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Interview with Will Foden

by Shaun Kober
August 27th 2020

I met Will in the early months of 2019 whilst we were both attending the Muscle Nerds Foundation Course in Singapore.

Over the last 18 months or so, we have caught up numerous times, and d... More

Time management is key for freedom because otherwise the world, the day runs away with you and you feel unfulfilled if you've blocked off and you know that you've got to get 60 minutes of this done and it takes you 59, you've won. It's definitely every evening, every morning. I'm too tired in the morning in the evening. I know that I can relax reflect and then I can write down those measures that I had the other day and I know how that's going to fuel the rest of my week. Your what is up guys, welcome to today's episode of the live Train perform podcast. I'm your host, Sean Cobra and joining me today is my man Will food and I will get will to give us an update of who he is and where he's at right now. But I met will in 2019 on the muscle Nerds Foundation course and we've caught up a couple of times over the last year and a half or so and I love chatting to the man. Every time we sit down we talk shop, we just throw banter back and forth for like an hour. I love chatting to the dude, he's a wealth of knowledge um Will fatten welcome to the show mate, thank you very much for having me.

But uh for those who haven't heard of me will fold and I live in Singapore from the U. K. Uh played professional rugby and semi for rugby for a few years, started B. J. J. Not quite an M m a fighter, but I liked him a bit of a scrap. I'm a coach in the busy CBD in Singapore for you fear. Um I work with high level ceos as well as some athletes who are competing on non professional stages. Um like coach talked about is we have a bit of a geek when it comes to my fitness and nutrition. I like getting in the weeds and and and figuring out problems as well as sort of giving people a kick up the arms when they need it. So I'm that sort of guy again, thank you very much for having me brother, Love, it's always a pleasure um sitting down, talking shop with you and uh there's been so many times where we've been having these conversations. I'm like, man, we need to record this shit mate. So what I'm going through at the moment is I've been releasing a miniseries on the Swiss eight principles. Now I know you've been following along and you've listened to the introduction episode with Adrian.

Um but the Swiss Eight model is a proactive mental health program delivered via an ab straight to your phone that allows you to dial in and schedule in the most important things of your life now, the Eight principles of Swiss ate our sleep, nutrition, time management discipline, fitness, personal growth, mindfulness and minimalism, which one of those is the most important for you. Will me personally uh mine's discipline. Um I think they're all equally. You could literally go down the rabbit hole with any of them. But discipline, I think is the key that unlocks all of them, because it's linked to all of them and it's related to everything that's in those processes, whether it's discipline, of getting to bed on time, discipline of the food, that's going to nourish you, uh, all the way through to your personal growth and who disciplined enough to actually produce the goods were needed. So that's what will be my Number one of those for sure. Yeah. Nice mate. Um, let me ask you this, how do you instill discipline into your clients? It's more about empowering people with information, I think when you give somebody a decision and they can see the reward and outcome of it, discipline follows suit.

And also when you're talking about sort of building in habits, habits are quite difficult to put into somebody's life, especially you're dealing with general population. I mean, like you relating to you, you've got an elite level m m a fighter, like, yeah, man who all his life is about belt. He doesn't need discipline that you need to stop him. Whereas 99% of people haven't got a family, kids mortgage and they have, they're not fighting for a pinnacle of a career, they're fighting for life. So I think, like it's a very difficult thing if you layer if you layer it too much simplicity, that's where your minimalism comes in. That's a huge one for people is so clogged up with bullshit on our phones every five minutes and wanting to have that, that spike of seeing something new or getting that quick fix. Whereas discipline is hugely important, especially in the era we're in with kids, I think that's hugely something where people are missing. Maybe you make some really good points there. We live in a world where we're constantly distracted. There's always something that trying to take our attention. Um and you brought up some really good points there and um you know, starting small and doing these things consistently over time.

I think that's how discipline is built and you know, a big part of discipline for me is actually um you know, taking away and restricting some of these things that Uh you know, we take for granted. So for example, after this interview, I'm actually heading away for the weekend and I'm going to go to a small island, I'm going to rent a bungalow on the beach. I'm going to turn my phone off for like 24-36 hours and I'm just gonna take a couple of books, man, I'm going to sit on the beach, I'm going to read, I'm going to chill. Um eat good food. I'm gonna take a journal and just sit with my thoughts and um you know, just jot down whatever comes up in my mind and um for me, I love doing that because I get away, I refresh, I recharge and then I get back into normal society and you know, I appreciate having that technology and being able to use my phone. Um Is there anything that you do on the minimalism side of things that help you maintain your discipline and allow you to be better at life? Um I think two things, one from a decision making point of view.

If it's not a yes, it's a no, I very much if I don't need to do it, then I'll put on the back burner that's usually do with other people rather than my process with my clients and stuff. But also a big one I think is hugely important currently during Covid is that like you said, it's very easy to get into the weeds of you sitting on your screen all the time and continually trying to drive yourself to do either more work. So you just flick through ship, get read stuff that's not actually adequately gonna give you a knowledge base or or or help you. Um so II I literally, my go to is I have to read 15 minutes a day and it's reading something like that. It can be at the moment. I'm still getting, I'm being a bit of a geek and getting into heart conditioning and that kind of stuff just because it interests me and that's one side of my game that I want to improve. But I think from a part of the others would say principles that their professional growth, personal growth, sorry, that is the biggest thing that I would have said from my, from me leaving rugby to now would be the biggest dictator in factor of where I am mentally from a fitness perspective rather than just the physical one for short.

