a heads up before we get started. Mobbed up contains explicit content such as adult language and depictions of violence, including murder. Please be advised that this podcast might not be suitable for all audiences. May 25th 1978 It's an unseasonably warm Thursday evening in Kansas City, Missouri. An Independence Avenue, one of the busier streets running through the city's Northeast neighborhood, has quieted down for the night. A man and a woman walked down the street together, apparently wrapping up a date. When the couple nears the corner of Independence Avenue and Prospect Avenue, they start to make their way toward an Italian restaurant, the Villa Capri. All the lights inside the restaurant are off, and it's obviously closed, but the couple doesn't appear bothered by that. They're apparently just looking for a bit of privacy, so they turn into the doorway of the Villa Capri and spend a few moments there locked in a romantic embrace. Then, within a few minutes, they continue their walk down Independence Avenue heading east. If you were walking down Independence Avenue that night, you probably wouldn't have given this couple a second thought or if you did, you just assume their decision to step into the store way for a few moments was spontaneous.
A spur of the moment end to a romantic evening. Mhm. Okay, But it wasn't. Everything about this series of events had been meticulously planned. Mhm. Yeah, when she got power. A lot of power. You don't care about the money anymore for the Las Vegas Review Journal in partnership with the Mob Museum. I'm read Redmond. He's one of you. You kill him. You're listening to mobbed up a true story about money. You're not supposed to have a profile like that. Especially in Vegas crime. You want to be very quiet so you can steal the money. You always said if you pull a gun on somebody, you finish it. Because if you don't, it's going to come back to haunt you. And I have ever seen what's going on here, and he's saying they're trying to kill me. And I said he was trying to kill your name. Shut up. And the fight for control of Las Vegas. The FBI will continue to look to the future to use the latest and most sophisticated techniques to fight organized crime.
The mom would have destroyed Las Vegas. The only question is not if, but when it would be destroyed. I was there every day with these fellas. I had no idea that there was a mob and he once told somebody, There's bodies out there in the desert and there's more every day. But if there is one area where the word war is appropriate, it is in the fight against crime. When you grab them, you'll bring them to the desert. You're gonna know where the hole has been dug. No Part eight. Straw man. Mm, yeah. So the man and woman who stopped in front of a restaurant in the opening scene of this episode, or a pair of FBI agents pretending to be out on a date, and they stopped in front of that particular restaurant, the Villa Capri, for a reason. It was a joint that was familiar to members of law enforcement.
Like Gary Jenkins, a former intelligence detective with the Kansas City Police, the Villa Capri was like a small neighborhood bar and pizza joint been there for years and years. It was operated by a guy named Ross Strada, who who had grown up in a little lately and Clemens Park area with the rest of these guys. He was a booking himself and trusted guy, and it was a kind of place. If you walked in and you weren't known, everybody was just kind of stopped to see who you were. I went in there a couple of times myself. But you know, if you're just going in and sit down with somebody in, in order a pizza and mind your own business, they quit staring at you. But it was one of those kinds of places. An FBI informant had provided information to the government that conversations related to local murders would be taking place inside the villa Capri and the FBI had gotten probable cause to install microphones at a back table of the restaurant, according to Bill Housely, former supervisor of the FBI's organized crime Squad in Kansas City. That's where the agents, pretending to be out on a date came into the picture. The Tech agents are responsible, uh, for their plan.
Well, I can tell you, in this case, we had a guy from Washington come out and, uh, it's probably a genius when it comes to this kind of thing. But anyway, he and a female agent, uh, went up on the avenue and, uh, pretended to be, uh, smooching in the doorway. And while they were doing that hugging and and what have you he picked the lock, and they got in. It was that simple. With the door unlocked, other agents were able to sneak in undetected and install microphones at the back tables of the restaurant. Bill Owsley was hopeful that as soon as the restaurant opened back up, the mix would start to pick up conversations about the recent string of local murders. It was a lot of nothing for about a week. And, uh, one day I came in to work, and the night crew had put the tape on my desk. They didn't know what it was. We had a lot of guys who were not working, organized crime, helping on the monitoring.
