I'm thrilled for you to hear from a guest today. Abby Corman Abby is awaits this hat woman with 12 years experience in education in her community in the bay area of California. She started her career at a comprehensive high school for five years, teaching up to three new, perhaps each year in classes of 36. Then Abby took a job at the county honor camp teaching incarcerated boys for two years burned by systems. Abby took a break from teaching and worked at a local nonprofit running a high school academic success program. Abby returned to the classroom in 2020 and she's now teaching teens reading at an elementary level and focusing on building community and highlighting student brilliance at the district level. She's using her whiteness and other privileges to make change from within the system by amplifying the needs of her community through policy. She's also focusing on self care to stay in the game long term. Let's hear from Abby Korman. I'm educational justice coach Lindsey Lyons and here on the time for teacher ship podcast, we learn how to inspire educational innovation for racial and gender justice design curricula grounded in student voice and build capacity for shared leadership. I'm a former teacher leader turned instructional coach.

I'm striving to live a life full of learning, running, baking, traveling and parenting because we can be rockstar educators and be full human beings if you're a principal assistant superintendent, curriculum director, instructional coach or teacher who enjoys nursing out about co creating curriculum with students. I made this show for you. Here we go. Abby Corman, Welcome to the time for teacher ship podcast. Thanks so much, I'm excited to be here, I'm excited you're here. And so to start us up, I just finished reading your professional bio, but do you want to add anything or say anything that really helps to really introduce yourself to our audience, helps to explain what it is you do, who you are. Sure I'm gonna stay focused on the professional side. Um but something that's been kind of new for me, as I mentioned in my bio, I've had a couple of different jobs in the past 11 years and I'm newly back into teaching. I started in the pandemic last august um and I started with this new lens feeling really empowered and focusing on balance and self care and I needed that coming back into teaching and I found a community online.

Um we were in the pandemic anyway and that community is called Teachers for Good Trouble and its founder is Alfred Chevy brooks, his handles at Call me Chevy um and I'm gonna highlight them later today and they're probably gonna come up a bunch, so that's why I just really wanted to add this has been really this empowering space for me, a space of community um healing and has helped me move toward being the teacher I want to be. Um so I just wanted to really highlight and shout them out at the beginning of the podcast because it has helped frame my reentry into teaching um and had me questioning and changing a lot in my classroom awesome, thank you so much for that. And so I think this is a really exciting question for me and I draw it from Dr Bettina loves the work and she talks about freedom dreaming in the following way. She says, you know, their dreams grounded in the critique of injustice. And so I'm really curious to know, considering that framing what is the big dream that you hold for the field of education, awesome.

So even before I answer that, but I have some exciting ideas from it. I just wanna name dr Patina loves book, I want to do more than survive. Um I did in a book club with folks from teachers for good trouble um at black girls teach deidre fogarty and um at the insightful teacher, um Rakeem Jenkins led a group of us through this book and My mind was blown right. All this history that I did not know about. Um when we integrated 38,000 teachers and black teachers and principals lost their job, right? And just this framing so many things had me rethinking and it was so appreciative, I was so appreciative of this book and the space to break down. So first, like I love that this is your first question if folks haven't read um Dr love's book, they gotta get in there, follow the abolition of speaking network on instagram donate, Have a bunch of workshops.

So likely that is where my heart is. So, I love this question. Um and that framing if people are interested in, I want them to check out that book. Um So for me, I'm gonna name some of my freedom dreams. One is a couple of them come out of all teachers for good trouble. We have this as a dream. We want a national teacher minimum wage, we want pay raises, we're saying 75 K minimum starting salary. We're educated, right? We have all these these degrees and we have teachers who are struggling to pay the rent. Working side, hustles multiple jobs. Um Teachers for the trouble. We also want free mental health services for all students and all teachers. If I had had a therapist, my first five years of teaching, I probably wouldn't have left the way that I did. And now I have a therapist, but I pay out of pocket. Sorry, that was the school bell. I'm at school. Um I pay out of pocket.