Can you talk about your career as a professional player, like what it talked to get to that point now for the people listening, you grew up playing multiple sports and ended up playing rugby professionally and I just dropped an episode yesterday on reflections that spoke about the lessons that sports have taught me throughout my life, that I've implemented, what are the biggest lessons that sports have given you When I was younger, I actually was a tennis player, I was on the road to win wooden When I was 16, I was playing County Tennis Cricket, um and rugby and I got to roll to one with an and playing my first tournament, I turned this turned up and this kid was a tiny little asian kid who looked like the stereotype gauges, glasses didn't really say anything, you look like you're scared and I thought was gonna work when he absolutely destroyed me and I came home and I said to my dad that I just, I don't feel alive playing tennis anymore, so alive playing rugby because I'm very glad of tour and I'm very team orientated, I love that, that sort of team leadership by when I come into it and when you're going through the depths of hell of a pitch man, you can't really describe it until you've been there.

Um so now move to blast our left home um and then I basically started from the bottom, I started in the third team and worked my way up to the first team. How old were you when you left home? 16? Yeah, he left home young to go and chase a dream. I like gee I'm usually from West London and I was falling into the trap of what most young kids in that area were doing was was getting pulled into things that I shouldn't. I was very lucky to have a family that they metaphorically what my I said it literally, but they made sure that I was sporting a huge focus Which massively helped me when I was that age. So yeah, I left at 16. Yeah man, I think that's really great that you or your family noticed that and essentially guided you down that road to take up sports because for young men around the world we have this pent up frustration, we have this aggression and sports for me, particularly contact sports. That's a brilliant way of getting that frustration out and using that channeling that aggression man, can you talk to me about your professional rugby career from there, I basically I played professional academy, so I played for Gloucester academy, I moved down to Extra Chiefs played preseason with them.

I decided to pursue my education again. Uh, so we're back to Gloucester and I paid National one for four years, which is similar to shoot shield if any of you guys from Australia, although I've played for Manly as well later on, but the national one and then I assigned for Doncaster Knights professionally and I literally gave my whole life to, I was working three jobs, hustling mass off and then finally it came good. Um, and I was lucky enough, I played two years there. I was majorly injured in my first year. Um, but my second year I played and then for purely for money, people who know the rugby game, there's not much cash in it. So I had to move to another to hold my own in which I loved. Um, and then sort of my second part of my sporting journey between coaching, getting way more into strength conditioning, becoming a nutritionist, getting really deep into the weeds with with that and then moved to Australia. Were you a naturally talented player or did you have to work hard off the pitch? I was the opposite of talented.

I was aggressive man. I was talented but not, I wasn't, I wasn't naturally gifted, I love my parents from my dad's a footballer from stoke my mom's a sausage from Oxford who was into horses. I haven't got a rugby bone in me, but like it's similar to you is I had to see this, this aggression that I couldn't really understand and a contact sport. It was my home in the mid, in the middle of chaos. It was just the best thing I ever had. It's very different now a fight like you just, you jin jitsu, which obviously is nothing, there is violent, it's hard, but it's known as violent. It's a funny contrast learning emotionally about yourself, if you know what I mean. I suppose you get that all the time when you're with the M. M. A. Fighters and the guys who come to you from camps, who come not, not as a professional fighter, but come to just train at type of multi, you'd have that as well as they want to channel it into something, but, but actually molding them to become better as a very different organism than just go harder or whatever. Um, skill level is definitely different. Yeah, definitely.

Man, that's a great point that you make and I want to bring that back to what you said earlier about training Peter yarn for those listening that don't know, Peter yarns now, the UFC bantamweight champion after defeating Jose Aldo about a month ago. So we've been working together for about 2.5 years and we lose an absolute beast and he works hard and he's one of those guys that I don't have to motivate. He's got the discipline, he's got the mentality my job as a coach is to pull him back. I've got to slow him down at times and make sure he's not happening himself into the ground because that's what he wants to do all the time. So what advice do you give to? Or can you give to people that are trying to improve certain areas of their life, Whether it be trying to improve their fitness, trying to improve their body composition, trying to improve, you know, just eating a little bit better, improving their nutrition, improving their sleep, et cetera. There's going to be a couple of points that are going to make a massive difference. What advice can you give to people?

I would say the number one thing is to find somebody who's been to where you want to get to or knows that have a knowledge base to help you. It's very easy for you to google things, read books and the amount of time that it takes, it's not telling you not to do it, there's a lot quicker way for you to learn how somebody else to be objective on your position because we emotionally well, I mean an example is that I used to be a fat kid, I was a beast. I am not the same kid. I used to be by associate myself with that because that's what I was. So I used to have, I used to have bad negative behaviors towards that when that I'd obviously, I don't because of my profession, but without somebody else coaching me, I, I would only see my positives or negatives rather than being objective. That would be the sort of the main one I would say for someone who wants to learn something for sure. Yes, a little bit of reflection. Yeah, I think like it's difficult because we're all chasing the golden egg and we like we're all, we're all chasing two people could become better in some respect. Doesn't matter where you put it, but there's always going to be something that, you know, deep down that you need to work on or you need help with.

It doesn't mean you shouldn't go and learn it, but it just means that what you can do is stop action ng things quicker. If you have somebody on your team, I'm big with learning, learning from people I learned from yourself man. Like when you came to the muscle notice of course is learning from your who you, this demographic you deal with. I mean I deal with nonprofessional fires, I deal with like kids who are like 20 and I've watched how you use your training in your philosophies and we're very similar. We may have a very different demographic, but I would come to you if I had a kid prepping for for a big fight, I would ask you questions because I know the stuff, but you've been there. It's a very different animal man. I've spoken about this on a recent podcast with another coach and that is all good coaches are going to be saying something similar, but you know, how they portray that information and how they get their information across. You know, we put our own spin on things and I think that's important because that's how our personality comes across as coaches, but ultimately, at the end of the day, like all good coaches are going to be saying the same things and moving in the same direction, the path that we take might be slightly different.

