my book and my focus now is kind of remote workers because I think there's going to be a lot of people that are taking work occasions now, so if you're not tethered to the geography of your job, you can spend a month or two in a city that you're considering or travel down the United States, just like people just like digital nomads have done um internationally, I think that you're going to have american nomad is them here, where people are just travelling around the US, we know the building wealth comes from owning businesses and making investments. Yet why still do nearly half of businesses fail in the first five years and why do others lose it all in their investments? Welcome to the Wealth Watchers Podcast, your resource for building a massive network. We bring real stories from real people who are experts in business and investing, who will share secrets and actionable strategies to amassing wealth and achieving success brought to you by Happy Camper Capital and now your hosts, Justin Hoggatt and Adam Lendi. Mhm Welcome back to the Wealth Watchers Podcast.
I'm your host, Adam Lendi with my co host, Justin Hoggatt Justin, how are you today? Hey adam doing well today, it's a beautiful day in Iowa were sitting, we had some water issues this morning but it's a good day. So today we talk with Erin this is going to be fun talk, we're actually in an Airbnb It's funny, yeah, that's her business, it revolves around people who are in the Air BNB business now and we are in the process of building one. So Erin thanks for coming on with us. Yeah, of course. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Absolutely and Erin, you're the co owner of Erin and James Real Estate and you're also an author now. Yeah, so I just published a book called American Nomad and I am a real estate agent and co owner of Erin and James Real Estate and we're in Denver and Colorado Springs, but we help a lot of people that want legal. Airbnb investment. Got it. And when you say legal, what does that mean? It just means that a lot of states are a lot of it's actually at the city level, but a lot of cities are changing their laws so it's never a good investment if you're in a city where it's not legal because you know, you have one unhappy neighbor and they could turn you in.
So we make real focus of having those investments around Airbnb just making sure that we're up to date on the laws and that we coach our clients on like this is a good city, this is a city you want to avoid right before we dive in. Love to give you a chance to tell us a little bit about your background, your story. Why did you do what you do? Yeah, my husband and I both had a marketing background and we had traditional 9-5 jobs until 2017. But In 2014 when we were dating, which was sort of early days, Airbnb which feels crazy now because it wasn't that long ago, but when we were dating we weren't ready to live together, but I was tired of paying Rent on both places, so we put mine up my condo up which was a one bedroom in the heart of Denver and I just thought you know if I can just even pull in $400 a month, I'll be happy about that. And so we just immediately started getting $100 bookings within half an hour. Um and so then we did Airbnb arbitrage where we were renting other places and doing that.
And then at some point we just, we ended up buying our own investments to do it and also decided that we should go into real estate and have a focus on Airbnb because we were making so much money, we thought there's probably someone else that would really want that would want these kinds of numbers because it's much better than a long term rental. Um And also again because of the changing laws and stuff, we felt like there was a need for someone that really knew the laws inside and out. And so um everybody knows a real estate agent and it was it was a much easier transition into real estate because we had a specific focus and could provide classes and stuff. And so In spring of 2017 we both put our jobs and we've been full time real estate agent since. So you got started in the Wild West days of the Airbnb world. I mean you talked about the arbitrage, you can't do that anywhere. No, I know it's right, it's kind of wild because nobody, landlords weren't paying attention and ancient ways weren't paying attention. And I even Like, I only kind of had heard of Airbnb because I lived in Denver in 2008 and that's when the Democratic National Convention was.
And so you really saw Airbnb kind of take off during that time or at least locally. People were talking about it more because people have put rentals up on it. And so I knew a lot of people had made a ton of money during that time and I just thought when I was dating my now husband and boyfriend, I was like, well I'm not going to get rid of all my furniture and stuff. And so I just thought maybe this would be a way to do it. But yeah, it was crazy. There was there was very little competition and I mean, some competition, right? But not like now. And uh yeah, just just took off. Yeah, and you know, it's just, you started of course talking about legal Airbnb s and you know, and that's always been a big consideration is that, you know, if you're buying these, you should probably make sure there's an alternate use that. It would make sense as a long term rental. Um, in the event you had a local regulatory change. Um, so, you know, obviously you've been in a sense, I mean really we could call it the inception, but I mean, I know we weren't, you weren't necessarily doing no. Eight, but I mean, it was early on before most people have heard of it. Um, you know, tell us about kind of the changing landscape.
