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150. Building Healthy, Performance-Based Relationships with Coach Carlos Johnson

by Lindsay Lyons
February 13th 2024
In today's episode with special guest and coach Carlos Johnson, Lindsay discusses how we can build healthy, performanc... More
Welcome to the Time for Teacher podcast as a professional speaker trainer and author, Mr Johnson A K A coach, Carlos is locally bred. But his work in research on culture and engagement have taken him national and international coach, Carlos and his team of consultants have utilized his experience and research to successfully turn around three failing public schools and one private Christian Academy. In addition, his training and strategies have helped to change school culture and increase parental engagement, student enrollment and staff and student retention. His driving belief. After 20 years of research, all evidence confirms that a highly engaged culture is the mother of high performance. Everybody get ready to meet. Coach Carlos, educational justice coach Lindsay Lyons. And here on the time for teacher podcast, we learn how to inspire educational innovation for racial and gender justice design curricula grounded in student voice and build capacity for shared leadership. I'm a former teacher leader turned instructional coach. I'm striving to live a life full of learning, running, baking, traveling and parenting because we can be rockstar educators and be full human beings if you're a principal assistant superintendent, curriculum director, instructional coach or teacher who enjoys nering out about core curriculum of students.

I made this show for you. Here we go. Coach Carlos. Welcome to the time for teachers podcasts. Oh, man, I, I am ecstatic. If this was video, you would see my big smile. I'm happy to be here. Thank you so much for being here, injury and all. I'm so grateful for your time and, and I think so, one of the things that people often think of, right, when they, we hear the bio at the start of the episode and everything, they're like, there's more to me than my official bio, right? Or there's something on my mind right now that's grounding our conversation today. Is there anything like that that you want people to know beyond the traditional bio? Just kind of where we're starting today? I just, you know, regardless of what my bio says, it can all be summed up with that. I have a, I have an overwhelming passion for um building healthy relationships between teachers and students. I mean, it's just teachers are stressed out now and one of the ways of helping them distress and or lower that stress is to be in an environment of culture that's comfortable, that's welcoming.

And it's tough to do that when the relationships are sour and toxic. So if there's anything else, I need to know, just know that I'm an advocate for helping you build a healthy environment in your classroom. I love the grounding in the healthy, I love the grounding in the relationships. And I also really appreciate it in your book. You talk about it. It's actually, yeah, Dres for teachers to be in positive, healthy relationships with students, right? It's, it's not just benefiting the students, it's benefiting everyone, which I think is great at a time of, you know, teacher retention being really low and there's, it's a really high stress job. So it really is, I mean, one of the things I say in the book and it was a shock when I learned this stat uh is, is that when officers are involved in shootings or tragic accidents, they literally get an opportunity or it's mandated for them to take some time off to even possibly get some mental and emotional support. Whereas when teachers, they have to go right back to the classroom.

And I'm saying, wow, and it's just, you know, there is a, we need, we need some help in this industry. The world needs to see us a little bit differently than what the, what we are we need help out here. Wow, what a, what a really interesting framing of that. Absolutely. I think every teacher and student should have mandated counseling. Like I think that would be like free access to counseling. I go to counseling every Friday, every single Friday. Now, my counseling may not be the traditional sit on the couch or talk with someone, but golf is my, I exhale. I relax. I get rid of the problems of the world for five hours. You can't call me. I'm not trying to call you. I mean, I mean, everybody's got to have a healthy way of just getting rid of the dirt from the world. And for me it's golf. Now, I, I, I'll do some professional therapy too, but for me it's golf.

Every Friday, every Friday. Unless something else is going on. Oh, that's beautiful. Yeah. If I don't start my day with like a run or a swim or something, it's just like I can't, we're not. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta find your thing unless you're gonna end up strangling. There. There was a song back in the day. Uh and the lyric to the song with Don't Push Me cause I'm close to the edge. I mean that should be the teacher's mantra right there. So right now we gotta find some way to destress yours as you say is a quick run. It could be a, some nice coffee before work. It could be, you know, exercise at your favorite gym, minus golf, whatever it is. Get it in. Yeah. Oh What a beautiful message to start with. So I think there's so much beauty in, in the book that you, you bring in from the, from the destress, you know, teachers and, and all of this that we've already been talking about too like the, the equitable impacts and the, the justice impacts for students when we do all this stuff.