Um now there was something you said there that intrigued me as well. So you spoke about mindset, I'm currently reading the book mindset by Carol Dweck and you and I have spoken numerous times on the different mindsets that we encounter, working with both athletes and general population clients. What are some of the things that you've observed about the different mindsets and the different reactions to the covid pandemic? A massive one, a huge one. I find here not just in the pandemic with them generally is you can see whether there's two types of people, there's someone's got a growth mindset and somebody has someone who's open for suggestion and somebody whose perception is very open or some of these perceptions very closed. Now that comes down to being able to teach someone who's ready to learn and someone who's not um I'm a very, you said firm believer of if you're the biggest fish in the roommate in the wrong room because you're not, you're not gonna know everything, it's impossible. Like if you're the big cat, what's the point on the flip of it?

You have to have a conviction that you, what you're trying to do is the right thing as especially as a coach. Yeah, I think again goes back to what you were saying earlier about personal growth, um having a growth mindset, you know, I think that's super important man. Where are the growing or were dying? Right? We're not moving in one direction, we're moving in another. It's not, we're never still were never staying in one place where either growing or we're dying, we're getting better or getting worse. Um So I want to talk about mindset for a moment because you had a fairly horrific injury um whilst you were a professional rugby player, um you basically got your leg snapped in half by a horse. Can you talk me through what happened there? And I also want to go through the mindset that you're in basically being told that you probably not even ever walk again to then being able to get back onto the rugby pitch and being able to play professionally again. Talk me through that process man because that's pretty incredible.

Yeah, so when I first time for Doncaster um I I had a question property to horse your horse yard with my ex partner, eight weeks into my first professional contract going well body was changing in the driving seat playing well. Um and I came home and I heard a screen now for those who know about horses lunging means having a rope around the horse's head and it goes around in a circle, like a cowboy from and the horses turned on my ex partner and started trampling her. Um and obviously it turns into like an action film, you sort of just go into superhero mode and run straight in, uh ran in and there were the line wrapped around my leg as it turned to try and company, so I'm getting pulled around the school upside down um which was, yeah, it was, it was pretty usually, like I said, it just went to slow motion, I pulled it too, but I basically pulled myself up, had it by the head and it's like, it just literally, I knew it was gonna try and get me and I turned to run and turn around and double barrel kicked me in the side of the knee and my foot came up towards my hip um sideways fuck, yeah.

Which was, you never heard anything like it man, It's like a shotgun and I like I freaked out. I was in tears, I was screaming because not because I'd I got kicked, not saying I'm hard, it will hurt, but it wasn't like the worst thing I ever had in my life. It was it was I thought I'd lost my rugby career because I fought literally tooth and nail and like we discussed before I'm not the most talented dude. I'll stick my face where we would put their feet and I'll fight faster than anybody. Um So basically waddled out not able to walk. And I remember being sat in the hospital basically with a pair of ripped jeans on my legs and I pick my leg up in my foot and my knee went one way And my actual leg stayed in the same place so it's got like 90°. Yeah it was bad bars on laughing gas it was absolutely epic. But then yeah um And then I basically had a consultation with the bigger stuff and in Sheffield and he told me that we're gonna put I've got dead people's ligaments, telegraph tendons in my in my nina. And he said we're going to do them all together because I did my A. C. L. P. C. And M. C.

L. Um And they basically said to that you may get back to recreational sport fish but you shouldn't be playing rugby union. Um And it was then like literally it's like something out of a cartoon but I just went that's not happening, I have to do it, this is not an option. Talk me through that mate. Getting news like that that you could potentially ruin everything that you've worked so hard for to get to that point and then being told that, you know, the dream's over mate, you're done what goes through your head at that point? I was in a, me and my ex partner, I was, I was engaged. We, we've outgrown each other. Um and I would, and after years that we've been fighting to maintain our relationship and the more with the more we invested in it financially, trying to get a house, trying to, trying to, this is a bit of good business. I wasn't checking myself in the mirror and realizing that my gut instinct was right that we've just outgrown each other and it sounds really sort of cliche, but I literally remember getting out and I had my up and I couldn't stand up, I couldn't go to the bathroom.

I've never been on that many drugs in my life, and on my mom's face is looking like what they can and that's what the, how is this going to happen? And I just literally let myself in the mirror said, I've got to do this. Um and don't get me wrong, I had, there was a dark time in my life by a long way. Um I was lucky enough to have a physio called Natasha Bedford who, when I came up to see and see my boss cause they thought at first I rang him and they thought I was joking, I was like, boss, I'm fun. I'm literally, I can't, I can't even walk, like stopping a dick head. I see the training on monday, like no, you won't. She literally, I've never, I've never had faith like it. I'm not religious. Like I'm very just open minded, but and there was faith for myself. I believe I just fully believe that there was not an option. I couldn't give it an option. I'd worked my whole life to do it and have it snatched away from me. Just wasn't just like, just like similar to a patreon is, he's going to win that, but there's gonna win that fight. I'm gonna fucking win it. It was the same thing for me is I'm gonna get on this rugby pitch, I'm gonna wear down the Knights Jersey.

I'm not gonna stop until I do it and I don't care what happens to me, I'm doing it. So is that why you saw that physio in particular? Or was like, how did that physio contribute to that path back? She was actually, she was my Donny physio. And I remember sitting there and I got along like a house on fire and we were very much about, you know, rugby's like, rugby is very simple, it's about getting on the piste, having a laugh talking about whatever birds geese is. What avenue just, it's a social sport, which she like like minded to you is that I love that side of things that I'm also quite deep, quite getting into that. You said, I like understanding people and leading through stuff. And she gave me a book called The Secret, which she said you're going to think it's not a frilly bullshit but just read it. And I was like, I'm not reading this stuff anyway, go home, read it and it just blew my head because it wasn't what was in it, that blew my head. It was how the, how I could apply it. And very I just went, I have to believe it, I don't believe it's never going to happen. I think that's a great point, mate, is, you know, perception is everything.