Um, legally. Yeah. So in 2017 Denver, so again, we cover Colorado Springs and Denver and kind of the metro's around it. But I think Denver is a good example because I'm sure this is happening nationally. But in 2017 Denver changed the law where they made it only your primary residence. So it couldn't be in an investment. And if you had done it in the past, you were doing it illegally in the past. So you had to stop that as well. And Denver actually pursues felonies against people that do it and they have a very good science rates. So certain other cities don't necessarily have that. But some do. Um, so when that happened, we then started to look at the landscape of what, you know, cities that we're right next to Denver, how, how their laws were being formed. And so there's kind of a pattern, like a lot of cities don't have a lot. And also nothing is written into the city code about how long you can rent or they have a limitation where you have to rent for 30 days or more or they've adopted something that makes it totally pro Airbnb.
So Denver definitely has cities around it that allow for it. Um, and so that's usually where we tell people to go if they want to do a straight Airbnb or we try and move them into the remote worker furnished rental, 30 day plus if they want to be in Denver or a city that's not friendly to it. And so just thinking about your different options and even people that are in cities where it's legal, sometimes they burn out on it because, well, Airbnb is really good money. It's definitely not free money. It's a lot of work still. So we feel like, you know, for ourselves when that 2017 happened, we switched into a 30 day class furnished rental because it was legal. Um, and then now because the remote workers and what's happening because of Covid and the expansion of the remote worker pool. We're just seeing a ton of demand for that. And back when you first started you had, you were renting a condo, is that what I'm gathering? No, so I owned a condo. You know, did I owned a condo and then we ended up doing rentals on apartments like let's say three others when we were at our max, which was a lot because we also had full time jobs at that time.
Um but it also gave us enough money where we started to acquire, then we acquired a studio, then we acquired a three bedroom like a lot and so we were doing it, but then the laws were changing and we also felt like we were because we were doing education and being quoted a little bit were high profile enough that we felt like we can't, you know, I really need to be by the book and stuff. So just looking at what was legal then and what wasn't okay because that was kind of curious. Uh and maybe, you know if you're renting a place and you decide to move out for example, can you turn your like are a lot of landlords may be doing sublease options for other tenants are doing sublease Airbnb s in the units there in well, I mean it's city to city, right? So like in Denver that would be illegal and you would get caught because they're very good at looking at the license number and singing like is your address tied to that. But also I think at the time we actually did get caught by a landlord and they were not happy.
But also I think that you know, I I think that landlords are their hip to this now, right? Like they know, so they want to cut of that and I think most of them are not that friendly to it. Like there's definitely a certain groups and certain apartment complexes and stuff that are set up specifically for that, but not a lot of them. And if they are then you're paying a heavy amount because they know that you're also making a lot okay And now you're into the 30 day plus, you started at overnights, you kind of $100 a night here and there and the next thing you know, you're making tons of money now you're in 30 day plus. Is that just because of the laws or have you found it because of how easy and how much easier it is than doing nightly. Yeah, I think you know we transitioned into that because a lot, but then even as we started to invest in other cities where it was legal for us to do Airbnb. So we've expanded our investments into Colorado Springs and Colorado Springs.
I won't get into the minutia of the laws down there, but for a while it was legal and we are grandfathered in. So we actually could be doing Airbnb in Colour Springs then you know, and by Airbnb I mean that shortened you know nightly or weekly um stay. But we've actually stayed in the 30 plus day space just because we really like that tenant pool. They pay, they pay an elevated rent and a lot of the time they renew their lease, they usually are high skill workers and high income tenants. And so it's, we've just found it to be really, really easy and you know, you're not in and out cleaning all the time. We self managed that we do the property management on it. Whereas we would never do the property management on an Airbnb anymore just because there's, you know, Airbnb, The short term rentals require a heavy amount of communication and then, you know, you're in there cleaning all the time. So it's pretty labor intensive. Whereas the medium term rentals so that 30 day plus furnished model, they do not require that as much. Yeah, and going forward for the rest of the episode, you know, anytime we say Airbnb, it's like Kleenex, right, we're just referring to any short term rental.
