Everybody. I'm so excited for our returning guest today to the podcast on episode one, 13 of time for teacher shift. It is a, a Mills. She's a master's in education. She's the CEO of Continental Drift LLC. She is an author of an amazing book which we will talk about today, an education consultant and adjunct professor at Boston College's Lynch School of Education and Human Development and Mount Holy College. She has been an educator since 1999 with a background as a class teacher, instructional coach, teacher developer and school administrator, Africa is the author of Open Windows Open Minds developing anti racist pro human students, as well as a viral blog post. A letter to white teachers of my black Children. Her ted talk having conversations about race is just another hard thing we can learn to do will be released spring 2023. I'm actually hoping it will be out by the time this episode drops. So we will see we are recording this conversation on March 27th, 2020 three. This will be released in May. So fingers crossed that it will be out by then our freebie for the episode is amazing. Africa has created a fantastic set of resources on a pale which we will link to in today's show notes, Lindsay Beth lions dot com slash blog slash 113.

Let's get to the episode. I'm educational justice coach Lindsay Lyons. And here on the time for teacher podcast, we learn how to inspire educational innovation for racial and gender justice design curricula grounded in student voice and build capacity for shared leadership. I'm a former teacher leader turned instructional coach. I'm striving to live a life full of learning, running, baking, traveling, and parenting because we can be rockstar educators and be full human beings. If you're a principal assistant superintendent, curriculum director, instructional coach or teacher who enjoys nerd out about co creating curriculum with students. I made this show for you. Here we go, Africa. Welcome to the Time for Teacher Podcast. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad to be here. Thank you so much. Yeah. And I think you were on an earlier episode. So this is like one of the very few repeats guesses we ever, I was so fun for this and we get to talk all about your new book, which is mind blowingly amazing. So I'm very excited about the baby.

The baby. Is there anything you want people before we dive into? Like the big questions? Anything you want people to know beyond, you know, the typical bio we read at the front of the episode anything that people should keep in mind during today's conversation. Well, I'm doing today. No, I really just, I'm, I'm my desire, like my heart genuinely is I feel the need and um I feel compelled to, like, just continue building community. I already felt that way as I was writing the book and was writing the book during the, like the height of the pandemic. And then now in whatever stage this is in whatever stage of pandemic this is, it's, it's just been so hard in so many ways. And I feel like especially when it comes to work that I focus on with regard to anti-racism and pro human ways of being. Um but there's been so much resistance and there is currently so much resistance to that. So honestly, I am just really excited to build community with folks and to connect and to help like lift each other up and inspire one another. I don't know if you've ever seen this. Like, I mean, my daughter was telling me yesterday, so she was like, it's not gift, it's just from like, you know what I'm talking about though, right?

The thing, right? The image. But there's one of these two and I don't know how old the the that they seem like like young people, maybe high school students playing on the same basketball team and one is walking down the court with their head hanging kind of low and then their teammate comes up to them and just pushes their chin up and just pass them on the back. And I was like, that's what we need, right. Because right now it's so easy to feel daunted and exhausted and kind of lost. But I think that spending time together in conversation could help with that. It won't solve for everything, but I think it could help. That is beautiful and we will try to find that maybe put that in the blog post moment, make a note to myself. So I think I asked you this question previously when you're on the podcast, but you know, dreams evolve and things change. And I'm just wondering right now in this moment when we think of freedom dreaming, right? Dreams grounded in the critique of injustice as a patina love says, what is that dream you hold? And, and specifically because your book is around instruction and more broadly, you know, curriculum, like, what is the dream that you have in that space? Well, right now, honestly, it's when I think about it, I feel like I really would like for us to support one another to be more courageous, right?

And so I want to contextualize that a bit because I think what's happening right now and I understand it right, from, from a human nature perspective is that there are we have a lot of polarization going on, right? So we have like there is um there is like really uh strident resistance against, um, what people are calling, like, anti C RT, um, instruction and parents rights and, and lots of book bannings and stuff like that. And I think there's a, a conversation where it could be like, oh, well, um, if, if, if this is what's most important, right. If we really believe that this is the right way to teach students, then we should just do it anyway. Right. And I'm like, I think that's, we really got at least the nuance of that, right? Because I think that yes, we do believe that those of us who do believe in anti bias, anti racist, pro human ways of being and, and teaching and learning, um we do believe that it is the right way. And also if someone is in a, in a position where it's like you might lose your job, you might be fined a, a high amount of like, you know, the fine might be something you don't, you don't have the ability to pay, you could in some places be charged with a third degree felony, right?

For, for teaching, which feels bizarre like we're in 2023 that's happening. So for me, I feel like my dream is that we become strategic and say yes, we do believe that this is the right way to teach with and this is the right way to be right. And because there are different places where legislatively, things are shifting in a way that it becomes more precarious to teach in this way, then how are we going to support people to push through? Right. So, and this, actually, this idea honestly came from something that I posted on Twitter and I was just getting really frustrated with, you know, some of the things and different legislative measures and things like that. And then, um, someone posted like, well, what are we gonna do? Like, how are we gonna get the bail, um the bail funds ready? And I'm like, yo, that's right. Right. This is what folks did like when it came time for, you know, for nonviolent resistance and civil rights and things like that, we were really very strategic about like, yes, we do believe we must push forward and how are we gonna make sure that people can think? That's my dream right now is if we actually and didn't instead of like wringing our hands and only because I mean, there's some hand wringing and frustration, understandably so, but then what are we gonna do about it?

