he really struggled with business. He couldn't make the business work and being a partner, you know, and the sidekick, I suppose you're not in the driver's seat and you can't, you can You can lead a horse to water but you can't help them. And he really really struggled with it and he always kind of joked that as soon as I finished uni that he'd go into politics. And so basically that's exactly what happened in 2012, my year that I graduated, a position came available for a seat, a local seat and he put his hand up and got the seat and left the business to me to run.
And at the time there was a great deal of debt attached to the business which was before you could incorporate. So it was in his soul name the debt and but we were married. So I just worked my way out of it for him or us. And and so by the time, you know, a few years down the track had passed, I had a really good business and had converted the firm from a general practice that was really struggling to a soul like. So it's just family law to a practice that was really thriving. And one of the things that kind of I was forced to do because I was such a junior lawyer was I was forced to employ a very senior lawyer to supervise me. Which gave me the time and experience of working on the business rather than in it. And so you know, that was probably a really great thing because of what a lot of law firm owners do is they they are the main, you know, all the sole person bringing in fees and then they get junior lawyers which make them busier than ever.
And you know then it's really hard to grow their business because they're not working on it. Whereas I was because of my situation really had to work on the business and bring that work in so that I had enough work to feed the senior lawyer who was, by the way, the first lawyer that the firm had employed in the whole six years it had been open. So that's sort of what happened and it took off from there. Yeah, but it's not like and that's the end of the story, there's no looking back because like you're doing so many things now, your passion and drivers just continue to look at everything that you want to do. Yeah, that's right. And the firm has given me the freedom to be able to do that as well. Sorry. In 2000 and 13 I wrote a cookbook, which I've done three since then because I love cooking and it was just a passion and a hobby that kind of got a bit out of control and ended up With books and shops over in New Zealand and here and in Australia. And so, you know, and I've sold, you know, of the first cookbook, 20,000 copies were sold.
So that's quite good in a small market like New Zealand. So yes. So the firm has given me the freedom to be able to have the time and finance to do that type of thing. And then since then I've really turned my attention to helping other law firm owners find that freedom by scaling their business in a way that's less stressful so that they can actually enjoy their lives and not be, you know, bogged down by 40 hours a week of legal work plus 20 hours a week of running a firm. But rather sort of learned to be working on their business rather than in it. Mm hmm. Yeah. And you're describing me almost. Exactly. And that's why, you know, when I first heard about you, you resonated so much because you've actually approached the law from a business perspective, which is not the natural thing, as you say that a lawyer does and you've essentially got a model then that can be emulated too, because just like you sort of when you were a little girl in your hometown, you couldn't see any different from what you were doing.
Me as a lawyer, I couldn't see any other way of doing a law firm and the model just didn't work. And so you've also demonstrated, well, that's right. And I think that's the thing, like we, a lot of lawyers grow up in law firms from when they're at uni and that's the only business involvement they've had and as a as a lawyer and they see the law firm owner slogging their guts out and you leave thinking, well I can do it better and but because you haven't seen it any other way, you end up leaving it in your own family and also slogging your guts out, which is totally not scalable. So, and what I've created is something that's really scalable and you know, the whole idea of being a business owner is to have more freedom not to be more tied down. That's why most of us go into our own business because we have a dream of having more freedom and more finance and you know, it's spend our time as we want because we're our own boss, that's the ultimate dream, right?
Absolutely, that's right. And with your new business, as you say, working with business owners. It's a model also that's completely online now too. So that's just opened up a hell of a lot more to hasn't it? Absolutely. So I fell in love with digital way back in around 2000 and 16 when I had my cookbooks. That was I really wanted to bring that as a sort of a digital product. But I really really struggled with the vision for it. I struggled and it's exactly the same as what we just talked about before you. It's hard to visualize when you haven't seen something before and sorry. You know nowadays there's so many examples of people doing amazing things online. But even back in 2000 and 16 there really wasn't and it was also hard to create a membership and all of that kind of thing. And then I got introduced to an a. Digital product In about 2018 and and again it went to an incredible conference with the digital product over in the US and then you see a room full of energetic Americans mostly who are screaming because they're so excited about life um you know with lots of different types of visual product digital products.
