what does it mean to live life to the fullest train to your potential and perform at your best, leave nothing on the table. That's a non negotiable is that I I strive to be better every day because if I'm not on top of my game, how is anybody else gonna follow me down the road? Keep demanding more of yourself to live up to that potential and to stay hungry. Training is progress. You know, when I look at the word training, I think of steps, baby steps to get somewhere that you want to be, and that is basically your life journey. It's a mindset in itself, man, it's like, it's not just about I know that for you, a lot of that's about the physical, but we're constantly in training, whether it's growing our skill sets, whether it's growing our physical bodies, whether it's growing our relationships, whatever and all of that is a training ground and that kind of goes back to the mindset that we just talked about, You underestimate yourself and you don't even start, but then once you start, you often surpass what you thought you could do performance your best mate. That's that's sort of what life is all about. You don't have the knowledge and have the fitness, the healthy ambition and drive that no matter what comes along.
When that next phone call comes, I can just say yes, I don't have to worry, just go and do it. Hey guys, just before we get today's episode under way, I just want to mention that this was my first ever in person interview for the podcast, so I was kind of figuring out how to set up my equipment um and how to best manipulate the variables to get the best audio quality. Um so in today's episode, we speak to john Hutchinson who is the head boxing coach at Tiger muay thai and also works with PDR Um and this was a great conversation that we had in a cafe, so you will hear a little bit of background noise, I've done my best to minimize that noise, you can get the most out of the conversation. Um I'm also filming these interviews as well and I had some technical issues, so we had to go back and redo about 20 minutes of that. Um you'll be able to find that video up on my Youtube channel at performance functional training. Let's get this episode underway. Yo, what is up guys, welcome to this episode of the left transform podcast, I'm your host, Sean Cobra and joining me is my man, john Hutchinson, who is the head boxing coach at the world renowned tiger Martine mm a training camp based in Phuket Thailand john boy, how you bro, I'm good, thank you Shawn Good, I've been looking forward to having this conversation with you for a wild man, we've tried to tee this up a couple of times.
One of those times was Wall Street in Miami florida with PTR, whilst he was going through his fight camp for his title defense against Al jemaine sterling. Unfortunately that interview didn't work out and the fight didn't go to plan but that's uh something will dive into later on in today's session. Um First of all, matt, can you give my um listeners a quick and dirty introduction to yourself? Yeah, so I'm a form of a national boxer. Boxing was my background in Ireland moved over to the UK and all around the world boxing and an open Tiger muay thai and soon Sanderson in the coaching a few years later and I'm here since. Well yeah, nice, nice. Those have been listening for a while will know that I also work at Tiger muay thai. So johnny and I have been working together for what, 3, 3.5 years or something now. Um So we both work at Tiger muay thai but we've also worked together with multiple athletes across multiple combat sport organizations right around the world.
So um we're gonna be talking about some of the principles that we've implemented into training camps with fighters and how we've also worked together to complement each other's skills. So we've also trained together, I was training johnny for one of his fights uh and he's been putting me through some through my paces with boxing as well. So Johnna one stab 51 step. Yeah, good to go mate. Um So the first question that I ask anyone that I'm interviewing is to do with Swiss say. So I'm an ambassador for Swiss A which is a proactive mental health program designed by veterans initially for veterans. But this was basically started after one of the founders mates committed suicide and he realized that you know, we need to get these tools out there to veterans that were struggling with the discharge process um and spiraling into pits of depression, anxiety, PTSD um and that app uses the eight pillars of health and wellness to schedule in uh into your day via an app to allow you to be better at life.
Now I've done a full series on the podcast on the Swiss side principles, but they include sleep, nutrition, time management, discipline, personal growth, uh mindfulness and minimalism. Any of those principles stand out for you right now and at different times of your life. Yeah, discipline uh goes along with it, I've learned through every training camp or whatever parts of life even for example, this can open making your bed in the morning, You feel better that day. I actually learned that in the camp one time. Used to get open up, make me bad and then go, hey this is where's this pin? So thank God I'm a big starting to change my life more. Yeah, that's cool man, that's a good answer. That's basically one of the first things they teach you in the army crate, training bro, it's like make your bed because that's what sets you up for the day you achieve, you get that small wind man and one of my favorite quotes is if you can't do the little things right then you can't do the big things right?
Yeah so I love that man, I think that's really important now disciplines obviously a big one for you at the moment um have any of those other principles being more important to at other times of your life. Yeah so rest and recovery, like probably merger earlier stage of my career, I was smashing it like just the average guy to come to you see it all the time sean uh I had no structure, it was just like go go go go burned out or small injuries or something but now I understand that working with the likes of you especially and uh it goes like blocks of phases, I learned how to you know time will work more and I felt a lot better friend, I still kind of carry that too, you know? Yeah yeah that's awesome man um how did you learn to develop your discipline uh through coaching and working well when I was fighting everybody has this, everybody's hungry.
