Yeah. Welcome listeners to Trail Angels. It's Mark and Annette here with you today with Dorsey ross. We were excited today to be talking to Dorsey. We had a chance a couple of weeks ago to be talking with Dorsey on his podcast program but we have had such an incredible experience during the last year. So meeting new friends and sharing ideas and uh and what's your experience been the last year? So I've absolutely loved this, This was something I was scared to death to do. Start doing podcasts when we felt impressed that this was something that we needed to add to carry the load. And um but what has happened, Dorsey and Mark is that this has become my favorite thing and I love love meeting people. I love getting to know these incredible people that have been all over the world. And Dorsey, you're right there at the top of those that we have met. So thank you for joining us, Dorsey. Well thank you for having me appreciate it.
As I mentioned, we're really excited today as we had a chance a couple of weeks ago to visit with Dorsey and to learn a little about his life as he learned about ours. And let me just read a little bit about Dorsey before we begin here, I think he's got an incredible story and I believe it's going to be something that that each of you are going to be mesmerized by the incredible resiliency of Dorsey and what he's overcome in his life and I use that word overcome because his book overcome er That was published back in 2016 is an incredible read. It's a it's a great story about someone that was able to to go beyond the challenges of life and become something that he only dreamt of being. So let me read a little bit about Dorsey. Before we begin, He was considered a surprise birth with his parents, a couple in their 40s who had two grown Children and were seen as past child bearing age when he was born.
The doctors believed he wouldn't survive do is due to his life threatening disabilities. Yet now approaching the h his parents were when they had him author, Betsy Ross has lived a life dedicated to serving the Lord and encouraging others to not let their disabilities define the impact they can make his biography overcome her details, the challenges Dorsey faced as well as those of his family when he was diagnosed with a print syndrome, a genetic disorder that caused abnormal shaping of the school and face, as well as other birth defects. Pressured by doctors to place the Dorsey into an institution with a belief he would be brain dead. Soon his parents decided to take Taurasi home and do what they could to help his life thrive. Dorsey. That's that's an incredible story and I and I know that there's more to it as well and I know that your parents played a very important part in your life. You've you've allowed God to to come into your life as well.
And and the challenges that you have, you, you've talked about the purpose of God's eternal plan. And even though he dealt with, even though you do dealt with bullying at school and, and the work, uh, and have had more surgeries than anyone probably I've ever known has ever had to experience you've been able to overcome and you've been able to share your extraordinary story with so many others around the country. And in fact, you, this this whole story has led into, into a ministry. Uh, and I, and I look at that ministry that you've put together and I read about some of the people that have, have talked about your book and some of the challenges and uh, you know, I I guess what I would say is I'm just so incredibly impressed That you've been able to come to this point in your life knowing that there have been so many incredible difficulties. 68 operations I I thought that I was dealing with tough things with a few knee operations.
But 68 operations, that is remarkable. The fact that you were able to survive and to, as you mentioned to thrive, so welcome with us, Dorsey, We're so glad to have you with us today. I'm cooling, thank you for having me again. This is, this is a, you know, as we read your story and as an, and I have talked about you and your story, it would have been so easy to give up but you did tell us about your life and what it was like growing up. Yeah. Life obviously, you know, life growing up with difficult, you know, for me, you know, especially in the beginning, you know, especially when my parents not knowing, you know what was gonna happen, you know, they pay faith, you know, walked out of the hospital, you know, believing in God and you know, believing that God was going to, you know, hopefully take care of and hopefully bring me you.
Yeah, I reckon they were told by a nurse in the hospital that hey take him to Columbia plus beginning hospital in new york Kenny where the doctor there could possibly help me and could probably, you know openly goal and open the opening the hawk pot too. A lot of playing to grow and you know they by faith walked in then the doctor second well you know if he had the copper recon and if he had the opening in the skull hill Gove, I've he'll have a lot of difficulty and a lot of optical that he'll have to overcome but hill, he'll survive and I had my first of many operating a sick weak to open is going to while my bling to grow and to funky monk Well it could be and you know from belt hic week to about five year old I had about you know five, maybe the 10 upper we can come way around there two no do the operating on my fake and even you know the thought the pocket of cooperating my my finger there as well.
