Yo what is up guys, welcome back to the live transform podcast. I'm your host, Sean Cobra over the last couple of weeks I've been bringing to you some of my best of editions I brought to you. The Coach's Corner edition followed by the client corner edition followed by the health and fitness principles edition. During this episode. We we are going through the military mindset and mental health editions. So some of my favorite conversations that I had with my guests of 2021. In the first part of this episode, I talked to Swiss eight, which is a proactive mental health program designed by veterans initially for veterans To schedule in eight pillars of health and wellness which are sleep, nutrition, time management, discipline, fitness, personal growth, mindfulness and minimalism. All right here we are with Adrian Sutter and Anthony Mixner of Swiss eight. So that's where we're at. We've got a lot of new programming coming up, um shooting stuff, a lot of meditation, sleep on or beat stuff that will be out in the next few weeks. Um, there's a few bigger projects we can't go into.
All of them are big focus this year is it's heavily researched back. We've gotta study on at the moment in partnership with Newcastle Uni for anyone who is, I know you've got an international audience at the moment. We're just recruiting Australian military veterans if you've transitioned out anytime from 1990 I think it is onwards. Um Swiss eight dot org slash research. You can sign up for the trial. It's in its simplest form. It is using the app for eight weeks and tracking your mood every day. Um and there's a bunch of finding details that the psych researcher at Newcastle Uni will go into when you register, but that's a big focus at the moment. And then later in the year, we have another research partnership which is a little bit classified at the moment. We're building a tech product that will change the face of mental health across the planet. Um it's using algorithms, machine learning, a bunch of data points that will be funneling in through the app to, I don't know, it's just gonna be, it'll be it's gonna be really good watch this space.
Well, Yeah, cool. Um so what's the, what's the vision for Swiss eight over the next couple of years? Like, what's the, what's the direction you guys are moving in? I mean, our end state is to build tech products that allow people to live life without falling into fucking pits of depression and anxiety. We are well on the way to to being a big player in that space and that is our goal, three year goal is to get this research, this tech based research done, get it out to everybody around Australia veteran community. First, I mean, the app itself is open to the public now and then eventually to the world. Um and that, that will become the foundation of what suicide is and then makes his big focus at the moment is coordinating a lot of the events because I'll let max go into more detail, but there is in the, in the tax base like everyone's tried it facebook twitter instagram, social networking was originally designed to connect people in the digital age.
Unfortunately without in person physical connection, we are fucked. I mean it's made the world worse, realistically connecting the world digitally has disconnected everyone physically. So we were acutely aware of that everything we're building in the tax base needs to be followed up with phase two of how do we get people connected physically? How do we get them outdoors living life through these principles? Personal growth is a massive one and that's what a lot of these events are going to be based around is finding ways to get people together doing ship that they've never done before learning you finding your hobbies learning new skills and the object is not to create another er So for a activity yeah, veterans are there like people, they're like fingerprints, they're all different and the 3.5 1000 years, those would continue to balloon to how many millions of people on the planet because everybody is different and they like to integrate and do things slightly differently using events where instead of doing that, bringing people together digitally, bring them together in a in a contract where they can form new circles learn new skills and build a new tribe around something that they are interested in.
So we've got the fink desert race, which is motocross big enduro race for two days. Getting veterans who were ex vehicle mechanics to come and be the vehicle mechanics, getting X cooks, get the army cooks in, like come on mate, you're cooking dinner, get the boys in, anyone that's that's really focused on, they love motorbikes and stuff like that. Bang, we're going to do an event for that the next like we've got to Sydney to Hobart people who like sailing, we're going to teach them to sail um properly rigor boat. There's going to be a pretty, we were finalizing it all, but we've got some spots in the Sydney to Hobart on one of the boats and will um it'll be a month long lead up training so these guys are gonna have to get selected to come and jump on and be on one of the boats for the Sydney to Hobart stuff like this, where we can build a tribe and get people out there digitally connected. We can keep them together and they can build a new community and find a new identity outside of defense. That's not that's not weird. Um not forced, it's not forced and it's not these weird like hey, we're gonna do like I don't wanna like funk it, like it's not like painting for therapy or something, it's like where boys are like, I'm not gonna fucking sure there might be an option, but it's, it's activities where people like, hang on, that kind of looks like a bit of fun, like you're dead right.
And that's what we're trying to get challenging, challenging. It's got to be challenged. You've got to be. I mean, the big exciting part is that we're not doing all this in isolation either. Were collaboration between other ex service organizations and charities is high on our kind of radar. We don't, there is a big problem, especially in Australia. I'm not sure what it's like in other countries, but the broken veterans story came about, there's too many ex service organizations and they all compete for what they think is a small funding pool and therefore they've got to tell the story to the world that veterans are broken, give us more money created, infighting ESAs will hate each other and that is a big fucking problem. Um, so us working with other organizations ourself, for example, um, me and sweaters and a few of the boys and members of the local RsL as well, that's an ex service organization organization that we're trying to bring together to to be part of these events. Um, whether I think I'm not sure, but definitely with the sailing stuff and then internationally, I mean, the boys from heads up and fighting minds. I mean that it's not across the line yet, but collaborating with other ex service organizations, I think is a fucking that is the model that we have to adopt.
Um, we can't everyone from the military has some form of hero complex buried away in their psyche somewhere. Everyone wants to save the world. There's a lot of people out there now spooking the or pretending they've got all the answers to everything and they just realistically want to be the face that everyone looks at and goes, hey, they solved all the problems. That's not how it works. The only way forward in this entire, the only way to solve this problem is by organizations working together, sharing information, building products together that fucking solve problems. Um, so that's a big part of our vision of the future and make this isn't bespoke to veterans. This isn't a veteran problem. These these these these are all problems that society we, I think veterans have had the lion's share of exposure to suicide. Yes. The numbers are high. I'm not disagreeing with that. But I think these same principles are for society and without you could do this podcast and drop off the veteran peace and it's completely palatable and makes perfect sense to any person.
Any demographic on the planet. The principles don't change because you went in the army because you wore one uniform or the other. Um, I think they were just polarized and exacerbated, You know, leaving the military, you know, your your mate chip and your tribe and stuff like that is probably more so. But there's other areas. I think it's it's got utility across every aspect and field of life. Mm hmm. Absolutely, man. And I like what you said before about the cooperation between the different organizations. I think that is super important, man. And it's fucking critical because you know, no one organization can cover all of the bases. You know, again, everything is a tool and you know, instead of investing your time, energy and effort into covering specific topics and certain things, someone else has already fucking doing that. Just work with them to you know, push that over line and we should be complimenting each other. All of these different veteran organizations should be complimenting each other and we're all working towards the same thing. Like, you know, both you boys have been in Afghanistan.