And you know, if you had not have had that mindset where you're like, I'm going to get back on the pitch and then they had given you the book and said, hey, read this. If you weren't already in that mindset, then you probably wouldn't have taken taken those lessons from that book. But because you'd already basically convince yourself that you're going to, you know, go through that recovery process and get back on the pitch and play professional rugby again, You know, those lessons in the book, you're looking at that through a different lens. So they resonate with you right, literally, it wasn't like people I would say, is that when they're looking at some of it's a load of nonsense. I'm like you're looking at it the wrong way, You're you're looking at it from the glass half empty way, which is like, oh, someone believing in themselves, they can get over a diseases bullshit. We're not, that wasn't the point. The point is that they believe that they could make it, they could, when the time comes, they have to make it rain and that was it. I had no option. Yeah. Ever heard of placebo effect. Yeah, literally it was funny when I did my injury, there was two other boys didn't get kicked by horses, but they had the same a set piece and I'm so done playing on the pitch and those two with five months ahead of me nearly and neither of them came back, both of them gone, wow.

Yeah, yeah. So I had that in the back of my head, but I lost everything like me and my ex partner ended up breaking up. I moved out of my house with nothing, but my dog slept on the floor with like I had seven dogs, I had to only have one. She, she's my baby. You can talk about race, but don't talk about sucking dog, I'll kill him. Um and I went through the darkest times of my life where people are manipulating my leg and I'm getting strapped to a bed because I'm, they have to bend your knee physically to do it. Um and it was, it was just, there was not an option. I had to, I knew that if I got one degree that day That was snowball is similar to, we talked about the habits is I knew that if I did have 145° of knee flexion, I needed to run and know that they said I could play And I was like, I was stuck at 1:10 and they were literally standing on me and I was like, this is not moving and they realized that it was blocked actively put to sleep and they physically Tebow my leg to yeah, which was, which was bad and a fitting blew out and I mean I had four option in and But I was told I'd walk probably in 18 months and then I played my first game in, in being a cup 10 months later actually, captain as well, which he just said, Oh you're gonna capture today.

I was thinking about the fun, you never know what's going on, you can leave me alone. Yeah, that was pretty emotional. But I'm still, I'm still in touch with my knees. Still good. I've retired from rugby for personal reasons just because I had enough, not because of my body, but yeah, that moment was definitely one of the highlights of my life so far. For sure. That's awesome man. What an amazing comeback story. And I think that's important for people listening at home is that the people around you, the environment that you're in and you know, the resources that you have going to as well as your mindset are going to contribute to whether or not you're moving in the right direction or not, whether you're successful or whether it's a failure. Um I've had a couple of mates, a couple of clients that I used to work with many years ago, one was a rugby player that I played with and the other um we kind of hang out and stuff and he'd go motorbike riding and they both injured their knee, very similar injuries at around about the same time within a month of each other. And they both had different physios and I was helping them go through the rehab process and it was interesting for both of them to come in and start our training session.

And I would ask them what their physios were doing with them and what their physios were saying to them, and both, they had different videos and one was saying, you're never going to be the same again, and the other was saying you'll be back on the pitch if you continue working with the strength and conditioning coach, you do the right thing, you'll be back on the pitch in six months. And it was intriguing to me to see the difference in their mindsets. So I think that's super important man, um what was that like for you to go through that recovery process and then get back onto the pitch, like, how did that feel for you? I remember I was about a month after month left of rehab and I was sprinting and I didn't train with any of the boys. I I did my own gym sessions. I I basically, I recommended 100 and 50 lunches a day for about six months because that's what I could do that. So I had to do so one of my legs as she moves totally different. The other because of my injury, I was on crutches for three months. Um, but the actual, I remember getting on the pitch and I think people asking me a lot of it is like, you scared for your knee?

And I funny enough, I wasn't because in my head, I just said, I've made it, if I was to get, if I was to get sucked up, then I don't care, which is not a clever thing. I don't know, I'm not proud of that, but it was a case of you all know yourself when you're playing rugby and you're not going all in, you get injured in my head. I was like about to go balls deep here because if I don't and these dudes are bigger than me, I was only a little, I was a Sausage. I mean 100 and five kg, there was the smallest of them a pack, like if this wasn't a game, this, this wasn't me playing, I played national one for a long time, so I was pretty versed in that league and I loved it, It's good fun and it was good competition, but championships at different levels. So it was a case of I'm here, I've done it back on it, I'm going to be the best I can be. I think that's an important part of the mindset as well man. You've obviously gone through that rehab process and you trusted in the process and I think that's a lesson is that if you trust in the process, those lessons in the journey, obviously it's a goal to get back onto the pitch, but you learn everything along the way and you probably wouldn't have taken, I'm assuming you wouldn't have even taken the pitch if you didn't trust in that process and if you did not fucking believe that your knee was back at a level that would allow you to get back on the pitch and play the way that you wanted to play and contribute to the team.

Absolutely. Remember I had a training session, it was my final contact session before the game and we had one particular player is an enforcer. Like he was 64, he's still playing now Mack Challenger is an absolute psycho. He's like a street fighter. He's a massive first tackle of, of my injury. Well the the cone drill, you go around the cones and you meet in the middle, it's hit me versus him and he literally looked at me like, are you sure? I was like now bucket, come on If I'm not gonna do it now, I'm not gonna do it. Then. I remember we were tackled him and in my heart, I've never literally felt my heart beating in my tongue. It was, yeah, like you said, I think it's like that with a lot of journeys and I'm sure you'll see that when you write a program out, it's not that the program is important, but if it's actually adhered to and believe in him, the results of a two fold compared to the, the scientific this and someone only, does it have faster. It's the same thing. I think that's a brilliant point man. I love that. And that's something that I always come back to with my coaching philosophy is I want buy in, I need my clients to buy in because if they're not buying in, they're just going through the motions and they're not going to get anything out of that.