Uh I just wanted to train non stop, just training, it doesn't matter sunday that was training but as I said I never had a structure but then walking as you move on and the more camps working with smart guys and then I would start to say whoa these guys are machines, they can hurry, I'm training as hard, if not harder, uh just sometimes, I think you always said sometimes less is better and smarter ways and then I kind of agree under that Yeah, that's a good point man, you know, when and I was the same bro, like when I was younger, I grew up playing rugby when I joined the army, like I was a high performing sniper in an infantry unit, deployed three times, right? And you know, my mindset back then was more and more and more, you need to hang yourself and if you, you know, I was training three times a day bro, on top of on top of like working a sucking physical job and it was interesting because once I I actually started working with a strength and conditioning, a proper strength conditioning coach, like an elite level strength and conditioning coach, it was working with professional rugby teams, he gave me a program that I started following him, like he literally changed my mindset around training and I went from training three times a day, working a physical job training once a day and undulating my intensity of training, you know, doing a heavy session, then a light session, the next heavy session like session focusing on these different adaptations bro, that next year, like I dominated on the rugby pitch man, like cleaned up at awards, not highest point scorer, highest try scorer, like best and fairest for the entire competition and I was like, alright, there's something to this, and before that I've been training the same way, I was just hammering myself.
So I think um discipline In my mind changes as you learn as you grow as you develop, you know, when you're younger, your discipline is get out of bed at 5:00 AM, go and running fucking cold, rainy, shitty weather, you know? And yes, that is important, and that was definitely important when I was in the army. But as I've grown, as I've learned, as I've picked up these different methods, uh improve my understanding of strength and conditioning, which includes recovery now, it takes me a lot more discipline to not train and not hammer myself then it is to hammer myself, because that's the habit, that's what I've just ingrained for so long in my life. It's funny you say that, like, I remember in Ireland used to get up in the morning and be called back there when the snow and the wonder I used to be like the first footprints in the snow and I think, whoa, you know, not to say it was gonna make me any further getting over that time in the morning.
It's being young, just thinking, yeah, you had to be all well what I had to, what it always give you also was a mental edge, you know, you know, you know, you don't it like in your head, you're going to fight, so you might not benefited from it, but it was like, I've been doing that and give me a mental edge. But as you get older you get smarter, you know, like sometimes your body is feeling it, you know, like if you're younger you just get up and smash it on the way, but then you learn, you grow of it. Yeah, and a lot of pressure for it. Yeah, that's a great point man. You know, I definitely think there's some benefits to I say this all the time on the podcast for like, I definitely think there's some benefits to fucking doing difficult shit when you don't feel like it. Like as you said, build that mental resilience to build that toughness. But there comes a point of diminishing returns where you know, you're doing more and more and more and you just end up wearing your body down, your body starts talking to you now, you're you know, you wake up really tired, you needed to sleep through the day, you need an extra four coffees to get through the day.
You know, your joints start hurting, you go through this all the time, man, like you're holding pads for like some absolute killers bro, some of the big hitting fighters mate, you're holding pads for them, your elbows flare up all the time, right? So like uh when I started seeing you like a big problems on my shoulders and tears on my shoulders, I thought I was going to have to get an operation and then, because to my career didn't do much condition? It was old school, you know, just running at the moment. Yeah. But when I was telling you and you showed me, they introduced me like cattle bells. Like not not for a training program, but like a warm up. Yeah man, uh rehabilitation, rehabilitation. Yeah. So now it's something I carried through all the time now. If I had kept going, where it's going, I don't think I've been coaching today. I wasn't paying my shoulders ripped me, I was going to bed at night time arms on my head and just flaring open because that's another thing we'll talk about.
Like I want to first started coaching, I was like one of the busiest coaches. I was like, I was like 67 people there again, I was teaching them how to punch and I was going to bed and I think uh, when I get smarter I know how to wake up in the morning and go to my cat Bell routine of a cat burglar in the house and uh, if I miss one day ever, I can feel like, oh yeah, I notice it. I can know the same pipe. I notice that I'm not warming up before it, so as quote as a quote to warm up before Mr sessions as well, don't jump and did you know? Yeah, that's cool man. Um, let's talk about how you ended up at Tiger. So you're a pro fighter. Um you're fighting around the world uh when was the first time you came to Thailand? And then what brought you back the second time? So, Um well, first came here when I was 20, I was uh there was four of us were flying to Australia, I took a year out to go to Australia and just to stop Irish.
Yeah, I'm one, I was scared. It was a big group was just done just doing irish pub crawls around. We had say we stopped them baton, you know? Uh it was like bringing this week, I think it was actually four days and then on the Sydney you would be like, give me the bucket. Uh but it was funny, others said that my friends there, I said it in a strange way. I was like, I'm gonna live here someday. I loved it. So, one day when I was a flu bike, certainly love the Selena, but I was always in the midst training, I love training and over there, I was like, it was like a wake up call, I was like, whoa was over working hard and construction and it's hard living over there and I wasn't training as much. I was out with my friends. Uh yeah, I started to miss, yeah, I was just starting to feel a bit groggy, you know, I just missed training. I got playing soccer over there playing every sunday was keeping me fit and but it is most boxing.
So I go, right, I'm going back to Ireland the box and then I'm gonna have a training camp in uh Thailand first we already proven no, it's still amateur them. So I'll go, I'll go. I came over here, this would kind of set me off professional then. So I came over here. I think it came for four months like a three month feeding and I can stand one. Like my plan was three but down four and then that time I was here seen but one week to week I was in a super runway and right away there was no box and they're all looking at me with shoes, you know, you know, Yeah, it was like a real strict might I at that time, you know, even in the mayor and often that picked up here. So what do you use this? So I think it was 2000 and Some of the 2000 can the thing fool Yeah, it was a long time ago. So yeah. So they were like looking at me all the shoes, shoes and the mad, you know, and then and then I was crazy.