And then it's like this is so amazing how can I apply this to something that's really valuable to lawyers. So that's sort of that's what I've done there. Yeah it's very exciting. It's a whole new world and the potential is just amazing when you think about it, isn't it really? Yes. And so that's called not the knowledge business and the knowledge business these days is like trillions of dollars worth and even more, Sorry, I think through covid with people being in lockdown and stuck at home having a knowledge business, you know, people are buying that sort of product because you can't leave the, leave the house, you can't go to these conferences in person, all that kind of thing. So it's just become massive. But when I went to the combat conference, I saw people who, I didn't know we're really famous in the industry, but they are because being in Australia a little bit isolated I guess. And there was all these incredible people up on stage speaking about how they've applied the product And what they sell online and what knowledge they sell and how they use it, you know, and some of them were making like $10 million dollars a year, which just like blew my mind and again, it's like when you can see it and you can believe it, you can make it happen and it's the same with the way you run your law firm when you can see that it's possible and that's what I want, people to see from from me, it's possible to run your law firm to not be struggling in it, to work 10 hours a week if you want to, to run an amazing team and to be really profitable and to have freedom to go and do the other things you want to do, whether that's travel, be with your family, do school pickups, create other products or other businesses, Whatever it is, it's 100% possible and you don't have to be in the struggle because you've chosen to be a lawyer.
Yes. Yes. It's exciting. I wanted to go back to food a little bit because I knew you loved cooking and had the books. I didn't realize that you'd need each down quite a lot with those two because the one that I got from you was what vegan and gluten free. Yeah, it's not, they're not vegan. I love meat and eggs. I love eggs, that would, that would prevent me from being a vegan even more than me and fish and things that the books, the southern market or the niche. So I sort of created this blog in 2000 and 12, which was called real food pledge and it was really driven again by my own experience. I used to get incredible tummy aches, like really bad tummy. I got problems all the time and my mother had had the same. And so I had my grandmother and it was so, it was just, I just thought you grew up like that and that, that was normal, but it wasn't, it was actually when I stopped eating processed food.
So anything processed, it stopped, the, the guard aches stopped. So the books are based on gluten, dairy and sugar free. So that's why it was called the real food pledge. So that's still all up online. And so I created first book was real food pledge. Second book or another book is nourishing you. And the other book is real food every day. So that just three cookbooks and all the ingredients are basically anything natural. So you meat veggies, so your proteins, eggs, fruit, you know, herbs, olive oil and coconut oil, coconut milk, nuts. So yeah, desserts made out of those things. Everything is sugar free, which is awesome and yeah, and it was just really fun like this challenge of converting something that I would love. Like mum's chocolate pudding, how do I make that dairy gluten and sugar free. And so I just spend hours creating and and I guess for me, I am really creative and when I've done like personality profiles and things like that, I am a creator which is probably a more unusual personality profile for a lawyer.
Not to say that lawyers aren't creative because there are plenty of creators out there. It was an outlet for sure. Like this creative outlet for me and creating these beautiful books with this gorgeous imagery and creating the recipes. Like the whole thing, I just fell in love with selling books though isn't hugely profitable, definitely a passion project. The photography though is beautiful. Yeah, the photography is gorgeous. I met a girl who lived in the next suburb from me. She also created a food blog at the same time and her passion obviously was cooking as well. But her path took her down. She really loved photography and I met her, I was the first, basically jobs she got and she did an incredible job and now that's her career. Her career is this incredible food stylist photographer, but she also does, um, packaging and stuff like that for, you know, beautiful bath products or skin care products or whatever, which is obviously such a huge business now with the content that we need, you know, for online stuff.
So, so yeah, she's done incredibly well as well. It's amazing. Lucky to have got her at the start. I know I I'm definitely lucky she's done heaps of books since then. Yeah, and it's just, it's awesome. Just these different things and how they open up different relationships with people, you know, with the scalable Business lounge that I've, I'm running for lawyers. It's sorry, awesome. I'm meeting lawyers all around the world who are doing great things and who want more, who are hungry for a better life, which is exactly the sort of person that I want to be hanging out with. Yeah, yeah. Great group. Such a great group. So if you went back to that maybe 17 year old rather than 21 year old. If you go back to her, what would you tell her? What advice would you give her? My advice to her would be to just not be scared of anything and just go for it. And I think probably as a 17 year old to say 25 I really was that person like someone who wasn't really scared of anything, you don't give them anything much thought and you just go for it.