Um I this is an issue I continually fight for at my school. Um They give us those E A. P. Um services referral. You get three paid for therapy sessions. If you're in therapy, you know, three sessions is not enough, especially when we're facing dealing with this vicarious trauma from our students all day every day and then our own lived trauma, right? And then the 3rd and 4th thing that teachers for good trouble really believes in is the pandemic really showed us. Um, Wifi is a basic right? It's a need all teachers and students should get that for free, especially when we were working from home last year. How can they expect to do that? I know the majority of the teachers I know had to somehow upgrade out of their own paycheck. Some sort of tech needs specifically Wifi, right? Because if you get kicked out, then the whole class gets kicked out of your zoom. Um, and uh, diverse teaching staff, right? I think the numbers are around like upwards of 80% of our teachers are white women, which is not representative of our country, um, which does a lot of harm to our students.

So that's kind of um, are stated freedom dreams in um, teachers for good trouble. We also want to eliminate standardized testing. It's tied to capitalism, There's, it's a billion dollar industry. It does not measure our students accurately in any way. Um, it's biased and it does, it also does a lot of harm, personally, I hope there's a lot, there's a lot wrong in education Lindsay. So I also, um, have a lot of hope for our teacher and our teacher Ed programs. Um, I feel like in our teacher Ed programs, teachers need to be explicitly trained and pot and reflect on their own biases, their own trauma and how that can show up in the classroom. We need to understand the different the matrix of oppression and all of the different ways that we play into that, especially being a teacher, we have so much power and authority in our schools and how that can play out in the classroom.

I I personally believe every teacher needs to be able to say black trans lives matter, everybody's lives matter, but explicitly that, and if teachers can't say that, I don't think they should. Teachers in the classroom, I want all of our students to feel seen, heard and loved that their education is valuable to them. And that's on the teachers, not students, right, That's on the school structure, that's not about the students, that's about what we've been doing in the classroom. It does not resonate with our students. And really what that means is a lot of our structures have to change so that our students are actually at the center instead of money instead of adult comfort instead of white supremacy. Um, I think the way to get there is gonna have to be through civic engagement, a lot of us standing up and speaking up. And so then I also hope for that, that is amazing. I love that list. I think it is way more comprehensive than initially people come in with, you know, an idea or so.

And I love how comprehensive it is, and also how it draws from your work with other teachers who have been engaged in this work, who have been reading, dr love's book, you know, I think this is so powerful and I love that we're going to continue to shout them out because this group sounds really phenomenal and just having those conversations, and I love that you added your own personal ones as well, because there's so much like you said wrong with education, that we need to appreciate that. Um I think so many folks who are interested in maybe a bunch of the things that you said and are realizing that they are currently in a system or currently in a school that has so much like historical, traditional ways of doing things that are not all the things that you just said, and they're trying to figure out, you know, how do I operate within that, or how do I bring other folks into that dream? How do I open that up for folks who I work alongside and maybe even share a room with, you know, and I want to bring those folks with me on this, this journey.

I'm thinking a lot about, like, the mindset, the mindset of teachers and the mindset that teacher had programs kind of put into folks that are in the teaching profession. And so what mindset shifts do you think are really required to get people to fight for the stream that you just described? So, for me, I'm need to name, I am a white cis um straight woman um in the classroom and I am the majority, right. And I am also whose school was made for, I thrived in school and I bet most of the teachers who identify like me also thrived in school and it is not because we are inherently smarter or worked harder than any of our peers. It's because the school was made for us and I needed to see that and my whiteness before I could be effective in the classroom, that was really powerful for me.