It was a great experience. And you know, the title is is like room twice they ever seen this is Michael. I'm just used to run them once. I wouldn't run the afternoon one way too hot like for an Irishman and I like go around, go around, go around and I remember I said the guys on the hot room that I put a bit of water on the teacher and came back and I mean he was up there, go around now like, but uh, I just remembered Anyways, one or 2 weeks how to fight there over here is the next thing, the professional, even though it's not in your record, it's like small goals, the rap big plasters into your hands, like they're like, you ever see where they're at the half showing. Yeah, it's dangerous, like, you know, it's been banned anywhere else. So I had to fight here and I was just putting them to sleep like the first round, I think it was like 30 seconds, I don't know where the guy was from, like, whoa, what identified and bang the famous bangla it and you know, so normally that's just uh, like strict motor.
But there had been a guy over here from Sheffield in the UK training boxing while he has a boxer, but he's here for training camp and they found out that I was here and he is here and the matches up on a big show and the thing is, I don't know who is the main event, but it was big, it was packed and I remember the feeling they can have a good support here, like as well, could you know, what is this community friendly kind of community, All the, all the expats 60, especially the Irishman. Yeah. Uh, so I just never forget that feeling bang, that was all great stadium. And then I went down on a box really good and I stopped him in the second or started around and that was it. Then I went back to Ireland started saying amateur and then we're putting on the head gears and the globes again. Like this ain't me? I don't like this. It was big. I got a taste of some from the leg. Yeah. So then I got a phone call from a guy, do you want to come and stay in England with me? So when they burn them. So they started playing professionally, I was making some of the professionals and baby whether this went from there then.
And that was the taste of professional boxing for me. Yeah, I've traveled the world boxing. I think if I had one more fight or two, I think there's a guy, Peter McDonough, three Time Masters champion. There's one more fight in me, like he's fighting all over the world. He has a record for the most for the irish guards fight everywhere. I need one more favor, but I'm not gonna fight now, you know, So you're retired from boxing now. Yeah, I want it now. Yeah, it's one of the war isn't a phone now. That took me a long time to realize that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's something we'll dive into in a moment before that though I want to ask about. So you held a belt as well, didn't it was a W. B. A. Oceana title? Yeah. WBF when I was younger one a Celtic title as well. Like, you know, you go the irish route and then I fought for the irish state and the I took it like a bit. That was my first loss is the fashionable for Peter Macdonald was three time major champion.
I remember getting a phone call for because there's no real manager now and I was like, we fight Peter McDonough of course. Well everything from jumping from four rounds to 10 round fight. Uh Yeah, the fight was good. Like I learned a lot from that, you know, even though if I was ever looking after a fight, I'll go, whoa, it's not the time, you know how to build a guy. So I lost him points in that and I learned a lot of men may go one to explore the world and good and Maggot, I learned to get better to come back and won that belt. I never got the faith that belt again, but I went down the next bell. The one was in Australia. WBF then a far for the WBC in Sydney, that was my last fight. There was like three years ago and uh suddenly I was remember that the ST patty's day was, Yeah. And that's when I start seeing you after that. Like, I remember you were, you would kind of like, just rolled into tiger and I was fairly new as well.
Yeah, and then we started chatting and I was like, hey man, you know, coming to a training session, then I put you through like, yeah, conditioning session and you're like, oh, that was sick man, You're like, I need to go back to Australia, like this dude, that's why I came back because I remember training, I don't want session, you show him for the belt of one beforehand. And I felt I still got the video that somewhere it was hard. All this is a hard decision. You don't normally, you'd have time to go over stuff, but I was leaving and I was like, you go along with this, this is what I've only got time for. And I remember, I was like, whoa, but I remember, I remember saying to me after that session, you like, funk man, I've never felt Mhm. Like, I felt that in the ring. Yeah, I never felt that outside of the ring and he goes, that's the closest I've felt in training to what it's like. So uh condition really opened from that day on, I opened my eyes to condition like, I know the importance of it. I think something I didn't have, I wish I had had earlier.
Yeah. And you, you grew up with old school. Yeah, very Old. Like lots of road runs, you know, 10 rounds on the bag and yeah, that was it, like a fish wears that running the sword school. There's not there's not much conditional you at all of them wait. So you don't, you know, that's what you've been told because they're big and bulky and as I say, you learn, we have a camp, you learn, you can't be travel and when you come to Thailand it opens your eyes, it's a you've got the best coaches in the world around here. You're like, whoa, this guy has been around the world, he's smart in this area or this guy has got his area where he's smart, I think, whoa, you're, you're learning as a team and uh yeah, it's very good. Yeah. And you're always picking and choosing, taking things from everyone man and applying it to your own training, your own coach, That's it. You know, as coaches, we don't stop growing. We're always learning. Yeah, 100%. Now, what happened in that fight?
The last fight? Yeah. So it was a bit controversial because I was told before I went to go, I was fighting a guy called crab park. Like it represented the olympics on the set and it goes basically it was the home get fighter and he says, this is john you're like a long way from home here. You know, you gotta, you gotta knock him out and of course, no problem. You know, like probably looking at it the wrong read and think known off it. So when I went there was, I went for a camp booked bridges, Burn Hope to Jeff Horn and Dennis Hogan. So at top sparring up there and everything started and uh went to fight, went quite there and I think it was actually the second round of ping them lick and I've dropped them and Do 13 seconds shorter around, but I don't know at the time they ended up yeah, so they're kind of like, save them.