Um, so obviously a good point about the tenant pool being different. So do you find you have fewer issues with those 30 day plus medium term as you call them tenants as opposed to the short term? You know, I didn't, I personally didn't have a lot of issues with the short term rental renters. I felt like they were pretty respectful and took care of the property. I think people sometimes have more concerns about long term renters or at least the investors I've worked with, like everybody gets comfortable and then as the landlord, you're not necessarily checking in on the property and you know, something might have changed on the renters end or the tenants and that you don't know about. And that's where I'm really seeing like some of the investors that I've talked to that have had issues that's kind of where those issues happen. And so with the medium term renter space, you, um, you know, if they're there for three months or six months, they're not, I don't know, I personally just haven't encountered a lot of issues. I feel like they treat the place as well as short term renters do.
And, and typically despite despite the stigma and the attitudes around Airbnb renters or short termers, I have found that those tenants are really respectful and usually turn the place over and it's usually very clean and has not been a big issue for me. Yeah. Um, No, and those are some really interesting points now as it comes to the income the property generates, can you kind of maybe give us a snapshot of one of your properties or even a fictitious property and maybe kind of kind of what somebody could expect is obviously the difference between, you know, high performing Airbnb, um, you know, that that medium term, you know, 30, 30 plus day and then maybe a long term just because obviously that's gonna be important when you're underwriting the property. You want to make sure you're probably considering if it was the worst case scenario not planning on the Airbnb income. So we have a 42 in Colorado Springs, so four bed two bath and we've furnished it. Um and so I think you know, for a long term rental, I would anticipate getting 2300 ish for it.
So if it was not furnished for an Airbnb during the summer, I would expect to get 4000 probably between let's say May to september, then you might see a drop off Um by 10% as you move in and then like once you hit November to March, that's going to be your slow season. And so probably there you're looking at closer to like 3000 to 3500. So right now we're doing the medium term on it for the full year. So we're starting in september it'll go september to May um and it's furnished and we're pulling in 3500 and then our um 3500 month and are mortgage is 2000. And then are our costs usually they are between like 305 100. Obviously the heating bill goes up a lot more in the winter and stuff. So pretty good return on that one. Um And then in Denver so we have like 11 that's a condo and I think that one all in Archives are 1600 a month and we're charging 2200 on it.
Um And and that one so that one right now like a two bedroom long term rental in Denver right now it's $2000 a month, but this is a one bedroom. So it's probably closer, let's say 1500 again if if you could do a short term and done for illegally, I would anticipate that you can get 100 or 250 a night on that property just because it's in the heart of Denver and there's obviously a lot of demand for it and then you know, again you slow down from october to march in these areas but you don't. Denver's probably better for it than somewhere like color springs because number, you still have business crowd coming in stuff whereas cholera springs, it would be more like uh I mean they have business but it's not as business oriented as number. Then again we'll see how this year goes because I don't know that business travel is going to be robust the way it was in the past. You know, everybody might just be on a zoom call now so we'll see how that affects the market. Yeah, interesting point. Um and of course, yeah and as you mentioned the markets make a big difference. I mean it sounds to me like down in the in colorado springs, you know your place is your, your about hitting your monthly average, it sounds like from your Airbnb income on that longer term.
Um you know, whereas Denver it sounds like there might there, there could be more potential income on the short term but you've chosen just to take this route that you really like. These furnished long term mentors. I think in the past we were always like people kind of call it like the traveling nurse model or the corporate rental model. That's how they think of it. But there are definitely other people that are interested in this. So you have people that are maybe thinking about getting divorced but they're not coming to terms with that so they will rent the space as they sort through that issue. We've definitely had a number of people do that. And certainly at the beginning of covid we had quite a few people that put in. They could not, they could not bear the idea of living with their spouses and so they wanted to come and stay. So that is one tenant pool, Another tenant pool are people that are maybe going to move to the area but aren't sure um if they want to live there permanently or they want to check out the neighborhood. So those are people that we pull from. And then obviously my book and my focus now is kind of remote workers because I think there's going to be a lot of people that are taking work occasions now.