I think of your parents and your mother especially and what love she had for her son and that it didn't matter what the doctor said. She she felt that love inside her and she let it blossom and grow and she was going to continue to care for you as long as she could really as long as possible. And and I guess for me it's all about love and can you imagine what your life would have been like without that love? Right. Yeah. I probably wouldn't be right now. I probably wouldn't even be on living on the earth talking to you guys today. Yes. This really is a story of love and and it's it's a story that we're, we're wanting to explore a little bit more deeply here. Now before we go any further Dorsey, can you give us a little bit of an idea of what a prince syndrome is?
Yeah, you can do when you're born. People can do is a different element. Way can angle Burti factor to faith and the hand went when I was born, my forehead we put that with my, I can know who pushed back in my head and they think I'm too refused together me. I know in a real movement of them and you know, as I had the, you know, they had no body and no room for my blender grow And that is why the doctor can actually told my parents, you know, look, he's not going to have, I've hill event could become then get in the best option for you guys would be too kind of papers and to put him into a institution and then you know, there you know, variety of the but but the fact that well, you know, and you know, I have also have, you know, stomach problem we kind of know about, you know, I only knew about kind of like from 2008 or whatever and I also have refused resembling a thick nerve in my neck, which probably is part of the disability as well.
But that whole, you know, other, you know, abnormality that come with it as well thankfully for me, I don't have all of them. But you know, it very obviously with, with any type of difficulty that, you know, people have, I keep thinking about, they were able to label give this a diagnosis of what, um, what disability this was. But it wasn't, It's not something that can just be taken care of in one surgery, you labeled, you know, multiple things, whether it was confusing the fingers and so that they were individual unable to move or your toes. This has been a process of journey along the way that I'm assuming, you know, that we'll start with the brain we've got to open that up, that soft spot. So it, the skull can grow was the severity down the road.
And then one thing as you mentioned, you didn't know about certain things, you know, tell till recently even, and as technology happens as, as more of the symptoms and things progress than their, their learning and finding more about you and about this deformity, this diagnosis, this disability and, and really, I'm sure that they look at you and you're probably in text books. Now this is what can happen. It's not hopeless cause that's the only, you know, the only, uh, comfort or advice the doctor is going to give is what they gave to your mother. Now they can say this is what can be done right? And you can live a fulfilling life, but it's a life that like your book, the title over, you know, the overcome, er, you have always had to overcome.
Yeah, like, you know, even the doctors told my parents I'd be blamed that I would never think that the doctors told my parents, I would have to wear blinking on my leg to go to the fused talking because it, you know, and I walk normally and no, normally as I can and you know, people want our younger, okay, Hey, don't you walking faster than any of us and he's walking, you're walking at normal and the normal speak, they call me, hey, slow down. I think the doctor would tell me or told my parents at one point, you know, you had to wear please because of the the toes and they, you know, I didn't have my toes up where they go at all. Even at my age, I still don't have my told cooperated and that somebody, one of the doctors, I don't know who it was, Even told my parents, well look, you know, he's not going to live, you know, a full life.
He's going to live until he's 18 And now I'm, I'm 44 Dorothy. Let's talk about what was like growing up, I know that in your book you talk about challenges that you have not only physical challenges but challenges with, with the kids at school that would fund that would, that would say things that were unkind. How, how early in life did you realize that maybe you were a little bit different than the other kids? Well, you know, that's interesting. You know, it's not interesting question because interesting due to the fact that, you know, my parents never treated me anyone those different, they treated me as not their child. They treated me as a normal child. They, I love meeting do you think on my own until I myself could not, could figure out whether or not, you know, I was able to do that thing and even, you know, I don't know how accurate is.
I'm assuming it is accurate. But I remember my mom telling me that because of the school I went to, I went to school for people with disability and you know, maybe I'm not quoting at work for work or what I could do what he could. But I remember her telling me that one day, you know, I came back from the school, you come tonight. I said to him, why am I going to school for people with disability? I love that they treated you like they treated their other Children. Yeah. And because of that, you didn't know any different. No, absolutely not. You had to learn to succeed. You had to learn to walk to, you know, all these things and you were able to figure it out for you, right? Yeah. They never put me in a bubble. You know, I can't live my hands above my head, you know, at least, you know, full the full, you know, straight up hand, you know, arms.