But then as you get older, I found, you know, you get more self conscious or more worried, I guess you've got more to lose and you, you overthink things too much and then, you know, particularly going into law at 30 having the background that I had where you know, I never felt like I was overly bright in terms of education. Um, you know, you then you worry about, oh my God, you know, putting myself out there as a lawyer, what if I get it wrong? And I know so many law law firm owners and lawyers worry about that. That fear of video, the fear of content creation, which these days you've got to get yourself out there. That's how you do it. And so I'm, you know, even with the scalable business lounge, it took me so long to get myself off the ground with that because I was scared and sorry, I think, you know that my message to my 17 year old south would just be, don't hesitate and just go for it, mm hmm, yep CIA slayer.
Yes. With everything that you do, What do you do to check in with yourself to make sure that you're, well that you're on track that you're, you know, do you have little rituals or things that you do for self care or for your own well being? Yeah, I guess well, eating healthy is definitely one of them. When I'm not eating healthy food, the wheels fall off a bit, little bit, You know, you don't feel your best. You feel sluggish. Keeping alcohol and check is another one because, you know, I love a wine. Um, but a wine can easily turn into a wine every night or two or half a bottle or a bottle. So, you know, keeping all that stuff in check definitely. And you know, it's okay for it to get out of balance sometimes, but just bring it back, roll it back in because you're allowed to live and have holidays and all of that. But you just can't be doing that all the time every day. So keeping that in balance. The other thing, like I'm really good at creating balance in my life.
I don't check emails on the weekends as far as the law firm goes at, you know, five o'clock friday, maybe 12 o'clock friday, maybe friday completely. Um, I don't worry about too much, You know, like it's, I would never check an email. Like if you're sending me an email at five o'clock on a friday. I'm not getting it until monday morning, there's just absolutely no way. And I think for a lot of people that's a really big one because it keeps them quite stressed. I don't check emails at night, You know, like just turn that off. What can you do between five PM and eight am anyway? So why put yourself through the stress of it, you know, Because you sometimes you see emails you don't want to see until you're in the headspace that you can do something about it where you can actually take care of it. So those are definitely a couple of things that I do really well and I love having fun. I love going on holidays.
I love, you know, we have a yacht and go sailing. So I love that. Yeah. Just and family time. Just all of that and making I guess fun A big priority of my life. Yes. That's an amazing priority. I'm going to add that to mine. Thank you. Yeah. And it's definitely hard like for some people at the moment to feel, you know, and I've been through it myself, not like everyone in victoria, but just in terms of life changed over the last 18 months, you know, I'm someone who previously was traveling a lot. So going, you know, and for me traveling is fun. Um we'd go to brazil, my husband's Brazilian would go to brazil for a month or six weeks, go to new Zealand, like I probably would spend 10 to 12 weeks traveling a year. Um And so that hasn't been happening in the last 18 months. And so you can start feeling a little bit stale and you start feeling like there's no point even taking leave because where am I going to go? Um so kind of having to reject that mindset and make fun here at home because there's still plenty of places to go and going, getting away just for a weekend.
Even if it's just camping, it can make you feel like you have had a whole holiday and it can help you feel refreshed because you're not checking your emails when you're out camping. Very true, Very true. There's going to be so many people who are going to want to get in touch Caroli. Where should they go to find you? I'm on all of the social channels, but the best ones are instagram, which is currently docked fontana lee, but you just type in currently. I'll pop up and linkedin as well. It's probably the same. I don't think there's too many carol is out there. So that's C A R A L E and my website is caroli fontana li dot com. Great. And that's where all your business programs are on that website. So that's where all the scalable business lounge is over there. So you can, if you're interested in taking a look, I've got a free webinar that you can look at and, and or I'm happy to chat to you about it as well, brilliant. Good. Thank you so much for your time Caroli.
It's always great to talk to you and I'm so grateful to know you and have found you. Thank you. That's not so nice. Alright, well it's your reflections. What do you think? Yeah, it was it was really good, you know, the whole time I'm listening to it, I literally listened to it from from two perspectives. One was around, you know, creating like an asset from your business and that was sort of my big thing and it's something that's been on my mind recently anyway, because I've been transitioning my business to my online platform. And the other part of it was really our mindset and our stories, right? Like she was saying at the beginning, you know, the perception she had um via her upbringing of what successful people were and and that story that was told, and it's so true because, you know, those stories really do shape the way that we run our businesses, whether we even get into business in the first place and the impact that has that cascade. So the fact that she had some of those mindset stories and pre programming then to see where she's at now, like she's clearly done a lot of work on that, right, just on forget the business side of it, which is on the mind set piece as well.