And he said, I think there's something in this. You better hear it. And so I got pretty excited. I said, Man, we're gonna solve these damn murders. So I turned the tape on and start listening, and I said, Oh, my Lord, this is This is a surprise. Just you know, just a moment when you say this is crazy. Mhm. Mm. Mhm. They're coming on there, but the baby, even though he's gonna wait, I was gonna tell you. I posit that. Anyway, what you're hearing right now is actual audio picked up from the microphones installed inside the Villa Capri. And yes, it's nearly impossible to make out all the words on this tape. But as Bill Owsley and his team started to listen back to this audio, they realized they were picking up on something far bigger than they'd anticipated. This was not on the radar. It came out of the blue, you know? Then, as I listened for the third time 1/4 time, I'm saying, Oh, my goodness, Yeah, He don't work here.
Here they are trying to hear information about local murders, and what they pick up is terms like Teamsters Union and $25 million ingenious and Lefty. And the star does. So what does it? It wasn't immediately clear what all of these code names and phrases meant. Genius and Lefty and the Stardust Remember, these agents were trying to investigate local murders connected to the mob, not some interstate conspiracy involving multimillion dollar loans. Frontman in Vegas casinos. Now we're looking for murder. We're looking for evidence of conspiracy to murder the bomb, extortion, the whole works, Las Vegas, the last thing on our mind. But when they sat down that night, they talked about Las Vegas, and it was obvious, uh, that this could be the break that we've been looking for the f b I have been looking for for since I think, uh, Bugsy Siegel put the Flamingo together. Uh huh. Listening to this conversation that took place at the Villa Capri was like dropping into a movie halfway through.
The agents knew this was a big deal. And with help from the FBI in Las Vegas, they were starting to weave together some of the threads, the names and places. But they were still missing key plot points. At that point, all we had was a coded conversation. That was it we had. It was wonderful. But when we sat down and, uh, ice water was put on arts, we said, Well, Jesus, you know, that's all we have. The two participants of the conversation were Carl Savella, who was the brother of Kansas City. crime boss Nick Savella and Carl or Tuffy Deluna, who was described to me as an underboss of the Kansas City crime family. Carl de Luna was reporting on what he was getting from Las Vegas, and at the end they said, Well, we got to get a hold of this guy. In other words, from the things that they had been discussing, they needed to guide this guy and we need to get a hold of him. And I don't know if he said, I gotta go out and get a phone or something, But it was obvious that he was in touch with somebody telephonically on a regular basis.
Again, it's awfully hard to make out. But here's the part of the conversation Owsley is talking about. Where DeLuca states. I don't want to call him from here. I think we ought to just get to a phone. Oh, yeah, I don't I just give me a call. At one point in time, he ended a conversation with I don't want to use the phone here, and I got to go find a phone. Well, you know, and he's talking about some business that is connected with this other conversation you had, which we deduce has something to do with Las Vegas. So you got to find that phone. They're not gonna really talked too much stuff in that bar. So you got to find that phone and, man, they put a full court surveillance on, uh, tough the limit. As a member of the Kansas City Police Department's intelligence unit, Gary Jenkins worked with the FBI to track Carl Tuffy DeLuna and find the phone in. They catch him going north on a universal street. And there's a hotel up in there like about a six story hotel. The Breckenridge in There's a little restaurant next to it. And so they catch him up at the Breckenridge in, and then somebody catches him up there again.
They get out and walk in, and they seem back on the phone. There's a bank of three pay phones like bam. We got him. We got him. We got his secret station payphones. The FBI would be able to establish probable cause and set up electronic surveillance on the pay phone Tuffy DeLuna was using inside this hotel. The Breckenridge in From that point on, the FBI was able to listen in every time Tuffy placed a call to Las Vegas. Hello? Hold the line Place for long distance. All right. Hello. Oh, you're quick. Uh, kind of quick, right? Uh, you're kind of quick, aren't you? Hello. Let's see it. He said my watch. Law. What time you got? I'm a little early, but he told me all these last few minutes. You hear what you say, but I don't know him. I got accepted. Yeah. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. As the FBI listened to Tuffy Elena's phone calls at the Breckenridge in, they figured out that he was talking to another Kansas City mob associate named Joe Augusto, who was out in Las Vegas. If these names sound familiar, they came up briefly in a previous episode of this series.