You know, it's like, you know, everyone has a role. You've got your fucking infantry soldiers, you've got your snipers, you've got your engineers, you've got your mortars, you've got your signal as you've got your cavalryman. You've got you know, all of these different roles, all of these different responsibilities and everyone brings something to the table and together they work as a fucking team to achieve the mission. I think that's absolutely critical and something that has been missing unfortunately in the veteran space and and this is why I'm really happy to be working with you guys because you guys think like that as well and you know, I've been asked to be involved with a couple of other organizations as well and um you know, I see all the infighting and I see um everyone's kind of going up against each other and butting heads and you know, trash talking other organizations and ship like that and I just don't want to be a part of that. I want to be a part of the veteran community that are working together to solve these problems that not only veterans are going through but the wider community as well. 100% mate. And I think that is fairly similar across our circle of mates. No one's really got time to get in the fucking mud fights and to throw shade at each other. I mean we've had, there's certain politicians out there that don't really like our attitude towards life and things and, and, and people, there is other organizations to throw mud and I think especially with social media these days it's so easy to get caught in the, hey, I'm going to spend today responding to all this ship or I could spend today focusing on the projects that I've been working on for the last five years and I think that's where we're going to stick to it and that is the mentality of yourself, all of our mates.
It's like if we want to achieve big things, then we're going to cop some haters next up in the episodes a great conversation I had with Simon maloney who's one of my mates and also a former sniper of the british military, I was a former sniper of the Australian army, we had a great discussion about everything that we had to do to pass that course as well as some of the things that we learned from basic training and how those skills and disciplines then carried over to being able to operate under duress in Afghanistan and on other deployments. Um Simon was awarded the conspicuous gallantry Cross for actions under fire in Afghanistan by her majesty, the Queen of England. And in this part of the conversation we discussed the events and the circumstances that led up to and occurred during those actions under fire 2013, you went there as a sniper now talk to me about your role on that deployment. Yes, so we were something called the brigade reconnaissance Force short abbreviated BRF essentially there was a bit of a selection to do that to get into that role before you went on the operation.
So if you'd like to say it was not the best soldiers but the guys who are a bit more motivated and wanted to leave their units to go and do it. So um a lot of us went into that and essentially we stayed in the main camp camp bastion, so he had better living living conditions, wifi food gyms, that sort of thing. But our main role was to launch on time sensitive information or intelligence or specific intelligence on, on what the taliban were up to with in Helmand province. So if there was a patrol base who was getting particularly, you know smashed or having a hard time of it, we'd look into it and realize that say there's 30 foreign fighters in the town down the road, we'd go and land by helicopter and raid that town. So every time we went out and got dirty or you know, when we were out on patrol, we went out and had an effect on the enemy. So it's a very rewarding job. You know, how many times have you been out on an eight hour patrol and nothing's happened and your fucking tired, You're, you're you're hungry and you're knackered and you're not really seen anymore. It was just nothing happened that day. Every time we went out, we haven't, we acted on, we're either taking munitions off them and denying them or we were actually whacking the taliban and getting involved.
So it was a very rewarding job and a good job to have an afghan. Mm hmm. Nice. Let's transition four July two 1013. Yes, So fourth of july um, my last operation before we come home in our two weeks R and R I stupidly made a joke that morning as the last one. What front of us get hit and they're all like, why did you say that? And so you're not really, you're not superstitious, are you a nighttime raid? So we left at like one in the morning landed at three and essentially we're going to clear an area called Jack chow, which had supposedly been cleared by the afghan army the week before, but we knew it was a hot spot and we knew they probably hadn't cleared it because they didn't report many casualties and we knew this place was a fucking hellhole, Like we knew we were going to fight. So you landed at three and then we sort of inserted and encircled um and waiting for the sun to come up as soon as that for us, we weren't allowed to kick doors down until until daylight. So first light we go straight through the door and the aim there was to sweep through myself with, with, with the sniper grouping, we were gonna sort of picked up, looked on the map, so exactly where I wanted to go, when you go in this building here, it's perfect range, it was elevated.
Um I felt like it was well defendable. Everything felt good. I was completely happy with the plan. I wouldn't have changed. I mean, even hindsight, I wouldn't have changed the plan to be honest with that particular operation, with the intelligence that you had. Yeah, for sure, man, Yeah, exactly, that, yep, yep. So uh as the sun's kind of cresting shots start ringing out. Yeah, so straight away as soon as the sun come up, we started getting sporadic fire. So we knew that was gonna happen, right? We knew you was gonna be a fight. The issue was we've we've gone in and encircled Jack Child. So you'd be you know, you'd be forgiven you like cordoned off cordoned off the outside for sure, facing in, so you'd be forgiven for thinking that behind you was relatively safe. So you know, I'm looking to face inwards, cover the guys going in and start getting sporadic fire from behind us where we've just been straight away. There's an issue there because they've obviously just either outflanked us or out encircled us or why they're doing that, why they're not defending what we're clearing, essentially looking, looking back what happened is I'd set up on a building called Old schoolhouse which was like the Taliban schoolhouse where they teach their teachings to two young kids madrasa.
Yeah, all of that sort of stuff. Sharia law, that type of thing. And it's a bit of a symbolic building to them. That as well as we know sort of with terrorist culture or especially with the Middle East snipers aren't like snipers are seen as assassins. They're not muslim law. So that sort of within warfare, snipers aren't called dudes, they're they're high priority targets because we're not seen and then we kill people essentially that isn't it? You know, you know, when a sniper comes out on the ground in afghan to do one thing and one thing only it's not the hand up biscuits and water. So seeing a sniper on the roof of my own fault. Again, probably again an elevated position with, with the building being such a cultural interest, it was obvious where I was and it's not too hard to see. We had good cover there. But yeah, looking back maybe, maybe that was a bit too over. Um, and we, we started to get sporadic fire. Um, nothing to worry about. We were holding it fine. Um, and there was a dicker who was with it would take 240 m out, which, you know, as you know, with the sniper rifles, not much at all.
Um, but he didn't have a weapon. He was definitely dicking us. So I asked permission to shoot or to to engage him and we weren't under enough fire to shoot. The rules of engagement were under said stated that we can't shoot Vickers k no dramas. That's people that are spotting and passing on information, things like that for people that are listening, Dicker is essentially an afghan with binoculars around his neck and the radio and he's not there. He's not there to do anything other than core positions. This is one of those times where as we went in, women and Children left. So, you know, anyone left inside the town is, is bad. You know, he's there for a fight or he's there to cause you problems or issues, He's not, you know, the women and Children left, which means the taliban. No, this is going to be a hairy day. Yeah. So yeah, I've asked to engage him that's not happened. Uh and then the boys, I mean, it was just jogging as normal. The plan stays right, this this is afghan, you're gonna get, yeah, let's let's just pause there for a moment because um, you know, you fucking know that that dude is there observing your location, passing on information and trying to get a gauge of where all of the, like your forces are the coalition forces, right?