But, you know, they allowed me to play baseball, they allowed me to play basketball. They allowed me to play football in the street. And you know, they were like, well, if I could get hurt, you get hurt, we'll take him to the top and and they did multiple times. But because of that, because of that choice and I think it's a great, it's a great um, example for the rest of us and for young parents to let our Children figure it out whether they have a disability or not. I think it's those times, those bumps and those bruises, those times that we fall down, that we get and we learn to pick ourselves back up. That gives us the strength within to to face whatever challenges come our way throughout life to overcome, because it's not always that we're going to live in a bubble, whether we have a disability or whether we don't, there will be bumps and bruises and scrapes along the way.
Right, so Dorsey, you talk about in your book, actually, I love the way that the book is structured there, it's it's called overcome, er but right below the word overcome, er are the words discovering God's purpose against all odds. Talk to us about God's purpose in your life, you know, I'm still, you know, I'm still figuring it out, you know? But I think we all are exactly, you know, I think you're perfect in my life, you know, for the heat in in my life, is to, you know, encourage people, is to inspire people, is to, you know, let them know that, you know, that God has, you know, a planning perfect for their life that God has, you know, the guy will bring them through the trial and the difficulties that they have faked in their life.
There were many times when I was younger that, you know, where I felt like giving up, where I felt like, you know, king, okay today, I'm going to end my life, you know, because I was teeth because I was me for now because I would call, you know, different names like monster and freak and you know, I could have given up very eagerly multiple times, but it was, you know, the fact that God could, you know, kept handing me, hey, don't give up, I have something greater into a freer life, keep moving forward. And she went, you know, she what will happen? See what, you know, you want the plan and the puppet is that I have for you. That's remarkable. Someone at an early age can can have that kind of faith recognizing that maybe my life isn't what many people would call normal, but it's, it's in God's hands.
So how, how would you deal with those situations when those kids would be unkind And, and uh, and, and and say things that were mean and cruel. How what was, what was your mechanism of coping with that? I think, you know, I think, you know, talking to my parents, you know, reading the bible, you know, understanding that, you know, that he created me the way, you know, that he, you know, I was created in his image that, you know, As a cousin, you know, I'm going 39 talk about, you know, that we are creating in our mother's room and you know, he was talking to my mom and you know my parents and we're like and that, you know, regardless of what other people have a day, loved me in a day care for me. Yeah, I wish we had your parents here with us today because there's so many questions that we would ask them and I can, I can just sense the love that your parents and as a net mentioned especially probably your mother had for you.
She's helping you along the way through through life and recognizing that your life might be just a little bit different than than many others. I remember growing up there was a family that lived a couple of streets over and their oldest son was born with without his legs stopped above the knee. He didn't have knees or you know, ankles or feet and things. And so he, he got around on crutches and he was pretty quick Dorsey on those crutches, but just like you and how your parents treated you, his parents treated him like any other kid and when he, you know, I saw him fall a couple times and you wanted to rush to help him up and his parents would be there and they waited, they waited to see if he could do it first. And just that example to me of how hard I know how hard it would have been as a parent, as your mother and I'm sure she wanted to rush and to pick you up and help you on those times that you, you know, scraped your knee and you fell down when you were out playing baseball with kids in doing those other things or or when kids called you names, that she would want to rush in and take care of you.
But something inside her told her to wait to just watch to pray for you. I know she was praying and pleading for you in those times so that you could have that and find that strength within because she knew she wouldn't always be, there wasn't gonna be there with you always at school or you know, when the kids, which just makes me sick when they call you names and and they call us, it hurts to be called the name and it hurts to be torn down. But because of that, that strength and that love of your parents, they taught you where to go. You know, Mark asked the question, how did you find that within you, if your parents wouldn't have taught you about prayer, I don't know if you would have known to pray. Right. And so again, it came back to their example, there being a trail angel in your life. How would you take your life's example? You know, experiences your life's experiences and say to your nieces or nephews or other other Children, you know that that are struggling that people make fun of, what would you, what advice would you give them?
I'm going to tell them, you know, don't give up. You know, keep keep moving forward and you know, because you know, obviously took to play and there's no that everything, you know, in the end it may not be okay right now, but in the end everything will be okay. Great advice. And the other thing I keep thinking is your your differences are very, you know, you can look, it's apparent, right? We can see that those those differences are are there. But sometimes we look at others and and people can't see that struggle. They can't see that just they can't see what's going on inside and the pain. And then in some ways I almost think it's harder because we don't we don't have that automatic give him a break, you know, type of a thing.