They were the same guys who were overheard on wiretaps referring to Senator Harry Reid as Clean Face or Mr Clean. So who exactly was Joe Augusto? The guy in the Las Vegas end of these calls. Well, Bill Owsley described him to me as a fraudster. Someone who could carry out any kind of scam you could think of by the late seventies, when these wiretapped calls were taking place, Augusto had conned his way into a position of authority at the Tropicana Hotel on the Las Vegas Strip. On paper, he was the Tropicana's entertainment director, but in practice he was overseeing the Kansas City crime families. Interests at the Trop sound familiar, essentially, what Lefty Rosenthal was to the Stardust Joe Augusto was to the Tropicana. Granted, he usually managed to stay under the radar more effectively than Lefty, so he was their main ally. When these phone calls were going on, they had to do. The connection was due to his infiltration of the trap, but he was giving them intelligence on everything going on in Las Vegas.
These phone calls between Tuffy Deluna and Joe Augusto would provide the FBI with all kinds of previously unknown information regarding him and ownership of Las Vegas casinos. For that reason, the investigation would eventually become known as the Strawman investigation, named after the Strawman casino owners like Allen Glick at the Stardust, who proved to be serving as a front for the mob. The electronic surveillance in Kansas City became like a, uh, falling dominoes. You know, each conversation gave us probable cause, almost, uh, for another phone. The FBI would continue to expand its electronic surveillance efforts throughout 1978 slowly compiling a mountain of evidence and piecing together an increasingly clearer picture of the mobs hitting control of various casinos, namely the Tropicana and the Stardust. MM, as the FBI in Kansas City continues to monitor conversations about the mob's operations in Las Vegas, One of the subjects that comes up again and again on the wiretaps is Lefty Rosenthal, Chicago's overseer at the Stardust.
Here's a clip of Joe Augusto talking about Lefty, whom he refers to as pot so Italian for crazy from a call placed on November 3rd, 1978 he states that if he had the chance to choke Lefty with his hands, he'd do it. According to former FBI agent Bill Owsley, the guys in Kansas City are apparently worried that left is erratic and high profile behavior might blow their own cover in Vegas. You're not supposed to have a profile like that, especially in Vegas. You want to be very quiet so you can steal the money. Lefties Behavior was also catching the attention of the head of the Kansas City crime family, a guy named Nick Savella in November of 1978 the FBI would pick up a call placed by Nick Savella at the office of one of his attorneys at one point in time. Next level is really upset with Lefty Rosenthal. He's creating so many problems with so many headlines with the gaming commission that he needs to get him to shut up in the conversation you're about to hear.
Nick Savella is trying to send that very message to Lefty that he better shut up and he's sending that message through none other than lefties. Lawyer future three term mayor of Las Vegas Oscar Goodman. You're hearing actual audio of the call between Nick Savella and Oscar Goodman. Recorded at 3 44 PM on November 13th, 1978. I'll let former Kansas City Intelligence Unit Detective Gary Jenkins walk you through the call. He starts out in a typical next, By the way, he's cool. He covers all the niceties. How you doing? How's the family housing? Mrs. House? The Children. Hello. Hi. How are you? How are you? Very good. How are you doing? You know what? This is Certainly. How are you doing? I'm good And, uh, I'll tell you what. Uh, first, how's it misses and go out? And the rest of the Children? They're all doing fine. Effective. So then he gets into about Lefty and he said, uh, he makes some statements to him. Well, you know, he said, What's your feeling about the position he's taken? And Goodman says, Well, we get into that whole psychological profile.
Can I ask you without not trying to compromise? You know, I just ask you, is one you know, saying to another, What is your feeling about the position is taking? Well, uh, we get into that whole psychological profile, uh, back you get to the old story. Yeah, the old story I said It's the same old story and said, Well, what would you agree? That he might be open a tremendous kind of worms. And Goodman says, Well, I might agree with that, but but he'd never and Sabella said, You know, I I know he'd never agree, but I don't think he's ever made a mistake in his life, Goodman says. Yeah, you're right on that one. Would you read that he might be opening up a tremendous big can of works. I might agree to that, but he would never I'm not a Husker. I know what he never agreed that. I don't think he's already mistake in his life, right? You know, my God, I know people like that, you know? But with the timing of certain things here and things that are happening in town, it's a shame that everything culminating at the same time because one thing is going to affect others.