That was work I did in undergrad. Even seeing my whiteness, I didn't even know that was a thing because I lived in my white bubble and nobody ever really needed to talk about my race. I knew there were racist, but I didn't know about how power, so many different levels of power tied to race. I knew there was racism. I didn't know I knew my grandpa got the G I. Bill, but I didn't know other folks of color, veterans of color didn't get the G I. Bill right. That's that critical race theory. I wasn't actually taught how race and class and all of these other identity markers kind of um overlaid onto power structures and our society is set up structurally to benefit white folks, right? So that had to be my 1st 1st mindset shift. We do not have 80% plus of white women teachers because they're the best teachers, not saying we're bad teachers right?

But there's a reason why. Okay, same thing too with this idea of the achievement gap, I want us to get rid of that term. We need to ask why. And it is not because our students of color are not as smart as our white students or our affluent students. That's not why that's a lazy answer. Right? That is not thinking about social political context of our country. We have an education debt. Our students who are struggling who are performing lower on these tests. When these tests are biased, they're bad, throw them out. But even if we have strong assessments that we believe in teachers for trouble isn't saying get rid of all assessments and have no tests. It's have purposeful individualized meaningful tests for students that aren't biased that are vetted, right? Not by corporations trying to get money, but by real teachers on the ground. Right? How much curriculum is not made by actual even teachers and policy?

And so this this idea that we owe a lot to our students in this country are under resourced, like lower achieving students are in that position because because we set them up in that position, our schools in certain neighborhoods are underfunded. I know my students in this area have had multiple subs year after year after year. So it's particularly in math and reading and their math and reading skills are so much lower. Is that their fault? Absolutely not. That's the system working against them. So a lot of those mindset shifts come around like structural power, recognizing we're part of a system and asking why and not taking that lazy answer and a lot of it. So that's the, that big picture nationally, structurally globally.

And then also the other mindset shift I think people need is so much is about reflecting about yourself. It's really hard for me. In the, in like the staff lounge in my first couple of years, hearing teachers say like, oh that's seven period class, they're so bad for me. If you're having trouble in your classroom, that's on you, your job is to teach whoever is in front of you exactly where they meet them, where they're at and take them to where they need to go. So if things aren't working, you need to go home and reflect for yourself. You need to find community and talk it out because you need to make changes in your classroom. You need to see what's going on within you and how you're reacting and thinking and structuring lessons. So I think that second piece mindset shift is looking back at yourself.

If things are going wrong, what can you do differently? We're gonna make mistakes, we make thousands of decisions in split seconds what mistakes, sorry the bell, what are you gonna reflect on and change and not put it on the students. Yeah, I think that's such a good point. I think about the strategic planning work I've done with districts and it can be immensely frustrating to hear leaders talking about, oh if only the families did this, if only the students did this. And it's like what is within our locus of control here? Like we need to be focused on us and our, like what we control what we are able to do. Like not even to get into all the other issues that are wrong with saying things like it is the families, it is the students right like, but like even just what is within our control, like why wouldn't we start there? And so I really appreciate that you naming that and I really appreciate that you are speaking to about your own journey. And I think that really resonates with me matching many of the identity markers that you shared as well about yourself.

Like that is also the journey that really helped me come to justice centered teaching and student voice and all of the things I'm passionate about. If if I hadn't gone through that and I hadn't had the ability in the community to help me move through that in the way that was possible in the way that you've spoken to, it would be a very, I would be a very different teacher would be in a very different place. My students would have a very different experience. And so I think that's so important that you're meaning that this is a personal journey we need to each individually go on and support each other to go on as well. So I really loved that answer that you just gave. And so and I think you're kind of speaking to to the next question I want to ask, which is about those brave action. So what are those brave actions that leaders can take? You kind of started talking about that a little bit already? Are there things you would add in terms of someone who's listening? Like, yeah, I'm buying into everything you're saying, I'm head nodding along, you know, what can I do tomorrow, next week, this year um to actually put that into practice and really improve myself as a professional. Sure.