So we didn't know at the time we didn't look at that, but dan, I can't remember, they took a point of me for something so silly and then bits and bits add up, you know what, you can really tell the fight when you're you're feeling comfortable? Yeah, I just felt comfortable. I know you're one of the uh yes. In politics there. Oh the irish was there, I just knew I had it and then when they lifted me, when they called it a draw, everybody bird like, and I was like, whoa, that was a bad feeling. But then I just remember one George give it to me before one Georgia draw and one George and what he was looking at, you know, they give it to him. So that was it at a few things after that then to go back to Ireland and uh that's when my father died the day after so I had to fly back and just but from there I never go back in there but I wanted to fight again. It wasn't say I stopped fighting because a re so do you because on a fight like you can look bits ever, it was 10 room fight as I say I'm a night I was fit guy like but not conditioned, I was like wow I remember for a long period so I just remembered your last session, I was like if I get a good bit of working there I go I'm getting a rematch which he promised me, I said I'm gonna and I didn't like him then from something smart he said after I remember saying you show and I'm gonna put this guy away.
Huh? Those were the johnny wants to remember that man. Yeah I remember you know touching base with you and and and hearing that your old man who passed away you're going back to Ireland like Man Fox, so sorry to hear bro. Um and then you came back into Tiger and you're like all right like I've got some bad blood with this dude, I'm gonna knock him out, I want to work with you. So we started working a couple of times a week, you know focusing on strength and conditioning and focusing on strength endurance, building some stability, working on your mobility, getting your shoulders moving properly, um adding some snap into your punches, your jumps like speed, power, energy system conditioning, etcetera and then I'm not sure what your point of view was but I saw massive improvements in how you're moving but also like your athletic ability improved dramatically. Yeah. And remember the photo one day, maybe you spend the better on my shoulder shot. Yeah, roman out my shoulders. The wind was all jammed open tight and then from the one session was like the whole listen sad to us.
So uh, so for the listeners, um, you know, if you've seen johnny's posture boxer, like most fighters, you know, their shoulders are rolled forward. Um, they've got imbalances muscular dysfunction etcetera. So you know, I noticed this and hey, where what hurts? And I think you were coming back from a a rotator cuff injury because and that fight, I tired it again. A member of the site tear in the shoulder. Yeah, I was always damaging my shoulder. Yeah. So we spent um, probably only like 30 minutes or something just going through some mobility work, soft tissue work, loosen up the shoulder, do some activation work on the back, did some banded distractions, took it before and after photo and it was like a massive difference in your shoulder range of movement and crazy. And I remember the first you build the face man, it's right that's gone. I'm a boxer and you always see me and choose like think the shoes though. I remember when the steps, I said great, let's jump up these steps.
And I thought I was going to hit the toes is and I was going one step this where johnny, once I'm going to, I was like, oh, I didn't have the perm my legs to spring up a and then you go back and think the circuit was the jobs to dead list. You know, we did a, so we did a strength exercise which was either some form of dead lift or a squat. I think we're done split squats with the jump. Yeah, it was contrast training. So we're doing a heavy lift um which was a split squat and then we went into our power based movement, which was a jump jump. Yeah, yeah. And then we went into the upper body work, same saying we're doing heavy movement, then a light fast movement. And uh this is another thing is that we talk about mental edge as well, even though I didn't get that fight, I remember towing the bar, we're throwing the, hit the roof. I couldn't talk to roof. Yeah, I think in the space that I don't know it was three or four weeks because we're chipping away nice and steady, like because it was two or three times. I don't even remember man.
And again, I use, I speak about progressive overload anyone listen to the podcast role, progressive overload. We didn't do all of those things together, it's like teach you how to do this. then I'll teach you how to do this, then I'll teach you how to do this and I'll teach you how to do this. Then we combine these two lower body exercise, then we combine these two upper body exercise, then you know, so and then over the course of a month then we're like running that like circuit style and it worked out perfect because then you're doing like, you know, some strength based lower body movement, then some power based lower body move, strength based upper body movement, strength based uh power based upper body movement and that was taking us and then some core based work and that was taken three minutes. You're training for a fucking 10 round fight, three minute rounds, right? So our training was like specific and remember you're saying like man, I'm gonna knock this motherfucker so good. Yeah, I said man, I felt like I wanted that face so bad. It never happened again. This, I don't know what happened in materials, but I wish it had it was the best ever felt because my whole career, I haven't done that.
And then from the space of three weeks from going from one step to three steps or down from hitting the roof with a ball and dad left in and feeling solid, I think I'm going to put it on this guy, your shoulders as well. Yeah, I remember you trying to teach me a Turkey schedule and I couldn't even put my arm on the ground, the 10, the sharp pain and like from the tear and slowly and slowly that sharp pain gone. It was more stable like when I was lifting a cat bell over my shoulder by shoulder moon, I was shaking all the stability and then just swinging solidly. I always hear these are having breaks and then back there so I felt brilliant. They can still, they think great now my shoulders are better now than was ever fighting and that's because I use them same drills every day. You're doing the maintenance work. Yeah. Yeah, that's an important thing. So from there you transition into coaching like how did that come about that you started working with fighters?