So they need to understand what they're doing, but they also need to understand why they're doing it. Um, I wanted to transition and go back to talking about mindset again because I think that's um, uh, an important theme that particularly in this day and age that people can take a lot away from. Um, obviously you're in Singapore you guys in lockdown at the moment or on restrictions restriction not, it's not too bad basically. You have to wear masks is limited numbers, the gyms at half capacity, it feels quite normal to be honest, Apart from that you have to wear a mask everywhere. But it's not like lockdown like Melbourne or that. How long were you guys in full lockdown for? 12 weeks? Yeah. So I want to go back to that because I know that you pivoted your business and I know what sort of person you are and I know how you use your time and I know how I use my time and I want to talk about that for a moment because again, you know, there's things that are outside of our control and you see some people that fall the fucking pieces and you see some people that thrive.

Can you talk to me about leading into the pandemic, the lockdown, what you're doing then and then what happened, how you need to change and pivot your business and how you've adapted your business and both your personal and professional life to what's going on now. I mean like everybody in the face and I think the fitness industry perspective, it's given a lot of people in the industry and kick up the asked to realize that they have to be multifaceted. I mean, I've got, I had a few online guys, I have a full client base. I do, I deal with group pt and one on one ceo type pt as well as I deal with quite a lot of varied cases of people, I've got some athletes, but they're more on my personal basis and when the lockdown hit, I think multiple froze because because of the unknown and I was very lucky. Like this is where it comes back to my injuries. That unknown piece. He didn't scare me, which actually you put it in, your perspective is from being in the military is you never know when she's gonna get real, but you know that when it does blinkers on, let's go and it's the same.

I think it's very similar principle. Like when someone told me that it wasn't why me, it was trying me Phuket all you can do is give it a dig. So I flipped my whole business online and learn on the way. I didn't, there was no perfect storm. It had to just do it, which I think is very similar to you. Yeah. Yeah. As you're saying that, I was literally thinking, um I basically did the same thing. I went away for six weeks. Um I went to Japan snowboarding, bali scuba diving back home to Australia, did my yoga course and literally like the day before or two days before I flew back to Thailand. I've been thinking about launching a podcast for maybe nine months to a year and I just walked into a JB Hi Fi one of the electronic shops and was like, hey man, I need a mike, I need some headphones, you know what, just give me, give me whatever I need to start a fucking podcast and um I got back to Thailand man and you know went into lockdown like 10 days later. So luckily for me I had the equipment and my goal was to start learning and I already paid for a podcast course late last year that I hadn't got to, hadn't had the time to and I was like right now is the perfect time to start sucking, putting this out right?

Yeah. I didn't start doing the podcast course and finish the course before I launched. I was like, I'm going to start creating some content. I'm going to start practicing my craft and I'm going to learn along the way both by doing and by doing this going through this course. So um talk to me about the tactics that you use and how you did pivot your um, your business. So firstly it was more, we're all in the same boat from from from a coastal client perspective because we're all of it not frightened the wrong word but the apprehensions about actually what lockdown was gonna look like. and one thing that you said it is part of a key principle of the Swiss eight and of all our coaching theories is move the mobile be healthy. We won't ask people asking to sort of turn into darkness and become the sort of body transformation and asking for the body transformation. I wanted to give someone was in between the sweet because that was like just just what you just said then the world turning away that put it in your in your hand to start this podcast.

That's not, that's not fluke that's you taking it by the sucking scruff of the neck and go and come on, I can do this. And a lot of people sat back and waited and just went up. Why me? Where's the, you can sit there and you can moan and groan about but the world keeps turning you. Is this your perception of what do you actually really, really want to do chief? It's a big thing I think was the difference between people. Um during covid I completed my whole course of bio energetic, so I've had for seven months, I hadn't touched it. I just cranked it every morning because I was like, I'm never gonna do this unless I do it now. Yeah. Actually that whenever I had this much time to be able to dedicate to my personal growth and my study Yeah, absolutely. It's people either look at the world as you know, whatever's going on in their life as a funding opportunity or an obligation. Very true. Is that exactly that man and like people have been screaming, they haven't got enough time to do it in the world, made you have time. So then it put it put it back on you two, whether you had the audacity to take action and makeshift rain when it had to or were you just being that posse who is just going no, but you're just making excuses, I think we live in like a very, very soft environment for that as well as like you put it into training is like exactly what you have to have buying but you've got when you, when the time comes to get after it, you're driving an adaptation is the same with learning, you can't just read one book and think that you know what you're doing, it's exactly a journey in it.

Yeah, I think that's a good point as well. So many people read all these fucking self help and personal development books and things like that man and they read book after book after book after book and they know the knowledge, but guess what the fucking knowledge is nothing without action. It's only that knowledge only becomes wisdom through action, right? Read those books, get that fucking knowledge, but then go out and put those, put those processes in practice, that's when it becomes wisdom. And I think that's something that you and I and you know, a lot of good coaches and people that have um pivoted and grown through the pandemic through the lockdown period is having that mindset of well whatever happened happened like what's within my control, what can I focus on, what can I fucking get out of this, that's going to progress, it's going to move me forward to wherever I want to go, whatever my goals are Absolutely. And I remember you were saying you did a you did a video about you've got enough food, enough money, you've got sunshine and enough books and courses the last 62 year if I had to and that mindset of I'm in a ship, I mean the ship place, but I'm not, I'm not down and out is the difference between somebody growing and like you said that this this podcast has been for God said and for people, because it's been so consistent and every week you've turned out, but it's not like you've done that by mistake, You've done remember talking to you while you're sucking doing everyday.

Like, man, I've got to get out however many episodes before I got a real of them ready to let people have it where instead of, like you said something, you get backlog, that's not a mistake. You've taken action on us. You've learned something action now, you're still learning. Uh Like the guy I worked for the last week, Tim Carson has written a book called the the line and he said, some people will read it and they will not do anything where his first line is if you read chapter one and if you don't do chapter one and stop reading because what's the point? Like you're not make it happen. Um It's literally that I think in the pandemic people, they literally just go into themselves rather than feeling they could actually learn something or find new trade or they suddenly should have realized that life is not as easy as you think it is. Like you do need to keep pushing forward and that's not necessarily financially have you spiritually grown? Is your relationship in a good place? Have you actually sort of your shelter when this does happen? You are going to come out a better person? Those are the gray areas that could take you down so many different rabbit holes. Yeah man, you spoke earlier about people saying I've never had enough time to study or um, dedicate to my relationship or whatever.