Right. We need to make sure that we're, we're in tangible ways supporting one another to keep the work going. And so that's what my dream is too, is like that we will become aware of what's needed to keep going in different places and to really um show our solidarity, right? Like, not just talk about the importance of solidarity and being abolitionists of against things that dehumanize, but how do we do that in ways that are very clear and, and um in ways that people need that tangible support. Yeah, I love that from, from a strategic, courageous like standpoint, brilliant and brilliant ideas very specifically, like as an example, the bail funds, like if we find a link to something like that, I will link to that in the show notes, we can um one of the things that I try to do is donate 1% of all of our proceeds to a specific organization or cost for each month or each year. So that could be this year's like we'll, we'll yeah, really try to like start thinking about that. But from a financial and strategic standpoint, brilliant because I think, I mean, that's the thing too because along with that same thread that came out was someone said, and it's like sometimes I think things get sparked by just something that somebody just says off the top of their head.

But it's thoughtful and it's like, I didn't really think about that. Someone was just like, what if all the teachers in one building decided that they were going to push through anyway, they're not gonna arrest everybody. And I was like, you know what? See and that's the thing too. I think like being in this generation right now, there's a lot that I feel like we are aware of from different movements that have happened. But I don't know how well acquainted we are with the actual, like, strategy, right? And so I'm just like, that's so true. I'm just like, like, if everybody in the school, like, now you have to work on that to get everybody courageous enough. Right. But we know that though, right? Like when those of us who have been um in a, in a space where we've been working in a school where there's a union and when sometimes it's like, right. so the contract we're having an issue. So there's some things that we're gonna need to do to make sure that this, you know, that we're able to push this forward and you gotta have the right, the, the skill, the will and the, you know, and the ability to be able to do those things. So how do we support one another to make, you know, to make substantive moves because the kids are doing it. I'm like, look at the babies, the babies are walking out, right. They're having teachings and, right, they're taking over school board meetings and I'm like, the kids are doing it but they shouldn't be alone doing it.

Right. And I know that there are definitely some educators who are participating as well. But I'm like, I think more of us need to do it though. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yes. That, and I, I think with that from a, from a, being a former social studies teacher too, in terms of curriculum, like we teach movements and we teach the strategies of the movements, but at such a surface level and we don't think about them from the standpoint of connecting to today, we're starting to just see people think about the connections today, more broad kind of ideas. But if you had a unit where the I think action project at the end of the unit was like, you're now taking the strategy you learned about and you're putting them into action in your community right now for a certain problem that you care about right now. Like that is a totally different level of like needing to understand what we're learning about in history to serve today. Like the possibilities are just really, really good. And I feel like I got really so like, I mean, I was already motivated but even more so so recently in um like it as part of um the Ted Ed cohort that I was part of Sharif Meki, who is the founder and executive director of the Center for Black Educated Development.

His talk was about like really looking at like the the strength of like the Black teaching approach, right? And how it's of benefit to everyone. And that's, he talked about that a bit too. He was talking about like really thinking about what happened during the Montgomery bus boycott and who like who trained Rosa Parks, right? And I think getting rid of that narrative of, oh, she was an old woman who was just I mean, that's ages first of all, like, she's, you know, if she's a certain age she's already old and tired. Right. There's that or tired. Um, but, but really he was talking about, like, who trained her and the other people who are part of that resistance movement. Right. And just really putting some shine on those folks. It wasn't like they just, just got up one day and decided this is what we're gonna do. People were moved to do it and then they had a plan, right? And support to fulfill that plan. Yeah. Yes. Oh my God. Absolutely. That's, oh, I, I want to go down to Rosa Park Drive. So I am curious in terms of, I know like the work that you do, there's so much around mindset pieces and you talk about some of that in the book.

And I'm, I'm just curious to know like, what are the big mindset shifts that have really moved the needle for educators and, and thus for their students and families in larger communities that, that you think everyone should be aware of or, or could be really powerful. Like if a leader is listening, like here's a mindset shift to try to encourage in, in your community. Yeah, I think, and I do end up like, I am someone who is very, very like, I'm really focused on like hope and really be like, how are we solution minded and things like that? And so I think one of the things that has been really that I've noticed and that I think we can do some more work around um um really investigating and exploring and kind of operational is there is. And I think it, it it kind of goes along with like racial identity development. There are for folks who are white identifying and who are identifying as anti racist, especially those folks who are the beginnings of their journey. There's a lot of um feeling of, oh we need to be better for black and brown people, right? And we need to do better. Like the systems need to be better.