Absolutely, That's I think why it's so expansive as well. And the exact thing that you just said was at the top of my little notes was about the negative connotations in the small town of someone who gets successful. And yeah, growing up with that and I think in Australia it's more readily called tall Poppy syndrome. Yes. And you know, I'm so self conscious of that. But on the flip side, it's funny because I've almost shielded myself from the community now to the point that if I'm doing all the things that I'm doing, I now don't have too much exposure to what people might be saying about me. So I'm just like, you know, it's a strange space to be, to starting to not care. And maybe that's the big step because all my life, I've really done things to please other people and keep other people happy.
But you know, in those last couple of years it's been big steps to now going, well, actually I need to do what's right for me rather than what's right for everyone else and too bad if they don't like it, you know? Yeah, I totally know. And yeah, 100% agree Australia does have that tall poppy syndrome. It's, it's definitely there. I've seen it in clients, I coach where it's almost a fear of success? Forget fear of failure. But it's just that fear of, oh my God, if I'm successful, what will people think will being successful change me and what will be my next goal if I already achieved everything that I want, but we do, we all have to work on our own mindset and break through those barriers, but then it's interesting because we have those fears, but then we look at other people in our networks that are really successful and we do admire them right? And we go, wow, like they've done really well and You're like, well they can do it, I can do it and it really is, it really is just the stories we tell ourselves and how much we listened to those stories.
So yeah, I think you know that shift I've noticed in my own business in the last 12 months from hiring Deanna to get in my course bill and ironically a milestone was this week she finishes up because the course is done and written and you know, we're now loading everything into Punjabi, we're doing the playbooks, we're doing the video scripts and within three months it's done and there is a part of me going, wow, okay, but what will people think um you know, so yeah, I think it's just a constant work in progress, but I find for me when I, when I feel those moments of what will people think I go back to, well what is it that I want to do and I want freedom, I want to be able to work on my business, not in my business. So I just constantly refocus myself why I'm doing this. Um hmm it's funny we've reached a very similar milestone at the same time because I've had most of my legally wires platform built out and the system hadn't allowed multiple currencies until last weekend and all of a sudden I've now put everything across to, I've put Australian dollars, new Zealand dollars, I've put british pounds, I've put indian rupee, I've put all the other, you know, the commonwealth countries because the US is not really my market but commonwealth countries all have a very similar legal system.
So it's finally there and it's all built and I've got this pre recorded webinar ready to launch and you know, so you and I have both got our online platforms to launch ability at the same time and we've come to it in very windy routes we have, yes, with the help of all the people we've spoken to on the podcast. That's right, that's right. And I didn't record much of it, but Caroline and I had a pretty deep conversation about the fear that led us up to doing online, an online business and you know hers launched in December of last year for November of last year. So she is 12 months ahead of both of us launching I suppose, but she also took 18 months or so to build it, but also get over the fear of, oh you know, what are people going to think of me?
This is different. I'm putting myself out there, all those fears that yeah, work through as we're doing it. Yeah. Oh God, there are so many. I'm doing brain training program at the moment where john Surratt, who I love german your leadership training And he's got a program which is called winning the game of fear. And it is amazing. It's 12 weeks and you listen to the same audio every day for seven days until you move to the next level and it's 12 levels. But yesterday's one which I'm on level two and he says, he says, because I want you to write down while you're listening to this audio, you know, what is it that you were scared? Like, what is that one thing that you're scared of in your business? What is that one thing? And I had like about 10. But anyway, that one that did one thing for me was that I put my heart and soul into this and then, and then no one's gonna want it and then I'm going to die and no one's going to see all my work. I'm not gonna be able to help anyone. And it is, it is a very irrational fear in the grand scheme of things because there's how many billion people and I'm sure it's going to get out there. But it just shows that we tell ourselves these stories that are very irrational.
And it's only until we actually challenge it and we write them down in terms of what they are. And then the other thing he does is he makes you find evidence to prove that story or not. So like where is that story come from? What is that evidence as it happened to you in the past? And it and it hasn't happened in the past. So there's no basis for it. It's not like I've ever launched this before and no one bought it. Like it's just a stupid, irrational story. Yes. But it's such a good program because it makes you get all of these fears out so that they're not swimming in your head and then once they're out you're just focused on the doing and being of service, which is what I want to do. So it's definitely something I'm working on at the moment. It's just removing some of these these these fears. Yeah. You need to give us all that link. I think that that's a good one to look at because I, we're coming back to the tall poppy. I think mine's more about the fear of it being successful than the fear of it being a failure. I'm afraid that I'm afraid of the criticism. I'll get from the legal industry.