So for me, um my work began, you know, first year teaching, I taught three new preps. I was working till like 9:30 p.m. Every night or later getting kicked out of the classroom by custodial staff. MS Gorman, it's time you got to leave coming in on Saturdays. I was working so much. I was doing a lot in my classroom and I think that's the first place to be brave, right? You're gonna make mistakes, but how can you be vulnerable appropriately right, know your boundaries. Um but if you're asking your students, especially I'm an english teacher in the english classroom, they're going to be sharing a lot about themselves. Like I I believe I need to show them the same respect and earlier and first and model that vulnerability for them. Um, the kinds of conversations we have in our classroom, how we structure them were responsible around them. We're not imposing our beliefs on students, but we're also not shying away from the truth of the reality of the world.

Um, so I think for me, in the beginning of my journey, I was really brave in my classroom and I started to try and take steps outside of my classroom. I saw things happening that were unfair for my students. I started speaking up and I kept getting shut down at my site. I'd try, I'd go, I was on like the site leadership team, we'd identify an issue, the teachers would get together, put in all this extra work, we'd research stuff, we'd find a result. We'd say we need to do this and then nothing would happen from administration. Right? And for lots, for a variety of reasons, but it was really deflating to me. It was really hard for me to know I had all this control in my classroom, I actually knew what my students needed because I was the one seeing them every single day, right? And then when I would try and go bigger outside of my classroom, I was just shut down. So I tried different means.

Okay, I was on the site leadership team that didn't work, okay, I'm gonna try and go to my union. Okay. No, that didn't work. Okay. I'm gonna try and like build this community of my friends and we're gonna support each other from different disciplines. We're gonna try and like tell all of our department chairs and like and then hope they bring it up to the next level, right? But like at school there's so much bureaucracy, it's like okay, I'm a teacher, I have to tell my department here and then I hope they tell the vice principal and then I hope they tell the principal and then I hope it goes to the district and then I hope it's like nobody's hearing me at the top and that was a big part of why I left. And so coming back into teaching I think is where I'm being my bravest right now and again, that's with this community that's really helped. I think the pandemic, the multiple pandemics we're facing, right? Not just around um Covid we're all facing and particularly our black students and our students of color. During the pandemic. I found Alfred Chevy brooks called me Chevy and Teachers for Good trouble, which is the organization he founded.

Um and it helped me have this community to recognize and see spaces where I could be braver and the pandemic again I want to talk about, I'll go back to is like not just Covid certainly Covid we were all at home and we were on social media but racism in our country is a pandemic, right? And last summer we saw George Floyd on mars are very, we saw um Brianna taylor, so many um unarmed black folks being murdered by our police um that our students were also seeing every day and facing and then not having it be addressed in their classrooms a lot of the time. Also a lot of our students and our country were facing like this economic pandemic crisis, right, stimulus packages kind of unemployment kind of, I know a majority of my students moved at least once last year.

Um they also live in multi family homes. I live in the bay Area, it costs three grand to have a one bedroom apartment here. And so there are homes my students live in in east Palo alto, the cheapest area, but multiple families live in that home and every family gets a room and they share the kitchen's right. And then also we're having a climate crisis, We live in California, it's a climate pandemic. We have fire season one of my former students liam Qatar is a cow fire now and we literally employ people six months of the year every year because we know we're gonna have these terrible fires and we're not doing that much to get out ahead of it as a country, as a, as a, as a world, right? And so again, these four pandemics are not mine, these are named by Gloria lads and Billings, but this idea there's a lot wrong, right and I truly believe that education is a place of transformation can be right, but, but we need to make it so, and so I felt even more responsibility in this pandemic, wow, I'm teaching, I'm guiding my students.