And I'm like, yes, that is part of it. There's more though, right? And so I think part of one of the things that I'm really excited about like having more conversation about is like, it really is about all of us not dehumanizing any of us, right? And so for example, if I'm a white identifying person and I'm like, oh, I need to do better for a black and brown person, then there can be some saviors that comes from that there can be some other rising that's still part of that. It's like, oh, well, you this separate group you've been treated badly. And so how do we stop treating you badly? It's like, yeah, but what, what has the idea of, of whiteness as a social construct done to you as a person, right? And I'll tell you, I was like, this is something that I heard recently and I'm not gonna be able to trigger it because I don't remember specifically where I heard it from, but it's so good that I have to tell it here. So basically, it was like, you know, when that um racially motivated massacre took place in Buffalo at the top super supermarket and there was um a white identifying woman who I believe asked a, a black identifying woman like, how are you like in light of that shooting that took place like, how are you?

And she the the the black identifying woman was like, I am good. How are you, how do you, how are you processing the fact that someone in your name and representing you did this horrible thing? How are you feeling about that? And I think the woman gave to gave her pause. She was like, oh, I didn't really think about that, right? So I think when you like, when you ask the question, I'm like this piece too is thinking about yes. Do we want to be good for one another? Yes. And also we want ourselves to be whole and healed from this destructive thing, right? And so I think that's the piece to that really like starting to have more of those conversations has been really helpful. And I think in a way it's like it kind of causes a bit of cognitive dissonance honestly for some people because I'll be like, listen, if you're doing, say you're doing a multicultural celebration and you're just like, yeah, the black kids are gonna celebrate, you know, we're there from and the brown kids will too and the white kids are gonna do what, like we're saying, multicultural. But where is your place?

And you absolutely have a place in the human family. Absolutely. And yes, have that was their colonization and then, and oppression and subjugation and enslavement. Like, yes, all of those things happened and they're horrible and we, we're still living with the consequences of those things today and they're still in place in different shape, shifted ways and, but that doesn't have to be how you affiliate, right? That doesn't have to be who you see yourself having something in common with. And so just thinking about that conversation is like, who are the people that you look up to? Who are the people who look like you who have done things that you believe in? Right? And so how do we talk more and identify more of, of those like role models and folks who've been doing this work, who we can look to as guides, right? Who we can look to as encouragement and motivation, right? Yeah. That's something I've been thinking about a lot lately. Yeah. And I think you are one of the biggest voices in, in my mind and experience of like talking to white Children about white anti racist and abolitionists.

And, and I think that work is just, just fascinating and your responses that you've been getting. I know we were talking about before we started hitting record, you know, like uh to that work has been really fascinating as well. Do you mind speaking to that? And I'm like I said, I get it. I understand like, say if someone is white identifying and has come to the place of like, oh yeah, I believe that racial and racism is not good. The so systemic oppression is not good. Mass incarceration is not good housing inequality and access to resources and you know, and and the the ability to live the best, fullest life that you want to live, like have not everyone not having access to. That is not something that I want to see. Continue, right? So just thinking about that, right? So I'm like, OK, so that's, that's a part of the journey. And also alongside that comes some messaging around like, you know, if you're a white identifying person, you should stop speaking so much. You should be more of a listener, you should censor the voices of black and brown people and, and not, you know, censor yourself or even like in some of the presentations I've done or even in the book, you'll see the, the infographics about the representation of white identifying folks in children's books and you know how we want like it seems like that is um decreasing and that there, it looks like at first glance that it's because of the decrease in white characters that there has that we assume that there will be an increase in black and brown characters.

That's not quite the, the issue, right? It's actually a more of an increase in animals and inanimate objects and stuff like that. And so sometimes white identifying folks see that. It's like, yeah, I need to lean back and decent myself And I think that's not quite the thing that is effective to happen. It's like what we're trying to decent is the racial, the destructive racial concepts or the construct of whiteness. Whiteness was something that was created to oppress and to subjugate. So prior to that, prior to when that became a thing, right? Um In the like early 16 hundreds, people were identified by where they came from, right? Where they, where their ethnic, what nation they came from, what, what nation they were connected with. And so knowing that, you know, it's, it's the construct of race. I don't think a lot of us know that about when it was created, how it was created where it came from. So if I'm asking someone like, how do you identify and you tell me why I'm like, that's what you were, have been racially categorized as who are you though, right?

Like who, like what's your story? Who are you connected to, who are your people? And so when I asked that, what basically what I do is I push back and I'm like, I understand that you've been told to decent, but that does not mean silence, it does not mean not participating it when we're talking about de centering something we're trying to decent. The thing that takes away from our humanity, right? But if you're gonna affiliate with something different than that, then that's beautiful. Right? And so how are you going to engage? And we want to censor that. So for example, if I'm talking about white students in a classroom, I wanna make sure that like not only are all the books represented of lots of different people, people, especially now that there's such resistance that which is maddening in so many ways but also too to be like, well, how can you see yourself? Like, what is your identity? Who are you, what do you believe in? Right? Like what do you believe about people and life and you know, all the things like, how do we, how do we start to teach Children to have that identity?