I'm afraid that There will be 100,000 people in there and I won't be able to keep up with it and what does that mean? It means that there will be more staff, it'll mean that I'll have staff issues on in both businesses, it means that I'll have like I think that it means I'll have less freedom because I'll just be stuck to the grind of it all the time and I know that it's all the rational as well, but that's certainly the bigger fear for me is the consequences of it being successful rather than it being a failure. Yeah, Yeah, I hear you. Yeah. And whatever that is right, whether that's superior success, fear of failure, like everyone will have their own own fears of what they're doing. You know, whether that's fear that like you said, you know you're not going to get the freedom that you want, which is the reason that you're doing this. Yeah, that is yeah, that's the personal reason. But then you think about the bigger reason and it's not actually about me at all. Like if I remove myself from the fear and go, well the purpose of legally wise women is actually to fill a huge need and there are people who need it.
If you remove yourself, then the fear sort of goes away. It's so self centered, isn't it? No, you're so right because you know it's funny you say that because I was objectively looking like at this at the consent and it's been it's taken me 12 months to build this concept right and a 12-month 4th and I literally had to do this exercise where you you put on a different head. So you're not you when, like, effectively reading this, And it was the first time I felt I felt genuinely proud of what I've created, and I thought this content is really good. It's not out there, it's not replicated content, it's fresh, it's exciting, it's about the brain, it's about the heart, it's, like, freaking amazing. But that that feeling lasted seconds before it was replaced with all these fears, and I was like, just stop, just stop putting all these fears in and just actually, you know, savor the moment of, you know, enjoying what's being created and able to say that. And it was hard, it was hard to be able to admit that I'd actually created something that was really worthy.
So, yeah, it's it's just it's just our conditioning, isn't it? It's crazy. And the thing is if it was anyone else that had done it, I'd be like, wow, you're amazing, you've done this, it's such a good product, It's gonna work so well, you know, you're going to sell this, but you're right, it's the fact that we are in our own stories, and that's what I love about what it does is because he challenges that by saying, well, what is the evidence of that? And if there's no evidence, what he does is he makes you go back in time to go, where did that come from? Like, at what stage in your life were you that these stories started coming up for you. So he takes you on that journey so that you can rewrite that story. Pretty much. Yeah. Because so much of this stuff arises from early, early childhood, doesn't it? And it's it's not rational because it's a child's brain that comes to some conclusion from something that didn't even mean what you thought it meant. Yeah. And it's that whole self worth thing, isn't it as well? Whether we are worthy, like everyone else can do something amazing and be successful and create it.
But who are we to do that? You know? Like we should just be on the sidelines all the time and share other people on. But why should we actually create something of, of worthiness? Yeah. Well, here's to us. We're doing it. We're doing exactly. That's right now. It's the next step. So we have to keep each other accountable because we've built these amazing things. But we actually have to get out and sell them and and talk about them and talk about it because the benefit of both our programs is just it can be life changing. And so why wouldn't we be out there talking about it. Mm hmm. Absolutely. Mm hmm. The other thing that I love about carol lee is her permission that she gives herself to have so many interests and do so many different things and I just love that so much because in a way I'm I'm very similar. Like I, I'm curious and want to dive deep into so many tangent things and yet I keep telling myself no, stay in my lane, stay in my lane.
You know, so many people say that like just you trained in this, you're good at this. You've got skills in this just what are you doing bouncing around all over the place. But Carroll is a perfect example of, you know, she's remodeling to houses. She is um, developed cookbooks and she's spent hours and hours developing her own recipes and getting those photographed and then publishing books and then she's also built her practice and had it working for itself. And now she's doing the scalable business lounge as well, like a million things and she does them all well. Yeah. But it just shows that it can be done right. I think the trick there is not staying in the lane and how many things are you doing? But it's actually doing the things that spark you. And then if you're doing the things that spark you, then it's not hard work, is it? Mm hmm enjoyment. But again, if we go back to the stories, I know exactly what my story is for not doing that.