So if you're not tethered to the geography of your job, you can spend a month or two in a city that you're considering or travel down the United States. Just like people just like digital nomads have done um internationally. I think that you're going to have american nomad as them here where people are just traveling around the U. S. So all of those are different types of people that would be interested in that medium term space. But Interestingly enough for us last year and this year for that for two, we're actually renting to college students and a lot of our clients are as well. Um people tend to not want to rent to college students, but they're perfect for this model because they don't have furniture, they're graduating out of the dorm and then coming in, their parents cosign on it. So you have, you know, somebody backed up that is maybe a little bit more responsible or financially a little bit more supported. Um and we've just had a lot of left with them. They've been really good, really nice tenants, Good at communication and stuff. So there's a lot of different angles that you can come to with this 30 day plus rental model that people aren't necessarily thinking about it.
What kind of vacancy rates have you experienced? People always ask me that. I think we probably have lower vacancy rates for medium term rentals than you would for a long term. I think like one year, the worst year we had on the 11 in Denver, which is the longest one we've been doing, we had a three week for the entire year. Um and we haven't had anything lower than that. Everything else. Honestly. The biggest problem we've had especially lately is that we are putting in like a two day turnaround period for cleaning and I think cleaners are getting hit right now just like restaurant workers and trades people, they're having a lot of trouble keeping people employed. And so the biggest issue we've had lately is that actually are turnovers so fast and we can't consistently get cleaners in there that are doing a good job. So that's been a bit of a frustration. But previous I would say before you know the last 3 to 4 months that was not the turnover was there, but we also have the cleaner set up.
The cleaning has become a bit of an issue lately but not high anyway that's a long way of saying we do not have a high vacancy rate. The vacancy rate is It's usually 1-2 days before between each day and most of our people coming in are like it's set up for a month and I know quite a few of my clients are getting monthly rentals. We are seeing more like three month rentals and then sometimes they'll tack on like a very much and you're setting all that up in the front end is three months or are you Doing 30 days and it ends up three months. Um they have the option of doing 30 days but it just again the people that we've rented, to its tended to be like three months that we're not actually seeing a lot of people come in and just one a month. it usually tends to be a little bit longer. Okay. And can you touch on eviction and kicking people out if you need to? I haven't helped to do so Again, this is something where I think maybe there's some comfort if you're worried about what's happening with the laws on the federal, I mean biden just pulled that off.
But in colorado we've actually had an extension on the moratorium on evictions. So through august in colorado there's no evictions if the tenant can prove that they're waiting on some federal relief to come in. But again, it has not been an issue for us. And I think there is some thought that maybe people that are doing these medium term rentals, your as the landlord, you're less vulnerable to that because they know they're not planning on staying for year. Also. Um, they tend to be single people are just couples so they don't know, it seems like they're, they're traveling their flexibility of moving in and out is different than a family. Now one thought that comes to mind for me is is there any benefit or any consideration to using maybe a hybrid model where you could have your license to do the Airbnb or short term rental. And so if you had say, you know hotter market or time of year, like you mentioned your place in the springs gets a lot of traffic in the summer and of course using it for students who wouldn't be in presumably might not be there during the summer months that you have them do the medium term during the school year and then you kick it on for a short term in the summer.
Yes, that's a great question. And I think that definitely some people do the hybrid model. What you're describing is actually kind of the inverse of what we see a lot of our clients do because that is right. Like we're doing students and then during the summer there is flexibility where we could do short term and make a lot of money during that time. But usually what we see with our clients is they will do you no short term from made to like May two october and then they'll move it to that medium term because it's a dead zone. You're not done yet, but it's like slower during the winter. And that definitely I would say for ourselves when we are trying to get renters in like I think we're actually gonna try and change it up a little bit this year where we're never trying to get a renter in in november december because that's when we're seeing our longest gaps and vacancy or lowest rents is that's when you have the least amount of demand. And so you're seeing that people will short term for the whole summer spring fall and then moved to that medium term to cover the spread when, when it's a little bit slower.