And that's what I think is really gonna move the needle because I'm like, and this is like I said this before in different spaces, I don't say this to be alarmist but realistic that the natural thing that will happen with a human being if you don't see yourself, right? If you don't see yourself, you're gonna constantly look for that. And there are people who have um who, in some other cases are called bad actors. Folks who have ill motives who are waiting to recruit those Children who are looking to see themselves and what they're offering them is something very toxic, something awful and they're gonna keep being successful, right? We're gonna keep having like people being able to recruit folks to participate in things like a January 6th or something like that. Because what is the alternative? Right. What are we offering as a way to be? We can't just be able to decent yourself, not offer like what to do instead, right? So I really feel like if I could like a message that I could give to folks is like de centering has to be, there's some nuance to it, right? It doesn't mean to be silent, it doesn't mean to not be represented at all.

It means what's beautiful should be represented. Yeah. And yet so much of if, if folks listening are not following Africa on all of the places on social, we're gonna share those handles at the end because you should be. And I think one of the things that I have seen in just what you have posted too is also that white adults and and educators, people who are in spaces that have the opportunity to share these like abolition, white abolition role models with white Children don't know who the White role models are because they didn't like learn about it. So it is so like, it's such an interesting cycle and, and, and so, so if we have people listening right now, do you mind talking about? I know you talk about several in the book, you talk about several on social media, like who are the folks that people can just start kind of researching? Absolutely. The first people that I'll mention would be Jenna Chandler Ward and Elizabeth Devi, the co-founders of teaching while White and the coauthors of learning and teaching while White, they are the first folks who I saw note that like it was like, we don't have enough of these examples and then create a resource.

Like here, here, here is the collection. It's not an exhaustive collection, but it is a really wonderful collection of like of here are some folks that you can begin to learn about and think about and see what they did, what you know, what shifted things for them. Why did they choose to be who they were? And why did they choose to fight against, you know, against subjugation? And why did they, why did they choose to be abolitionist in their time? And this is not just folks historically, this is more like current folks now too, right? And then, so there if you, if you go to and we can definitely put a link into, but just to make reference to it, there is an actually like a PDF that um Elizabeth and Jenna created that has, it's like I think maybe like a four or five page document. And then it has some questions that like reflection questions for folks to be able to think about. And then someone who is newer for me is um Lynn Barnett. He has done. I mean, when I look at it, I'm like, whoa, I'm so happy. I don't even know how I found it because, you know, I'm always looking for stuff. Um but I found his resources and he has been compiling a list of white anti racist ancestors and on the website that he's created when you click on it, he has these biographies of all of these different folks who are white folks who engage in this work.

And so I'm like, so I definitely would, those are the, the two resources that come top of mind. And one of the things I wanna do, like I'll tell a story of one of my, one of my relatives who like his, what he said, both broke my heart but also motivated me. So my nephew is a black, young black man. He is married to a white woman who um whose son is also white, who was the son that she had before they became a relationship with one another. And um one, you know, after my book launch, I had given the books away to everybody because I'm like, I'm such a bibliophile and I'm like, they were like, this is not really a raffle because everybody's getting something I'm like, yeah, that's, that's an Africa raffle. Everybody wins, right. It's like Oprah, like, you get a book and you get a book, right? And so when they went home and started reading some of the books, like her son was, um, he was really excited to learn about white folks who were abol, who were abolitionists because he hadn't heard that before. And so I'm like, ok, so that broke my heart because she was asking like, are there other resources for him? Because he's eight? And I thought about it. I'm like, oh, not that I can think of this for him.

Right? There's some books that are like, you know, not my idea. That's a newer book where, you know, they're talking about a white child who was saying like, no, I don't, I don't believe in this, but I'm kind of in the middle of this thing. Um And then there's some books to like Nettie's trip South. It's an older book, but it's so good about a little white girl who traveled to the South with her family and saw enslaved Africans in her reaction to it as a child. I feel like everybody needs to read that book because I'm like, I think it, I mean, it's heartbreaking, right? It ends in such an ominous way. She's just like, since that trip, I've had a hard, I, I, I've have a, I have a hard time sleeping and I'm like, oh baby girl, right. This like breaks my heart anyway, like I feel like more of those types of stories need to be created so that students can see and Children can see what the possibilities are. I think we have lots of resources that are coming out where we talk about being anti racist and they typically have been, I think lately there's usually like a young adult version that comes out and then like a children's version and then maybe some a book, a board book for the Babies and things like that. And I think it's definitely great because it's highlighting how to be a part of a group of people who believe in this.

And also I think we need to do both, right? I think we need to have that have depict what it looks like for um for white identifying Children. Like yeah, to be able to say like here's who I am and here's what I believe. And here are some people who look like me who've been doing this. It's not, it's not new. I think a lot of times people think it's new but it's not. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yes, this is amazing. I will try to link to as many of these resources as I can in the show notes. So thank you for all of these resources and and your book is just a phenomenal resource. I know you also have like a companion like online portion with more resources. It is just like every educator should read this book. Is there like a kind of a favorite piece in here? I mean, there are pieces I can talk about if you don't have any that comes in mind. But I'm just curious to know like, yeah, like what? So he says that I'm, I'm thinking really? But one phase you said, like kind of the at risk idea, like, problem at risk and who is at risk? And aren't we all at risk if we're not kind of learning about like all identities and all people and how to connect it as a collective to take action against the justice?