Well, right. And so one of the first questions I asked is usually, you know, Doctor Patina writes about freedom dreaming in this gorgeous way. She says their dreams grounded in the critique of injustice. And so, right, I just love that phrasing and and I think about that for all the dreams we hold for education. So with that, what is, what is that dream for you, for education? The dream for me is to create a culture where performance based relationships rule, uh where teachers don't consider themselves as that one dimensional term teaching. It's just too one dimensional, but they really see themselves as life coaches. Uh It's the reason why I chose the name coach Carlos. I don't do that just for branding and for hype, I want to carry a coach's mindset and a coach looks at its players, his or her players in ways. How do I get the best out of this individual player so that we all can win?

And it my dream would be to have teachers adopt that coach's mindset so that they can indeed build healthy relationships based on performance in the classroom. Yes, I love this phrase, performance based relationships. And I know you get into that in the book quite a bit describing like what it's not what it is. Is there anything else you wanna say in terms of a definition or to kind of situate it in like what we often see in classes that is not performance based relationships. Well, um, every, every relationship is based on performance. There's not one relationship that we have. That's even if you were, ee, even if you had a coffee cup in front of you, that relationship with your coffee cup is based on performance. I mean, if it didn't keep your coffee hot and keep it, keep the heat away from your hand, you wouldn't use it. Uh Every relationship is based on performance. Um What I really want to emphasize in the book when, whenever I'm talking is that it's OK for us to be in performance based relationships.

We all are. But what does that performance look like? And what are we saying? And let's be clear with the relationships I have with parents, that's a performance based relationship. I want the parents to know, hey, I'm not, I wanna be your friend but it's not based on, it's based on my performance as a school administrator. It's based on your performance as an engaged parent. Let's measure each other that way. So at the, when, when you hear me, when you read it in the book, when, whenever you hear me say performance based, we're all in a performance based relationship. I don't, I don't know if we articulate it well enough. I don't know if we unpack it well enough. And then lastly, I certainly don't see, I don't see us evaluating our performances in such a way that it's not. And I got you. Oh, I got you. You didn't do that? Right. No, let's evaluate our performances so that we can support one another. And that's the way I look at it.

Yeah, there's so much, I mean, there's so much I want to get into, in your book. I might skip over my typical questions. But I think one of the things I really like is this idea of family partnership or parent partnership that you talk about. And I, I wonder if you can kind of talk us through this idea of like you talk about defining meaningful minimums, for example. And one of the things that really stuck out, I think I wrote an exclamation mark next to this when I was reading was that that parents sometimes when asked, they say, well, we don't even know the definition of what partnership is for you, right? How do we engage? Like, what does that look like on your end? And so I never even realized like as a, as a parent myself, right? Like I was like, oh, yeah, like, what is that engagement look like? I would love that answer. So I, I don't know if you want to walk us through any of that stuff around family partnership as connected to the relationships you brought up. I think that section of the book was brilliant. Yes, certainly. Let's, let's do that, that we're, I mean, we're at a crisis.

Now, every district is now we're at a crisis now with having the amount of people, the amount of bodies, the amount of instructors needed to have a healthy culture in the school. So that instruction can go forth where, I mean, every school, I'm in the number of substitute teachers if you will, is increasing. So what does a faithful teacher who gets up every single morning has her lesson plan ready? Who goes into the school? What does she do when she's always shorthanded? She gets there today and the administrator may have to say, well, Mr or Mrs Johnson is not here today. So we need to combine your class with theirs. We need help. So one of the best obvious places to get help is from parents. I mean, parents have got to be a part of the solution. We've got to have partnerships with them that are healthy and that are uh that are performance based.