I've always loved coaching sean a had like my own little just like a small gym at the side of the house in Ireland don't fitness classes boxing, I've always loved it, I was coaching over an empty came R. B. I was afraid of there but I was I ended up doing a lot of boxing classes, did a training camp with billy Jason, is that right? Yeah, so I was saying we have to care and I was best in my band, Billy joe all them fighters who was coming constantly and going so you know, it was like an old tiger white tiger but the strict box in there. So it was a great camp and I end up coaching there as well. So I really got a feel for coaching there, I always love coaching and then I came to tiger sam boston was here and SAm introduced me in the tiger and me and him clicked and I started helping Simon, I went from there and I was still a fighter at the time and I remember guys calm, hey coach a coach and I felt weird, you know, like I'm not good yet, you know, I was like, I'm still a fighter, I was starting to work with a few guys and I just got crazy like Shawn and then I was like, whoa like this and I was seeing people improving, I was loving it, I'm such a good feeling man is like when people are putting the time, energy and effort in a consistent and then you see the difference from like, you know, week one to week three to the X man, it's really cool, it's really rewarding him, I was going home and I was like, whoa, I was watching videos on Youtube and I wanted to make them better, but I always have my own structure from all the guys are trained well, from what I like that, but as I say as a coach, you always want to be better and you knew what worked for them or I love that there's something I really got passionate about coming into fighting again, I was getting a phone call to go in the camp, That saying, And then remember guys, I was going away to sell at the fight again.
Remember guys going, hey, will you be here to send me here and I'm going away to come. So I had to kind of pick and choose. I was getting mixed up. I got offered a job in the tiger. Mm I think Yeah, she went to the station and I was like, Um and we think down. Remember that because you had a sponsor there, right? Yeah. How to sponsor it organized? Yeah, 457 big visa. They just paid good money for me getting my setup and I sell the both happened at the same time. I got off the job and Tiger, I'm thinking I'm kind of like a loyal guy didn't want to let this guy down. It meant the world to me. So I'd say flew to say that was gonna turn tiger down. I don't hear that. Yeah, I know the story. So because I was like, oh man, it sucks that you're going back to Australia. Like remember you saying like this guy sorted me out, man, he's looked after me for for a long period of time. Like I'm gonna, I'm a loyal guy. I'm gonna go back and maybe been there for a while. I think they said to me like, oh man, this is not for me, I want to, I lasted about a weekend and I just remember him saying to me, he goes john your friendship to me more than when he goes, go and chase your dream.
Like at least I went back and showed me respect and that's a, that's a good friend man. Yeah, he's risen as martin o'brien. Hell no, that's, that's freaking awesome man. Because you well, like I need to do the right thing by this guy. But then because you did that, he was also like, I need to do the right thing by this guy. So I was like that mutual respect thing man. If you had, have said like if you had called him up and gone, hey, I've got this opportunity at Tiger, I'm gonna turn you down. Like that would have potentially soured the relationship a little bit. I know I'm glad I went, don't, not knowing that they had me going, I'm not just taking this job to be a part time or like I want to like really grow and grow and grow and before covid, you know how busy Tiger was like, and we had a solid team and set up going and we're just starting to really grow as coaches who we wanted to be. It was still had to ban myself from pageant. I started pads with my, you know what I coach and I had a steady little program going home and I started to feel good and I've been calling guys out there said no faith.
And then I was like, this guy wants to get turned over your fate. It was like, I burned myself and punch, You remember that? I counted the pad, They counted the bagger I'm going to fight. Yeah, goes back to the discipline again bro, it's like you had to make that decision, right? Yeah, so I just blocked myself and then I couldn't really get the happy balance, the training that I got into a bit of yoga and I was loving the yoga, doing new york night yoga and tiger and I loved it. And still with a big void for something, you must all your life down the condition of you're chipping away what I say, I kept feeling feeling good and I wanted to fight again. Yeah, yeah, for sure man. So when you made that decision to transition from fighting to coaching and you kind of stop your own training knowing that if you kept training, you want to keep fighting again, I guess you kind of change the tide in the direction that you wanted to move in um was there, or let's talk about peter Yang. So anyone that's listening, most people are gonna know who pity on is, but if they don't um you know, he's been sponsored fighter at Tiger for a long time, man, you know, Tigers put a lot of time, energy and effort into him, all the coaches that he's worked with, you know, he's also spent a lot of time dedicating himself to growing and developing at tiger.
Um he actually, I'd finished coaching in combat conditioning session, 9 30 session and I was walking out the gym was at the front office where the stairs are. And he drove past on his motorbike and he stopped and he looked at me, he goes he just been in the session and he stopped and he looked at me, he goes coach, I want to work with you. And I was like, all right man. I was like, are you working with any other coaches at the moment? Because I work with the other coach but rehab finished finished. I was like, okay, like you tell them that you're gonna work with me, blah blah, I'll go and have a chat to say it now. So I won't have to say that. I was like, hey man, what's going on? And so it's like, oh this dude's just just signed a contract with the UFC is gonna be dabbling in three months time in Singapore. Um you know, well I want to get some work with you and I was like, alright sweet, let's rock and roll. And then I think you started working with him for that camp as well, didn't you? Yeah, I think it was one session, you introduced me when I see that you're all booked, your flights are going to Singapore on your map. Peter before. I just seen him a few times in the restaurant and new often.
But I always hear you talking about peter all the time so it was actually you that like tell me about them and then I just remember him coming up to me just one sash and I think that time was hey quit same thing, my accent that James I know it's still don't know, I remember the first time like when I first started um like interacting with you man, if I spoke to you like every day for a couple of times a week like I understood your accent but if I hadn't spoken to you for like two weeks I was like what the did he just say? I think I'm starting to slow down but no but the start it was a struggle for everyone. Well yeah this went from there similar to you Sean you know we had uh we had a program with work well together you know a couple of fingers will work with you to a couple of guys who had a couple of guys that was going in a circle Yeah uh from there dude I think this is this is such a cool and unique relationship as well because as I said like you were teaching me how to box bro, I'm like a walking robot like you know you were just like picking me to pieces and I was like I want you to coach me man, I want you to like teach me the fundamentals, I want you to teach me the basics, like I wanna learn, I wanna get better, like, I'm an absolute beginner in this, in this field, you know, and then when I was training you, it was the same thing, like it was that mutual respect and the cool thing was like, I could then um change how I was communicating and how I was putting my program together by what you were teaching me, because I was like, all right, as a fighter, we need good center of gravity management, we need good balance, we need to be able to produce high amounts of force, we need to be able to blah blah, you know, so what you were teaching me was then carrying over to what I was then teaching you then bled over into working with other fighters.