All of a sudden you're in lockdown, you've got this fucking time. And you know, if you're not working on those things, you can't use those excuses. I don't have time anymore. Okay, what that says to me is that's not a strong enough why that's not, that's not an underlying value for you. You know, what are your thoughts on that? Absolutely. Like yeah, as you said, if anybody reads like a self help book and you'll hear some arsenic start with wife. You can put that application to anything that you do. And the way the other way I am is, uh, the reason why I tried to, I wanted to play professional rugby and be who I wanna be was to prove a point. We're now at the age where I don't have to prove a point, but I was like, someone's told me that I'm not going to be good enough, I'm going to be good enough. Someone told me I'm not fast enough, I'm gonna learn strength and conditioning so I can get faster. Someone told me that I was fat, so I'm gonna be a nutritionist so I don't think I can never get the body that I want. I've now got a, got a coach who's helped me with psychology. NLP because I want to learn the art of communication and I'm like, you know yourself, you've, you've studied it yourself and how powerful it is for you to understand perception so you can step into somebody's world and then you can help them.

People get so stuck with information that's not viable and that you said, the main thing that happens is they are busy on instagram facebook, fueling their head with ship and learn and and getting involved in someone else's life rather than living it. Like you, they are going going away, having a digital detox. So many people find we find that impossible, even hormonally they're craving it, They crave their phone. I've had people say like look at me weird like what you turn your phone off completely off for 24 to 36 hours and I'm like, yeah, and they go, are you afraid of getting a phone call where you've missed something, your house is burning down or your family members died or something and I'm like, how often have you had one of those phone calls in your life, even if I do get that phone call, what can I do about it right now? Very true. It's so liberating as well because you've literally, that's the most honest way of investing in you is your take hours reading john Bradley's book change maker.

And he says if you're not blocking that time for yourself once a week, which is more lesson, which is more than two hours long, you're not looking after yourself and you can only look after yourself and then others. That's what I've learned in my previous relationship and I'm extremely lucky to have reach. Now. It's because she gets to be the same. You got to sort your ship first because how can you look after everybody else if you're not on top of your game. And that's why the health and fitness industry isn't just focused about six pack, it's actually making you a better human are going to look after. Your tribe are going to look after your spouse. Are you able to insert whatever physical trait it's important. Yeah. There's a couple of things that I want to touch on there. Um, I want to go back and talk about, you spoke about NLP before. So I'm an NLP master practitioner and I never did that course to become a practitioner. I did that too aid in my strengthening edition in coaching my personal training business because I wanted to be able to communicate to people and for me, I've realized over the years that it's not just about writing a training program and giving a fucking nutrition plan any change first needs to start with psychological and behavioral change.

So you're on the other side of the spectrum where you've actually employed in NLP coach, can you just talk to the listeners about how that changed your life and what their process was like. Um people were made here that when you're leaving professional sports, you can, you can drag yourself down. Um I never played the highest of the high, I played championship, I played premiership academies, but that was my dream and then I lost my dream because of finances, not necessarily because of my skill level um at the time and I always had this burning thing that happened where outside of rugby. So I I've got very good, strong personal training business, I love working with people, I'll get to a point of success, whether it was making more money or I knew I could take myself to the next level, make more impact on social media or whatever. I'll stop doing it. I'll start procrastinating, I'll start thinking negative thoughts and that's good enough for me. And I rang a place and they called the coaching room in Sydney, he works with Fiji rugby, the Waratahs um some Ceo in Singapore and I rang him, I rang him, I actually had a talk with the head of performance at Red Bull, do I know?

And he said I've used this guy because I used it for use it for something else and I was like, must be inquisitive. Um and he, I had a Skype call with him and he was like, do you wanna talk about? And I was literally like look at him like, but actually no, no look, I don't know and it's like it never be asking the questions yet script to this ship. And I was like literally like what? And he, I've never had my whole personality have a light shining on it so much not and it was so good, it liberated me from understanding myself, it liberated me from not dwelling on what I used to be and looking forward and seeing the light at the end of the tunnel rather than trying to look behind me and see in the darkness and that sounds very aggressive, but like all I ever cared about was rugby and now I emotionally, I didn't have the same feeling for it. So I was like now what the funk am I gonna do? Um and it really helped me with my business and my work, like exactly what you said is I'm taking it because I've used that with my clients and there's things that you don't see within that hour of training with them that is more important than their training, like we've talked about before about behaviors outside of the gym or like when the guys come to you and they want to do Fucking 10 bloody sessions and and smash the ship out themselves.

But then on the flip of it, they don't understand about nourishment, they don't understand about recovery. They don't understand about their actual getting their steps. It's really important that fat loss rather than sending an assault. Like I NLP has helped me now communicate that. Yeah. I think I think the N. L. P. Stuff is it's probably one of the best courses that that I've done and I've always been um someone who's been really strong on mindset. Um because you know obviously my my background, I came from a poor family and had an abusive step, don't know. My father left school left home early, joined the military, served overseas blah blah blah blah. But mindset it's always been a big one for me and um you know our attitude, how we approach each day, the attitude that we choose to take because you can be a fucking victim and play on that string and point the finger of blame at everything else that's put you in this situation or you can step up change your mindset and change your attitude and instead of focusing on what's happening to you, you can focus on what's within your control and identify and this is the big thing with NLP it's about being self aware and it's about introspection and it's about looking at where you're at right now, looking at the actions and behaviors and even, you know, the self talk that have led you to this point and then going, right, this is either serving me or it's sabotaging me and then changing your mindset and going, well, I'm going to stop doing those sabotaging acts, behaviors, thoughts, et cetera.