And but it teaches all of us how we should treat everyone with compassion with mercy with, you know, not be so judgmental, but just to help give that that helping hand to be that cheerleader to help them in their life no matter what is going on or what. You know, if they looked like all is well and I've got this and I living on top of the world whether it looks like I really am struggling. You know, it's been interesting. Dorsey, we've we've known each other for a month or so now and and as we've talked with you, I the the interesting thing is I don't see you as a man with disabilities. I I see you as a very strong man, I wish I was half as good looking as you are. And I I I know that you are making a difference. You know, you you talk about how important it was to have parents that supported you. But I you may not know the extent of what you have done for other people.
But let me just read a couple of comments really quick here from reviews from your book. These are people that may have known you or just have just read the book. But there was one that really, really struck me, it's a Dorsey and my daughter met in elementary school at the Henry Viscardi school. I have never met a more caring man while our family is jewish that has never been a stumbling block for my daughter and Dorsey and both respect the other's religion and beliefs. In fact, Dorsey recently joined our family at synagogue event as a family member, His truly God's gift to the world that can only benefit from his only from his knowledge and achievement. That's that's pretty impressive as I, as I read other as I read other uh stories as well. You know, there's there's a there's there's a something that someone by the name of Jeannie wrote that. It was just incredible and I don't have time to go through the entire thing. But she talks about that, you know that the life matters and that you are a very beautiful person and that she is reminded of struggles by looking at you and looking at your example every day.
She also goes on to say that she used to think that apart syndrome was one of the worst things in the world, but after getting to know you, she now views it as a hidden blessing that says so much about you, Dorsey and the way that you live your life and thank you, I I am just so humbled and grateful to be able to be your friend, think and to have you as a part of trail angels and to be one of our trail angels. So, so Dorothy, I'm going to ask you a question here based on something that that another, another person that comment on your book by the name of Cyrus wrote and it's going to speak specifically to your belief. And he said, when we're looking for examples of what we can accomplish with the help of our heavenly father and his word, we can look at the life of Dorsey ross, tell me about faith and how important faith is in your life and and how you've been able to live your life with faith.
Yeah. You know, if it was really important in my, you know, my wife, I was able to, you know, grew up in the good because of my parents and you know, I you know, became you know in Christina dig of dirt team and I guess, you know, there were times I doubt it, you know God and I doubt it. You know what God had for me in my life. But you know, I always you know, came full circle and still, you know had that faith and had that, you know, believe in God Anu you know in God and good, you know, thankfully, you know, never really you know walked away from God and every really walked away from my faith in God. No I'm not, you know someone who direct, you know get angry. I mean I am come on who gets angry a God at times I'm not human who always happy and we've you know, smiling your time when I'm fluctuating and when I'm okay and I'm like God, why is this happening to me?
Why do you know why did you allow this to happen to me? But then he, you know remind man, he's like, hey, it's because I have something greeting store for your life. You know, it will work out, you know, No, I'm looking for the woman that got the e walk for me. He he had for me and and there are times that you know, no, well you know, we like and don't walk out, I'm like God why didn't work out for you? And he reminds me because I have something better than store for you. That wasn't the one I wanted you to be with? Mhm. So in other words, what you're saying is your normal, that's what I was thinking. You're a mortal man. You know, we all, at times, I think we all have that time where we, we go out on our own wilderness. We have a wilderness that we have to that maybe we do get frustrated and question why life is hard, why we have certain, certain things going on in our life and challenges.
But like you said, it's an opportunity for us to come full circle. It's an opportunity for us to come to know, to know our father and and to learn to trust that he has something better for us. Yeah. And going back, you know, going back to the, you know, your faith question four minutes when I was graduating high school, I had to have a meeting to determine, you know, what I would do after I graduated and I had a, you know, passing and the desire to, you know, speak to the youth into minister to the youth. And I wanted to, you know, go on to ministry and become a, you've had that complaint and in the meeting, my head would have to tickle then again, my mom was at the time and you know, there are people there because not everyone that I went to school with was able to go on to college because of their, you know, like myself learning disability or, you know, their struggles in school and what not and they after like a history teacher, do you think that do it, who will be able to make it in college?
And he said, no, I don't think the dude who will be able to make it in college, I don't think it will have the ability to make it in college. And then, you know, they asked me and I had no idea what I was getting, you know, getting into and then they said, yeah, I think I can make it. And then they asked my mom, he said, well if you if you think he can make it, he will. And you know, the first couple of weeks of communication were difficult for me and I would struggle, I would get sick at night, I was in case I was concerned. And I even had to start with my mom about, you know, what do you think I should do? Do you think I should quit and she can taking a few more weeks and see what will happen? And I was able to find a chaotic equipment group on that on that car on campus. Who the bible study group. Everyone they at at 12 PM and I went to that meeting and from the time I went to that meeting till four years later when I graduated, I got two year Barbara g a community college.