Remember before that, before PDR for Jose Aldo for the bantamweight title, man, you know, something that we were speaking about was, you're like, I need to get him sit down on his punches a little bit more and I was like, yeah, I agree man, because he gets, he's getting up a little bit high, you know, he's losing a little bit of power there. So my training was, hey, let's produce high amounts of force for, but let's get you sit down and manage that center of gravity a little bit more and I was doing some like olympic lifting within bro, and I never olympic lift with any of my athletes getting my clients but I've been working with the dude for 3.5 years now and he was at A level to be able to do that and I was like all right, this is what we're gonna do bom bom whereas producing massive amounts of force but also being able to like center himself, balance himself, manage his center of gravity so then you can follow up uh as I say that camp was great, no injuries and often a josie Aldo is as tough as you get back and you could hit him with a truck and they will come peter yan hitting him in the poorer explosive power he had on its side that referee should have been stopped quickly like it took five years of his life, it shouldn't be laughing about that.
It was like I don't know what I was thinking but this camp, this last one of me I made for album and you know I said peter like big big mess not with MR condition there, you know, you know when I would say for all this last fights that's worked well together, it's got that explosive power there, you know you can teach them how to strike and strike but if that power ain't there just it wasn't that snap just wasn't there for me even though it was a great performance taking off in a way it was a great camp having there, I do think a good side program condition would lift him power up for this guy next time. Yeah, it's been cool man obviously working together with him through um or with you for him through like the multiple camps and you know the different opponents that is facing. Um and the different focus. So I heard you on a podcast recently saying that you for the L jermaine fight, you weren't focusing on the boxing anywhere near as much because L remains a ground guy.
So you know, he's gonna grapple, he's gonna take him down, it's gonna grapple. So you know you guys are training at american top Team um Focus more on the grappling side of things, you know, whereas for the elder fight, lots of striking again, lots of boxing man. Same with favor and there's the same thing with my strength and conditioning. First couple of fights. The first I think of training for like five of his eight UFC fights. Yeah. First couple of fights was just like he's a new athlete, I don't know him very well. It's about like understanding how he moves um where his strengths are, where his weaknesses are any imbalances dysfunction, which is building the foundation. We're building strength, speed, power, aerobic capacity, um anaerobic energy system. Um You know all of the skills, balance, coordination, timing, accuracy, center of gravity measurements, it was all about like assessing all that stuff, building a solid foundation and then as we progress through the different fight camps, as he went through, went through the ranks.
All right now he's fighting john Dodson, Alright, this dude's fast. So we need to focus on increasing his speed and power. Right? Then when he fought Jimmie Rivera, it was like, all right, jimmy's grappler, he's going to come at him. He's gonna try and wrestle him. Let's work on his speed and anaerobic system. That explosive snap that power. Then when you fought favor, Alright, let's focus on a little bit more strength. Then when you fought elder. All right, let's focus on, you know, mostly power, a little bit of speed, a little bit of strength, but mostly power production and the anaerobic energy systems so that, you know, he's able to hit those high intensity efforts one after the other. Something I've noticed actually is um you know, people, you would have heard this before. People say peter young gets better as the fight goes on, right? I don't necessarily agree with that. I think john stays the same by his opponents. They don't yeah, they deplete man.
And that's because a lot of the work that I do with him, particularly in recent fights has been like that anaerobic energy system work. Like I'll do some sprint Base works and Power Base works and sucking like highly anaerobic based work, that short, sharp energy system, high intensity max effort, right? Then long rest periods as we get closer to the fight, then improve his endurance, right? So he's able to replenish that energy system over and over and over again to see an elder fight, it was explosive, sat back, let that aerobic system recover the anaerobic system then up again man aren't super fresh, like you know, he's not smiling in the ground, So that's the main thing, repeatedly, you're the one that always tells me like if you see his head dragon or the dragon, you know, you tell me like John it was tired and 10 and knock a bike a bit in this last camp, you know, we had none of that, even though we all know each other know people's body language, but I think condition was a big missing this last camp, it looked great, it learned a lot of praying, done the job and we know what they can do in the next one even better, so that's what makes them more more interesting.
Yeah, it's interesting man, like I feel that unfortunately like the strength and conditioning side is not taken as seriously as like the skills components, obviously, you know, he needs to be a good striker, he needs to have good moy tai, he needs to be able to clinch, he needs to be able to wrestle, needs to be able to grapple, you know, um but my job is to improve his strength, speed, power, energy systems, center of gravity, management, balance, coordination, timing, accuracy and what I'm doing is then adding to your session, right? If what I'm teaching him in my session can carry over to your session now he's able to get a lot more out of your training. Likewise, when he goes and trains with George, likewise, when he trains with frank, likewise, when he trains with Alex right, like you know what I'm doing should be complimenting what you guys are doing, not taking away from it. So that's why I'm always like, hey, let's make sure we manage his energy levels and you know, I'm gonna do enough to elicit the response that I want, but not so much that now I'm taking away from his training session with you because if he comes into your training session, he's training with you on like a thursday afternoon.