And I'm going to start doing more of the things that allow me to grow, allow me to move in the right direction and allow me to become a better person agreed, totally agreement. All right, next question brother, let's talk about some people that have had a massive impact on your mindset, your attitude. Have you ever ever had any outstanding leaders or mentors, people in your life that have shaped the person you are today? I mean, I'm sure you get this all the time, but I've been very heavily influenced by my parents. My dad is from nothing, moved to London with 50 quid. My dad's not a rugby player, he's an advertiser and a footballer, but he's a skinny, we'd but he's he's a savage and he made it. He literally grew himself from nothing to be in the head of one of the biggest agent agencies in the, in the UK and globally like JWT is big and he always gave me be there and be differently, decisive. That was his mantra to be like, look when sh it's getting real. I remember when my mom, he had just been born and he just lost his, he lost one of his jobs, he went and bought a car, but he couldn't afford and she's like, what the funk you doing?

We've got, we just had a new boy, I've got to go make this money. I don't know, it was like, is that saw jesus and like my mom is going through the toughest ship. My dad like when he lost his job and she had to help out and she's very much so then, but not from family, My rugby coaches from harbour, you were huge influences on my personality and Lewis was a free, he's the head of now whales under 21 or 20, I've never had a coach like that. Get someone in between in between my head and drive. When I first started hardly. They were like, they were an up and coming university and when I was in the union, they were like the heavy hitters of university rugby in the UK and they produced multiple England players, british lions and it was all, I'd say a lot of it's down to him. Um, another guy who massively helped me was a coach called paul Morris who was my county coach and he used to, I'm very much, I'll do everything for everyone and I always use rugby's an example because it was a big part of my life and I still do this now, but I'm gonna work more aware of it is, I get involved in anyone else's ship actually on the picture as well and he was the one coaster dragged me aside and was like, look focus on your own job because your job is in a add to the bigger picture.

I think that's where I learned that was very much how to strategically utilize my, my own behaviors to help the bigger cause not become the, the Centerville. Yeah, I love that man, that's, that's a really good reflection. Um and that's one of the lessons that I spoke about that sports has taught me is that as a part of a team, you are a role player, you are not yet. If you have a good coach, if you have a good mentor that is at the helm, they have an understanding of what they want to achieve and then each one of the players is upon that plays their part and if, and if each player plays their part man, that team is going to be successful. If every player turns up, puts the work in, works hard for each other, but also call each other out and fucking pick people up when they're down and say, hey man, you're not pulling your weight, what's going on? How can we help you out? Like if everyone plays their part, that team is going to be successful and that is culture, man, that is culture, that attitude, that is mindset.

Um that's brilliant mate, any other mentors that you've had in your life that have shaped you as a coach, as a, as an athlete, as a partner, as a person, as a man from a business perspective I actually worked with not very, not too long with mark holes in the UK. Um I was, I, when I came to Singapore my business just literally went out of the roof. Like I, I said yes to everything because I was keen to, I turned up here with nothing. I, I'm pretty well educated from a lot of degree and a master's degree and I've been repeating but a long time I rugby, but this is my first job, fully full balls deep into into PT and I, I never learned this sort of money. I was skin until I came here and I was like, I need someone who's been there before. So I actually hired him for a bit, it was actually since he stopped. I mean him parted ways just because I was on a different, I, I needed way more time to learn. He started a podcast called the mastery podcast and his content as a fitness professional is fucking savage. Like his stuff is the main thing that I learned from, it was like everyone wants to go to a five star hotel, but everybody will remember that if that five star hotel is bad.

He says that about your business, he's like your businesses should be aiming to be a five star hotel, but if he's saying it is and it's not then you're in trouble. So that literally man, like I'm I'm a savage when it comes down to my business because I don't want to let people down, I don't want people to think like I don't give a ship or that I it doesn't matter because it does matter. And that's what I think he had a big influence on my fitness journey for sure. Um and the guys at the muscle nerds, I think they put there in the coffin, but I love being a geek man, a lot of learning the cool ship boss. I meet cool kids like kids like you boss. Like I, I like minded people, man, I like you said me and you can spend three hours talking to ship. Um because we get, it means a lot. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I love that. Made um you spoke about a couple of books there, a couple of resources, I'm gonna have to get on to that podcast. I'm gonna go and check that out. Um but is there any other resources that you can recommend to people at home?

Um maybe a top three book lists that you recommend to people or top three podcasts or audiobooks or anything like that. All your book and book change maker, john Berardi at the moment. I loved, I really enjoyed that, that was wicked. Like I mentioned before, be the line by Tim Castle. If you're a bit lost in your process, you know, you want to do something big, but you're not sure how to layer it and build your life around it. I think that's really good. There's a book called Peak for Mark Bubs If your fitness geek, I love that book, man, that book is so good. I've heard a couple of people say that actually made it so good. It's so good for a P. T. Or even if you're into like the similar realms of shrinking addition into general population, that book is game changer and it's nerdy as wicked. Yeah, I'm one of those people, if a couple of people recommend the same resources, same book of the same podcast or whatever, then I'm like, all right, Especially people that I know and I trust that I'm like, I'm going to get on to this for sure, I'll go and check that out. I mean, Atomic habits is also a really good book for someone who's who's trying to figure out what sort of how to layer habits into their into their daily life.

Another one, Jack Williams book extreme ownership. That was a big one that I was like, that's got that mate. I love it. Just because we're in this puss ified culture of not not taking the blame or not taking the slack and I like the fact it puts it all on you man, this is your house, come on if you want to do it, do it, don't talk about it, I like that sort of attitude. I think we missed that in our culture now is everyone's frightened of making mistakes and doing stuff wrong rather than owning it. My top three books are that extreme ownership is in my top three, but I typically recommend people to start with the subtle art of not giving a fuck. Yeah, that's yeah, that's because people care about way too many things these days, and the book is not about not caring about anything, it's about choosing what you care about, you know, so and invest your time, energy and effort into those things that are progressing you and not worrying about the things that don't really matter, to be honest. Um and then then agreed, second book that I that I recommend is mindset, which I'm reading through for the second time right now, which we kind of, which has basically been the theme for this episode.