That's my opinion. Uh, there's nothing I can do to stop that. You know, they keep talking about that. Oscar Goodman says, Yeah, he said his manhood is at stake. Yeah, somebody put in this place, he feels that his manhood Well, whatever. And Goodman says, Well, you know how he is. You know he's gonna do what he's gonna do. Basically, So, you know, they ended up really with that. Said I want to reach out and talk to him. But don't let him know that I talk to you. It just doesn't make fucking sense. I don't know. I don't want to tell them to you tell them to you, which I will Anyway, Listen, I appreciate Alice. You always just say that I don't have any trouble getting your your right. And I tell people I reach me. I don't have any trouble, right? Thanks for the call back. They end this with Savella says. Well, now I'm just repeating it. Our conversation stays confidential, Goodman says. Fine. I didn't even talk to you.
Civil says client attorney. Right. Good. And then state, right? He says, Very good. Listen to a lot. Of course, I'm just repeating it. Our conversation stays confidence to buy. And I didn't even talk. Client attorney. Right. Very good. Thank you, buddy. And my best at home. All right, my best, everybody. Thank you very much. Bye. Mhm. Mm hmm. Eventually, Nick Savella managed to get in touch with Lefty directly to tell him to cool it. You gotta cool it and left. He acts like he's going to. Of course he doesn't. He continues his fight with the gaming commission and making the headlines and and all that until finally somebody tries to kill him. In the end, a few years after all these conversations were recorded, lefties run in Las Vegas would come to an end following an assassination attempt, jumping ahead to October 4th 1982. Here's longtime Nevada journalist Myron Borders in an interview with the Oral History Research Center at the UNLV Library, Special collections and archives. I remember I was driving home one night down Sahara, and as I was passing Marie Callender's There was a big boom and I looked over there and it looked like a card blown up.
When my room turned around to see what happened, she spotted a familiar face, someone she'd been reporting on for years, scrambling out of a burning Cadillac in a parking lot outside of a Tony Roma's restaurant. And so I pulled into the parking lot and there was I certainly knew Lefty Rosenthal, and he was. He jumped out of the car and he was patented smoking clothes and his hair was standing straight up. But I knew that he had had a hair transplant, so I didn't know whether his hair was standing up because of the explosion or because of the transplant. And I remember seeing what's going on here, and he's saying they're trying to kill me and I said, Who's trying to kill you? And then he shut up. That was the end of that he didn't talk to any more. A law enforcement source would tell the review journal that after eating dinner and walking out to his car left, he had started the ignition while halfway inside the vehicle. So when the explosion occurred, the driver's side door was open, the source stated. Quote. It blew him out of the car. That's probably what saved his life. The assassination attempt had failed, but Lefty did leave Las Vegas for good shortly after moving with his family to California and then Florida left.
He refused to say who he thought had attempted to kill him, instead opting to tell journalists Quote, Well, it wasn't the Boy Scouts of America. To this day, we still don't know for sure who planned the assassination attempt in 1982. But what is certain is that there were plenty of people who wanted left out of the picture. Of course, high ranking members of the Kansas City crime family had been unhappy with him for years. It's also a safe bet that some of the top guys in Chicago weren't thrilled with all the attention he was drawing either. Another common theory is that Tony Spilotro, the outfits enforcer in Vegas had something to do with it. In 1980 I broke a story of a rift between Spilotro and Frank Rosenthal Review Journal reporter Jeff Gorman, who was writing for the Las Vegas Sun at the time, turned out Tony Spilotro had an affair with Frank Rosenthal's wife, Jerry, a former dancer and who was pretty well known in her own right. This affair became public in September of 1980 after Lefty and his wife, Jerry, had a screaming match in front of their home in the Las Vegas Country Club, a scene that would be central to Martin Scorsese's film Casino, based on the book by Nick Pileggi.
But this rift between Rosenthal's bilateral was not good for both men because it created problems for them. With the bosses in Chicago, on top of everything else you've heard about him, the mom may have had yet another reason to want Lefty out of the picture. Here's former RJ reporter and columnist Jane Anne Morrison. I was the first one to report that Rosenthal had become a government, a cooperating witness with the government Jane and broke this news in 2000 and eight after left. He died of a heart attack at age 79. The title of her column. Lefty Rosenthal was an FBI snitch. And, of course, the I got people on the record to say that the sources on the record to say that because he never got immunity, he never testified. And he was never charged with anything. Of course, he's a snitch. It doesn't take, and pretty much everybody knew it. Um, but they wouldn't say. You know, law enforcement wouldn't say it while he was still alive. Because you don't want to be the one FBI agent or gaming control agent that gets Rosenthal killed.