I might be one of their only contacts during the pandemic there. Seeing me every day, I had almost perfect attendance every day because I have tiny cock sizes and I felt really strong relationships with my students paying attention. So all of the things that they were probably facing right. And so then as a teacher, you really know all the, if you're building those relationships, there's a lot your students are facing and it's, it weighed heavy on my heart. It made me really want to do even more than what I was already doing, but I didn't know how and I didn't want to be, I didn't want to face what I had faced previously in my previous seven years of people, which was working really, really hard against things I didn't believe in, but then burning out because nothing actually changed. And so what that looks like, what being brave looks like now for me being inspired by folks and the teachers for good trouble um community is I started showing up to every single board meeting and not just showing up, but speaking preparing ahead of time, I'm not good on the spot.

So I prepare my little thing I time myself, I had all of the documents sent to me. I had to learn about board meetings in the first place, I realize no one's going there and that's actual, no one's going to those board meetings. No one except maybe a couple of really well resourced parents who are pushing their specific agenda. Right. But I wanted to be there helping amplify concerns. I was hearing from my colleagues and my students because I felt like it wasn't trickling up. Like I said, I'm going to my department chair and the vice principal and the principal and then hopefully all the way up to the board of trustees. Well, no, I don't have to do that. I'm just gonna go to the board of trustees turns out I can email them at any time. So I started doing that too. I made an anonymous instagram account trying to show this community all the things I've learned. Did you know, we have this board and this is when they meet and you can have this thing emailed to you and who are you going?

And I started making polls and I started um, throwing out the email sales that we were getting by the superintendent. But like wasn't being shared with the community trying to get folks in to the conversation that's happening really without most of us. Where's the power actually in our schools and then go there and try and make the change. But also I had to be strategic. Right? Because I'm not tenured yet. I lost my tenure when I left teaching. So the other space is remembering, I'm in a union and while I tried working with my union in the beginning and I didn't feel like it worked. I wasn't a big fan of my union, although they gave us like good paying, good healthcare comparatively. Um, I didn't feel like I felt like there were a lot of issues they weren't doing well now with teachers for good trouble urging. Like, well my union is only as strong as I make it. So I started pushing my union with a couple of other teachers and then we ended up connecting with our States union.

We ended up getting a training on how we could become this organizing committee within our union. They helped us like almost insert ourselves into our current union structure and push for the things that we want. We want more diverse representation. Our union is also all white, but that doesn't represent our staff, right? So we're pushing for these changes in the district. But then we also need them in our union. But I'm a part of the union. They have to listen to me and they have all these resources. So how can I use my power in the union to change my union and then changed my district. So we started going to these trainings. We built this organizing committee. Even if you're not in a I just learned, I learned last year through teachers for good trouble. There are some states where you're not allowed to unionize, ironically called right to work states. Well, if you're in one of those states, you don't have a union, well you can be a part of any, a national educators association, which is like a union and they have a lot of resources.

They have brands, they have lawyers, write your union has money and the legal protection behind you so that if you're starting to make good trouble, gonna back you up. And so I think that's like a part you gotta also remember to write, um, just for good troubles pushing teachers for good trouble, right? Make some noise, make some good trouble. But there's also strategy behind it, right? And so like using your union, using your board meetings, reaching out to community to help you think through how to send that email, to think through how to say that thing and still push but maybe put in a way where you're actually gonna be heard, right? And so that was also a learning lesson for me. But so I think that the brave actions for me now and what we need is we need people willing to speak up and make good trouble, make people uncomfortable, particularly white people in power uncomfortable.

We need to make hold people accountable. My district actually says all the right things were just at the place of saying, here's what you said, here's our policies, they don't match. We need to change them. Okay. You've been saying you're gonna work on it, but now we have this meeting in March and now it's august. So what's happening, Right? It's that next step of holding them accountable, speaking up regularly to them, um, and pushing and using your privilege where you can write. So also, um, I got letters of rex for this job when I came back into teaching from some pretty high people in our district. Okay, Well, that means I have a strong relationship with them. I also have some strong relationship with administrators, so I'm gonna use that, right? Because some folks who aren't tenured or who don't feel comfortable in this area, they're gonna be less likely to say something well, but I can be a voice.