So that he can pass that information on to other people who can coordinate an attack, right? Just because they don't have a fucking weapon. It doesn't mean that that they're not, you know, they're not fucking hostile, operating against you. They're not hostile. Exactly. So, um just for people at home that are listening, it's like, you know, we do have rules of engagement, But man, like some of these guys have been there for a long time fighting for a long time. They know the rules of engagement. So they're going to bend the rules or they're going to work those rules to their advantage whenever they can. And, you know, man, as soon as you go into a location atmospherics deteriorate all the women and Children fucking you know, get out of there, you know, that every single fighting age male that's there is there for a fucking fight. They're trying to kill someone For sure man. They know what they're doing. They know that you say about the rules of engagement, they know them better than we do. They know exactly our rules of engagement. I've seen guys put weapons down behind a wall turnout, you know, walk out in front of us literally in plain sight within 100m, I can hear what he's saying and his weapons behind the wall.
Um and we can we can we can no longer we can no longer engage them because if we do, we've now fucking killed an unarmed civilian for sure. It's going to the environment. It got to the point where we have something called X spray that we would spray on someone's hands because when we got come under fire we'd get to a point where we were just about to assault the position and all they do is check the weapons or hide them and then run away. Then they'd walk out the bushes 10 minutes later and walk past us as if nothing had ever happened and where now we're on the position. So you'd say, hey, come here and he'd say, well, you know, I'm just a farmer or whatever. So we spray this expert on his hands and it would come up that they spray and different colors, different colors that you you know that he'd been firing a rifle and the carbon on his hands and the chemicals that was one way of proving, but this is how blatant they'd be because they know our rules of engagement better than we do. They know them inside and out and they'd play us to that. So this is this is where we're at. I'm now looking at this guy a lot. I'm trying to see if I can see just the tip of the weapon pointing and over the top of that. You know, again, observation coming in here from the sniper's course. Um, not exploiting the rules of engagement at all.
But applying them with them with minute detail is what I'd say turns out we didn't get of course, you know, you know that, you know that dude's fucking hostel, you're just looking for something, something, something incriminating. So you can be like, all right, let's take that dude outlets fucking reduce their capability. Yeah, for sure. I'm looking to lawfully kill him. I'm not looking to unlawfully kill him, but I'm at war. And when he fits the rules of engagement, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take him out. Yeah. So like I said, we didn't get that. And hey, the operation goes on, this is just my little, my little bubble on my corner of this operation. So the bigger the bigger picture as everyone cracks on and they did and it's almost as if they got just outside their own weapons range. So as in our guys were just out of the way that they couldn't cover where I was. Um and, and we got hit, we got hit hard on on my corner. 15 firing points is what's reported when we look back at the footage and stuff like that, which is pretty fucking allowed me when it's you, that's a heavy rate of fire.
It it sounded sounded sounded pretty loud like I didn't know what was going on, I couldn't hear Ash who was right next to me, I couldn't hear what he was saying, couldn't hear what I was saying. Um And you just, you just what you do in that situation man, you just want the world to swallow you up mm hmm, mm hmm. So what happens then you're returning fire, you're on the radio, you're reporting this higher. Yeah correct. So I'm on the radio and trying to get a grip of the situation. One of the boys, ash had a machine gun, he starts rattling off of that and as you know, my five round magazine in the bolt action sniper rifle is not good for anything in a sustained contact like that. Um two minutes in the red fires picked up and then bang, I hear ash almost like split second before sort of the beginnings of the word fuck I believe around fist in front of his face and then straighten plowed straight into my neck. So in one side or the other. Um and it was like someone just set the reset button on me. I've been hit by lightning and it was like sort of windows fail.
I'm a bit like, what the fuck? Um That shot sent you sprawling across the roof and then you ended up on the ground on your feet talking about that. We'll tell my listeners that story. The were getting shot at hard. I've just been hit, instant reaction is one of the kinetic energy of being hit has thrown me a little bit and I just rolled, it, just rolled it and rolled. It just rolled with my rifle, which is to get the funk off that roof, fall off the roof. We're talking about 10 ft high here. So I would have done myself some damage and I land on my feet and I'm like, how the fund has managed that. Two seconds later, I can just hear like a really like piercing scream and look turn around and I've landed on a baby goat. So this goat's got snapped in half and all four legs sprawled out and it's, you know, innocently trying to graze some food and 100 kg meathead comes plowing down from the roof absolutely ends. It's sucking day. But all you can do after that for the rest of this day is the screaming of the goat. And it's, it's like, it's the one thing that haunts me from the day I said it before. It's the one thing that haunts me from that day is that fucking goat just so innocent, bless it and here we are, life.
Life throws 100 kilometer that you sometimes? So you land, you've landed on your feet, you've been fucking shot, you killed a goat on the way down and you're like, what the fucked did I just get shot? Like, there's blood coming out, like, what's going through your mind? Yeah, so I think instantly, mate, I'm dead. I think, I think you get shot in the throat, I believe you got two minutes to live. I believe if that juggler gets hit the main artery, um I'm breathing and then I said, I'm breathing and I was like, well, I'm sucking talking, so I'm not a medical expert? And I'm especially not when I'm panicking, I can feel the two holes in my neck, blood is pissing out. And also, you know, the Camelback hydration pipe, the hydration things had on your back. One of the pipes had had, had had taken either shrapnel or bullet. So that has been severed on my on my on my body armor. So I've got water pissing down my chest, which I obviously can't see, and I believe his blood. So I'm like, this is sparking heavy, like, looked up ash and I'm like, how bad is it?
And he's a strong man Cooney and he's got a strong Mancunian accent. He's like, May and I'm like, yeah, cheers mate, like, how bad is it? I need medical words now, is it pissing what? And he's like, that's straight through your fucking neck and I'm like yeah it is, I've got to get something more from you here man, I'm starting to panic. He was great and the fact that he wasn't panicking too much, he was more giggling to be honest. I know this sounds really unprofessional but it's like that dark humor. People laughing, contact people laughing situation. Especially like idiots soldiers who are like you know pack mentality. You think it's funny right? You're like fucking crack thump and you're like oh funk. That one was close. Yeah where's it coming from? Meanwhile you've got middle parting, your hair has been centered, you're laughing about it but hey that's how we cope and that's how we get through it. But he sort of made me feel a little bit better. Um And then I was sort of I just imagine that was on borrowed time right? You know if I'm gonna die, I'm gonna go out with a bang. Um This is what we did, this is what we are trained to do.