So they didn't. They were real careful about that. But after he died of natural causes at that point, uh, you could say that, Yes. Now what I never found out and what I still haven't found out is What did he give them? Did he give them fake information? Did he just you know, obviously he was trying to protect himself. Uh, did he really give them anything meaningful, or did he just give them the information that they might chase, but never find anything? Yeah. Hey, Getting back to the fall of 1978 4 years before Lefty's car bombing, the FBI in Kansas City was learning more and more about hit an ownership of Las Vegas casinos. Through its Strawman investigation, the bureau had taped thousands of hours of conversations between reputed mobsters in Kansas City and Associates in Las Vegas. On one of these wiretaps, in November of 1978 the F B I learned that Kansas City mob boss Nick Savella was planning a meeting with all of the top players connected to the Kansas City family.
Nick Savella himself, his brother Carl or Cork Savella, Tuffy Deluna and flying in from Las Vegas, Joe Augusto, the entertainment director at the Tropicana. Also on the guest list for this meeting was someone who hadn't been on the FBI's radar. An executive at the Tropicana named Carl Thomas, who for a long time was thought to be a legitimate businessman, the subject of the meeting, the mob skimming operations in Las Vegas. And so they know it's going to be about the skin. And, you know, if you're going to have a big meeting about the skin, you gotta you gotta try to get in on that the FBI figured out that this big meeting about the skin was set to take place at the home of someone referred to on wiretaps as Josie, a nickname for Josephine Marlo and in law of one of the Sevilla's. The bureau was determined to have ears on this meeting, so they sent two agents over to the Marlowe residents dressed up as a telephone repairman. So they have to do a survey of the House first, and they get a couple of agents to go in. They mess the phone up, and then they get a couple of agents to go in and act like their phone men, and they're going to repair the phone.
One of the agents tells the story how he got the, uh, chili recipe from Mrs Marlowe while he was in there. They put some kind of a microphone in the telephone, which is in kind of a central location, but they see there's like a den off away from the kitchen. There's a formal living room within. There's a den and there's a T V, and they kind of figured that's where the meeting will be. You know, you never know. You can't can't wire the whole house and you've got a calculated risk or get some tips on where the meeting is going to be. The microphone inside the telephone isn't enough to pick up things out of this. This other room to install microphones in this other room, the den of the home, the F B I needed to find a way back inside the house, according to Gary Jenkins. It would later be revealed in court that the agents had managed to clone Josephine Marlowe's garage door opener the first time around. Yeah, when they caught Josephine Marlo leaving one day why they just pulled in the neighborhood with a car that looked like hers and open the garage door and went in and started putting the installing the microphone.
So that's it is really a pretty simple deal, as they did that November 26th, 1978. Around 10 30 in the morning, Tuffy Deluna and Joe Augusto show up at the home of Josephine Marlo, and they're greeted by the smell of meatballs in simmering red sauce. Nick Savella is already waiting for them, and he's quick to point out that they're running late. So who's your 10 15, right? Nick's brother, Carl Savella, who goes by the nickname Cork, apparently has to leave for a bit. And in a moment that seems too on the nose for even the corniest of mom movies, he tries to make Joe Augusto more comfortable by fixing him a plate of meatballs. On his way out, Nick tells Joe Augusto to sit down cork leaves and they get to talking about business. Conversation quickly turns to one of their biggest problems.
The outfits. Man in charge of the Stardust lefty Rosenthal. Nick asks, What have you heard about lefty job? Augusto had brought a newspaper along with him. He apparently wanted to share a scathing editorial he'd found about Lefty Rosenthal. Nick asks who wrote it, and Augusto tells him it was the review journal job. Augusta was holding a copy of The Las Vegas Review Journal five days earlier, on November 21st.