Like just all of the pieces. Um you talked a lot about um like what the perspectives of uh white educators have fun and like the the idea of like writing letters to self and just these concrete activities that people can do as adults engaging with this and also very student facing instructional strategies. I mean, there is so much in here, is there, is there a particular piece that resonates with you? I think, I mean, structurally, I love the breathe and reflect um sections because I think I'm a big reflector, right? I think that, you know, it's really important to take in ideas and especially because some of it, a lot of it is stuff that depending on the reader's experience may not have heard before, may be new, right? And there's a process that we need to go through of unlearning some things and even mourning, right? I've been thinking about that too. Is that man? I this is like, this is kind of out there. But what I was thinking about this morning while I was just like, man, what if we like wrote an obituary for our formal way of thinking, right? Not in really like to honor it to be like, yeah, we miss you but to be like, yeah, you're, we're moving beyond this, right?

We're moving to something else. We're transforming into a different way of being. And so I think they're really taking that time to reflect and be honest and say like this is how I grew up. This is what my folks taught me. It feels hard to acknowledge that my parents taught me something that was harmful. It feels hard to really confront that my, the the place that I went to for to practice my faith actually taught me something that was not quite loving, right? Those are hard things. And now we, I think ideally we just like it shouldn't be hard. It's like, but it is right because even if we believe that something is true and good, we have to detach from that other thing that was attached to us and that separation process is not easy, right? I have a friend Luria. Um Barry is, is a good friend and she does this work as well and just this past weekend I had the opportunity to hear from her um at a conference that we, we went to and she was talking about like that going from caterpillar to crystal to butterfly the in the crystal list. I think we don't often talk about that either.

We're just like, yeah, the caterpillars is and it goes into this little space and then it comes out as the butterflies like inside the crystal is kind of rough in there. Like it's not, it's not easy but it's, it's good, right? It's ultimately good even though it's not easy. And so I think that's the piece too, is that being able to breathe and reflect on those things. One, I think they kind of undergirding the idea of trying to create other literature for Children, especially white Children to see what other possibilities are and to see themselves reflected in a not a fun house mirror way, which is I think like how Jenna and Elizabeth uh talk about the mirrors for white kids. It's like not distorted but like who you really can be and who you really are, right? I love the letters that educators wrote to themselves when they were younger because I feel like so many of us need to go through that racial healing and writing a letter back to yourself could even be a really great place like as an educator. How cool would that be if you're like, oh, let me think about this. Maybe I could like maybe create a story for my students based on even my own story and help them to have their own stories that continues from here.

So I think those pieces too like really being able to see examples of what racial healing looks like. Um But this, I mean, it was my book baby. So I'm just like, I love everything about that baby. I'm like, I like the color of its eyes. I like its little ear. I like its hair, right? Oh my gosh. There is, there is so much in here. It's hard to just use. But I think there's, there's so many, I, I mean, there's from information and things that I just, I learned from differing examples of things and activities and the breath and reflect, like you said, two instructional strategies that like, I think you could just use those in front of students. I'm wondering for the leader who's listening thinking about like maybe, I don't know, doing a book study um putting some things into practice, encouraging teachers to adopt some things. Is there somewhere that you would encourage people to start with like an approach to this book or, or you know, talking a little bit. I know you do some of that work with educators in schools. I think this piece is important even though i it's not always what we do, but I think it's what we need to be doing.

So when looking at like, you know, the model that Paula Ferri put forward about critical consciousness development and how that beginning is with that exploration of self, I get the temptation to jump into action, right? Because it's like, oh we recognize things are bad, especially when Children are involved, we don't want to continue to cause harm. So we want to do something immediately. However, if we try to act without knowing the foundation of our own foundation and actually being able to have an understanding of how things got to be the way they are, then it's gonna be really hard to sustain that work because you don't necessarily have a true understanding of where came from in the first place. And so when you start to get that pushback, which we will, right, then it's hard because like, I, I, I don't know, I don't really have that depth, right? And so I think like, you know, um um that, that Nottingham framework of the learning pit, I think about that a lot too. And a lot of times I talk about it in workshops where it's that, you know, like we start with the challenge and then we take the challenge and go into the pit and it feels hard and we're like, I don't know if I should have done this and man, I'm at the heart of it and it feels really hard. But then we work our way up to the other side, like we have to do that.

And one of the other images I try to do to help people not to do is like when you're on the one side, seeing a challenge, you can't throw a plank over the pit and walk to the other side because you're gonna be missing the shrink that you would have given in the pit. So going back to the butterfly example, um I heard the story a long time ago but basically where it's like, you know, I don't know if this actually happened or if this was like the story that was told. But where someone like, you know, like back to the caterpillar went into the crystal and it's like, oh yeah, they have to struggle to get out. If you cut that crystal open to let the caterpillar out so that it doesn't have to struggle, then it actually will die because the the thing that makes the the butterflies or the developing butterflies wings able to fly as a strength it gains through cracking through the crystal list. So we have to do that hard work so that we have the strength to persist. And so I would say like for leaders, it is hard because of course, we're really looking at like we want things that are measurable. We want to be able to say like we implemented this, we measured it, kids got better at this and that right?