Um So when I talk about parents being a part of the process, I mean, let's, I mean, let's be real about this. Students spend somewhere around 1300 hours per year with us. Wow. I don't know about you, Lindsay. But I've got, don't you tell anybody? I said this but I got a couple of friends who don't spend $1300 with their kids every day, every year. I mean, I mean, there, there, there are some parents who don't spend $1300. So, if we're gonna spend that much time with your child, what I say to parents, what I say to districts is that, let's do this. Right. Let's get this, let's get this partnership, this Copart thing. Uh Right. And oftentimes we, we have to take responsibility for the fact that we're not showing parents how to be a part of the process. I love this phrasing around co parenting. I think that's really fun and it is $1300. I think about my child in daycare right now.

And I'm like, oh, that daycare day is long, like, I, you know, I see him for like a couple hours a day during the week, right? Like, absolutely. And, and so I think about this and, and I, I love that you um you talk about the domino effect and, and the different things that you can do to kind of think about where, where we start, right? In terms of like, OK, we, we analyze the systems and we're like, we need to do something about this. Like, what is, what's the first place that you would suggest a leader listening to this kind of uh moves following this episode? Like what's, what's that first step? And then where do we go from there? Wow, great question. I love when we talk about the dominoes. I mean, that's a, that's a very, I'm from Michigan and um because of that, I've under, I, I have a, a keen understanding on how geometric progression works because we're a factory town and you had to know something about how, how, how it worked around there and what we learned very quickly, whether we call the geometric progression, whether we call it the domino theory, whether we call it the momentum, whatever what we learned very on as kids is that, you know, you, you start on this end of the supply chain and that thing carried supplies all the way down the assembly line.

Well, school is just like that. So when I'm working with, with uh school leaders, when I'm working with teachers, o oftentimes as they should be, they're looking at the end of the assembly line, they're looking at that big domino that they've got to knock down whether it be attendance, whether it be academics, whether it be behavior, whether it be school culture, that's the big domino. And that's OK. Put that big domino out there but don't attack the big domino. Let's find all the interrelated activities to that domino and then go all the way down to the smallest activity, line them up. And just like how Dominoes work, knock over the smallest one and that smallest one will hit the bi the next one will hit the next one, the largest one. And what we know from the Domino theory is that every domino can knock over the corresponding domino that is 50% its its weight or height.

So a small thing, knocks over a larger thing, that larger thing locks over a larger thing and that knocks over a larger thing. So when we do the exercise that my P DS and things like that, I literally take them from the big domino. What's your big domino? Well, it's attendance. Coach Carlos. Ok. Let's look at attendance. Now, let's back. What's the next thing that affects attendance? What's the next thing that affects attendance? And we go all the way down to the smallest thing and ultimately what we know from John Hattie and his research and by the way, John Hattie is crazy. I don't, I don't know how that guy does the research he does. I mean, that guy is crazy. I mean, the way he does uh the amount of research that he's given us a visible learning. I, I love his, his, his, his new revision. Uh he started off, I think around 100 and 95 strategies that had a different effect sizes. Now he's up to like 295 or somewhere around there. But what hasn't changed is the fact that all of those strategies they center around me being in relationship with you and vice versa.

It just doesn't work if you don't like me, I don't like you. There's no way for us to do any of those strategies. So uh if you look at his, his recent revision, his holy grail is uh CTE which is collective teacher efficacy. Um So that's just saying that the teachers believe in the uh ability of their students to complete the work. That's relationship. Lindsay, that's relationship. So the smallest domino in every school is, do you like the kids? Do the kids like you that changes the game? Now, how, how do we get to building those relationships? That's where the strategies come in is how do you build relationships with kids? How do you build relationships with parents? Um And that's where the, the work at, but you can't get there if you don't first mentally believe that I've got to care something about these kids and vice versa. Yeah, I love this idea of belief. It reminds me a lot of like adaptive leadership theory and stuff of like the root cause is often a belief, right?