This is why I wanted to come back out after my first tour. You know all the casualties we took. So it's time to fight. You know you you you want to get out there, you know we want to do is go to africa and this is it, you know you've got put your money where your mouth is so get aggressive, get up, get punching. Um And that's what we did for a couple of minutes. Um a couple of minutes of pure panic. A couple of minutes of hard fighting, A couple minutes of not knowing what the farc was going on because I'm trying to gather where these positions are. I went out to a doorway and there was about three or four taliban within 100 m of that doorway about to punch in. I'm with a bolt action rifle. I've got, we had a camera crew with us again, codes. I'll get you on the footage after this actually, yeah, I've got a camera crew with me who who at first weren't being very helpful. They're just trying to film me and I'm like, how about you drop the camera and get that rifle up because they're throwing grenades over the wall. You start putting some rounds. Downrange bucket. Yeah, Fox sake. So then I did have five minutes of panic and real fear, real fear, real, real acceptance that I was going to die.
I thought I was dead. You know, I won't lie to you. I thought I've got a couple of minutes here. So we went out with him trying to go out with a bang and I'm panicking and what's that going to do if I fucking pilot? You know, he's got to deal with the firefighter's gotta deal with me five minutes in the medic comes running through the door. He in actual fact has heard me say on the radio, the personal radio and without even asking the groups the group and he was with he just went blossom off so has been shot and he started running and the boss is getting over the main radio but he's heard it on the P. R. R. And we just started running I believe it was about four or 500 m four kit 40 50 degrees Celsius through taliban firing points. He's running past the taliban assuring me. So they must have turned around and looked and being like what the is this another? Yeah he came straight in and cracked his classic joke. Every day is a legs day because he was a P. T. I. C. Train us physically before we went out to deployment and he was always hammering our legs. But every day the legs day was completely calm, looked at me and said straightaway I've got it I've got you he's like don't disclose is fine and for me mate after that no panic this is like I said the man next to you you know is a good caliber.
He says it it's done it's so for me mate there genuinely was not a panic after that. He said I was fine. Um Asher Hadash next to me to go on a machine gun a couple minutes afterwards got in the rest of the section got in so all sorry for the for the guys who aren't military. The rest of the soldiers that I was covering came back and then we took over that compound, took over the building, started breaking down our, started dishing out target indications started getting the fire back and you know from we mentioned earlier, copes you had the worst days of your life and the best days of your life that day. I went from probably one of the worst moments of my life to one of the best moments of my life. The rest of that day was awesome man. That's what we went out to the afghan to do. We have an awesome firefight, we fucking you know, did some damage, we got a good scrap and with all these boys that just that, you know, I look around and with all these guys who are the ultimate professionalism at the highest level they're going to operate at absolutely killing it, being brave and you know, and just getting getting aggressive because one of the boys has been hit and it was me and you know, to experience that there's not many humans that do experience that, there's not many soldiers that potentially experience that especially, you know, now guys, we're not deploying as much, very privileged to have felt that level of that high.
You know, it's almost like I said, it's like a drug the next part of the episode is wes masters view of what unfolded on that same day wes was the medic that ran across taliban firing points and open ground loaded down by equipment on a very hot day to come to the aid of Simon maloney who was shot in the throat by a taliban sharpshooter for wes's actions on that day he was awarded the military cross by her majesty, the Queen of England had a great conversation with Wes about all things military, um, and how these events impacted him. The conversation did get a little bit dark, there was talk of suicide. Um, there was talk of mental health issues, anxiety, depression, pTSD, etcetera. It was a great conversation, if anyone's interested in learning more about what goes on in a soldier's mind after coming back from war. This was a great conversation which I'll have linked in the show notes, but I was just in my process, you know, I was like disciplined and and and training hard and yeah, there's that saying isn't there?
It's better to be ready for an opportunity and not have one to, than to have an opportunity and not be ready. So, um, I was ready as far as I was young and I was fucking hungry to get out there and do it all again. So, and it was, it was a good gig, You know, the brigade reconnaissance was, is a good gig, like you go out and you know, you're always going to go out and have some kind of effect on the enemy rather than just dominate the ground. So, um, yeah, that was how it came into being and just pause there for a second so we can explain that too, just so we can explain that to the listeners. So the br br f like you guys were pretty much like based at the base, was it bastian? You guys were right or another base? Yeah. Camp bastion. Yeah and then you guys would like getting get intelligence that you know there's a key leader in a specific area is going to be there for a certain period of time. Alright sweet. This is a time sensitive mission. We need to jump on the helicopters, we need to get out, we need to get boots on the ground, we need to coordinate off, we need to we need to get this dude like tonight let's rock and roll. So you roll out helicopters.
Do you think get back on helicopters back to camp bastion, grab a feed, get a good night's sleep, fucking do it all again, get ready. Always be prepared. Yeah mate, it was exactly that and that's that's fucking glory, right? That's what you you sit there playing call of duty and and and there you are, you're doing it and you know it's it's I'm not gonna lie, it was not a bad job to do and you know it's like you you gear up, you do like a two day intelligence cycle where you really just psych up, go over the plan, over the plan, you're part of the plan, your job. Where do you sit in the plan, whether you sit on the ground in in relation to others and and stuff and you go through it and then and then I would, you know from my little corner of the sky, I would train the guys up on some new medical procedure. And it's quite ironic because right before that op um I was training the guys up. I'm we linked up with the green Berets that were over on the other side of camp bastion, over in the the american side. So linked up the green Berets medic. And we were just like, fuckinwith our blokes, basically. And I was like, what? It was like, what can I make my guys do?
And then he was like, what can I make my guys do? And you know, there's no nasal pharyngeal tubes. There's the airway basically. If you put an airway in someone who goes in your nose, basically like the width of your little finger, I had them putting them in my fucking in my blokes. Um which is jokes because it's a horrible feeling that's like getting that truly feels like getting fucked in the nose. Um But basically, yeah, and but but basically, right before that up, I did this thing called a surgical crack or surgical critical thyroidectomy, which basically means you slashed this little membrane in your in your throat here. If all this is mangled and you don't really have an airway to work with you slash a little thing here, put a tube in and magic, you can breathe. And I was teaching the guises and Simon was like, I would rather fucking die than have that done to me. And it's quite funny because we went on the upper cut a few days later and I was literally have my crank kit right there because he's just been entry and exit here. I'm like, I'm gonna have to crack this guy.