And so I'm like, yeah, I get that at the same time, I think it's really important to think about from like, when you're looking at a broader view that we, if we really know Children and we know how Children develop and how we all develop as learners that in order to really teach them something meaningful, we have to get down to this foundational level. It doesn't mean that because I think some people get freaked out and they're just like, I don't want my kid just talking about race all day long. I want them to learn math and it's like, yeah, ok, good. Nobody's saying that we're just gonna talk about race all day, but we are going to integrate into who we are as a human family. All the important things we need to know to do, you know, to be good for one another and to take care of each other. And so I would say just really to, to invest that time in letting not letting because that, that's not quite the word. I mean, in um helping your staff to be equipped to do that self work because, and that, and it's not to say that because I think sometimes people just like, oh, if you're just thinking about yourself racially all year, what does that have to do yourself in the classroom? It absolutely will impact the classroom and it also will build in now that we understand how these systems developed.

Now we know as educators how to interrupt that but not just to interrupt, but how are we talking? We started talking about freedom dreaming, how are we building that thing that we always espoused that we build? Like if we look at anybody's mission and vision statement for a school, we always say these beautiful things, right? And they are, they're very beautiful. I think in a lot of ways it's still very aspirational. And so I think they really like allowing uh I keep going back to that, allowing but like just really providing opportunities for um for our staff to really delve into like, OK, let me see, like, what are my ideas and where are these things? Where, where, how was I shaped and formed with these ideas? And then, then we'll be prepared to be able to implement these lessons, which is the latter part of the book. So that's how it's structured. The first part of the book is racial healing and identity development and consciousness development. And then the latter part of the book is like, this is what this looks like in the classroom in different ways. So I would say to try to uh make to allot time for both so that it takes root and it's not surface because we know what happens to things that are surfaced that actually makes me think too of kind of like um when I was at the International Network for public schools in New York City, they had um what they call one learning model for all, which was where what we expect of students is like the same way we interact as adults in our professional learning.

And so it makes me think of that because if teachers and staff members are doing this racial healing identity work and they're then they're moving to implementation. Like I almost think of that in the same way for students. Like what racial healing and identity work can we give them front end of the year and build through out? They have the capacity then to also end of a unit, end of the semester, end of the year, whatever it is, like do the implementation, do that, like civic action project or something. I I think about, you know, Massachusetts S C Civic Action Project. It's a requirement that the work or the impact is sustained after the project ends, which is like, that's what we want that sustainability. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, and I will say this too, like, I think a lot of times when we think about or at least in the conversations that I have been a part of when it comes to talking about like leaders, a lot of times it's like, oh, well, what do we need to encourage leaders to do for their staff? It's like not just for the staff but for them too, right? So I'm like, like without getting into details some of the stories that I'm hearing from folks who are, who are teachers in schools trying to do this work are being led by administrators who have been fed a lot of misconceptions about race and are perpetuating that as administrators which is making the work harder for the teachers.

So for so like thinking about like, say, um I know someone who is a science teacher and um you know, was really trying to like talk about like science from, from a, like a, a scientific perspective. But because the, because what they were teaching, it happened to have some impact on race because the principal hadn't had that learning had actually pushed back on what was being taught. And I was like, well, this is killing me because a lot of times I get the question about like, what does this look like in the science class? And I'm like, and she was doing the work, doing the work, but because the principal hadn't had that experience, then they weren't able to make that connection, right. So I think that it's not just, oh, do this for your staff. It's like, do this for all of you. Yeah. Yeah. I just think about the importance of having a coach as a leader. We often give instructional coaches to teachers, but like, how helpful would it be as a leader? Yes. And to be able to have a space to be honest and be like, I'm not really sure what to do, right? Like this happened, someone said this thing, I thought this thing and it turns out that I was really wrong about that and I'm not, I got, I got called out right for this thing that I said and so just really being able to have a space to be like, yep, it's messy.

Right. This work is, it's, it's messy, especially in the beginning. Like any new thing is. But if you stick with it just like you stick with anything you learn. I talk about this in other spaces too. If you are someone who has learned a new language or you've learned how to play an instrument or you've learned how to ride a bike or drive a car, anything like big that you've learned how to do. It's messy in the beginning because you don't really know what you're doing frozen. So you swallow a lot. You sound pretty bad. Like, you know, I, I talked about this, this is kind of what made people laugh in the South by Southwest E D US, um, session. And I said, if you ever have been around a child who is learning how to play a quarter, you know, how painful it can be to support someone who is learning a new thing, but it doesn't stay like that. Right. It's, it's a little rough in the beginning but the more they practice, the better they get and it's really the same foundational principle for us. Yeah. Yeah. And just, I like thinking of that cultural container that all of this work happens in, right, to be able to prioritize that as the teacher level and at the staff level to create those spaces where mistakes are OK?