I was, I was no longer stick, It wasn't, it doesn't mean I didn't and you know, I wasn't struggling. I did struggle. Like it took me four years in a two year community college, but I was able to make it okay. But you know, if it wasn't for my faith to believe in myself and to believe in what my mom had, okay, we can make it at that moment when that he could get to me do what you will not make it. I could have killed. Well, we'll look at something. No, for me to do, I won't go on to college, but I did. And then after that, I went on to bible college for another five years. This is just an example that just because it's a two year college doesn't mean that it has to be done in two years. And, and I think everyone that goes to college, they struggle. You know, it takes time, it's new.
It's thinks it's just so again, your mother gave you just, she was wise to give you you have it a couple more weeks. But I don't think it was coincidence that you found this bible study group to help strengthen your faith and and and to believe that you could do something because it doesn't. I think sometimes we get frustrated with ourselves and we think, well we should do this, you know, in this way in this amount of time and if we I can't do it just like it says then I'm going to give up, you know, the example that you've just taught all of us is that no, we create a way that works for us that we can succeed and your trail is different than my trail, but it's okay, you know, it's, it's interesting that we're talking about this because this morning, As I was hiking up this, this hike, I go up every morning is 1200 ft up in 1200 ft down.
And as I was, as I was hiking up someone, someone was going faster than me and I said, well you're, you're, you're so fast, I wish I was half as fast as you are. And the person said to me turned around said, you know, Mark, it doesn't really matter how fast we go just so long as we get there and I thought that is so important and that's a lot like life and it's not just college life is like that. It doesn't matter how fast we go just so long as we get there and don't give up. You know, I think of the scriptures and I think of those ancient profits who, who lived before christ time in the old testament and who were struggling, they didn't know why they were being asked to do this or I'm sure that uh, I'm sure that daniel didn't understand why he had to do what he did and have the uh the repercussions that he had and all of the profits that uh, that had difficulties.
There was one common thing. And that's when they would ask God, why are these things happening to me? God would always answer. They're happening for a wise purpose. And sometimes we don't understand what that wise purposes, Jonah didn't understand why he needed to go talk to the people in Nimba when they were his mortal enemy. But God said it's for a wise purpose. And so as we talk about wise purposes and as we talk about life, what would be some of the advice that you typically give young adults as you're talking with them when it comes to wise purposes and when it comes to following, following in faith don't okay. You know, similarly, I guess similarly to what I said earlier, you know that, you know, it's difficult time. Gene, you know, understand, you know, why we go through what we go through and why we struggle with what we trouble with.
And We could have two, you know, when we're struggling and we're doubting and we're, you know, not fully understanding, you know, the things that we're dealing with, we could have to read the bible and, you know, that's where we get, you know, the white puppies and that when we get the understanding of why for the understanding of what we're going through. I think that's that's exactly true. Um Dorsey, you know, we we talk a lot about trail angels, we talked a lot about those who have helped us in our journeys of life and, and when we, you know, we referred to you as a trail angel as a, as a youth minister and with your book and just just your life itself. You have been a trail angel too many. When you think back upon your life, can you think of specific trail angels that have bit blessed your life?
Yeah. Well I think you know, the two of them, you know that the most important to me of definitely my, my parents, my parents had definitely the the two that have, you know inspired me and you know, been my been my trailing goon definitely helped me, you know the most and I fucking other people with, you know with disabilities and who have, you know, gone on ahead of me and then like men, you know, if they can do it, I can do it as well. Thank you. And I'm not surprised that your parents are your trail angels and I just want you to know that as I, I'm just thinking of of my life and some of the experiences and challenges and I think you know what if Dorsey can do it, I can do it. So thank you Dorsey for being a trail angel for me and I think so many people can say the same thing as well as I'm just scrolling through and reading what people had to say about your book about you, Dorsey, it's just it's just so incredible the amount of people who, who love you because if you're inspiring because of the fact that you're real, your positive and you're motivating all of those things are characteristics of a real winner.