I know I'm gonna have to crack him because he's not, he's not bleeding out, he's bleeding, but one bleeding out. And I thought that airway is fact and it's gonna, I'm gonna, I sat there and I was like, looking at it, just thinking I'm coming for you, I'm coming for you. Um but yeah, it was, it was quite funny and he knew, I said, let's, let's pause there for a little bit. Let's pause there for a little bit because we've obviously skipped a lot of stuff um, which Simon and I have covered in another podcast. So I'll have that linked in the show notes if anyone wants to go back and listen to Simon's side of the story where he gets shot in the throat falls off a roof, lands on a goat kills it thinks he's like, got a couple minutes left to live and then like all of a sudden you're then you're there next to him and he's like what the funk, where'd you just come from? So you know you guys obviously step out um you're on helicopters, you get inserted, you start patrolling in towards the target compound, um snipers are up on in an Overwatch position um you guys you know a few rounds start kicking off and then you hear over the radio Simon's been shot, what's going through your mind?
Yeah yeah it pretty much happened exactly like that so um I'm I'm I'm over in a in a different cluster of compounds because we moved out and um and gone on to a different objective when I'm just there because that's where most of the blokes are, right, so I'm where most guys can get hit, I'm there and I didn't think the snipers get whacked um that's not a slide jab but um yeah and and basically yeah I was with two of my blokes got shot, two of my blokes in my four man team got shot bro, so it was always a bit of a joke in in our teams as well was like we don't going out with codes. Yeah be careful the last two have been shot. Yeah well you know what like on a serious note that was an amazing podcast to listen to because he said so much stuff that I'd never heard him say, you know and it was incredible to hear and maybe very emotional mate to to hear him say it and and hear from his perspective. Um And obviously I will always know my perspective, so I'm hoping I can have some kind of a similar impact on him and some of the other guys, but yeah, so I've got to him and or I've heard heard he's been hit.
So yeah, I've got my my my kind of like radio on, which is like short distance radio and yeah, one of the machine gunner that was with him has just gone size. I've got a butcher the accent, so I'm not gonna bother. But he was just a strong Mancunian guy and he was like, so I've just been whacked in the neck and um yeah, so I've heard that and I'm taking a knee with with the the section commander or one of the section commanders that was there and he he had a lot of kit on, right? So he was weighed right down. Um I mean I was carrying 65 kg and I swear he was in excess of that. Um And he was fit as well, Fijian guy. Um And yeah, it's just come over the radio, everyone's heard it, right? So everyone's just like just as a contact coming on us, I'm like funk this like okay yeah, just make my way back and it was I guess maybe from planning like where it was like constantly like okay, well we're gonna be here, we're gonna be here, we're gonna be here if something happens, I'm just gonna get to you, right?
I'm just gonna get up and I'm gonna go um And the boys knew I was fit enough, I was one of the fittest in the in the squadron, right? So they knew I was I could I could make it and um yeah, to do it in a contact though was probably not wise, but and certainly out of the S. O PS right? And that was where probably looping back to me being a mischievous little prick, is that if I didn't see the reason behind the rule, which obviously is a clear very reason because if I got hit, we'd all be fucked. Um But yeah, so like I just got up and I was like, all right, well I either get to him in two minutes or he's gonna die. So that was it. I just got up and just you've said this, you said this a couple of times, man in this podcast, bro, you're like, I back myself, It came out right there and then mate and like, I'm sure size, super grateful for that and I'm sure you're grateful for that and how it turned out, man, I'm going to back myself, I'm gonna run 300 m weighed down with 65 kg and whatever, like 50 degree heat to get to my mate who's just been shot in the throat.
Yeah, exactly. And you know like there was no specific thing that I've done in the past where I'd run with that kit to know that I could do that. But you know, I'd fucking done other stuff and you know, it was either make it or don't make it and yeah, it just just got up did it? Um got to him and and I'm presented with this injury. That doesn't make fucking logical sense because he's got an entry and an exit and they both look the same. So I didn't know the entry exit and the whole time I thought, okay, well he's been hit with some fragments pinned in front of him and it split and got on in either side. That's the only logical explanation because you know, he's talking and he's not catastrophically bleeding. So what, what is going on here? And yeah, basically just just made up of bluff dressing because I wanted to get pressure on the bleeding, but you can't get pressure on the bleeding because I would have occluded his airway. So I just fucking looked at my kid and I was like, what the funk am I gonna do with this?
And pulled out some sniper tape pulled out, addressing, caught it up so there was a couple of pads, then taped them the width apart. I wanted to have and then use the elastic from those from those dressings to get it round. So that essentially the dressings kind of brought it out a little bit and I could get a little pressure on but I did spend quite a bit of time with my fingers in his neck and that's a constant joke that I've had a finger and a thumb inside him. I love that. I love the that's something I miss actually is like the military human man like it gets pretty dark right? Like I've laughed I've laughed through you know some of the most boring fucking mundane things that like people would be like that's not even funny why you're laughing at that. But then I just laughed at some of the like most stupid ridiculous things where you should be fucking like fearful for your life. You know those bullets whizzing around you and you know you can hear the crack of the of the bullet whizzes by your head man, the dirt being kicked up around you and you're like laughing with your mate on funk that's close.
But yeah mate, on on a more serious note that there isn't really a higher answer that I can give here. Like in terms of how I felt like I didn't feel anything, I just felt like there was a job and I had to do the job so I head down, got the job done and I didn't feel anything, I didn't feel scared, I didn't feel anxious, I didn't feel nervous, I didn't feel overconfident. I just was like okay here's what I need to do and just quickly had a plan in my head or here's here's what I'm gonna do, okay, I'm going to do it. Um There's been other times don't get me wrong where in fact later that day where I was doing something and I thought I'm gonna die, I'm definitely gonna die. I'm gonna die. Like literally if we go down there, I'm gonna die and which you will be able to relate to, right, you go down a certain alley and you think I'm not going to see the other side of this. Um But yeah, on that day and that moment that just was it just all clicked. It made sense and I was just fucking making it up as I went along if I'm being quite honest. And um when I just thought you're not going to die, I was like you're not going to die. But that crikey get might might be coming for you.
Um And you know, he was at ease and like the good thing about some medics get real in their little pigeon hole in their corner that they're the most important thing, what they do is the most important thing and stuff. But I could see the big picture, right? I was like, we need our sniper back because our walls are about to get overrun and I'm about to be on Al Jazeera with my head held up, right? So like I um yeah, I was like maybe are you good and and he was itching to get back in the firefight. I was having a hard time to keep him with me, right? So um like in the end I was like right, I need to make something that's gonna last. um and then how badly can things go wrong in 3-5 minutes? I was like go go go get back up there fucking kill someone and come back and see me. And and yeah and and that was exactly how it worked and because it was so hot because the like they were they were literally from all sides trying to get over the walls and ship um Like I couldn't get him extracted for 90 minutes and and that was a long time to have a casualty for really, especially a casualty that's that's like that side of the golden hour bro.