And we move forward from them and we see them as like, you know, we have gratitude for people who do correct us and tell us that you could do something different. Um Yeah. Is there, is there something, I mean, we've kind of gone all over the place. Is there something that you wanted to talk about that you didn't get a chance to or something that you wanted to highlight or, or share advice for, for leaders? I, I mean, like I, I could talk to you all day seriously, but I think, I think I've said the things that I wanted to say today. Um Yeah, I think it's just been, it's just really important that we keep the conversation going and then we get to a place where it's like where we can connect with one another and it's, and it's not like we, we gotta get away from this polarized way of being and I do wanna be clear. So there is, I think sometimes when I, when I say what I say and when I teach what I teach, some folks are like, oh, you're given a pass to people who are just like committed xenophobe. I'm like, no, I actually like, I do like not because I believe in other, I don't believe in others people, however, some people believe in other themselves and if someone has other otherwise themselves and has identified as somebody who is going to do harm to other people because they are different, who is going to, to hurt people or to docks people or to do like, you know, to, to threaten people.

I'm not talking about them because they have made a different choice. That is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about which and I believe that that is the minority of people. I don't believe that's the majority of us. I will say though that I do believe the majority of us have the capacity and the curiosity, even if it's not quite the skill yet to be better. And also we need to have that courage though, to really, because I'm like, I think the people who are really determined to be hateful, they're very strategic, very, I mean, they have talking points and guides and here's what you do and here's how you do this and that. And I'm not saying that we want to be that way, but there's something to be said about being organized and about really, you know, supporting one another and working together and not being because when we are isolated and we're doing this work in pockets, it's easier to, to kind of stop it, right? But when we're more unified and in solidarity with one another, we can get a lot more done and it's, the stakes are so high. Like we're talking about Children. Right. And we're talking about our, our country. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And, and I think this sometimes can feel like a very big, like thing to take on to, to get into, to fears of missteps.

Right. All the things we've named so far. What is like a starting point for someone who is kind of like, ready to do the thing and like ready to engage in the work for themselves, for their staff and is listening to this on a two and it's like I want to do something like tomorrow like a Wednesday staff meeting or I, I wanna like go do this thing and, and just get me started in a way that's really gonna help build that foundation that we need to be able to make it sustaining and all the things that we talked about. What would you say that would be? Yeah. So there is a framework, the Center for anti-racism education framework or care framework, which is another thing you should link into the resources. Oh my gosh, it's one of the most beautiful tools I have seen. It has these, you know, the different principles that, you know, will support a school community to become an anti racist, you know, educational learning space. And it begins with humanity. And I love that because it gives us a space to be able to say like we need to get away from this dehumanizing that we've done for of one another and to be able to get to like, what is it that we share?

And because we fall in love with that, right? Then it's like, well, then we're gonna be willing to do all we can to hold on to that and then it builds, it's not like we're starting at like, where's the action that we can take? It's like, no, what is it? Who are we like? Who are we? And so I would honestly encourage a lot of folks to like take a look at that framework because it comes along with a, a lot of tools and self assessment guides and examples and it, and it builds, right? So it's like, you know, you start with humanity and you move on to talking about like historical truths and truths and then you talk about what it means to develop a critical consciousness and then you talk about race and racism and then it goes on to just action. And so I would just really encourage folks to be like, yes, it is like, OK, we gotta do something. It's like, yes, but the thing to do is to start in a place that's going to last, right? So I would highly encourage like using a framework because I think sometimes like without a framework, it can feel like I don't know, like am I starting to read this book? And people telling us don't just read a book and don't just listen to podcasts and I don't know what to do after that.

And my community is, is, you know, there's only white people here and if we have some resistance going on, like there are some, you know, there are some things that are on people's minds about this work. I think you using the tools and it's, it's free. Right. I think a lot of times people feel like, oh if we're gonna, you know, do this work, like we don't have the resources we already allowed, allocated this money from the budget. It's like, well, don't even worry about that because you can just download this right? And just be intentional about creating time and sustaining space for staff to work together. Have the discussions involve families, things like that. It has the supports there. And so I think, but honestly, it really is about having that will, right? The will to, to say we're going to do this and not to and, and to prepare ahead of time because like you're going to make the decision and then you're going to second guess it because you're going to face resistance. And humanly speaking, we don't like that, right? So have a plan in place already to be like when not, if, but when we face resistance, whether it's internally or externally, how are we going to keep this work going? Determine that ahead of time? Yeah, brilliant and I will try to link to that as well.

I'm just thinking from what you shared to it almost again, sounds like the parallels from doing this as a staff and then helping teachers see the connection to how you would do that in a unit or with students, right? It's just like one learning model for all. Again, like this is, this is so great to be able to practice as a staff and thus bring the same kinds of activities and ideas and frameworks into classroom space for students as well and and like you said, and with families as well. Yeah, that's the thing too is I think like we talked about a little bit before. It's not pausing the learning to do this. It is learning this as part of the learning, right? As you're implementing your con content, you're thinking about things to assign specific lens in the lens of a mathematician in the lens of, you know, of, of literature. You're looking at it through the lens of historian and how is this impacting our current times? Right. So it's all integrated. It's hard though because like one of the things I think about too, just being honest is that most of us didn't learn how to teach in this way in our prep programs. And so it is in the midst of being completely exhausted by the pandemic and demoralized as an educator because there's so much that has been coming at educators and so little regard for what it means to be a teacher and the value of being a teacher and like going through all those emotions, it's hard to be like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna take on another thing.