And when I look and when I when I hear the words uh Dorsey ross, I I think of a winner, I I think of someone that has has really been able to not just overcome and not just survive but to thrive. And we talk a lot about that. We talk a lot about not just enduring what we have to go through, but the ones that make all the difference in the world are those that are able to thrive. Talk to us just for a minute about what it means to thrive versus just to survive. I think, you know when you're talking about surviving, visit driving providing, you know would be because like, you know, living out life every day and you know, maybe not having, you know, goal to to live or you know, he even way for, you know, things that you want to accomplish in life where you know, living is, hey, I have the kid a goal that I want to be able to a competent in life, I have the, you know, these things that I wanna be able to accomplish in life before I, you know, a pack on or before I get too old to be able to accomplish those little gold.
You know, you answered that exactly the way that I wanted you to answer that because not once did you talk about disabilities? Not once did you talk about how tough your life has been but yours as a universal message. It doesn't have to be something that we deal with through through a difficulties that were placed upon us, no fault of our own. We all have a journey. We all have to get through the difficult times in life. And it's only when we get through those difficult times that we can look back and recognize just how much we were blessed, just how much God loved us during that time and how much he helped us along the way. And so I you're the perfect example of thriving Dorsey. It's not about just surviving, but it's about thriving and and I I again were so impressed with with your story and what you are able to do with some of the difficulties that you've been placed within your life. So Dorsey, we're probably missing a lot of what you wanted to share with us today.
Is there anything that you would like to close with as we, as we finish our conversation today that you feel would be helpful for our listeners to know? Yeah. Well, you know, they had a you know, after I went to community college I went on to Barbara Collins and you know, again bible color tonight you do for me. And You know, in 2002 in August of 2002 I got a call, you know, phone my sister that my mom and hadn't had it had had had a clock then he was in the hospital and during that same time I have fallen on campus and broken my own. But I think like I had broken my arm until 28 days later when I woke up and my elbow was crawling up to probably twice to cry like that. It was, you know, I thought to be and I want to a friend of mine and I was like, you know what, I don't think that's normal.
We need to go to the heart but go, you know, and then a couple of months later after trying to get ahold of my mom, you know, for a couple hours like I have another called my mom had perfect away and you know, I could have eagerly okay, well, you know, well quit for that connector will quit for the rest of the year. But you know, I knew that my mom wouldn't have wanted me to give up. I knew that my mom would have wanted me to to quit. And even later on in that in that school time, you know, my third, my second or third year, maybe probably third year someone came up to me. He said, well the academy, you're struggling why don't you look at your associate degree and that way if you do don't finish the leaks will have something to fall back on.
So I did, I got my toxic degree, another one from the bible college and I still poking me I took arrived and in 2005 or neighbor too, you know, get my focus and then get my back with degree in youth ministry. And I had a lot of, you know pastors, you know, look over me and okay, no one is interested, no one are interested, no one is interested. And I was finally able to give my story and then I reckon vent and at that time, you know my path, you know, we'll put a pack together, you can send this out to pastors, have you gone speak? And that's what I've been doing for the last obviously the last year and a half I've been very difficult, you know, with the pandemic. I'm hoping to get back on the road that you can point to start doing that the gang, but that's what I've been doing for the left 14 14 years.
Mhm. The incredible story, incredible life. Yes, I can't imagine The impact that you have had over these past 14 years with the youth as they have been present with you as you've shared your story and you know, we'll finish where we began with the with the word that's so important, the name of your book over overcome er which by the way you can, you can do a google search and on overcome er with Dorsey ross's name and you'll be able to purchase his book online and we'll actually have that link right in our show notes. So local by the market by my website as well. The new addition on my website and our autograph for them as well. They would like to buy directly from my website. Great, we'll put that link to your website in our show notes. Dorsey thank you so much.
We were so grateful that you're able to spend some time with us today. We hope to our audience that all of you have enjoyed our conversation with Dorsey ross today as we've discussed the whole idea of overcoming the whole idea of being able to thrive and not just survive, which so many of us are struggling with. It's been a tough time for so many people and it will probably continue to be. And the one word I'm going to add in here that you said Dorsey was to persevere and that will continue to each of us persevere as well. Well, each of us have a story to share. Author Burn A brown reminds us that owning our story is the bravest thing that you will ever do. The stories and experiences that our guests share, inspire us as well as to help us to grow and to connect with others. We invite you to become a part of Cairn the Load community through social media as well as to share the site with those. You know, we are stronger together. Keep Cairn.