Yeah, so um so that was that was from a medical perspective because I thought I've not really done you have that right? You do something special. But at the moment and and for like a year later you're just like I don't really do anything. That was fun. Yeah, I did what I would have done any other time. I didn't really do anything that special. But the hospital made a big deal of it and that was probably played into me getting the emcee was because the the 2nd 2nd in command of the squadron got pulled aside by the surgeons and said whoever that fucking medic was like, they need to be recognized for that because that was outrageous when really I was sucking made it up. Yeah, that's funny man. Like it's you just, it's like something's come up right, like, alright, here's a problem, I need to provide a solution and I'm just gonna do whatever is necessary right now and figure it out along the way man, you know, and luckily things worked out in your favor and in Simon's favor and you know, for the benefit of the entire troop that you know, you got there, you were able to patch him up, get him back in the fight to, you know, then start sucking taking dudes out and eliminating threats man.
Like that's incredible bro. And you know, I understand exactly where you're coming from because when I was nominated for my award, I was just like, I just did my job. Like any of the, any of the boys would have done the same thing, like if you're gonna award me, you should be awarding all these guys as well. Like I didn't do anything special. I was just like johnny on the spot that just had to come up with a solution for a problem that had just presented itself, right? Like, and it wasn't for years, years and years and years that like I never talked about it and it was like, it was, it was always my mates that were like, hey man, like what you did was incredible and blah blah and I was like you would have done the same thing like yeah I might say that but I don't actually know that in the fucking time and in the location with that situation like unfolding as it did man, so you know you should be proud of what you achieved bro and to be recognized by you know higher up higher command that are like you know you fucking you saved this dude dude's life, you got him back on the job, you know which then potentially saved more guys life within the troop to you know bring these guys home man like that's sucking incredible bro and you should be really proud of that mate.
Yeah I am and and don't get me wrong, I go back to what I said at the start and that I was the same person the day before that happened, the day it happened and the day after I was the same person, but in most other people's eyes I was a different person, right? So that that for me is like looking, looking past what you can see about someone, you know, I I think of myself as a pretty good judge of character and you know, I can look at someone, I think they've probably got something quite special, they've just not been tested at this time and you know I've had people that have had a real problem with it at times when I've I came back home and I'm on the, on the piss on the lash and on a night out and people come up to me like, oh you're sucking amazing, like I just don't know how you do that and I was like, mate, like until you've been tested, you don't have any idea what you're capable of. The final portion of this episode is a conversation I had with paul Minter, who is also a former british military veteran and also the founder of Head Up Charity in the UK where Simon maloney is also one of the co founders.
So paul and I discuss everything that took place throughout his deployments throughout his military career. He deployed to Afghanistan numerous times, ah and develop some quite severe pTSD um from things that he saw and things that he did over there. Uh, and then we discussed how that then trickled over into his life back home in the UK and how that was wreaking havoc on his physical and mental health. We discussed strategies, tools, um techniques that Pole had had to use, had to find, had to refine to allow him to start managing his mind, take control of his life and start moving himself in the right direction. Head up charity is a charity that essentially uses these tools that paul's use himself along with his mates and the wider veteran community in the UK to allow people to take control of their lives as well. I want to talk about some of the tools that you've used to essentially get yourself out of bed, get yourself moving again, get yourself back into a good head space and being, you know, a contributing member of society.
But before we do that, I want you to talk to me about your charity, Head up charity, um what that's about how that came about and what the vision is for you moving forward. Yeah, so Head of Charity, which is now known as So when I when I was talking to you at the beginning of this podcast, I said about the military, sent me to get some further help mental health, try and see some psychiatrists and do whatever I need to do. Um and initially I thought, okay, I'm not not really feeling it, but because it's new to me, let's just give it a go and see how we get on. So I spent several months doing stuff and it turned it in the end I started to get a bit better, but I realized I was getting better when I wasn't seeing it was getting better throughout the weeks when I was like kind of working on myself, and then every time I went to go and see someone I got worse and I was back was worse for a couple of days and then it was just, it was just a continuous struggle like that, and then I worked out that the reason why I was getting worse is because whatever subconsciously was going on in my head, whatever it was, whatever wires, wires were crossed and were causing triggers and were causing me to feel anxious and depressed and on edge and feeling like that, you know, that I was I was back on the front line again, um was happening every time I went to see someone and what it was is I was going into a military doctors office, everyone's wearing uniform, where everyone has posters of like, like you would see back at the regiment's, back at the back of the unit, it had a complete military feel to it.
And I was like, how am I supposed to get any help whilst I'm in a in a place which caused what this traumatic event to happen Anyway. So the way I have now explained it, the way I looked at it, I was like, if I were the burns victim, I wouldn't be getting help next to an open fire or if I was in a road traffic accident, I wouldn't be seeing a cancer on the side of the motorway because it would just defeat the object. So why is it in the military that there's no, there's, there's nowhere else to go in the military. If you're suffering from PTSD or any sort of military mental health condition, you can't go anywhere unless it's a military involved environment, and the same with a lot of charity, there's very few charities that offer outside the military environment, that military charities that offer help outside of the environment. So that was one that was one of the big things I thought about when I think about charity. I know I thought, well I said to the, to the armies and then can you help me, can you send me away somewhere? And he said, no, we can't, we can't fund. That was great.
So I'm never going to get better and at this point I'm still on the edge. I'm still like, you know, I've got mates around me dying quite a lot, you know, on a weekly basis. One of my good, one of the suicide, the suicide. So I was in the corridor at the time when I was going to get help myself and a friend who lives two doors up, I woke up one morning he was hanging outside my room and I was like, you know, this is this is this is the severity of how bad things are getting and not. And it didn't seem like anyone there was proper help out there. And I was just like what is happening where, you know, there's lots of individuals that want to help, but as a, as a whole, as an organization, it wasn't working and I think I as an individual, I highlighted a big reason why and but you know, no one else wanted to seem to acknowledge that. So anyway, I said, I said to the army, can you move me away from the, from the barracks because I can't get help whilst living in barracks and they said no, so you're not going to help me with with outside help away from where the triggers are, you're not going to move me away. So sorry Malone who had, who you had on before.