Um and then the last one is extreme ownership, and I typically recommend people read through them in that order. Um but that's awesome, mate, let's start rounding out the episode, What does it mean to live Life to the fullest, train to your potential and perform at your best, leave nothing on the table. Probably my is experiences of what more than materialistic things, but from the physical perspective, become the best that you physically can be in all paradigms from a from a performance standpoint, find out what your measures of performance, minds impact as many people as possible to discover and empower them to be as strong and healthy as possible because I I used to be that fact that he was totally never good enough. Um and then performing my best is that's a non negotiable, is that I I strive to be better every day because if I'm not on top of my game, how's anybody else gonna follow me down the road? I love it. Now, I've heard you speak about in a different podcast about how you can track those measurements.

Okay? How can you you've spoken about like we did the muscle notes course together, so that was all about um blood pressure testing, HIV waking heart rate etcetera. Can you touch on that stuff for a moment to round out the episode? How do you use those metrics? So if you could only manage what you can you can only manage what you can measure. So your measurement of success depend it would depend on whether you measure your money when you measure on people, you you thought you'd be that follows you get on from a safer podcasts. But for me personally, from a physical standpoint, I take my blood pressure every morning um and I have started taking a fasting blood glucose because I'm starting to see my HIV drop. So I'm seeing whether my variables are basically, if my body is under stress, that's giving the indicators of how I should train. Um I also, I actually track my food everyday. People think that it's, I'm a nerd and that it's useless if you took five minutes off you being on instagram, I just sat up in a ship, you could, you could get your food and like people are so like I was too long. No, it's not because it means a lot to me.

Um so I measure my food because then I have a vindictive measure of, I mean this many calories and my weight on my body and competition is doing this. I mean this many calories, my blood pressure, my stress, my HIV I wear a whoop as well. Um We tracked my sleep. I tried because I fight for as many hours sleep as possible, man. Like if that's another amazing book from, what's his, what's his name that he was on joe Rogan every day. He uh the books of matt walker, matt walker. That's it. If you, if anybody reads that, you'll never get out of bed. It's very, when I can, because of my job, it's very time. I'm very time poor. But if I can choose between an hour of netflix or an hour of sleep. I choose sleep, not because I'm just being a boring wanker. It's because I know how much it means to me to feel at my best and that's really important for me. So those are the sort of measures that I take. I also, I usually, I use a journal type book every day for my time management and my personal reflection because it's not really, it's time management is key for freedom because otherwise in the world, the day runs away with you and you feel unfulfilled If you've blocked off and you know that you've got to get 60 minutes of this done and it takes you 59.

You've won. Yeah, it's definitely every evening, every morning I'm too tired in the morning in the evening. I know that I can relax, reflect. Um, and then I can write down those measures that I had the other day and I know how that's going to fuel the rest of my week. Yeah. Nice. So those, those numbers that data is kind of um giving you a snapshot of where your, where your body is that, where your autonomic nervous systems, that how much stress you're under, um how well you can operate, how well you can perform, how well you can recover etcetera. Absolutely. And I, me and you, I'm big into strength conditioning. I like that that's picking up heavy tin has been my game since the kids, I want to know that I'm on for that. I'm on to progress. I don't want to go backwards. So I used that day at the track today. My HIV was shocking today. I haven't sleep, slept very well. I supposed to do heavy deadly obsession. I flipped up and I just did they did some speed and a bit of aerobic stuff purely to allow me to them recover and recover faster. Because I don't you want to keep digging in a hole and you where you'll see that that metabolic hole you'll see people get into is it can get deep man and it takes a long time to get back out of it.

It's not front. The further, the deeper you dig that hole, the more it sucks up your hormones, the harder it is to get out of there. And the fact that you get most of the time I'm dealing with guys now who are super stressed ceos of this eating 1100 calories, doing double sessions thinking they're clever and they're growing like a watermelon and you're like mate I got it. And and they then when they actually you have to get some testing done, we actually doing a youth it we do a health screening tests which actually measures your vo two max, but also when you utilize fat and carbohydrate and it just blows people's minds. Make there literally like My heart's at 120 and I go into carbohydrate. When did you last eat carbohydrate six months ago. Carbs are bad and you're like wonder why you're fucking growing like a bloody mutant sorted out. Uh definitely. If you measure it gives you something that you can work off. Yeah. And that data is important. Make that data gives you feedback, mate, awesome man. Like I said, we could sit and discuss, we could talk shop for hours and hours man, but I'm wary of the time and we've got to run um just to wind up the episode where can people find you?

So on instagram at will fold in at will fold in dot com. If you guys don't know what calories you need to be on, there's a calorie calculator, do blogs about varied, varied things that whether it's from athleticism, although through to mindset uh and it's professionally I'm on linkedin as well, a bit on facebook, but not as much. So this is the place to hit me up. Nice mate. I'll have all of those links in the show notes. For those listening at home that want to get in contact with will, if you're not following, go over and follow him. He puts out some good content. Well, phone, thank you very much for being on the podcast mate. We'll definitely catch up again very soon. Thank you very much for having me man jealous of your detox. My brother cheers brother chat soon, cheers, cheers, boys. Set up. The western world is in the middle of a mental health crisis and our veterans have taken action switch sides. Team of combat veterans have built a proactive mental health program that is delivered through a mobile app. The app offers users programs in eight categories of health and lifestyle, all proven to reduce anxiety and depression. This holistic model forms your daily routine, aiding you to build structure, improved discipline and take ownership of your life.

Once these habits are formed, the app will teach you new skills, skills that can form identity purpose and encourage physical interaction to rebuild your tribe and reduce isolation.

Interview with Will Foden
Interview with Will Foden
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