And so when we get to that place, like I often do like a root cause analysis with schools, you know, when there's strategic planning or whatever and it's like if we don't get to the bottom and figure out it's a belief that we hold, then we're not deep enough, right? No, we have, we haven't gotten to the core yet. I mean, this thing is not rocket science in, in the sense that if you are, we are just relationship beings, we're relational and, and, and, and if you, when we want to punish someone, we lock them away and then when we wanna punish them further, even if they're behind bars, we incarcerate them in such a way where you don't get to see anybody that is the ultimate punishment is to deprive someone from a relationship. So if that's the ultimate punishment, it stands to reason that the ultimate pleasure is to be in relationship, that's the ultimate pleasure. And um if, if we, if we can bottle that, then I think we can, we can build some um not stress free stress less, but we can minimize the stress and increase the performance in our classrooms.

I I love that, that place you ended there because I it makes me think of the high why that you talk about. So in terms of a belief, I feel like that's kind of connected because you talk about the purpose, right? For what we do. But then there's also that like that action that moderate levels of cortisol, right? And, and we're like moving into that positive stress. So do you mind talking about that a little bit for a minute? If that was a blessing to me too when I was able to understand that? Because I knew, I mean, for a while, we've been talking about stress, we've been talking about stress and rightfully so. But what we need to add to the conversation is that there is some healthy stress out here, there's some good stress. I can't think of any important achievement that I've ever made. Like this book took me three years to write. It took me three years. That was stressful, but it was a good stress. It wasn't, it wasn't something that was overwhelming. It wasn't something that I was, my heart was, you know, I had to get on heart medication because of it.

It was, it was a good stress and, and what we know from the medical, communicate uh from the community is that there is a very dangerous stress and that is identified as distress. Everybody knows that. And that makes sense. We all have been there, but there is a corresponding healthy stress called you stress. That's the one we want, we want to be in that space of you stress because that you stress is what as the basis for accomplishment, that is what gets us moving. That's what changes and that's what transforms. So I'm ok with there being some stress in the classroom, I'm OK with there being some uh kids being under a little bit of stress as long as they're under stress in a healthy environment and they're not distressed. II, I love that section of the book. And I, I also like that you, you named that if there's too little stress, right?

Then then it goes towards like depression or right, we're not functioning there either. Yeah, I think about looking out at a classroom of students who, who fall into the whole continuum, right? We often have students who are like the head down like I don't, you know, I'm not doing and then we have the students who are like, so stressed out about accomplishing the thing and doing the task and, and then we have students in the middle who are like that healthy stress and it's like if we could just get everyone to that place, that's it. That's it. That's it right there. That, that'll move the needle. And that's what Angela Duckworth talks about in her book Grit. I love that book Grit. And we don't in schools, we don't talk about, we talk about it but we don't implement her values and her research enough because we want to, in a good way. We wanna protect Children and I understand that. But Children have a, they're a lot more resilient than we give them credit for. But it, it has to be under the oversight of a healthy adult who is just like a master chef in the kitchen.

Who knows how to turn up the flame here. But no, don't cook it too long. But let me turn the flame up a little bit over here. But then let me, but this kid over here, oh I can turn the flame up cause they can take it. But this kid over here I better turn the flame down a little bit but you've gotta know it. You a, a master chef knows the appropriate temperature that every food cooks at. And master teachers understand that. Or as I call master coaches. They understand they can, uh, a coach, a teacher who's a coach will look at me and say, Carlos, I know you can do better and I am not letting you get away with that level of work and, and will proceed to push me a little harder and, but also encourage me because they know, ah, he can handle that kind of stress, he can do it. But that takes a teacher who is not just someone who was regurgitating what they learned, but someone who says, I've looked at this child, I understand them. They can have. Yes.