1978 a column ran in the paper titled Rules Bigger Than Frank Rosenthal. As they discuss the column, Nick Civil interjects with my personal favorite, four seconds of audio you're going to hear in this entire series. As with all of these electronic surveillance clips. It's a bit difficult to make out, but what you're about to hear is Nick Savella, the boss of the Kansas City crime family, stating while the review Journal is a dirty son of a bitch. Later on, during the Marlowe meeting, as it would become known, Carl Thomas shows up and provides an overview of skimming operations at the Tropicana and the Stardust. By this point, the mob had developed a wide variety of skimming methods. According to a later report from the President's Commission on Organized Crime, a report that was no doubt informed by the recordings of the Marlowe meeting.
Investigators would encounter the following methods of skimming in Las Vegas casinos. The easiest way to do it was to take some cash out of Dropbox is on casino floors before the total could be counted, another common method involved under weighing slot machine proceeds. Because casinos dealt with such a large volume of coins, they would weigh them in batches on electronic scales to count them. But you could alter the coin scales, for example, so that 110 silver dollars would read as only 100 silver dollars, leaving you with a 10% skin. A third skinning method involved falsifying fill slips, which casinos used to track when they replenish the supply of chips on table games. A similar scheme involved falsifying credit slips, which are used to track the removal of chips from table games. Yet another method was to falsify casino expenses in exchange for a loan kick back. And one of the more entertaining methods of skimming, at least in my opinion, is what law enforcement would refer to as a dumping game, where someone who's in on the scheme poses as a card player and the dealer dumps the game to that player by giving them favorable odds are just paying them out, whether they're winning or losing.
The list goes on and on. And to the delight of the FBI agents listening in, Carl Thomas ran through a history of all these different methods at the Marlowe meeting. So, you know, they just keep talking about Carl Thomas. He makes some of the that got his statements. He said, You know, he said, uh, I got the way He said that, you know, they tried rigging the scales and that didn't really work, and they're talking about going and getting the slots and getting money out of slots and creating another bank. And and I said, Well, that's too much trouble, the coins way too much and you know, you gotta transfer that into case money and that means you've got to create another bank and track that money and there's another way to They created fill slips where they would fill out a a false fill slip and make it look like they took money out and put it someplace out from from another table. And and that was all really complicated. And Carl Thomas said, You know, just do it like I used to do it over the circus circus and like we've been doing, I set it up over to start us the same way He said, We just got We have to own all the guys in the count room he said, You know, there's a guard out front, but I always tip him off.
Uh, you know, like $100 a week and, you know, you just count out the money, just count out the hunters Boom, boom, boom! The next thing you know, he got $40,000 in the stack and and just take it out with you at night and next worried about that? So what about that guy out in front? He said, Well, you know, he said, Well, what if somebody comes in? So I got the guy out front. Well, what if What if he gets suspicious? He said, no. He never has yet. He said he's not going to as long as you keep him paid off. Well, no, the scales won't be adjusted. But the guy that reads the scale is your have you gotta You gotta read the scale. I bought one of myself. Scale cost 15,000. But like that reason it was it was the most damning conversation I have ever heard about skimming from Las Vegas casinos. So it was. It was a really enlightening day for for law enforcement. Before the meeting wraps up, these guys discuss what the government, which they refer to as the G, might know about their operations. The irony, of course, being that the government is hearing every word they're saying, Then the meeting comes to an end.
Mm. On part nine of Mobbed up. The federal government finds an unlikely ally. I have never in my life put a witness on the witness stand without knowing what they're gonna say. But I did. This is Ben, Part eight of Mobbed Up, a production of the Las Vegas Review Journal in partnership with the Mob Museum. Mobbed up is reported and produced by me. Read Redmond. As always, you can reach me on Twitter at Red Redmond or by email at our Redmond Every view journal dot com. Our sound designer and audio editor for this series is Jonathan McMichael, who also composed the theme song You're Hearing Right Now. Other sound effects and music used in this episode are from Motion Array and Stephen Arnold Music. Additional audio clips used in this episode come from the Oral History Research Center at the UNLV Library, special collections and archives, thanks to Gary Jenkins, host of the organized crime podcast Gangland Wire, for providing access to the electronic surveillance records you've heard in this episode, thanks also to everyone who shared their insights and stories on this episode.
Gary Jenkins, Bill Owsley, Jeff Gorman and Jane and Morrison. You can learn more about the Mob museum by heading over to the Mob museum dot org. You can learn more about mobbed up and check out some of the review journals. Other podcasts by visiting review journal dot com. Backslash podcasts We'll be back at it next week, thanks to you, as always, for tuning in.