So we would reach out in our organizing committee and specifically myself to other folks and try and ask what's bothering you, what's an issue for you? We had like student surveys, we would build a lot of relationships with folks and how could I lift up these questions, concerns and issues that other folks had, but they didn't feel comfortable. They didn't have the relation. I didn't have the time. I also work 80%. I have no Children. I have no partner, I have way more time. That's a privilege than other people. I don't have to work a second job even though I do, but I don't have to, so I can pay attention to my hours so I need to you, I believe in teachers for control will also help with this, right? I need to use that privilege to amplify the real concerns to make it be heard to get into the trouble. I got an email from the head of HR asking for a meeting, Right, That is gonna happen.

But I was able to navigate it and it worked out fine. You're gonna get things like that and that means I think you're on the right track. Excellent. Oh my gosh. You just gave so many great suggestions and ways that you are doing things in ways that other listeners maybe could take on and and go do those things. And so as we're kind of closing the episode, I'm wondering from the list of all that stuff that we just talked about and there's so much in there, what is something as a teacher is kind of ending the podcasting? Like, okay, what's my next step with one kind of momentum builder here that I can, can take. Um, what would that step be if you're on instagram and you don't know about teacher graham, that's where you need to focus your time. Okay. Or maybe even if you don't have instagram, get a handle, you don't have to make any posts. You can just follow people. It will help you connect with your students because they're all on instagram to not on facebook, right? And I need you to follow at call me shifty.

He's the founder of teachers for good trouble, donate to his campaign because he practices what he preaches. He is running for office in Atlanta to help bring change to his community because he he has already gone through all the steps. He's like our role model right? First he was speaking up at board meetings and organizing people and he organized us for the trouble and that's the level I'm at right now right. But then he's already at his next level. Once he did that and built this national committee now he's making change structurally in his city. So donate to his campaign also he's running in Atlanta um follow this instagram community. So call me Chevy Teachers for Trouble at Liberation Lab at Black Girls speech um at Yadi Mercedes at call me the identity shaper. There are phenomenal veteran, trauma informed transformative teachers online giving free P.

D. Every day. There's something you can pay for but you go on a live and you listen to one of those folks or some of the others. I'm gonna give lindsey in the show notes, you listen to one instagram live, it's gonna change your perspective. Kalen Lamar talks about teacher self care and teacher boundaries, right? We need pd on that in our district is not giving us that you can find a couple of teachers really strong teachers out there helping you think through that and giving you resources and it's a community, we come to you. It's not just these lives, we have monthly meetings if you want, right. We connect and check in with each other. We branch off and we made like a white affinity group and we read me and White supremacy and White supremacy by Layla Saad. Like I told you we had this book club by black girls teach and the insightful teacher, um, we've had a liberation lab to the book Club. We've done maybe like we've done a bunch of the clubs, we've done a protest. We, we coordinate and work together around issues that we all feel.

We talked earlier lindsey about how sometimes we felt we'd look around and how come nobody at my school is upset about this thing. I feel alone on this island. Okay, well we are in the 21st century folks. There is the Internet. You don't have to feel alone teachers for good trouble is that place where you can find the other teachers at their schools who are alone, who feel like they're the only ones and we're gonna come together and we're gonna support each other because also it's tiring. Right? And so it's inspiring to be a part of this community that refuels you, changes your lens and gives you next steps that are actually practical because there are people are actually out doing them and they can give you the feedback and the ideas and help you work through that messiness in order to make those changes and really move on. So for me this is my community, it has helped me um grow in so many ways and like if I could recommend one thing that that would be it.