Right. I wanna just name that because I think that's real. Right. And also if we're going to continue because sometimes some people need to not continue and I totally respect that too. Right. If someone's going to continue is being able to find the spaces that are gonna allow you to continue in a whole way in a way where you can honor yourself and be cared for. Right? And finding those spaces where we can do this work together. Hey, everyone. It's Lindsay. Just hopping in here to say today's episode. Freebie is from Africa. It is a palette with, I cannot tell you how many resources. Absolutely amazing. Go check it out. Lindsey Beth lions dot com slash blog slash 113. Now, back to our conversation. Beautiful. Thank you so much for that. And, and I have two final quick wrap of questions. One is just for fun. What is something you have been learning about lately? It could be anything? Oh, ok. Oh, learning. Oh my gosh. I think this is the thing that has been on my mind a lot more recently. I am someone that although I am an introvert. Um and I do get a lot of energy through time. Apart from other folks, I don't think I truly understood until lately, the value of like, silence and solitude.

So, like being by myself, binge, watching a show is not the same as enjoying silence and solitude and really, you know, reflecting and just really being able to be in a space of just being settled and at peace as a person, I think probably, I don't know, like, if we were in a different time, I don't know if I would have felt as compelled, but because there is so much noise and so much rancor and stress, I'm just like, I, I won't, I won't live like that. Right? I won't live that I need to be able to maintain peace and joy. And so I think like really being able to lean into some times of just really getting quiet and not just being surrounded by distractions, but just being able to think and to be right, that's been something that I've been learning. So I'm like, I am not like I am really at the beginnings of this. Right? It feels uncomfortable for me. So I'm like, I'm definitely at that at that place where I'm just like, all right, I'm gonna be leaning into silence and then immediately I'm just like, yeah, I forgot to put that on my to do list. And so that's, that's on my head. So I'm like, oh gosh, but I know that the people I'm learning from, they just like, don't be hard on yourself.

Just kind of act like you're sitting on a calm body of water and a speed boat came by and you're just gonna let it speed and just keep on going. So I'm like, yeah, lots of speed boats, but they're, they're listening, they're listening. So just really trying to spend some more time and like learning to be like meditative and at peace. Yeah, I need to learn the same thing. So thank you for that. Yeah. And I think we previewed this earlier but where can people listen to just the wisdom that you have connect with? You? See all the things that you're doing? Yes. And so I really try to do a good job of keeping my website up to date. So it's my, my domain is Africa fans dot com. And so there are lots of resources there. But if you're on Twitter, I'm at a Fanny Mills. If you um search me on Facebook and Instagram, Open Windows, Open Minds has its own, that has its own um Facebook and Instagram pages. I also can be found on linkedin and I, I'm like, I haven't graduated really beyond that. You know, I like my, I have a nephew who was just like auntie, you gotta get on tiktok. I'm like, I don't know, I'm not there yet, but those are the spaces so far and I do have um I do try to keep up with folks through a newsletter and things like that too.

So definitely, really wanted to um talk about that because I, I do believe in the importance of developing and sustaining community. And so those are some of the things I think, yeah, some ways that people can get in touch with me. Beautiful and I know you do work with schools and districts. So can people reach out to you about that if they bring me in? You want me to connect with folks? I've been doing some really enjoyable work um both within schools. And like, even recently I worked with a group of staff from a community health center and that was awesome. So I'm like, so will, especially because we do this work as educators. And then also there's that racial healing part that I think is just really good for everybody. And so yeah, so if you, you want to work with me, I'd be happy to be in touch. Amazing. And we're gonna link in the blog post. We're gonna have the free resource from you as a pad full of like, I cannot believe how many resources are in there. So it's fun to make, I'm so excited for people to look at that. So check that out everybody that'll be at Lizabeth lions dot com slash whatever the episode number is, which I will edit in later Africa.

Thank you so much for being on this show. I have absolutely enjoyed this conversation. Absolutely. Thank you for having me and I have felt quite the same, quite the same. Hey, everyone. It's Lindsay just saying what the actual link is. It is Lindsay Bels dot com slash blog slash 113. To get that pilot resource from Africa. If you're leaving this episode wanting more, you're going to love my life, coaching intensive curriculum, boot camp. I help one department or grade team create feminist anti racist curricula that challenges affirms and inspires all students. We weave current events into course content and amplify student voices which skyrockets engagement and academic achievement. It energizes educators feeling burns out and it's just two days. Plus you can reuse the same process any time you create a new unit which saves time and money. If you can't wait to bring this to your staff, I'm inviting you to sign up for a 20 minute call with me. Grab a spot on my calendar at W W w dot Lindsay beth lions dot com slash contact. Until next time leaders continue to think. Big act brave and be your best self.

This podcast is a proud member of the Teach Better Podcast network. Better today, better tomorrow and the podcast to get you there, explore more podcasts at teach better dot com slash podcasts and we'll see you at the next episode.