Yeah. Is there a certain type of property that is best for using this model and what's kind of your sweet spot for that? I don't know. I don't know if I can speak to that. I feel like I used to really strongly feel like condos, one bedrooms are just like smaller houses to ones. And I probably still stuck with that because I think the majority of travelers for both the short term and for the medium term space are going to be singles or couples. And I definitely think now with the way things have gone, people don't want it like they want outdoor space, but they don't necessarily want a huge yard that they have to take care of, especially as an investor. Um, so you just need to think of that stuff. But, but I don't know, I have a lot of clients that have success with larger homes and, and again, you're seeing it with college kids. And we saw this last year where people, you know, it's like if we're not going to be in school, then we're going to go rent a suite house and veil or whatever and just ski with our friends and again, we'll see how this year goes.
But you know, our, our experience has typically been smaller places like, you know condos and one bedrooms. But I don't know, some people are like I said, we have a 42 that's doing well. So I don't know that I would commit to that that I would say go city or geographically attractive. I would not go rural. I mean if you're the only, you're the only rental in a rural space then maybe you do quite well. But I think there's just much larger demand in the cities or somewhere that it's beautiful, which is obvious that people, people ask me that and I guess I could see why that would be a question. What about amenities? Yeah. People are looking for certain things. Yeah. So I think one thing that was super interesting to me because I did a lot of interviews for the book of Tenants that were going around and doing these 30 plus day rentals and a lot of them have animals. So they are definitely serious about their for babies. So if you have a fence or a doggy door and you're open to having animals, I would absolutely advertise that.
I think it's a huge differentiator. Like when I was looking at different areas and limiting the search, you know by putting on filters by being pet friendly or having dedicated workspace, the pet friendly was a bigger issue than dedicated workspace. Um but also I think wifi right now is such a huge issue. So just putting on your wifi speed will give you a huge advantage. Um I think that I personally think having a second screen and a desk and just making sure that people are aware of this, like actually putting it in the headlines like second screen or fully fenced in yard for your dog. Like these things I think people want and then I would also say a parking space. I feel like a lot of People that are that are doing the American nomad is um are traveling around the US and trying these 30 plus day rentals. They may be coming even if you live somewhere where they're street parking and it's not an issue, a lot of them may be coming out of cities where parking is absolutely an issue and it might be hard for them to make the switch even if you're promising to them like it's not a problem, it's not a problem.
Uh Just they may come from an area where it's like uh parking is a mess. So I think if you have a parking space advertise that and if you're, again I talk about this in the book but it's like you already own a property, there's a lot of ways to modify it and make it work, but if you're looking at like a best case ideal property, I would keep it on the smaller end and make sure that you have parking space. And you mentioned of course you put in your heading that you have the remote workspace where you have the fence yard Obviously now you're not using a platform like Airbnb or V. R. B. O. For this. So where do you find these renters? So we actually are. Airbnb has been a good source for us an Airbnb. So when I was writing the book I started it in october and I was finishing it in like june I was on my third round of edits And when I was doing my 3rd round of edits, Airbnb started changing their filters to start to have 28 plus day stays. They also have a page on there called try before you buy and that page is really specifically dedicated toward remote workers and that pool and being somewhere a little bit longer.
So Airbnb is absolutely going after this. There was a very interesting quote by Brian Chesky, the ceo of Air Bubi saying that it took them 12 to 14 years and at that point they had and 14% of their rentals where for 28 days or more and then in the last two years it's now bounced up to 24%. So they had a 10% gain in the last two years. So that's why they're really like paying attention to this and starting to modify their site. So Airbnb you can absolutely find tenants that way. The disadvantage is that they take 3% of that. So we typically source ours out of furnished finders and furnished finders has always been a little bit more targeted to um to nursing and the travel nurse model. Um It will be interesting to see what happens to furnish miners now that Airbnb is going after this space. Um but the advantage to using furnish finders is that it's only $99 for the year. So it's much cheaper than Airbnb And I would say as a platform, they tend to be a little bit less sophisticated so you're not getting pink constantly with the algorithms, you know, it's not crucial that everything's five star reviews.