I was speaking a good friend of mine and I was speaking to him and he said, mate, move away, come and move near me, get away from environment. I was like, yeah, okay, I will. So, you know, I spent over half my wages, monthly wages to pay for rent, people rent nearest scientists. And I just started working on myself, started working on, started Youtube ng Youtube channels, google, looking for a positive mindset trading, seeing what I could do it and things like journaling and affirmation started to come up and started to implement it and it started work like really well. And I started looking into gut health and I started looking at what, what am I putting in my body that could help me get rid of all these sugary sugar's and get rid of processed food and start getting more vitamins and minerals in media and what he needs. And it has a big effect on the brain. Then I started looking at fitness and you know, not constantly thrashing myself all the time, that just take, take things nice and easy, you know, even if it means like jogging and walking, just doing that just to get, you know, stimulate the hormones but not, not overstimulating them, that you'll then on edge all day and there's just so many different things I started doing very quickly, I started to feel a lot, a lot better and had so many friends and all over the place that we're struggling.
So they started to come to me so you can, you know, you're, you're doing so much better what happened? So I then started helping them individually saying that why don't you try this, this, this, this and they were like, wow, this is like this generally is working. I was like yeah uh and I think by this point the military said again, um medically discharged me After 18 years service, he said unfortunately we don't, we don't think you're mentally stable to stay in the military, so we're going to discharge you, but this is a big blow for me because I never wanted to leave, Right? So you did 18 years and then you got out what year? Um so I might, It was actually last November November 2020, So I left him, but just before that I got offered the job for example, in Africa doing anti poaching like £500 a day. Um so I had a few other jobs lined up as well, but there was just this niggling little thing that was like, I think these jobs are not, is not the purpose is not what I want to be doing. And I'm just going back to the same old treadmill again, I did this, I want to help people, but I just didn't know how and then I was in Scotland, was there during the lockdown and I ran around this, this lock was like, it was 34 miles, something like that.
And as I ran around it had one of those epiphany moments, like everything just like that in front of me, like, you need to start a charity to start a charity, you know, you don't know anything about it, you're gonna have to do something big to get attention, big to get back in, big to get funding because it's just, you know, you um, I knew I knew I wanted to create a retreat where people can go to, so going off my own experiences away from the military environment, away from all the triggers where, which where there isn't really any other help like that. Um, also I knew I wanted to retreat where, you know, where people can come to and all these positive mindset training. So it doesn't take away from medication and it doesn't take away from um people talking to psychiatrists or anything, it just gives them another, another means another tool in the bag to the, so I've come up with the idea of running 5800 miles around the UK to bring attention to the charity And I was supposed to leave the day after my discharge discharge was on 27th of November 2020, and then the 28th.
So for me personally, it was almost like a wizard leaving, I was going straight into doing something, but because of lockdown and wasn't able to do it thankfully. That was that was a blessing in disguise, and now I've been able to concentrate on the charities and now we're really starting to get a charity underway. We've got, you know, got so many things lined up, charity won't be formed for another couple of months, not fully, but we're already starting to work on, it's starting to get attention, starting to give talks. Um, and that the division, is It, by 2023, we've got to basically got two year um, fundraising period of to raise around £3 million machine. I feel very confident we will, And then we're going to build a luxury retreat with 10 veterans, serving soldiers from the Army, Navy R. F reserves, that they can get in touch with us. They don't have to have any sort of medical assessment beforehand. They just say they don't have to have a certain level of severity, which a lot of charities and the military say, you know, unfortunately, we can't supply the money on you because you're not as bad as well as the people we need to supply money on, which is very reactive, which kind needs to be, we want to say to these people, just tell us that you're not feeling good.
Put yourself into a seven day course, come into the course, will teach you um nutrition, fitness, uh animal therapy, cold water therapy, red light therapy, and meditations, and affirmations, journeying, all these different basic tools for probably seven days. You can you can either take on board and not take on board, some will work for you, some won't work for you, but now you've got a plethora of different platforms that you you're now aware of and you now know about, and not only that we've we've kind of held your hand through the, through the steps and leading you up and putting you back into control of your life. And so it's sending you on your way. So hopefully this person won't have never need to go to a charity where he's severe enough to need that help. So, yeah, and that's that's our mission at the moment. So we've got a couple of years, but we're almost formed and then we've got two year fundraising period where we want to get as many fundraisers as possible. We're gonna get as much back as we can, and we're going to search for as many grants as we possibly can, get this £3 million on the way, we're gonna go try and get as big as we can on social media, and then, like I said, the 5800 miles and I'm still doing it.
I'm doing it on the first of March 2021. I'm running 30 miles every single day so well every single day, but 200 days periods, I've got a few days off in between here and there. And the idea is just to meet as many people along the way as possible. Um, so I called everyone but I'll be jogging and walking. So I want people to join me, the fundraising me, I want people to, I want to try to get as many schools and universities as possible. So as much as this is a military charity to run itself, we want, we want everyone to get involved, everyone to start talking about mental health, everyone to start going, you know what? We don't have to, it's not all doom and gloom, there's those good things out there, just start spreading the word in a positive way. Mm Hmm. That's a very cool concept, man. And it reminds me of what Swiss eight was trying to do when they first started their organization. Now something you spoke about, there was all of these different tools to be able to apply to your life to start putting those pieces of the jigsaw puzzle back together.
Um now, one thing I want to talk about here is the autonomic nervous system and I've spoken about this numerous times. The autonomic nervous system is the balance between the sympathetic nervous system, which is our fight or flight state essentially our acute stress response and the parasympathetic nervous system, which is our rest and digest, which is essential for long term survival. Now, as a soldier coming from a war torn environment where you're fighting and coming back to your home location, there's not really a decompression period. And man like I, our fucking cork on our patrol base was murdered like by one of the Afghan National Army soldiers that we were actually in Afghanistan to train Like two weeks before we came home to Australia. And you know, I went from that environment, zero decompression period. Uh and within two weeks I was, you know, with my girlfriend with my friends playing rugby back in that normal civilian space and I hadn't been taught these tools to be able to, you know, deal with the emotions and all of the ship that I hadn't really had a chance to deal with in Afghanistan.
And all of a sudden I find myself back on the street, you know, where people are still in kind of their bubble. And I mean, we're in a bubble in Afghanistan as well. And what what was important to us was, you know, the people either side of us and the guys that were on the ground um in your team that we're working towards the same thing and in my mind, this is where a lot of issues come up is you know, these guys come back from being in a highly sympathetic state where their stress response is up regulated and then they're back in a safe environment and you are constantly on the lookout for potential threats. And sometimes, you know if you're in that heightened state then you start creating threats where there are none. And dude, like so many things are still drilled into my brain, man. Like if I sit down at a restaurant, I'm sitting with my back against the wall where I can see the entry and exit points. If I'm riding with friends somewhere, then I'm maintaining my spacing as I go through, you know, traffic. Um I'm constantly on the lookout for high ground or anywhere where there's some potential camouflage and concealment and you know, all of these things that were just drilled into me that became a part of my um part of my job.