And I, I love that. I love the idea that we have to first know all of our kids right to be able to do well by them. And so I'm wondering if there, you have so many strategies in the book. So I'm wondering if there's either a favorite strategy or something that you're, you're thinking of that's really successful in schools that you've worked with as that kind of relationship builder or, or way of getting to know all of your students. Yeah. Well, the first thing is, and, and, and, and teachers, educators, administrators listen to me, take a look at your butt first, take some time and look at your butt. And what, and what I mean by that is we have too many butts in our heads. We've got too many butts and the k, the three key buts that I have found or really the, the, the two key buts the other one is, is what the coach says, but the, the two key buts that prevent us from really engaging students, uh, is that we tell ourselves these stories that prevent us from really engaging and building a relationship.

So I would engage a relationship with this child, but I would engage in a relationship with this child. But, and those butts have got to get out the way. So teachers get your butt out the way. All right, we've got to get those butts out the way. But the two, the, the two biggest butts are, um, this kid, this kid could learn but they are not competent enough to do. So, there's still those of us in our industry who believe in some of those archaic philosophies that genetically, some kids just don't have it. They still believe in some of the fallacies of the bell curve. They still believe in some of the din uh, philosophies. We still have some that are still around. And so they, they feel like they can look at a child and assess that. Oh, yeah, that child won't make it here. They, they, they can't make it in this building nor in my class. That's a, but that will prevent them from truly engaging that child.

Um, the second. But is the cultural but, and that, but is when we tell ourselves, we just don't connect to that child because they don't talk the way I talk and I'm not just talking about ethnicity, but what I'm talking about are our personal biases and prejudices. You know, I would connect with that child but I don't connect with that child. But there, there's something about the single parents that you, you know, single parents do this s kids who come from parents who smoke weed, do that or whatever their butts are, their cultural biases are. And those two butts I find limit a, an administrator or educator's willingness, not ability, but their willingness to enter into a relationship with the child. And if they can get those butts out the way and become a coach, they'll be fine.

So that's that, that strategy right there. Strategy. Number one, you can't go much further if your mindset is stuck in. Oh, I can look at these 30 kids and I can already tell you the ones who won't survive. You know, I can look at these kids already and they're all, you know, I, there's a reason why I don't connect with Carlos because, you know, he doesn't have the right color eyes or he doesn't have the right diction with his language. Um But if a teacher can get past those, anybody can learn from him or her. Yeah, that's, I, I really appreciate how you break that down in the book and you give several examples of, of what the, the cultural, but specifically could, could look like. Um including, like, political beliefs. Right? Like, like, I, I think a lot of those were really, like, helpful for me to read through and be like, oh, yeah, I recognize those moments in class when I was like, I have a very different view of, like, what this policy should be and the student disagrees with me. Like, I feel the disconnect or I feel the connect because I agree with.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, sorry, go ahead. No, no, I was just vibing with you. That's one of the things that I was thinking about too is like, sometimes we have these cultural pieces where teachers who are like minded in that way, they share the same butts. Maybe, you know, they, they say things in a meeting or we hear something, maybe uh just person to person, we overhear in the teachers lounge or whatever and, and we can then step in and identify that and to be on the lookout for those phrases that people will sometimes speak out loud and you're just like this kid can't learn, they shouldn't be here like, ok, red flag. Let's, let's address it. And I think as a leader just being attuned to those phrases, I think would be so helpful. Now that right there might be a nice little add on book right there. The phrases to watch out for that might be your book right there. Yeah, because you're right when you, when those, when those phrases subconsciously come out someone's mouth then that lets you know right there that they're going to have difficulty building relationships with certain types of populations and that's what's going to hold.

And consequently, if you look at the numbers of kids who excel or don't, I guarantee you they're in line with their butts. Hey, everyone. It's Lindsay. Just jumping in to talk about our episode. Freebie coach Carlos and I talk a lot about culture in this episode, which is typically an adaptive challenge or an adaptive thing we talk about. So go ahead and grab my adaptive challenges mini work. We at the blog post for this episode, Lindsay, Beth lions.com/blog/one 50. Back to the episode. They're, they're right in line with those butts. So it's a, you know, it that right there if we could, that, that one strategy right there, understanding what your butts are can really catapult um a, a an educator into building healthy relationships with the majority of their kids. One of the things that really, um I would say kind of gives an example of this is again, iii I no longer live in Michigan, but I have Michigan roots.