There's actually not a lot of reviews and your least doesn't go through furnished finders, you do it outside of furnish finder. So I personally like furnish finders more. But I think if Airbnb is maybe going after this business, we'll see, we'll see what that looks like in the future for them and and inside the unit. Now, what kind of furnishing furnishings are the clients expecting and how nice does it really have to be inside? It has to be nice. It has to be as nice as an Airbnb. We actually, you know, we have this 11 in Denver that we've had for a long time and I feel like the furniture is starting to have a little bit of wear and terror and we're hearing it like the 30 day people, I definitely feel like they're even though, you know, I'm like, it's exactly what we photographed and we photographed on a dark day. So it actually should look nicer when you get there in person? It's all sunny, but we have a couch that has a little bit of wear and tear and some of the cabinets, like a little bit of paint is peeling and we're definitely hearing that feedback.
So I think that that place will be getting an upgrade soon and it just makes me think that there are expectations the same as what they would have on a short term rental. They want a nice yeah. Now let's talk about your book. So obviously american nomads finding and renting to remote workers. Um who's your target reader? It's landlords. So while I talk about the book is kind of split into three sections. So one is like looking at who your tenant who would be, the second is how that matters to the landlord. And then the third part of the book is like checklists and interviews with people to kind of help you. But I think really who I'm targeting our Airbnb hosts that are maybe a little bit tired of doing Airbnb or the laws have changed on them. And so they need some kind of change or you know, we also have a ton of clients that will come to us and say, um, you know, I want a vacation home in Denver, but I know I'm only gonna, you know, I want a vacation home in colorado, but I know I'm only going to use it For three weeks of the year.
How can you make that happen? And it's like, well it's illegal in Denver to do what you're talking about. But if you want to move into this model, you know this 30 day plus you can build gaps into it. And so um you know obviously that would cut into your vacancy rate and your return won't be as good, but you that is a way of you know, being on the right side of the law and then also having a vacation rental. So there really is the landlord that we're looking at. But then also I talk about you know who, who would be your rental mom? Yes, and where can we get your book? You can get it on amazon where you can get everything. I'm not very happy about them Flying rockets and I'm like there's better ways to spend that money. But unfortunately amazon is the game that we all have to play, but it's on amazon and it's in Kindle and paperback format and then probably In the next like 3-4 months, the audio will be out. But that takes a little bit longer understood. Are you gonna be narrating your own book?
No, I thought about it, but our podcast guys like don't do it. It'll take too much time and I think too, I don't know like this is the first book I've written, but after you have added it three times and like lived in that material for a long time. I'm ready to move on maybe from that. So I'm happy to have someone else narrator. Is there any tips and tricks in there that you'd like to share that? We haven't already asked good question. Um No, I think just being really straightforward, like I think the checklist help, I think checklists are always smart for any business. Like you think you've got it down and you probably do, but that's where like when my husband and I are aligned on the checklist, I feel like that's when we're definitely having more client communication. It's like where's the wifi password? Where is this or that? So I think if you just have very standard things that you're checking for every time that helps. I think just being really straightforward and the listing and then to me this seems so obvious, but it isn't always for people like just answering questions for people before they even ask, you know, making sure that they have all the information is that that you would think that they would need.
And I think maybe sometimes to get that experience or to think about it, you should go and be a remote worker or whatever an Airbnb person somewhere else and see what was lost or what were you looking for then that will help guide. Also what you feel like people need to know about your wrestle. Yeah, well maybe in a little different space right now we're actually in, like we said at the beginning, we're in the process of building an Airbnb right now. In fact, we're sitting in it as we speak. And you know, it's just, I think the experience we've gained from going and staying in other places and realizing what are the nice little touches they have, you know, what are those little really nice to have those things that are, you know, make the difference when, you know, it saves you a trip to the store, You know, just really saves the day and then the times and you're the one that doesn't have a wine opener. Yeah. And you're now you're the shoe trick. You're the one on the video where you put the wine bottle in the shoe and you're banging on the wall trying to get it open. We've been there Too. I know exactly what you're talking about. You're desperate at six PM trying to end your day and you're happy hour. Um, yeah, no, and actually that was something, it was interesting.