You know, it's very difficult to shake those things and when you're taught to do these things, you're constantly trying to implement them and it's very difficult to have that transition and try and switch that stuff off. And I think this is a big problem with why a lot of guys do actually fall into states of anxiety and depression and PTSD and things like that because they haven't been taught these tools to be able to switch off the sympathetic state and drive the parasympathetic state and tell themselves that they are in a safe place and they can chill out and relax and not be on high alert all the time and turn those speakers down so to speak. And something that worked for me when I was in Afghanistan was literally counting my breaths every night when I went to sleep because there was a period of a couple of weeks where I was in that highly sympathetic state, my team leader had been shot, put him on a helicopter, didn't know if he's going to live or die. The next day was back out on patrol and burst of machine gun fire went right between my mate and I and you know I had to focus on my breath to allow me to get to sleep at night.
Now I wasn't taught how to do that. I just had to figure out a way to be able to get to sleep so that I could perform the next day because as the lead scout of my sniper patrol and the combat first aiders you know it was my role to be the eyes and the ears of my patrol and my worst fear was not that I would step on I. D. Or cop around to the chest. It would be that if I miss something then the bloke behind me took the brunt of the explosion or cops around to the chest and that would that was something that I would have to live with for the rest of my life. So I had to find a tool that was going to allow me to get to sleep so I could get up in the morning and be at my best and be able to perform and do my job and be an asset to the team rather than a liability. Um Now, a point that I want to make here is that these tools are going to be different for every single person, what works for me might not necessarily work for you and the tools that you use might not necessarily work for other people. So we need to add tools to our toolbox to be applied at the appropriate time.
That's going to elicit the response that we want and look man, it took me a little bit of time to figure this out because you know, I went from this highly sympathetic stress response state in Afghanistan where your senses are on high alert all the time and then you know, you're back in your home environment and those sensors are still up. So I had to find those tools and I had to tweak those tools to allow me to you know, dr the relaxation state, the parasympathetic state so that I could get back into society and function somewhat normally for me. I love scuba diving. So when I'm under water I'm scuba diving, I'm literally focusing on my breath because that's what controls my buoyancy. Um So I'm in the moment and I'm thinking about where I'm at and nothing else matters. And the same thing goes for um riding my motorbike in Thailand I'll put a podcast on and I'll go for a cruise and I literally am just focused on what I'm doing where I'm at. I'm living in the moment and I'm not concerned about anything else. Now for other people Breathing through a tube, 30 m underwater is going to drive the stress response, the sympathetic state and likewise riding a motorbike in Thailand might drive that sympathetic state again.
So you know, those tools are very important and how you use them is also important. So you know, we need to look at adding these tools to our toolbox, We need to find the things that are going to allow us to relax, drive that parasympathetic state allow us to dampen that signal from the sympathetic nervous system and basically tell our brain that hey everything's safe, we're cool. We can chill out, we can relax and we can get back to our baseline, which is homeostasis. So the point that I'm trying to make here is that you know, we need to have a toolbox full of different tools. So if you look at a builder for example, you know, they have different tools for different jobs and if you need to, you know, hammer a nail into the wall so you can hang a picture or something like that, then you're obviously going to use a specific tool, if you need to screw off a roof, then you're going to use a different tool, if you need to cut down a tree, you're going to use a different tool if you need to put in some plumbing, drill a hole somewhere, you're going to use a different tool if you need to blow some leaves off your driveway as a different tool as well.
So the more tools that we have in our toolbox, the more options we have to be able to pick the right tool to get the job done that we're trying to achieve. Yeah, that's a really good point. And I think also it's also a very good point so that people know that, I think what happens when people have all these tools and they just try and use them all at once and they're like, why, why am I not good? I'm not using it, I don't know how to do this, don't do that and all of a sudden to get overwhelmed. And so I think the way you just said it as like a tool box, this is a great idea of how to say, you know, put put the tools, you've got them, put them in a box and then when you need one, pick it back out again rather than just holding them all thinking how and grunge uh global and not knowing how to use them. I think it's a great way of looking at it and I think, yeah, certainly from my experience and my experience and seeing other people, if people try to use too many at once or try to do too much of a deep dive into one initially just gradually get, get used to it because it's a shock to the body to be able to taking us to change your way of being or change your way of thinking or you know what's, you know, your social acceptance or social belief to try and change that so much of it instantly.
So it's a big shock to the body and the mind. So you've got to gradually just chip away and chip away and chip away and eventually it grains into you. So yeah, I agree. And I think also you, you said about just going back to what you were talking about earlier when you said um have been in a fight or flight moment constantly and um I mean it just, it just reminded me of a story that happened to me and after just come back from whence I got shot in the fruit. That's all I came back from it not long after I had gone out for a night out, I only had a couple of drinks. Um but my head wasn't right. I mean I knew that something wasn't right, paranoia was there before I even had a drink anyway, just to show you that the house of fear my paranoia got is I saw a guy coming out of a train station and an asian book, I thought he had a bomb in his bag and no reason. It was just a guy coming back from work and I generally believe there's a bomb in it and I was telling myself ahead, no, yes.
And then it was yes, yes, as I ran out, pushed everyone away, jumped on him, just shout, he's got a bomb in his bag and everyone, this is the middle of London, everyone ran away and he was like, get off me and I was holding his hands out thinking he's going to try and pull the trigger and I'll shout out, shout and get the police, get the police and the police came, you know, dealt with us both and he realized he was just a guy arrested me, took me to the police station and said, look you did, you got to think you've got PTSD and I was like no of course not. So they charged me and then um the army being the army rather than trying to say, look what's what's going on, What's wrong with you, you just come back from tour, You know, you think they're the bombings on the bag instead of that, they tried kicking me out of the army. This episode is brought to you by Swiss eight who I've been an ambassador for for the last few years. I love what they're doing in the veteran community and in the mental health space in Australia, which is starting to trickle over to other parts of the world. If you're struggling with your mental health, reach out to either Swiss eight, if you're in Australia or head up charity in in the UK To see what they can do to help you out.
Swiss eight actually has an app that you can download and start structuring and scheduling, their eight pillars of health and wellness straight onto your phone. I do have a training program up on the Swiss eight app, along with a number of other veterans who have provided content in their eight pillars of health and wellness. I'll have all of these conversations along with those links in the show notes, any five star ratings and reviews are much appreciated, much loved guys. Peace.