So I, I tell the story about oftentimes having to go out in, in the uh winter time and get in and start my car and in Michigan, if it snowed real bad and your car was outside, it may not start no more. So, so this one time I went out to stop my car. It did not start and I had to call AAA and AAA came out and I, I told the guy that, hey, I was able to turn the radio on, I was able to turn the lights on. Um, so I don't understand why it wouldn't work. He got the car started and what he shared with me then really helped me understand some of the disconnects with us and, and kids. And that is what he shared with me is that there are some functions in the car that only need a small voltage to operate. But if you want that engine to turn over and you want it to roar, you need a strong battery to engage it.

Kids are like that. There are some kids who just need a little bit of juice and their lights will come on. There are some kids who just need a little bit of juice and the radio will start. But then there are others, they need a stronger boost. They just, they need a stronger charge and that's what we're for. We're the battery and we sometimes have to hook up our juice to their battery and give them a charge. But it's hard for a teacher to be able to do that if their battery is low, you know, if they're low and that's why we have to, we, we've gotta, we've gotta take, we gotta take care of teachers too. We can, they can't, we can't send, send sick people into a sick room and ask them to make those in there. Well, oh, I, I, that is so good. And I, I think about that from like a leader perspective. I worked in a school, uh, a network of schools once they're their model, one of their uh pieces of their model was one learning model for all.

So it was like, the teachers are expected to do the same things that we expect the students to do, right? And so it's kind of like the leader, supporting the staff and the staff and supporting students, right, in the same format. And so I think about that from that perspective as well, right? The teacher, sometimes we just need, we just need different degrees of juice or like, you know, this one class is coming in like I need a little bit more juice right now. You know who that class is too. My third hour class when they get here. Oh man, I need some help. I need some help. No, I'm I'm right there with you. I'm right there with you and you gotta, you know, you've gotta wherever you get that juice from, wherever you get that energy from. Uh And that's why you have to have different strategies, different techniques to um to empower. You might use um one of the power moves in one room, you might use one of the power moves in another room. You might have to use different things. And particularly if you have that one class, like you were saying this class right here and I, and they, and, and they're at the part of the day when my battery is low already and they're coming in here.

Oh, man, I need some help. So, yeah, you have to have, you gotta have strategies already preloaded and ready to go. I love like all the various things we've talked about is there one thing that you want to leave people with before we get to kind of our closing questions that they should kind of hold on to after this episode. Oh, wow. Um We talked about so many one things. Uh So you're, you know, you, you're putting, you're putting it out of me today. We talked about, I mean, really, it's, it's, I mean, if nothing else, the mindset you, we've got to start with the mindset that every kid that you see in your building in your classroom deserves the best version of you. They deserve the best version of you. How we get, how we get to that now is where the conversation really begins because I feel bad for uh instructional teams where someone like me walks in, I would never do this but somebody like me walks in and do a PD and we pretty much make them feel like the kids aren't learning because of them.

You know, they're not learning because if you do da da da, da, da, da, da da. And there are some things that we need to be better at. Uh but it's holistic kids have got to come to school ready. Parents have got to come to school ready. Uh Everybody's got to help out in this process that just makes me think of like as a leader asking the question to your staff at the next staff meeting, right? Like how do I help you show up as your best version of yourself? Right? I mean, like just a quick entry point to get us thinking about that. Yeah, that's that one, right? There is a question. I think that'll work right there. You, you hear that leader, she gave you a nugget there. So the final questions, I really like this next one and it is purely for fun. So it does not have to relate to your job or education at all. But it can, what is something that you have been learning about lately? Wow. What I've been learning about lately is I'm a performance psychology buff. I, I'd love to understand what makes people jump higher, what makes people run faster? And here's one, here's a nugget for everybody we all need.