Um, on that point, people that traveled with families were very specific about the fact that a good kitchen, like not having worked pots and pans and having more than four forks and stuff because they're really not looking to go out to eat every night and stuff the way maybe singles or couples want to experience the city, the family is much more like we're going to a different location and we want to experience it as a family, but we have limited funds. So that was something where in the interviews that came up um from multiple people that were traveling with their kids, that kitchen was kitchen items and having a nice kitchen was really important. Yeah, well, erin we appreciate your sharing with us today, but before we let you go, we're going to get into the wild Watchers Brain pick. That's our lightning round. So Justin I'll just take it away. All right. Erin We've got five questions for you 1st 1. What is your superpower or unique natural ability? I'm very organized type A to the max, but hopefully that type a personality too. Yeah. Okay, good. And if you were to go back 3-5 years, what might you have done differently that you wish you could have?
I would have gone into business for myself earlier. So I guess 2017 were about five years out, but I would have done it 10 years out. Like I just no one's going to care about your business the way you're going to care about your business then No, it like if you're passionate and stuff, I just, I don't know like you can take the hit, like do stuff when you're young like you can fail and recover. And I have personally found owning my own business to be the most rewarding things. So I would have done it sooner rather than later. Good inside question to that. What were you doing before I was in marketing? So I was a marketing director, like paid search ads. Okay, Gotcha. And so where you headed the next 3-5 years? Great question. I want to start to invest. I want to at least have one investment in the commercial space. Um, I think it's a natural transition for investors. I think as they, as they graduate, I would also like to at least be able to speak to that piece or see if I like it or if I don't like it and offer that service or eliminate it, but I don't have that experience yet and I think it's important to expand.
Okay, good. And what do you have a favorite book on business or money? Do I have a book that's kind of non traditional, but it's called The Art of Gathering. Um and I think that that is a great book. It talks about how if you're gonna throw meeting, whether on zoom or in person or even a dinner party, how to make those meetings meaningful and how to think about like really what your end goal is uh, with throwing that. And I feel like it has completely helped me refocus how we would do, like, we do a lot of education on Airbnb or first time home buyers are first time home sellers or I have a women's investing club. And so I have definitely changed based off of that book and I feel like the changes have been very positive, awesome and going back, what has been your biggest, ah ha moment? Um, I, okay, I fired my first client ever and I think that that was a big moment because, but you can't fire your client.
Like, you know, it's your first one. You can't fire that person. But I also felt like there is this idea that, you know, you probably have better traction with people that you really respond that respond to you and who you respond to you. And I think you can waste a lot of time and lose a lot of great clients. Um, when you're trying to accommodate someone that maybe is just not a good fit and it doesn't need to be personal. It's just like maybe you guys don't work together that well. So I fired that client and after that have been more like thoughtful about who I take on. I really like that one. Yeah, I haven't, I haven't heard anyone say that. It's a good feeling though. I mean, and again, like you mentioned, it doesn't have to be personable man. It's amazing what it frees you have to do when you're not taxed thinking about that situation. Yeah, I mean they can whether, again, whether it's anyone's fault or not, like it can take up a lot of your time and you know, there are other clients that maybe it's going to be a more natural fit and they are not going to take up as much time and then also like they're going to refer you out.
People that might be also a better fit and stuff. So I think just not feeling like no matter what I got to work with everyone, like not everyone is going to be a good fit. Yeah, well erin, if somebody did want to reach out to you to see if they'd be a good fit to work with the order to ask you more questions, how could they get in touch? You can find us at Aaron and James real estate dot com. Uh, and that's E R I N Um, so Aaron and then the end is spelled out A N D J A M E S real estate dot com. Um, we're also in bigger pockets and obviously we're on all the social networks as well. Perfect. And we'll have your information in the show notes for anyone who's listening and driving right now erin, we're grateful for your time. Thank you for coming on with us today. Thank you so much. I'm flattered. Yeah, I look forward to reading your book. This has been another episode of the wealth watchers podcast. I'm your host, Adam Lindy from my co host Justin Hagan and I have a wonderful day. Thank you for listening. All right guys, thanks for listening until next time. Thank you for listening to wealth Watchers. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave us a review on your podcast player of Choice. If you found value in this episode, please share it with one person, you know who could benefit from these tools and strategies.