Excellent and I love that it's a launching point to for so many other things. So it's it's a beautiful recommendation. Um this question I love asking just for fun. So everyone who comes on the podcast seems to be like a self described lifelong learner. We're committed to personal growth, professional growth and all of that as we go through life. And so I'm just curious to know something that you have been learning about lately. Sure, I just really want to highlight this is kind wasn't really lately, it was last year first I want to highlight, I'm in a non grade level class. All of my high school students read at an elementary reading level and so I had a lot of thoughts around equitable grading practices and also did like a clubhouse chat with teachers for good trouble. Right? So lots going on. Teachers for good trouble. But I spent all last year learning about other forms of grading um to be more equitable in my classroom. A lot of my work outside my learning still ties to teaching and personal growth, my my whole identity.

Um I think I don't really like um categorize or separate, right? It's all, it's all kind of joined together. This gives me life. Um, and so last year I spent a lot of time, my district is really big on standards based grading, but I believe that's um inherently unfair for my students who we already know are not at standard ninth grade or 10th grade standards. So we're dooming them to DSR F before they even step foot in the classroom. So I explored, I was part of an inquiry group um with respect from U. Mass. Amherst and some other folks around the country around what's labor based grading based on effort. What's contract based grading? Um What's grade lys grading? Teachers going grade list. There's a whole movement out there. Right? So I did a lot of learning and reflecting around, like if I have these issues with standardized assessments and just assessments in general, what do my assessments look like?

What is my grade book look like knowing that putting a zero in the grade book is gonna do a tremendous amount of harm versus a 50%. They're both Fs. Right? So last year my learning was really around that. Um, this year my learning is around phones in the classroom. So I'm going into this year, it's really hard right now. I think as educators, it's our job to help students navigate their phones and social media and I'm sick of adults talking about how kids are always on their phone and they don't know how to have a conversation and they never make eye contact cause they're looking at their texts but if we're not talking to them about it, well then whose fault is that? Really? It's ours. It'd be a lot easier for me to do what a lot of schools do which is take all the phones and put them in the phone pocket. In fact my school bought me one of those. That's easy but it's not teaching my students anything.

And so this year I'm doing a lot around like norms and agreements and I'm watching a lot of lives on instagram and I'm asking questions and doing P. D. Around how can we co create agreements and rules and norms and what's the difference between the two where we're actually having students recognize the difference between like oh I want to do well in class and I can see my phone is distracting me. So I'm gonna practice putting my phone down and do the work and then see the difference or like learn about the Pomodoro technique where I focus for 20 minutes and then I get a five minute phone break because really that's the things our students need. They're gonna need that when they go home and have to do their homework, they're gonna need that out in the world adults that right so I'm trying that's my learning right now.

Um I do the classroom around like it's hard though, it's not working great and so um uh any resources you all have, I'm open to it, but I'm trying to learn how can we, I used to be like these are the rules and now how can I, how can we co create them or students have input on them? Um, particularly around phones, but also kind of just in general trying to figure out how to make this a more student owned space. Excellent. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing your own learning and there's so much we can do a whole other podcast, just those two things that you just share. But um, as a final question people, I'm sure are gonna be really interested in following up with you, connecting with you. Um, just following what you're doing online. And so where can listeners go online to follow what you're doing or connect with you? Yeah, so instagram and then my handle is really easy. It's just my name at Abbey Corman.

A B B E K O R M A Excellent. Abby. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thank you lindsey. If you're leaving this episode, wanting more, you're going to love my live coaching intensive curriculum bootcamp. I help one department or grade team create feminist anti racist curricula that challenges affirms and inspires all students. We leave current events into course content and amplify student voices, which skyrockets engagement and academic achievement. It energizes educators feeling burned out and it's just two days plus you can reuse the same process any time you create a new unit, which saves time and money. If you can't wait to bring this to your staff, I'm inviting you to sign up for a 20 minute call with me, grab a spot on my calendar at www dot lindsey Beth Lyons dot com slash contact. Until next time. Leaders continue to think big act brave and be your best self. This podcast is a proud member of the teach, Better podcast network, better today, better tomorrow and the podcast to get you there, explore more podcasts at teach better dot com slash podcasts and we'll see you at the next episode.