There was this is it, there was this experiment with a mouse as it always is, they tied a spring to the, to the tail of the mouse. Um And they measured, they wanted to measure the force that he used to pull the string. So they put him in this tube and the front of the tube, they uh blew in the smell of cheese and watch this mouse pull on this spring to get to the smell of that cheese. Then they said, OK, how much harder will we pull? Would the mouse pull if we, at the same time, we, we blew in the smell of cheese in the front of the tube. At the same time, we blew in the smell of a cat at the back of the tube. How much harder would he pull? What we www what, what, what the uh performance psychologist found out with that experiment or theorized from this experiment is that high performers need both.

We don't need just what we're chasing after. We also need something that we're running from for maximum effort. We need both. It just can't be the higher paycheck. You know, if we, uh if we get these grades up, we get a bonus at the end of the year. That's the smell of the cheese. That's good. You want that? But you also want the smell of the cat at the back. It's almost like we endured. I gue I guess you wanna say endured, but we had no child left behind. If you were around when that came out, there were people were upset about it. People were happy about it. But the fact of the matter is our President Bush at that time and the Secretary of Education thought that he would, they would come in with a stick to schools that say if kids didn't do this, didn't do that. Here's your stick. The following. President Barack Obama, he chose a different route and I'm not saying one is better than the other, but here's a prime example of the cheese and the cat Barack Obama came with race to the top.

His deal was show me that you can get kids to learn and I'll give you more money. So, whichever one now, if we could have had both of them operating at the same time, maybe we would have saw some magic in education. But what we do know about human beings is that if we want maximum performance, we need both. We need to chase after the cheese, but we need the smell of the cat. So, so that's my, that's what I do in my spare time. Oh, I love it. Oh, this is so good. Now, I need to research more performance psychology stuff. It's a great, great study. Um I think the last question, I just, I think a lot of listeners are gonna want to learn more about you, connect with you follow what you do online and in all the places. So where would you recommend they get in touch with you or see the work that you do? So there are two places real easy. You can go to Carlos johnson.org. That's real easy. You can go there, you can go to everywhere from that place, my social media links and everywhere or go straight to my site and you'll see my three key programs that's power engaged for, for instructional teams.

That's future man prep for uh helping boys learn in a safe environment in school. Uh And then also power parenting you what I do for parents and you can go there at Image of success.com, Image of success.com. So either one of those two places you can find me brilliant and we'll link to all those in the show notes too. So if you're driving, don't worry, they'll be there. Oh, Coach Carlo. Thank you so much. This is such a great conversation. I appreciate you. Thank you. Great conversation with you all. You and I can do this anytime I say we, we're Kendrick spirits. Agreed. Strongly agreed. All right, be blessed. Now, if you like this episode, I bet you'll be just as jazz as I am about my coaching program for increasing student led discussions in your school, Shane, Sapir and Jamila Dugan talk about a pedagogy of student voice in their book street data. They say students should be talking for 75% of class time. Do students in your school talk for 75% of each class period? I would love for you to walk into any classroom in your community and see this in action if you're smiling to yourself as you listen right now grab 20 minutes on my calendar to brainstorm.

How I can help you make this big dream a reality. I'll help you build a comprehensive plan from full day trainings and discussion protocols like circle and Socratic seminar to follow up classroom visits where I can plan witness and debrief discussion based lessons with your teachers. Sign up for a nerdy no strings attached to brainstorm. Call at Lindsay, Beth lions.com/contact. Until next time, leaders think big act brave and be your best self. This podcast is a proud member of the Teach Better Podcast Network. Better today, better tomorrow and the podcast to get you there, explore more podcasts at teach better.com/podcasts and we'll see you at the next episode.

150. Building Healthy, Performance-Based Relationships with Coach Carlos Johnson
150. Building Healthy, Performance-Based Relationships with Coach Carlos Johnson
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