I've trained him on a thursday morning and I've fucking hammered him too hard and now he can't hold his hands up, he's practicing shitty technique, then I've done too much man and now I'm taking away from your ability to train him how you want. That's my work. And I remember you saying to to me from coaching as well, uh you know johnny bad son. Yeah, and he was like one of the forest, real fighters start walking with tiger. Like old screw johnny bad, you remember johnny, no boxing this tofu in Israel no happening and just totally opposite of what I would normally work way you know, but from like for a full year because he lives here two times a week constantly and uh yeah, concert and uh two days a week and the improvements and they're all calling them body bags, bags, he was dropping guys with body shots, it was chopping them with their hands, you know, as I said, could you imagine you get peter or whatever failure you get for maybe four weeks or the Hedwig's, if you had a guy that says, I'm gonna work on this for not to smash him because he isn't fading for like three or four months time, but you have that solid long camp where I'm standing.
Can you imagine what you could do in that long time, build the foundation and this is this is what I'm doing with the team envisage guys, right? It's like, you know, Claudia man, like she's been, well, I don't know how long she's been talking about since the almost four years that I've been there. I've seen her progress the most in the last eight months that I've been working with her, she's progressed more in the last eight months than she did in the last 3.5 years that I've seen her. I don't understand. And that's because, you know, we're working on the other areas, Most fighters just work with a coach during fight camp. You know, there eight weeks out from a fight all right now it's time to start working with a coach now it's time to get in shape and now it's time to work on my skills. Now it's time to, you know, manage my diet, my weight and blah blah blah. And it's like, man, you know, one thing that I've taken away from team sports, I grew up playing rugby, right? So, and as a soldier, so I need to be in shape all year round, man. Yeah, so I can do my job so I can perform one on the battlefield, but two on the rugby pitch, right? So, I'm using um those models from team sports and team based environments, and I'm simply just implementing that into, you know, into these fighters into their lives, man, so that, you know, we're making sure that they're staying injury free.
We're building a solid foundation of strength, speed, power. Um you know, all of those things that I spoke about earlier, we're building that solid foundation all year round, we're managing their weight, we're probably actually getting them eating more outside of training camp. You know, there they're not training as much, they're, you know, they're living their life, man, they're flexible with what they're doing, they're not spending all day in the gym and they're not dieting all year round, because, you know, then if they do that, which most fighters do, then they get into a fight camp, they sign a contract, they've got fight in eight weeks time. Now they're eating 2000 calories and their training three times a day, where can we go from there? We got nowhere to pull from their 10 kg overweight. They go, I need to train more. I need to fucking s I need to wear a sweatsuit all the time. Like they're just affecting their performance, they're affecting their ability to recover. Like it's just not a smart way of doing it, man. And you know, as you said, the world has progressed. There's better ways to do things. We can use this science, we can have this like all year round period ice training program again, which is what I took from being in the military working rugby teams.
You know, where we've got people in a really good place all year round cycling through these different adaptations. Then once we sign a contract where eight weeks out, sweet. All right now We're eating 3000 calories. We can start pulling calories. We can start adding some training in. You know, we can start adding a little bit more movement. We can we can, you know, we've got more options. We've got more tools available to us. And that's something that I'm trying to bring into Tiger that I think in my opinion, has been missing. Yeah. One on the stand. And as you said about Claudia, I believe she should get fight of the year for Tiger. Like what she's been doing. She's going onto the radar life. It's just slow and steady. She's been walking with you. Walking with all of us guys. Even her boxing with George. She hadn't been fighting has been hard to cover. But look at her now. You know, she now fair play there. She's taking her chances and great to see her more active now one and see how far I can go. Yeah, for sure. She, she messaged me the other day and she told me she's got another fight.
Yeah. She was saying she's got a habit. Yes. She messaged me and was like, coach, can you send me a program? And I was like, look, if you've got coaches over there, I recommend like working with them because you know, they're going to have, um, they're gonna have their own ideas and I don't want to send a program over and then you ask them to put you through my program. I'm like, I don't like that ship because they are not going to understand my reasoning for it. So I'm like, if you've got decent coaches over there just follow the program and she can catch who watched he's been walking and watch like same for like Peter when he was over and I think a tea tea last time like what they like they walked on this condition they did not like it is, look, it's not for me. I don't like it and they didn't do it and he carried to what you were teaching them, you know the best he could. You know. Yeah, that's that's interesting. I hope I haven't ruined him to think that other conditioning coaches a ship because you know Peter is a smart guy, I think he'll know what's good, it's not good, you know, and uh, but as I said, when you're used to a solid program, you don't change something that broke.
You know, he's been used to, we can refine that. So why change something that's not broken? It would have been difficult for him and to be in that environment where normally trains that tiger, he's got his family around him. It's a good lifestyle here, trains hard but then goes to the beach and relaxes, recovers, got his family spending having dinners with, this is, it's crazy. People didn't see that because people think, you know, he needs to tap on the bike, you know, because to leave what you used to go to a new gym, a new environment is not as kids, they're not his wife there. Like Peter stays in a small circle letting guys in the circle, you know what, it's a lot to take in and perform that got away. Don't, he needs a handshake and tapping the back then they, it's hard to do them things. You're on the inside, johnny wants a rematch bro. You may not say it, I'll ask off line. Um we'll start winding up very soon. I know you've got an appointment, I've got an appointment as well.