It would be that it would then be an excuse if my main business failed. Yeah. Right. That I would say to myself if they will, but they didn't invest everything of me in that one thing, which is not true. But carroll is an example. That story. Exactly, Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Made the firm work in a way that allows her to have the freedoms. Yeah, that's right. I guess you and I it's going to be a little baby steps, which means just even just doing things outside of working and actually having a freaking hobby and enjoying something else. You've been really good though. You've done your meditation thing, You're you're good. You do your sports, you are better. Yeah. I'm just like, so like tunnel vision with my thing at the moment. But okay. Yeah. You've done all that hard work now. You're right. And now you have to go, okay, Yes, I have to market it and nurture the people that are in it. But you now have to go, well there are other things. Well you've now got two pets.
So I know. I know, Yeah, you're right. It's just getting it out there, isn't it? I think we should interview, We should find someone and from a pr side to interview. You know, I think that's the next phase of the journey that you and I are from our guests. Any pr agencies out there call us, help us overcome our fear of not wanting to shine our light. Mm hmm. Yeah, It's funny fascinating. Looking back over the guests and the stages where people have been at and some have sort of come along on their journey with us in growing their businesses at the same time. Other times we've tapped into the people that we've needed at the right moments. So you're right we'll have a look around for some marketing agent marketing and pr people. But you know what I did do that in the last two weeks I actually opened up a crypto wallet and invested. Oh yeah right so that's something I did do, took action on something. Right? Yeah.
Quite exciting. That is cool. Um Yeah because we were going to do like try and learn trading next year. That's right yeah I'm still wanting to commit to that. What I'm looking around for actually is the I. S. X. Has a game that they allow you to play I think it's once a quarter and they give you a fake $30,000 and let you play in. Yeah in a game scenario. So yeah we should have a go at that a few times next year and then start using real money. I've just gone in with real money because you know what I would have liked Fomo If I turn the fake 30 into something like 120 and then I'll be crying that it's not real right through that I'm just going to do my own money. Yeah but you know what it's made me actually learn and so it's true like you know it's pushed me out of my zone but I'm I've done it now, so yeah, I think, you know, it's incredible that people we've interviewed and we're for sure it's like impact from what we do and how we do things, yep, big time.
Big time. So yeah, well, we want to hear from our audience about what they heard from Karelia and how much, um, you know, our discussion around our fears relates to, you know, how people relate to that. That would be good to think there's so much of it that we either aren't aware of or don't talk about enough. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think everyone goes through these things and, you know, we just need to bring more attention to it and people know that they're not alone. Like for God's sakes, I'm a coach. I'm talking about my fears right? Like everyone has them, you're not immune to them. Mm hmm. It's just raising awareness. Doing something about it and taking action. Yes. Yes, Absolutely. So we will post this on I Q meets eq dot com dot au. We posted on linkedin. So, comment there. We've got links in the show notes that show up on your podcast feed and brush where can people find you? Yeah, I'm an eq dot academy. Wonderful. And what you've got a sales page or join the program.
Things there is and I just rebranded the website. So actually it will just transition over into the new color scheme, look and for your next week to coincide with the launch. So wonderful. Good. Well, let me know what you need from me to support you and all that. That's fantastic. Yeah, it's exciting. Yes, very much so. And you can contact me Jackie at legally wise women dot com dot au. So, um, yeah, another fortnight's interview. What's happening for you for the next fortnight or so. So For me, it's just working on a little bit more of the supporting content that's on the platform and I've got about 15 videos to record that need to be loaded as well. So I'm just going to be going over the scripts for those. So yeah, just a little bit of content creation for the next few weeks for me. Wonderful. A little bit more polishing the details, mm hmm. What is it? It's november now, isn't it?
Wow. I've got I've finally got my staff my full staff development day in the next two weeks because we usually have it in july. Excellent. So it's been pushed back and pushed back four times. So it's finally happening in the next two weeks. So it'll be good to get the full team together because we've all been, you know, splinted and working at home and we're getting our photographers coming along to do some fresh professional shots on these. Yeah, do you remember we had Tara on our podcast, it might have been even 18 months ago. So Tara is coming along to do half day training and then a couple of other things in the afternoon, so a lot of team building stuff would be great. Oh you're going to have so much fun and it's just going to be energized everyone, isn't it? Time to kick off for the new year? Yeah, absolutely, and particularly because the weather is feeling good and it and by the time we have that it's only like six weeks till christmas and so everyone has that jubilant kind of energy.
Yes, Yeah, I just love this time of year and I can't wait to play christmas carols all day, every day. Exactly. In the blows of like food and drinks. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, I'm feeling pretty good. It's great. Alright, well hope to hear from people and they will catch you in a fortnight. Catch you later guys. Thanks Jackie, thank you. Yeah. Mhm mhm