Um talk to me about some fighters that you've worked with in the last couple of years that you see with massive potential that you're looking forward to working with in the future and seeing where they go, Mohammed McKay of worry fast is uh, one of the special kids that come along and yeah, whatever is about them, the stand out and you can teach them one teen and they would come back the next day and better. They'll go home and started, I remember calling them in one day to the class and it was a bit shady team and I said, hey, everybody, this is Mohammed Mccabe, remember this guy's name is next UFC champion and I wrote down he'll be able to champion and it's not hard to see uh, is coach and England, Dean Garnett doesn't get enough credit. You know, he's took him from grassroots, you know, he's got a gym over in England helping all the young kids and then, you know, maybe Mohammed go into training camp, it learned something from this coach or learned something in Tiger.
It learned something in bahrain his last one, you know, so they might be getting all the credit for it. Whereas coach back there as a great coach this, let them go and do this. Well, coaches don't load that. Yeah, they're like, that is a great point man, A good coach is someone who goes, you know what, I don't know everything. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna guide the process, I'm gonna teach you the foundations, but you need to go and work with this coach for your B. J. J. You need to go and work this coach for your kickboxing. You need to go and work with this coach for blah, blah, blah. Like that's that's brilliant man. That's what I love it. That's a good coaches, like, you want the best for your fighter, so you're going to get them to work with the best that ship coaches, Someone's like, I'm going to control every fun thing about this person's life. Yeah, so, like, a lot of people mention his name because, you know, he'll be in the area is quite contacts and all out for them and it's not hard to tell, but it's going to be, but like what they forget them, like, you know, they don't see where it all started from. What made me think deep enough was because it was the same similar.
Now I'm working with young Norris here in a minute, young kid just needs a chance, you know, like a little bit same for me, you know, I'm hooking them up with BJ guys, huh, can this I'm trying to get a plan, I'm gonna let them flying about the conditioning and yeah, I believe in this kid and I'm gonna build a program, I'm going to let him go around the guys as well. I always want the best room, you know, let's say, Dean Garnett is an amazing job, Mohammed if he rang me up to john we need to walk in this boxing first fight. You know, one of the sound in there and help them there for him. And uh, he's a kid in the future. That's what network, man. You build a quality network and you go, all right, this is what my fighter needs. I'm gonna send him over to this dude. Yeah, yeah, that's that's trust man. That's respect. So he's definitely kid to watch out for for the UFC. He'll be in there this year. I'm excited about him at the minute. No, tigers a bit quiet, sort of, uh, speaking to my back and all.
He's got maybe getting this easy back from, from America. And so it looks like he'd be fighting in august, but it's a, it's hard to speak nerd a minute. What's happening in the tiger here. We might have to go away and camps. I don't know what's happening. I say you'll find out soon about Peter's camp and think so, yeah, I might have had to say it. But yeah, it's pretty, pretty crazy with, you know, obviously we've had the recent outbreak of Covid in podcasts, so we're not in lockdown, but we've definitely got restrictions and it's made it harder for people to be able to come back in, which is affected, you know, fighters that are coming in. Tiger's been closed for a month and supposed to be opening on the 13th. But to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised, it was pushed out to the end of the month again. So yeah, different time and I might say enjoy and this last few, even though the gym's closed that we all want to be at work and be busy, but can I change my focus? Not now from the fighters, the fighters in here as much, but the more beginners in the media that's gone crazy. I'm like three or four people there is keeping me busy. I'm training. I'm love seeing these guys improving their take someone going loco.
Thanks. No, you're happy. And you know what I say, just give me a new focus, super rewarding than Subaru dude, like that's a, that's such a cool thing, is that, you know, when you're working with high level athletes, like they're so ingrained with how they do things, it's very difficult to change and tweak technique. Um you know, so it, and it does seem like you have to put a lot more effort into illicit the results that you want to see that change because they're so ingrained, but then when you're working with beginners and intermediate man, like they don't, they haven't had, you know, 10, 15 years of building pour patterns or you know, less than optimal pattern. So it's like, you know, they can pick things up fairly quickly and they, they learn fairly quickly and you see the improvements dramatically, it's great, it makes you happy, like, and they're happy and there's something about it. It's Super rewarding for you. Super rewarding for them. Yeah, that's really cool man. Um last question mate, I've had you for almost an hour, an hour, apologize like 30, 40 minutes.
Um, so the name of the podcast is live train, perform and that stands for live life to the fullest, trained to your potential and perform at your best. What does that mantra mean to you? Well, we are living lives that for us because you and me, we've followed their dreams like, you know, it's not just been a one way ticket, it's been hard work and so you get guys go, I look, you're living the life over there, but uh for me to wake up every day and teach boxing and being one of the biggest fight gyms in the world, I don't class, that does work for me. I get a happy, I go to bed, happy, I love what I do. So for me, living less than before is doing what I love. Yeah, that's awesome man, I appreciate it. Thanks very much for coming on the podcast, bro, I definitely look forward to working with you in the future. Much love man and there we have a great conversation with john boy, I really enjoyed working with him in the past and I really look forward to working with him in the future as well.
He is a world class coach who's fairly new to the game and is only improving with every single fight camp, every single fighter that he's working with. So I'm really looking forward to building that relationship with him. Uh, and also the fighters that we work alongside to make them better athletes, better strikers, better fighters, better people. Um, if you enjoyed this conversation, please make sure you share it with your friends and family, gives a tag on the social media. Um, any five star ratings and reviews are much appreciated, much love Guys, Peace.